building prisons seems like a natural end result of the Abundance movement

Unsurprising

Abundance book: Ezra Klein fucks around. Abundance conference: Ezra Klein finds out.

Let's hope that is the case. I wouldn't be surprised if he shrugs it off. Very difficult to go back, especially given that the book's sales strategy relies so heavily on tapping into a section of liberals.

Did he go to the barber and as for a "number 88?"

The “Abundance Agenda” is just a bunch of fascists pretending to be capital-d Democrats, aka the most embarrassing people imaginable

Ezra Klein must be proud

Look like a bunch of pedos to me. Serious ick vibes.

I'm so embarrassed for ever being an Ezra Klein fan. I fucking should have known when he was glazing Paul Ryan 15 years ago.

F

The abundance conference seems like an absolutely awful event.

I'm nowhere near DC so this is not something I can do myself, but I can't get this dumb thought out of my head so I'm going to inflict it on others: flash mob dressed as buns, dancing wildly to mock these dorks.

Is that guy like 13

Abundance (oops all right wing developmentalism...again!)

There goes the neighborhood

Any women at the Abundance conference should cover their drinks.

Who are the women on the lineup?

Well there’s this bitch

Never heard of her. Who dis.

And she calls herself a feminist.

LOL she can call herself whatever she wants BUT

I assume in the same way that TERFs call themselves feminists.

I'm sure women are attending

wonder how that besttrousers dickhead is going to spin this lmao

Hitler was against smoking, so obviously smoking must be good. I'm going to blow some people's mind with this: Thomas Hochman is an idiot AND building a government that doesn't put regulatory hurdles around things we need (like transit and housing) is a good idea at the SAME TIME, even

Abundance, Crypto, Amway - anything to scam the fools...

Well, it's just delightful surprise after delightful surprise at the Abundance conference, isn't it?

Why do you hate having an abundance of shit

‪Utah Gov. Spencer Cox — who recently banned fluoride in drinking water — is another speaker at the Abundance conference 👍‬

Ratchet in full effect

Does fluoride cause baldness? Asking for a governor.

He looks like Raymon Reddington and the last Lex Luther had a baby.

Abundance of tooth decay

Should get back to his day job, which I assume is plotting to kill Superman

Well, well, well, what a delightful bunch!

Trump-supporting economist who is anti-union is also at the Abundance conference as a speaker lmao

What is the abundance conference?

conservative democrats get together and share conservative policy ideas

Seminar for dudes who have to beg for pussy

They have an abundance of jizz rags

therevolvingdoorproject.org/who-is-behin...

MAGA Nazis within the Democratic Party.

An attempt to undercut left wing economic policies with bullshit promises to get people to think left wing economic policies are bad.

Did they forget to invite his chin?

Oh, so surprising. What a shocker.

Fuck, I wish these had alt text so I could reskeet them.

God that face deserves a swirly

Well, to be honest, unions are not the *best* way for workers to have *real* power. But I don't think he'd like to see what the best way actually is. I remember the employees of New Fabris in 2009. They made all the preparations to explode their factory if their demands were not met. It worked.

Please do not sully the good name of economists with Or*n C*ss. He's a lawyer larping as an economist who never took a class that required calculus or statistics and is in disagreement with literally every real economist, even the right-wing ones, over his tariff fetish

Oh, it's the fash worker's councils guy! What a joke.

Don't bring economists into this, Cass is a lawyer with no econ training who has never produced any econ scholarship, and words still maybe mean something

Economics is a fake discipline.

That is also what my ec 201 students said after failing the first exam back when I taught back when I was teaching grad school

"Abundance" itself has no meaning to these Abundists.

Forgot that guy existed and thought these were Onion headlines for a sec.

It’s the green border

The Abundance crowd LOVES masked agents kidnapping delivery drivers and snatching children away from their families

Apparently these abundance guys need to be added to the list of people who don't understand that Trump doesn't have a mandate. Getting less than a majority of voters is not a mandate. Reagan had a mandate in '84. Trump has tepid, marginal, and wavering approval, at best.

🎯

He doesn't care about that, he wrote an editorial about how we shouldn't even be allowed to protest the kidnappings in LA.

My God.

Tbh Matty Y. loves "abundant" deportations and prisons too.

Not the point, but Trump doesn’t have a mandate. He barely won. We should ignore any alleged journalist who uses that term.

