Still wild to me that so many "savvy" folks on left and right have bought into the idea that online misinformation is overblown and doesn't really matter. From lies about migrants to transgender people to crime to election denial to climate denial, it's literally driving our country's politics.
What to do about it is an extremely hard question. Anyone offering simple fixes is probably a grifter. That's the part of the critique of the "misinformation industrial complex" I think is valid. But the viral spread of lies tailored to each user's basest instincts and biases is real & corrosive.
"The price of free speech, is unpopular speech." This goes equally well when applied to lies and misinformation. It is a real issue, and IMO is exactly what Putin was talking about when back in 2015 he spoke of his secret weapon against the west. He was speaking of social media.
There have been various efforts to address this issue, snopes.com in a good example, as is ground news. But the fact of the matter, is that there is an effective firewall between officials of both major parties and those of their constituents who align with the opposing party.
Even within the so called legacy news agencies. Each reaches a target audience and tailors the narrative of each story to support their own political bias. The system we setup at the founding of our nation is now used to subvert the very idea we sought to protect. Free political expression.
There are things that could be done given sufficient political capital and will. For instance we could outlaw any politician from 'buying' ads on legacy or social media during campaigns. Instead requiring them to utilize services such as YouTube to disseminate their messaging.
This would ensure equal access to all candidates for air time. Further we could require that any media outlet if they want to interview a candidate they must give equal air time to each and every candidate running. Helping to break some of the firewall effect.
Ranked voting on a national scale such as what they do in Alaska would drastically change the tenor of campaign messaging. As each candidate then has an interest in not alienating the other side as those votes could ultimately benefit them. Big step in depolarizing our national politics.
But the problem goes deeper than this. We have a fundamental issue in our legislature. Each vote on a bill is a winner take all proposition. This creates an enormous pressure to be the party in control of each chamber of congress. Compounding this is the willingness of party leads to
deny a vote to bills sponsored by the party in opposition even when those bills likely have sufficient votes to pass. I say the solution lay in making votes harder, not easier. Add to the requirement of simple majority to pass a bill. To instead also require that both major parties...
Must also yield up a simple majority within their caucus. This would empower the party in the minority ensuring that their priorities have the same weight as that of the majority. And it could be done without special procedural process such as the filibuster.
Teach people to actually talk to each other.
have lectures and other things people can go to to learn things (like this sounds incredibly nerdy but it doesn't have to be).
It could start with the media quitting the habit of basically repeating the lies of the disinfo peddlers as the leads of their coverage. The story is not what Musk, Trump, et al. are saying; it’s that they’re lying in service of an agenda.
Have you ever looked at the comments of obviously staged shorts on YouTube or Facebook? The majority of people think they’re real. Horrendous acting, questionable circumstances, the glaring question of why someone happened to be there with a camera recording — not questioned by most people.
Has anyone looked into the micro targeting algorithm? Maybe developers should look at making programs that detect and attack the algorithms that spread the misinformation. If they can’t spread it, the damage will be less
Yes - and money drives the misinformation
Clicked on your profile and it says "writes about tech for the Washington Post". Written anything critical of Amazon recently? I don't think it's social media driving misinformation, it's the oligarchical press that does the most to degrade discourse. As it always has been
I think we need teach ins. More times people can just go to lectures etc. to learn stuff locally, not just listen to podcasts or consume social media. But that doesn't fix it at a big systemic level of billionaires and huge corporations owning media companies in the entire nation. Yea I know.
Sometimes you can't do anything, in the way that sometimes, you try to cure a cancer and it still kills the patient. This may be human civilization finally hitting its end of days and dying with a whimper of a bang.
What if we flipped the script? Anonymity shouldn’t license harm but protect the vulnerable. What are we protecting—and at what cost?
When misinformation thrives, it’s because platforms prioritize engagement over accountability, and the collective we, the users, indulge our worst instincts without consequence.
It takes a lot of education to stand up to these levels of propaganda. And even then this may not be enough. Have been shocked to see some of my educated, supposedly progressive friends buy into some of it when they slide into being "low information" types. Which people r going to do more and more.
