“why not office buildings make apartment??” the quotes from people who have at least some inkling of how the world actually works at an operational or a plumbing level are vastly outnumbered by left-reactionary yelling because knowing things just isn’t praxish enough socialists, learn plumbing
Anything to avoid new high rise residential construction.
It would be smarter to just tear them down and build new resi. Conversions are almost always bad and usually a super inefficient use of space.
Doable? Yes. Easy or cheap? No.
Chat, is an apartment unit with no windows in the center of an old office building up to fire code?
Often, yes! Can it meet the outside air requirements for ventilation? Also often yes though occasionally more challenging. Marketable? Sometimes! Advisable? It depends!
Why does this question keep coming up as if it presents new and intractable hurdles, rather than admittedly challenging but still often solvable approaches that have been repeatedly implemented for decades in some cities. poasters, talk to architects that practice adaptive re-use!
Sometimes it is tough! Plumbing is not usually the hardest part!
hey, I've owned a property management company. I have a decent idea of the work involved. I also know who's not paying for it in the overwhelming majority of the wannabes' cases! and you're right, plumbing often isn't. sure would help if any trades knowledge was applied, though, wouldn't it?
No question, involvement from trades is essential. I don’t know anyone doing this well that doesn’t involve the MEP subcontractors at early stages.
yup, totally agreed. why my eyes are in a rolled state is not the idea of doing it--it's the way that it's regularly delivered as a One Weird Trick, then picked up by other credulous people there are cases where it pencils out, but people smarter than the posters have looked at it first
…just important to know it does often pencil out, at least here in Cleveland the land where historically there’s been a lot that doesn’t, rent rates are fairly low, but materials cost the same as everywhere else. The conversions are well ahead of new construction volumes
(but for context, "plumbing" is a stand-in here; in addition to owning a property management company I am a software developer, where porcelain/plumbing is a shorthand for what-you-see/what-you-don't)
It reminds me of the half-clever types who insist that we should just turn old shipping containers into housing. That's 10% of the way there and it's the easiest 10%. It's a thing that keeps the rain off. Stone Age people could manage that. Also:
We just go back to communal toilets then, it’ll be fine! : D
I like where your heads are at, fellas (nongendered), but consider that maybe somebody before you thought about this and they weren’t stupid Chesterton’s fence is a thing for a reason
Chesterton's fence is a (philosophically, lower-case) conservative concept and for that reason I've been called essentially a Republican for referring to it before (or because Chesterton himself had the wrong kinds of opinion). Epistemic closure is a hell of a thing
there is a gap in everything even children understand you can not have ice cream as the only food at dinner, but they want to have ice cream with every dinner…something before the age of 10 all kids learn their are unwritten rules that mediate society a hidden place between visible and invisible
I am extremely agnostic / atheist but I am a sucker for proverbs 25:2 25:2It is the glory of God to conceal a matter and the glory of kings to search it out. 25:3As the heavens are high and the earth is deep, so the hearts of kings cannot be searched.
respect the hidden plumbing that makes the world work 🪠 🚰🚿💧⛲
It's very annoying because for left wing politics to make any sense you need to think well enough of other people's capacity for reason that Chesterton's fence makes sense. If I'm not the only person who isn't a moron then I should probably figure out x idea of mine hasn't been done already
Figure out why*
Anyone who pushes back on Chesterton’s Fence because GK Chesterton had Bad Thought is an idiot and should be ignored.
you know who else was a conservative? plato still thought some things
Real socialists know about material reality from famous podcast for the people Odd Lots
My wife works in Manhattan commercial real estate, and I can attest that it is happening in our weird little economy. Lots of drivers like commercial flight to quality. Developers are specializing in class B/C conversions. www.bloomberg.com/news/feature...
As a local land use nut who sat on too many land use committees, this topic drives me nuts Like, please think about building codes for 15 seconds. Someone in another thread said oh that just policy it's easy to fix.
These bamas have never sat in a hearing with the general public bleating about the smallest of zoning changes.
This is sorta in the same vein, but I feel this when people complain about gas powered leaf blowers, and like, I get it. But you’ve never maintained a large area of landscaping (for better or worse) before and I’m understanding that…. I cannot get shit done timely with a battery. I’m sorry.
my hackles raise when they talk about this because battery leaf blowers are awesome but always included in their inveighing, and tbh within a few years _will_ be where you likely need it, but in general yes
I will support and be gleeful.
It’s weird that this discussion is taking place in the realm of hypothetical projects, while out here in reality there are developers doing this work right now.
It’s both a good idea for developing former office space that people are doing right now in several buildings I can see from my home which was formerly an office, and it’s also difficult and expensive.
It is truly too bad that it's so difficult but maybe there's a way to rethink how offices are built moving forward to position them for other uses later down the line?
not that i disagree, but i expect this would probably require a pretty radical shift back to individual offices in a way that office buildings haven't been constructed in nearly a century, which is super cost prohibitive for both developers and employers
give me an office with a door that closes and I'll actually show up, though
and a full bathroom suite, cooking appliances, etc
Everyone should have the ability to go to a private office OR go hang out in the shared space. working is boring and flexibility helps.
I know nothing about plumbing or residential/commercial codes. THAT SAID, I spent 3 years as the sysadmin for a PM&E engineering firm, and even I know this is not something that can be accomplished by simply putting up drywall in the layout of an apartment.