He didn’t win - Elon & Russia tampered with the voting machines

Also, no president has a mandate to rule in this country. They win, they get to do their job for four years, that's it, they don't get to have carte blanche

Congress also has a mandate to keep a psychopath in check

Dude made buzzword wall spaghetti policy

I’ve been indexing commentaries and just added links to information about a lot of those conference speakers. If anyone in the Group Mind has stuff I missed, let me know and I’ll tuck it in there.

In retrospect of course conservatives would take over the movement by trying to destroy regulation

Should say “Regulation” and “movement”

Wow. I hope there is a hell. (Side note: isn’t generosity the whole point of an abundance philosophy? you believe there’s more than enough for everyone, so no need for greed? So isn’t that opposite of wanting mass deportation? do they think it’s a funny joke?)

The damage that this stupid conference is doing by inviting these absolute ghouls is mind boggling. F this crap

He is a racist scumbag

*Hears the word “abundance”*

🎯

The consistent hair length from his brow to his beard is freaking me out

Short chia.

Numerous members of right-wing think tanks like AEI and the Manhattan Institute at the Abundance Conference too. This is just straight up a right-wing “movement.”

Bro all these people look like fucking ghouls. You can see that there is nothing behind those eyes.

2nded-holy cow, crazy-eyed poster kids for the new Reich

I can actually see the front page of 4chan burned into their retinas

Turns out "the abundance" was of fascism. bsky.app/profile/ther...

I’m sure the Abundance Bros would respond to this with something to the effect of “more housing isn’t a partisan issue” or whatever BS but there’s absolutely zero to be learned from anyone remotely right-wing. No fancy suits or respectable facade can hide that these are monsters and our enemies.

bsky.app/profile/brai...

wow what a surprise that what's ultimately a supply-side economics argument would turn out to be full of right-wingers

And Ezra Klein

Ezra Klein is a smart guy. It is simply the case that we cannot solve our fascism problem without deep systemic reform, including of the constitutional variety. That implies supermajority levels of support, which means a ton of secretly rational Republicans who are “Trump supporting” switch sides

If an Abundance agenda helps accomplish that without having to resort to a civil war, then I am willing to wait until there are clear signs of bad faith before passing judgement. The governor of Utah (and banner of fluoride) is not a sign of bad faith.

Also, just for the record, if there is a civil war it would be very helpful for us to have friendly relations with Utah.

The aren’t going to. There are far more voters out there that don’t feel represented by the system than republicans that won’t vote Republican.

That is very probably true, but it is still necessary to try.

Someone whose main complaint about Trump's deportations is that they're not happening efficiently enough clearly doesn't see the fascism as a problem.

Not sure who you are referencing. If it’s Ezra he clearly does see fascism as a problem. The whole point of protests which follow ICE around is to make the process less efficient. That has worked. Commenting about that is not a sign of support for fascism. The fascists don’t actually care.

The general critique on a lot of Trump stuff is not what he does, it’s the way he does it.

Oh Ezra, look at this mess you’ve made.

😂

Ezra Klein has a lovely speaking voice. I think that’s the only reason he’s taken seriously.

He dropped the most f bombs I’ve ever heard in an interview and the whole audience was grossed out by it

it’s just npr voice after huffing billionaire farts

I also think he read the book before he interviews an author. I always liked that about his interviews.

*including Ezra Klein

"A guy I don't like will speak at a conference organized by another guy I don't like, therefore we shouldn't criticize the way America has fucked over every infrastructure project of the last 2 generations"

The fact that the Pacific Legal Foundation is a significant sponsor is a HUGE red flag.

AEI and the Manhattan Institute are fascist propaganda outfits.

They suck, I have no interest in working with such people, and many of them belong in prison. But to borrow a turn of phrase from Cato the Elder, furthermore, I am of the opinion that more housing must be built.

I am so angry about this shit. They’re trying to take over a movement that was started by a bunch of queers and weirdos. We really do need more housing supply. We don’t need more chuds.

Abundance was not started by "Queers and weirdos." What are you talking about?

no but YIMBY was, like a decade ago, and they're trying to co-opt it

and now there's a bunch of people coming along who go "hey, zoning reform, never heard of that, it's sure being pushed by a bunch of chuds, guess i don't like it" and arrrrrrrgh

From one queer to another, and I must emphasize this is not an attack, but I think you might be having an overly rose-tinted view on the movement's history.