The source of the lies is pretty clear Russian troll farms and right wing media grifters. They needed going after, but in the current political environment I wouldn't expect the federal government to go after them at all
I still wouldn't say "driving" because there have ALWAYS been false narratives used and planted since well before the US was a country. But I do agree the information a/b testing that social media affords is a game change. 2 further points: 1st is due to @olivermmarsh.bsky.social 1/
1) it isn't deepfakes / AI / disinfo that's the problem – Russia &al. amplify narratives from legitimate sources that best serve their purposes. 2) not everyone RTs extremism, but a/b testing helps plant sharply weaponised stories to surf the waves of those affectively polarised people who do. 2/2
Yes, I'm not going to argue misinfo isn't a problem but I think the focus on "untrue" rather than "damaging irrespective of how true it is" isn't the right focus. A great (if old) piece on this demos.co.uk/research/war...
and fwiw I do think the focus on misinfo/disinfo was disproportionate relative to hate speech / polarisation, especially around 2016-2019, and just after chatgpt launch. Though the dismissal of misinfo is now going too far other way
We can do quite a lot about it. Our organization exists to address it, and if enough of us work together actively there, we can make it better. We can’t fix it, but we can make the dis/mis/information and bigotry substantially less powerful. Please join us! www.dangerousspeech.org/counter-spee...
I think constantly calling attention to it and pointing out "This is bullshit, don't believe it" is one way of doing it. We should be doing this to everything Trump and Musk have to say, too.
That fact that people’s news feed is tailored for them is part of the issue no? Some don’t see half as much. That said I’m glad it’s changing - some things fall foul of “fact checkers” and censorship when really the issue is some things are unevidenced.
We need to get rid of corporate media, restructure politics to get rid of money, and similarly strip political parties of power. Simple in theory, not in execution.
IMHO, the long, slow, and unsexy answer is in having more robust k-12 education which encourages critical thinking for a digital age.
And making sure that education is evenly distributed.
Teachers, librarians, poll workers have all been targeted by this Coup. It will get worse. Media needs to accept its responsibility or it no longer deserves 1A protections.
The fact that our major newspapers are complicit because everything’s owned by the same 5 oligarchs is depressing. It means certain doom. Truth & Democracy & Law&Order are all circling the drain in 🇺🇸 & the media keeps flushing & flushing & flushing. State-run oligarchy “news” is months away
100%
My belief is that the capitalist profit motive is heart of the problem. Divisive and offensive media sells and thus algorithms promote it. Nuanced views are less entertaining. Hence we need media platforms built up to promote nuanced and truth over offensive lies and disinformation.
We had national broadcasters here in Europe like the BBC or NRK here in Norway. We have non-profit newspapers like the Guardian. For a long time they helped keep the balance. Social media lacks this as it is built on American capitalist ideals. We need non-profit social media platforms.
But it is not enough for some geeks to start them. They need serious funding and some form of preferential treatment to gain enough size and momentum to challenge the for-profit alternatives. Democratic governments need to step up ans support it.
Definitely. The Truth doesn't work, as Disinformation isn't as much about the lie but how the lie is formed and delivered. There are many disinformation tactics out there, but nobody ever said you couldn't use the same tactics with the truth. Easier said than done, admittedly.
I see your point. Relatedly @himself.bsky.social points to the harder problem being platforms as degrading democratic publics with distorted information flows which leads to problematic beliefs about others beliefs rather than just individuals getting bad data inputted into their brains.
This is a very good article. Reminded me of Society of the Spectacle.
Although assuming the election was legit, a lot of voters have genuinely bad beliefs!!! No real way around that one.
Anonymity and misinformation aren’t just individual problems—they’re systemic. Social media isn’t just inputting bad data; it’s warping the structure of democratic discourse. What if the real issue isn’t the lies we see, but the way platforms distort our ability to see each other?
Spot on.
100% this ☝🏼
I don't always agree with Johnathan Haidt, but this is an excellent article about how we got here. www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc...
Excellent and thought provoking article!
Oh, this is good.
Thank you for this!!
Absolutely.
So true. I don’t believe those of us opposed to this rhetoric are in the minority. Xitter and FB have more bots and paid trolls spreading their lies with staged and manufactured disinformation and Russian propaganda and they’re causing violence offline - these radicalized people are in the minority
you're still trying to blame the Russians for the things American billionaires are doing?
It’s not binary. Do you not believe donald is Putin’s puppet?? Russia sent propaganda immediately spoken by magats. They sent a false witness against Biden. They sent bomb threats to Black neighborhoods during Election Day
Bingo. Most of us would never say the things to a person in front of us that we say to others online. I’m guilty of it.
Nailed it. Thank you.
Well said!
Have you tried doing anything to address the concerns of normal people instead of gaslighting them and calling them racist?
Are you referring to me specifically, or broader trends in how these issues are discussed? I’d love to clarify my stance if it helps the conversation move forward.
Broader sense. Any sort of legitimate concern about immigration is usually slandered as far right, which has ended up fueling the actual far right.