The Republicans are anti-housing also. Trump says more housing is "destroying the suburbs" Maybe there are some state and local exceptions, the Montana legislature passed some pro-housing bills, but these national MAGA people are anti-housing

lmao “destroying the suburbs” “My world is destroyed because I had to drive 150ft more feet to find a parking spot in the square half mile parking lot attached to the big box store!”

Construction is literally the opposite of destruction I think it's just Trump saying the exact opposite of the truth again

As a fervent “the suburbs are unsustainable environmentally, economically, and culturally” guy I’m all for whatever it takes to destroy them. Fill in those stupid parking lots with apartments!

I once had some at a job-interview advise me to live in *bland suburban region* because “their zoning doesn’t allow multi-family homes, you don’t get those people” and I forever interpret defense of suburbia in that bigoted racist lens. And that bigotry is what Trump defends.

That’s a ridiculous way of viewing the world Good ideas can come from many places

It's completely fair to save yourself from hassle and brain damage by ignoring known sources of bad ideas. I haven't watch a single clip of RFK Jr testifying in the Senate today because I don't gain anything by subjecting myself to that. Same with the Abundance Bro crowd: their pedigree is suspect

RFK Jr is a lunatic He also thinks certain artificial food dyes are harmful and should be phased out He’s wrong about vaccines but he’s probably right about the food dyes.

Trump is the worst president this country has had since the 19th century He also directed the Treasury Department to stop minting the penny Should we start minting pennies again merely because Trump stopped doing it? Of course not.

Republicans are not colleagues with whom to collaborate, they are enemies to be defeated. Anyone who doesn't realize that right now is a liability to us.

That’s a great way to lose elections, which of course requires persuading those not always aligned with you

Show me the common ground with the party of Epstein and ICE. Point it out on a chart. Draw me a fucking map to the Bipartisanship.

Hey has this approach been losing the GOP many elections lately?

GOP (ie Trump/MAGA) has persuaded massive numbers of the Dem base to crossover electorally in last 10 years Look at working class voter trends then vs now if you need proof Dems gotta persuade, that’s the reality

Did they do that by constantly reaching across the aisle and stressing bipartisanship with every breath, or by demonizing the Democratic Party and making themselves a permanent opposition party dedicated to the destruction of the Dems?

We're not worried about winning over conservatives, you fucking simp, we're worrying about mitigating their kill count.

Do you want to build a mass movement to oppose the rising tide of evil in the world or do you want to engage in gatekeeping and feel self righteous about it? Only a mass movement will stop fascism. And I don't see too many people in your holier than though coalition.

the people in this thread *are* the rising tide of evil in the world

AEI has been consistently one of those right of center libertarian leaning groups that mostly oppose Trumpism. Do you want to consider a broad alliance to save democracy?

Are you willing to try and work with people who disagree with you about unions or disagree whether it is wise to deport people in the country illegally but don’t like Trump and his excesses? My personal opinion is that borders should be open and unions are the best friend of the working man.

There's no worthwhile coalitions to build with people who have the same general ideological agenda as Vladimir Putin or Javier Milei. Hope this helps.

Hyperbole does not help.

these people are literally part of the “rising tide of evil” Advocating “deportation abundance” is just fascism

I think you have a very peculiar definition of fascism.

…and I just noticed you’ve got the JD Vance follower label. Yeah I’m not wasting time with you

Bye! Good luck with your organizing and I mean that in a totally non-snarky way. It's good to pay attention to people who disagree with you. You might learn something. I learned the word epistemic humility just the other day from someone I disagreed with. It's my new favorite term.

These people, including Ezra Klein, have two things in common; they have zero understanding of how the modern financial system works, and thus how necessary goods and services are effectively provisioned and allocated in such a system, and they make a living as noise merchants.

Mamdani understands the modern financial system. Supply and demand for shelter is balanced by rent. Supply and demand for housing assets is balanced by house prices. There is no housing shortage - there is a deliberate restriction of affordable public housing to maintain private asset values.

I'm not sure how you can say that a deliberate restriction of affordable housing has *not* resulted in a housing shortage? Or am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say?

Crisis, not "shortage". Financial theory tells us that affordability happens when public ownership reaches critical mass of 20-30% of total housing stock, creating system-wide price dampening effects. Only direct public ownership at scale can break the cycle of housing as wealth extraction.