Thank you for clarifying. I agree that ignoring legitimate concerns can lead to backlash and polarization. How can we promote discussions that tackle real issues without amplifying extremist narratives?
why do you assume people like you are "normal"? You're loading the dice
All the most vile shit I've seen is from people with names and faces out.
That's what you've experienced. I've experienced both. Either way it encourages bad faith.
🎯 youtu.be/gAObqEu_tbg?...
Thanks for sharing this. I’ll watch it to better understand your perspective. What part of the video do you feel is most relevant to our conversation?
The whole thing, really. It’s short. Social media is distorting our realities through algorithmic feedback loops. It also amplifies divisiveness and the separation of ‘us & them.’ His is the voice I have found the most relevant post-election, fwiw.
I guess this is nicer to believe than “49% of Americans are bigots”, but I’m not convinced.
Fair.
isolation amplifies propaganda results
The 2024 election was decided on social media. I don’t know how the Dems have any hope for future elections.
I do think this is part of the problem.
It's not unlike a mental illness, where inputs are distorted by the brain trying to process information. In both cases, we move away from reality.
It would be Horrible for vulnerable people so I fear it's a non starter but I often wonder if social media required identifying info in user profiles so you could trace posts to the humans who posted them (and readily identify bots) would be a net positive for society.
The challenge: how do we design systems that balance accountability and protection? Can we imagine platforms that incentivize truth without exposing risk?
Bluesky is already trying to implement the solution: Have users bring their own identity. Bluesky only creates user identities because it must until decentralized identifiers (DIDs) become common. substack.com/home/post/p-...
Very true. I find myself hating Trump supporters when a lot of them just have a distorted reality. On the other hand I wouldn’t want to go to Texas and be labeled a Democrat in front of people I don’t know because their misinformation complex would ascribe all kinds of horrible things to me.
So many words to say almost nothing. I prefer to get it in a nutshell; misinformation is corrupting how people understand what’s going on in the world. Trump is making it worse.
It's not misinformation. It's the faux community in which people pretend to do something real by discussing major events over which they have no influence. It's the online version of voting and national politics in the US.
nothing wrong with disgusting major events. I’m so sick of the no politics here format.
He's actually saying the opposite of how you've summarised it, if anything.
We need to start in school. I didn't get the information about how important voting is until I went to college. Maybe that's because I'm from Missouri, but once I learned the importance, I never slacked off on knowing what I'm voting for.
I agree. www.theatlantic.com/technology/a...
Democracy had known shortcomings going back to Socrates. Not sure how you stop lying on platforms. Imagine most of us have shared something partial true or misrepresented at some point. ? is the person being malicious with information. www.worldhistory.org/video/1223/w...
It seems to me that we’ve pretty much lost the disinformation war. Half the public is low key brainwashed. I was watching Jimmy Carter’s funeral and wishing we could be decent again, if we ever really were. My heart is broken but I have zero ideas on the fix(es).
Ironically, my original post has blown up to a degree that risks giving it more weight than it was built to bear. Like most social media posts, it was a distillation of a feeling, tossed off in a moment. I'd encourage folks to consider it alongside the context and counterpoints others have posted.
Exactly. That is why having good filtering abilities is critical.
It's a straightforward and correct statement
It basically contains all the elements that explains why Trump is president again.
I really appreciate your insight and ability to think critically with nuance. I have been shadow banned on FB because I must have had a secret right winger or something that would turn me in for disinformation when I would post something sarcastic
One of those steps needs to be real punishments for deliberately printing/spreading outright falsehoods or portraying opinion as fact. It's a positive minefield to truly tackle the issue but there are steps along the way. Steps we should have already taken. IMHO
Realized I didn't close the loop on "ironically." The irony, to me, is that my post probably spread so far in part *because* it's an oversimplification, crafted in a way that elicits righteous anger, assigns blame to a nebulous outgroup (the "savvy"), and cites no sources — all hallmarks of misinfo.
You’re giving a well- thought iut idea. Putting words to a phenomenon we al see. You don’t need citations.
If you have not read or seen Carole Cadwalladr she makes a very similar point about misinformation and politics. This TedTalk is from a few years ago, but is certainly relevant now, or more so: www.google.com/url?q=https:...
Probably. But we, as scientists and journalists, need to find a way to communicate reality in ways that audiences can understand. Distilling complex content into digestible pieces (building blocks for better understandings) is a skill we all need to learn right quick.
Perhaps a lesson can be learned on content length. Industry Producers in mainstream media insist on brevity, falsely believing that audiences will not consume long form. But podcasting and youtube belies that folk belief about audience preference. It’s about removing the fourth wall, not word length
Create a “truth rabbit hole” where the intrinsic incentive is to go deeper and deeper into truth. This is highly motivating. Linking networks of experts and content where debunking falsehoods and showing how to weight arguments properly is a badge of honour - the converse of the QAnon-universe.
yep OP has frequently referenced and described these participatory media ecologies as crucial characteristics
Referring to other trusted sources within content, letting users “find the truth” on their own and building a whole ecosystem where real journalists and experts regain the trust they once had by opening doors (rather than holding users by the hand) can work wonders for building buy-in
Be the “guide on the side” rather than the condescending parent
of course the meta topic here is that the “twitter ux” and its grammars of brevity and engagement baiting also impede on our communications as much as facilitate them
To my mind this misses the point a bit. The VOLUME of messaging from algorithms is designed to “flood the zone” and drown out other messages. Add to that the ability to microtarget and we have given enormous power to plutocrats like Musk whose wild tweets get quoted verbatim.
Well those who know my work would know that that would be something for which I take for granted at this point. 😝
Looking forward to exploring it more. Bluesky can sometimes be a million people having 10 million conversations at slightly crossed purposes.
That's what the org I'm working for is striving to do. News that everyone can read and understand. If anyone is interested, check us out! @equalaccesspublicmedia.org
Also need to build a broader bench of messengers that reach into the influence economy
bsky.app/profile/gohs... Cite to Jiore Craig 👇🏼
I think i agree with this nuanced article: bsky.app/profile/torr...
Please consider joining our group there to address this. (And please answer the questions when you do.) www.dangerousspeech.org/counter-spee...
Can't take a W, can you?
Thank you for modeling good and thoughtful social media hygiene (for want of a better word).
Totally agree. These are the kind of posts i want to follow, not the excitable vitriol that others anyone & divides us more. Recent discussion of Jimmy Carter's life & outlook has re-enforced this thought for me, so even more timely
It's worth noting that the Dem's loss in November was largely driven by something the Repubs didn't need to lie about: inflation. Indeed it was the Harris campaign lying in that instance, and it was a pretty blatant and dumb lie ("it's just price gouging, we can fix it with this new law")
📌
You’re 100% correct. Lies, misinformation and disinformation won the 2024 election. Probably the 2016 election too. I was stunned by the lies people believed even back then.
While I don’t doubt it made some difference, putting too much weight on misinformation as a factor shields us from the reality that a lot of people simply just like the racist, sexist bully because he’s a racist, sexist bully.
the whole racist anti DEI, Anti-woke agenda is built on misinformation. but you’re not wrong, imo.
Totally agree it’s built on misinformation, at the same time racists will find a way to be racist with any given set of facts (or non-facts, as the case may be)
God damn that's a sane way to frame a thread. I'm literally putting a pin in this, so I can quote it the next time one of my casual 300char posts accumulates a small article's worth of replies 📌
I feel like a lot of us aren't saying "it's not a problem" but rather "we have a deeper problem of which this is a symptom." We need a huge ecosystem of both leaders and followers to change their basic orientation & become more interested in whether things are true. bsky.app/profile/fish...
The first step would be to acknowledge the addressible market for claims is actually far larger than the addressible market for information. Thus, expecting an ungoverned internet to act as an information repository vs a claims repository is a key problem.
If we replace ungoverned internet by social advertising marketplace that relies on maximizing eyeballs, we are swapping po-tay-to for po-tah-to. Only if the place of expression gains value from information instead of claims, would you have the necessary precursor for good curation of information.
I think what makes it difficult to combat this is that in order to do so, a large number of people have to stop engaging in things that make them feel good. The only way it goes away within the current structure of social media platforms is if people don’t engage. And engaging feels good to them.
bsky.app/profile/colu... Such an important problem. The clearest (but not nearly complete) answer I've come across is in 👇🏼
open.spotify.com/episode/5xs3... The discussion of lifestyle influencers at the end of this interview is also super relevant to the *how*
agreed. I'm not too worked up about Zuck's recent decision, only because what he had didn't really work anyway, but we need something that actually does
its built off of decades of R&D from capitalist marketing & corporate PR. remember seeing a figure of how many PR professionals exist for every journalist, and the ratio heavily leaning PR was a sign of terminal disease
I’ve been plugging this book so much I feel like an unofficial press agent. But unique information silos are one of the big warning signs.
Hitler's lies drove Germany's politics and we know how that went.
the US hired the alumni and it ended up taking over the US?
Question:"what exercise can I do to target my beer belly fat" Answer= you can't! Quit drinking alcohol! Question: "How do we target change in society on this one issue" Answer= You can't! Quit living in a society where people value ideological wins more than marginal benefits/progress.