Ah okay, I can see what you're driving at, even though I disagree that there's not *also* a shortage. Even if we were at 100% publicly owned housing, we still wouldn't have enough housing to go around so there'd be rationing. Massive construction is necessary but not sufficient to fix this.

In NYC that is probably true. Not sure that’s the case in many other places.

Hi, I am referring to the fact that financial theory tells us that when inventory of financial assets rise, the private market will always and everywhere, in aggregate, restrict supply. And that there is nowhere in the US where public or coop housing is large enough a share to dampen that impact.

Mr. Mamdani Goes to Town

Why y’all always so excited to grab onto anything that helps undermine your own side?

did you intend to direct this question to ezra klein and derek thompson

No

what side is that?

Iykyk

I mean, neoliberal fascism is both rightwing and bipartisan in U.S. politics, because it’s the Washington Consensus.

Yes, everyone should just lose on all issues all the time until the Revolution. It's impossible to form narrow issue coalitions that can get positive things done before that hallowed time.

What kind of coalition do you think can be formed with a guy advocating for “deportation abundance” and another promoting “YIMBYs for Alligator Alcatraz” exactly?

A narrow one based on the Venn diagram of actual shared policy preferences.

Guys like Lehman aren’t even Romney Republicans though — they’re open race scientists and fascists and lunatics. Their vision of building more housing almost certainly comes with a massive asterisk of like *no one but white people. You will ALWAYS be corrupted by these people.

Have you ever tried to get anything done in a red state? You don't have to sign on to their whole program to win incremental improvements in coalition with people you disagree with on other issues. I also don't think Lehman thinks what you attribute to him.

I feel like “don’t be a fuckin fascist” isn’t that narrow of an issue. That’s actually incredibly broad but would bar people that advocate shit like “deportation abundance”

*taps the “don’t form coalitions with nazis” sign*

*taps the don't define Nazism down sign*

One of the chuds linked above is defending trump’s extradition agenda and concentration camps. Stop “no true Scotsman”ing fascist shitheads.

James Pethokoukis is great

Bowel movement.

Ghouls working day and night to satisfy Trump/Putin. newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/portugu...

“Deportation Abundance” - sick fucks.

What a fucking kapo.

Evil people

It's very hard to make sense of this, but I am going to assume that you are upset because someone you don't like is associated with someone else you don't like here.

So many Nazis.. if nothing else, Trump has unmasked the deeply American darkness that needs to be destroyed.. again

Do you have a partner?

Psychopathic dork abundance

what the hell is a deportation abundance

I hope this man develops a painful and incurable form of jock itch.

They’re working day and night to satisfy Putin—-that simple. newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/portugu...

Just a gathering of goons that look like they throw way too much cash at daytime strippers.

Throw them in the Hell that’s underneath Hell

“Deportation abundance” 🤮

Someone from Salinas, CA was telling me that there is a terrible shortage of pickers because of deportations and fear of deportations. Replacement workers are much slower. Fields normally full of crops are fallow. Food shortages and skyrocketing prices are coming. There's your fucking "abundance."

An abundance of stupidity. Really, guys, we already had plenty without your contribution.

He helpfully looks thick

If he says "bloody revolution" then I'll agree with him

I know this is trite but, I legit thought this was an Onion article.

bsky.app/profile/lion...

area man

I wish it was obvious to the rest of media that isn’t fascist that the Abundance™ neoliberals are actually fascists.

Wow. This guy’s recent op-Ed was one of the more unhinged things I’ve read in the Times recently. honestly didn’t realize Abundance was quite this full of shit.

Fluoride wow. That's really terrible. How can stand to even put the picture of someone who opposes flouride on BlueSky? I think you should be cancelled for posting his photo. That's nazi adjacent fascism.

Why does his official portrait look AI generated

Oh ffs! 🤦🏼‍♀️ are Repuglicans so afraid that progress will leave them behind that they keep trying to push the world backwards?!

Abundance people would have been bush republicans

They wanted desperately to be Romney Republicans and haven't forgiven America for not letting them.

oh this guy is 5000% on grindr at conventions, not even a question

Ah yes growing alfalfa in a state where doing so presents an existential threat to the capitol/largest metro area. I’m sure he’s got wonderful insights about not giving a fuck.

Wow someone really could use some ball tanning.

Abundance of Bullshit

love that abundance means that there will be enough room to lock up all these ghouls including Ezra, yk, if convicted etc

He has the look of a smug Nazi eugenicist.