Kris Goldsmith of Task Force Butler has some good insights on this.He recently did a Youtube video w/ Meidas Touch & talked about what can be done.He has ideas to tax and penalize the crap out of these platforms that dont patrol for this type of information comparing to the oil &cigarette companies.
youtu.be/-l-Icyn2F_0?...
This is the video with Kris. He is a standup guy and has an extremely interesting background. Typically the last line of defense before a country becomes fully fascist is the military and people like Kris are the ones who can literally safe a country if it comes down to it.
I agree, I can read the news, then look at my daughter news and it is completely the opposite.
It’s intentional.
It should be called the “disinformation industrial complex”.
Much the same way LLMs break down as their diet increasingly consists if their own output, our socialized brains do as we are increasingly fed our own biases and beliefs, a deranging feedback loop of limited information and experience. bsky.app/profile/edwa...
Also not helped by the fact that anyone in a realistic position to combat it is either directly profiting from it or has a general response of "fuck you got mine" to the slightest notion of doing anything that could benefit others.
And successful because of the rise of social media.
🇨🇦 is not immune. I’ve voted 50 yrs, but since COVID I’ve never witnessed such a nonstop barrage of really vile RW propaganda. Bots churning out wild hyperbole. Heard over & over, it will sway voters. The only mitigation, 🇨🇦 reflects 🇬🇧 religiosity, half that of 🇺🇸, so smaller evangelical vote #cdnpoli
Oh, well, that's easy. Abrogate the 1st Amendment in these cases and gag the liars for dangerous speech under criminal penalties, in exactly the same way society condemns and penalizes those who shout "fire" in a crowded theater.
Who on the Left?
Start teaching critical thinking skills in school again, people have stopped independent cognition and just run with the pack...group think is the worst dynamic there is!
Nobody on the right is savvy. And who on the left is saying that?
Today’s (Jan 9) Democracy Now!has a segment on this.
This is why they are coming after the fact checkers. The fact checkers are the only thing standing in the way of them constructing an alternative reality and using that reality to assert authoritarian control.
You don’t even need misinformation. You just need disproportional coverage. Trans women in sports literally affects a handful of people. It dominated news for a while. Elevating fringe or minority opinions is sufficient. You don’t even need untruths.
I feel a big part of this issue is that it's so difficult to find credible news sources of any medium. Not just news that aligns with ur internal ideologies but that just presents a fulsome view of various issues. It's driven by clicks & rage bait & then drives votes & policies.
It’s is. It comes with real consequences as well. It’s so sad.
How can anyone claim it’s overblown? The real problem is the men/women who run these information companies. If they had integrity for truth over profits maybe we wouldn’t be here. We need CEO’s and politicians with integrity instead we have bootlicking sycophants and a deranged president.
They struggle to believe that are manipulated and the only response is to downplay the threat as not to include themselves as at risk of misinformation. It is a personal and hubristic reason, but I see it constantly working and explaining political communications.
👍🏾👍🏿👍🏻👍🏽👍👍🏼
Nazi tactics. 1. Gaslighting 2. Projection 3. Illusion of truth, telling the same lie over and over until it's considered the truth. Highly effective when people aren't interested in the truth.
Did people on the left “buy into” this or are they incapable of effecting any change on it?
Oh god you work for the Washington post? Imagine having the balls to attack the left while collecting a fat check from Jeff Bezos.
A lot of areas have the problem - and the misinformation half life is long. #Science arstechnica.com/science/2025...
Are they savvy though? Or left wing? All the issues you list are right wing tropes. The right which tends to be uneducated these days are the ones buying into this. Education rather than willful ignorance is the solution.
Trump ran on "Fixing" the lowest inflation rate in 20 years. He ran on, and won, using blatant lies
I'm not convinced they aren't savvy, but just malicious. The whole Tenet media scandal was wildly under blown.
🎯 I guarantee all of us have at least one factually incorrect thing in our brain from the internet that we swear is right. Maybe it’s in a blind spot or maybe we used the internet to confirm our bias.
I have no doubt whatsoever that you are right about this.
😂
👍Agree; everyone has a mind & should take time to think, evaluate & find evidence to confirm, not just take things at face value.
Sadly, the misinformed flock voted about issues that do not affects their lives in the least.
Absolutely, and it goes further than that. POLLS!!!!
I always double check the important things!
Are you shooting from the hip or is there some polling I missed about self identifying leftists opinions about misinformation and social media?
It's the single most powerful force in politics today.
Online dis/misinformation filters down to offline folks so online integrity does matter.
Not overblown- a red title wave overtook the country.
Because Division is the objective wich will cause instability this is not new .
Truth.
That'll be because the politicians are aliens... or just idiots.
Actually it’s your politics driving the lies and innuendo that’s what many can’t or don’t want to see.
And it’s not going to stop because there is no one’s. It will stop him. They are all scared.
It’s not just social media, Fox, AON Newsmax continue to spread misinformation
Couldn’t agree more!
Virtual control through sheer manipulation-perpetrating the convoluted espionage of the psyche. Cognitive distortion, failing affliction into the throes of persecution- transgression personified. Contrivance, eventuating the engagement in perpetrating mass alienation and cowardice.
The left always learns the worst lessons from their losses to the right. They're going to want to increase their own online efforts to compete with right-wing misinfo. Solving it probably seems like unilateral disarmament to the savvy left at the moment.
it matters deeply and I want (online and newspaper) policy solutions that are aimed more at those in power pushing disinfo than those ordinary folks pushing misinfo.
US' over-the-air media has been one of the biggest drivers of lies & disinformation and they reach some 300 million folks on a near-daily basis When one asks what can be done, everyone says "freedom of the press" Millions love the lies & disinformation. It feeds into a narrative they want
It’s wild to me that public companies and their executives are regulated for what they can communicate online, but members of our government can spray around total lies that destabilize the country (and markets) with zero repercussions.
I couldn't agree more. The right-wing media and influencers have created an alternate universe where they can literally convince people that they're not seeing what they're seeing.
Yes!! Kamala would have won if it wasn’t for disinformation…and look at the consequences
To put it another way, if there weren’t millions of people dumb enough to accept misinformation as truth, we wouldn’t be having this problem. Misinformation would die in ignominy. Yet here we are.
It’s literally like the twilight zone, I mean is the sky red now?
oh, it matters, mainly because the education system is complete shit
👍
Not only your country‘s but all countries‘ that Pootin considers important and sends his influencers to.
It is literally destroying the world.
It's not driving our country's politics, profit is still doing that; it's driving consent to those politics. Which is still important, but it's not in a causal role.
Serious non-snark question: Where, exactly, are you seeing people dismissing the online-misinfo menace? My impression is exactly the reverse. This is the current prevailing view / conventional wisdom.
He might mean this article? I actually agree with it: bsky.app/profile/torr...
www.google.com/url?q=https:...
Sad and scary! Network execs are loving it
Man,that's a long convo thread!From what I've read, a big problem is where the infos coming from. In many parts of the US the only news is Sinclair &,Fox.And the pulpit, always the pulpit.In small towns people only see the people they've always seen,the only people they know. And for a large part➡
those people are (supposedly) straight &, white &, if the preacher says Democrats are evil people who want to indoctrinate your children &, make them gay or trans, they believe it.Good ole boys with their used to be pretty wives with their trucks that cost more than their houses➡
And if the life they live was good for their parents well it's good enough for them. But their not making the money Daddy made &, jr's acting "queer" &, yada, yada, yada.➡
It's not that these people are stupid (mostly) but seriously, they haven't been taught how to think.Literally. These are my people. I have NO education. I'm just gifted with a curious mind &, a rebellious streak,I've taught myself.➡
Then you have to measure for the people who are just willfully ignorant, even with a college degree. Anyway, you put all that together &, what do you get? MAGA.We will never change them.The people who are profiting from them know that.➡
Last one, I promise. We need to get the newer generations &,teach them rational thought &, how to tell the truth from a lie. I'll leave that to those smarter than me. I hope this made sense. I'm not trying to belittle them,it's who they are.
I told my folks yesterday about the LAFD budget cuts. Apparently I was quite wrong about that. I'm not even sure where I read it but I clearly did not dig enough on it. It's definitely not easy to make sure you are correctly informed 100% of the time in the current information landscape.
💙 Twenty Lessons on Fighting Tyranny from the Twentieth Century scholars.org/contribution...
Probably because they are “savvy“. It seems very hard for people who have many sources of good information and a habit of using them to conceive of what it’s like to live in the information vacuum here. Lies and misinformation completely rule that world—and savvier don’t recognize the consequences.
The truth doesn't matter if it goes against the individual's belief system. Shitstain Zuckerburg said that factchecking has become political, but it hasn't, it just overwhelmingly affects right wing news because their ideology isn't build on truth and facts - it's built on fear & emotion.
Try convincing some liberals not to post misinfo - they don't understand the difference between "well, I believe it happened" and "it actually did happen." They will call you names and block you.