I... what? I know I haven't paid close attention to the whole abundance thing, but these do not seem like Ezra Klein/Derek Thompson types. Are there *two* abundances? What is happening here.

One school is John Brunner, the other is Daffy Duck.

Would have to ask them! One of their keynote speakers is Spencer Cox, who just banned fluorite in Utah!

To clarify, this doesn’t seem to be *hosted* by Klein and Thompson but they are keynote speakers!

There's only one "Abundance" and you're looking at it.

You might be surprised.

What the hell is going on down there is someone not sorry

Okay? His brother is a different person

Do you see the second image right there where the so-called different person advocates for Alligator Alcatraz and more prisons

Which conference is this?

(I know you said an Abundance conference but I was more referring to an official link/info, someone gave me it though) www.abundancedc.org/speakers

That's a picture of a 16 year old boy.

I hope no one bombs the conference

Wow his brother is? That must be terrible that he has such a bad brother. I have a ex-con in my family that spent some time in prison for shooting into his ex-es house. Does that make me a horrible person too? Is that how morality works in your world?

What's your take on "deportation abundance"?

Yeah it sucks. I have stated my opinion on this topic many times on these threads already, but I know you must not have seen it, so here it is: I am in favor of open borders.

This is a very unpopular opinion and if I only worked with people who agreed with me I would be part of an insignificant coalition with no political influence. I could feel smug about it though. And I used to be like that!

But then I decided that was stupid and that if I wanted to actually accomplish anything I would have to form political alliances on things we agreed upon but with people I didn't particularly agree with on other things. Or in some cases, didn't like. It was good for me.

This particular post seems to be some kind of right wing in joke. I used to spare with Mike Solana on Twitter, back when I thought that was a good use of my time. He is an ass and I don't like him.

I have to say, I find it mental that you're looking at the output of a guy who's obviously pushing some malicious shit about prisons and Alligator Alcatraz, and then making an argument that he's not just as cooked as his fash brother. Or that we shouldn't assume he is as cooked as his fash brother.

How do you propose we stop the rising tide of Trump evil in the nation? I am dead serious here. We need a pretty big majority to do it. Where do you plan to find the people?

I don't think he is pushing for Alligator Alcatraz but I can't read his mind. He's kind of a libertarian and they tend to not go for that sort of thing. You are constantly being propagandized by everyone, including plenty of Blue Sky posters. And by me, most likely!

If I am constantly being propagandized by everyone, that must include you. And it's really suspicious that you look at that tweet and conclude it's something he's opposed to, as if we haven't seen decades of ancap 'libertarians' leaning fash as the glitter on their ideology rubs off.

He's also what, 18? I know I am old but this person is seriously young.

Hochman in general is sort of technocrat libertarian leaning conservative. He's not a MAGA type, more of a Friedman type if you know what I mean. He likes capitalism. He's not a great person who I admire or anything but he doesn't like Trump's style of governance.

Buddy, he doesn't just "like capitalism". He's not disparaging the current administration's fucking inhumane deportation policy or the carceral system there.

Okay, keep your ideology pure. I hope we can find a majority to go to the barricades with us together. Let me know when that time comes, I have my powder dry and my kit bag packed.

I don't imagine I'll be seeing you there, mate. Most types looking to find common ground with these psychos don't tend to rubber band back when their inhumanity becomes more apparent.

Did you, by any chance, read the text of the image posted?

Let’s just say tho whole things seems tongue in cheek to me but I don’t know much about it. Mike Solana is indeed a pretty terrible person.

Sorry, I’m legit not getting what you mean. Which whole thing seems tongue-in-cheek, the post, or the conference itself? And what has Mike Solana got to do with the issue under discussion?

Betchya dollars to donuts there are some other things going on at this conference.

This is what you get when you microwave neoliberalism and give it a generous sounding name

wtf? I was suspicios of abundance talk, but I didn’t think it would age this poorly this fast.

Sounds like an over-Abundance of A-holes.

Deeply unsurprising state of affairs. The Abundance people were always grifters.

I read this thread thinking you were talking about NatCon and was like so what?? But then realized. Lmao. Omg.

Crazy hairline for a 16-year-old

Didn't realize we were speedrunning our way to the Herrenvolk version of "Abundance", but in retrospect it isn't that surprising now that we live in hell.