Yet blaming it on online disinfo also misses the reality of what the majority in most countries think.
Not just your country either. 😵💫
Keep journalists’ feet to fire. Question him about campaign promises at every opportunity. Did he lower inflation? Did he close the border? Is fentanyl still getting through? Stick to issues that will affect elections in 2 years. Keep his shiny distractions like annexing Canada to a bare minimum.
Keep journalists’ feet to fire. Question him about campaign promises at every opportunity. Did he lower inflation? Did he close the border? Is fentanyl still getting through? Stick to issues that will affect elections in 2 years. Keep his shiny distractions like annexing Canada to a bare minimum.
Reminds me so forcibly of the dramatization of the Hutu propaganda (calling the Tutsis cockroaches), which led to the genocide of the Tutsis in Hotel Rwanda. The historical truth of what happened there is super informative - it's why I don't dismiss anything the Orange Fascist and his minions say.
Social media is the devil.
When I find especially remarkable is so many people can’t detect obvious fakery. We clearly overestimate people’s intelligence. George Carlin knew the truth. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDUI...
I don’t know about that. I think calling them “savvy” is an overreach. If they’re truly savvy then they should know. In this context you’re almost using like when I see ‘critical thinker’ in many of the MAGA bios.
Today the comments are full of lies about the LA fires and the budget and water, everywhere.
Because it would force them to accept they were wrong about some things. Misinformation thrives on half truths and fears.
I’m a words matter person & just posted this morning about misinformation which is not deliberate & disinformation which is deliberate and a lie. We are being inundated with deliberate lies and I think using the right words really matter. Propaganda plain and simple not an innocuous turn of phrase.
How do we fix it and make our truths be heard over the lies, why are the lies so much louder than the truth?
The only way to fix it is too get rid of social media, but we know that will never happen. An uneducated populace is easier to control.
Because it drives legacy media pundit talking points & media podcast pundits across the board. How often do you hear, “trending on Twitter, X,” et al. Huh??? Huh???
Totally agree. Propaganda is why Harris lost and why we have lost half our country
Harris lost because she forgot to tell people they were not black unless they voted for her.
Many fascists came to power by controlling the media!! Trump, Putin, Farage are doing it or trying to do it now
Misinformation and media literacy will be what people in the future point to about the 2020s. People unable to tell what is real causing political, economic and health problems across the globe. The rise of AI feeding into it. Heading to a Dune like future where we ban all thinking machines.
I don't know of any "savvy" lefties that don't understand how destructive the misinformation is that's coming from social media, msm, and rightwing media.
Far from being overblown, misinformation is the single greatest threat to our country and its people. It is literally tearing us apart.
This is the trust statement ever told on the internet!! If the dems EVER want to win again, they HAVE to call out the lies and continue to call them out every day over and over and over again. It's the only way to combat the lies being told over and over again and becoming the accepted truth
Regardless, the intent of the misinformation is deplorable and should continue to be scrutinized.
Indeed. Society has been more damaged and destroyed by online misinformation than most would have thought possible only 15 years ago. It's the cause of the division. Propaganda isn't just posters and pamphlets anymore.
It's driving the world's politics.
I've been unpleasantly surprised at liberals' reactions on here when I've challenged them with their sharing misinformation on here. I've been called names, blocked, gaslit, etc. What hope do we have if we behave this way?
I would add the online misinformation are now the main strategy in elections around the world.
Please don’t “both sides” this issue. Republicans are armed with lies that travel around the world before the Democrats’ facts can get one leg into their pants.
There is a both sides thing to this. The volume isn’t the same by far, but nobody should think they haven’t believed bullshit online. People should’ve known in 2023 there needed to be a real primary, but people had to put “Ridin’ with Biden” in their profiles and hashtags.
Seems pretty self evident. Ask the average person where they get their news or info about the outside world - they'll name social media sites, or at least struggle to name anything else. Especially local/regional news which barely exists anymore. FB, TikTok, & NextDoor.
I always saw it as overblown because humans can't be that stupid; like Jewish laser beams buuuut... I enjoy be proven wrong on human stupidity.
Yeah it’s crazy. Misinformation is the fuel for everything that is happening and will happen and Facebook just joined the misinformation campaign. The crazies are winning. Truth, data, fact, science, sanity is losing.
It can and does also result in death threats to politicians et al, thus increasing the danger to and sometimes even the taking of life.
There's long been this sense that anything presented over an Internet link isn't real. There are certainly dishonest actors; more so the more mainstream the Internet got. But this notion has NEVER been true. The Internet is just another communication system. These systems always affect societies.
They like their brand of confirmation bias.
Not just your country's politics. It's driving politics almost everywhere. Canada is battling this shit hard right now, and TFG is making it worse. Misinfo campaigns are destroying democracy. The Russians played the long game and are winning.
Exactly. I’m American, and I’ve seen way too much (immigrants are eating the pets/decorative fish/golf geese etc) nonsense about Canada
And I love Canada so this is hard to see.
I see your point 😭
💙 Twenty Lessons on Fighting Tyranny from the Twentieth Century scholars.org/contribution...
I think they’ve won. 😩 That’s why we’re here. Our poor allies. 😭😭😭
They're winning. They haven't won yet. Don't give up.
I’m really trying. I’m struggling though.
Same
I’m not sure how we possibly could not. We understand what’s happening and it’s normal to feel this way but not particularly helpful or fun.
PLEASE, please call it what it is it's widespread systematic lying for political advantage ie "disinformation" or "propaganda" We have to understand that this is an intentional psycho-social campaign waged by state actors and oligarchies and meant to weaken and destroy democracies.
Even the “don’t believe everything you see on the internet” generation. As a woman in her 50s, I’m the OG generation when AOL and modem noises were the norm. We invented the “don’t believe…” phrase for younger generations. STILL, so many of us have forgotten our own words about crap on the internet.
Propaganda works. It always has
There aren’t any savvy folks on the right. They are either criminals or just stupid.
Don't worry, Meta will fix that problem.
You have monied interests trying to control the opinions of others, trying to shape perceived reality so they can have their way. What did anyone think was going to happen?
In 2010 was a LW militant for a while. I pleaded my LW friends to “occupy every corner” of our regional social media space + not to leave it in the hands of the RW. “Nah, it’s only virtual” “We don’t do FB, it’s the capitalist’s play”, etc. Sad. Words pollute brains, change lives. Let’s not forget.
Fascist depend on mis AND disinformation to keep us divided.
"Underinformed democracy" is an oxymoron
Did you ever read this? harpers.org/archive/2021...
It is how these monsters got elected.
Do you mean posts saying that the trans kids are taking over women's sports in high schools and colleges? According to the head of the NCAA of the 600,000 student athletes in the NCAA, fewer than 10 are trans!! Why is this the number one priority of Republicans in the house?
Because they want to k*ll trans people (i.e. the minority group I am a part of)
They are desperate to focus people on any issue other than the campaign promises they are already breaking. This is the orange satan's mo. He says evil things to distract us from his numerous failures. We all have to stand together or the MAGAts will pick us off one small group at a time.
Because it distracts the minions from the real issues. Sort of like a slick 3 Card Monte dealer.
It’s literally created a new reality that millions live in and believe is “the news.” It’s fucking dystopian.
I don’t even have my journalism degree on my wall anymore. It feels like a paper saying I am a certified typewriter repairman. At least with my geology degree I still know that rocks exist.
💯 Here’s a good example.I’m outside Vegas w/ my 75 year-old mother who is currently listening to Dan Bongiono’s podcast.I’ve never really heard him talk until today but he’s an unapologetic, abrasive asshole who projects & spreads misinformation in a rapid fire cadence.And he’s far from the only one
Lies are DISinformation since they are deliberate.
If anyone is up to the challenge, I recommend applying to the CU media studies dept.
💯
Just about everyone will comment/joke about how foolish it is to believe everything you see online. The sad and scary thing is that it appears that the majority of Americans do tend to believe everything they see online.
I think most people who say 'many people on the left and right do this....' are grifters. This type of polarized thinking is very limited.
Is it polarized thinking? Or just false equivalency?
Both. Talking about things in terms of Left and Right in America is pointless, because most people don't know what those terms mean, and most importantly, distracts from talking about actual policy, regardless of ideology. Also corporate right-wing grifters think anyone who disagrees is a leftist.
The sole fact that NaziZionists got away with genocide for 70+ years is proof that misinformation is widespread, supported and sponsored by the government and the media.
Stopping blatant and malicious lies is no affront to free speech. It enhances it.
A humbling realization over the past ~ten years has been that we are all susceptible to misinfo. There is no innate or superior trait that makes one immune from falling for a lie or half-truth. The best we can do is show grace, seek & share truth, & forgive ourselves & others when our efforts fail.
The truth matters in whatever venue information is presented.🔥💙
it matters. you can see it coursing through the sites. but the "don't worry your pretty little heads about it we'll do the fact checking for you and suppress what we don't want you to see" approach wasn't winning
And it's being done on purpose so that we will not unite to fight capitalism and so that people like Trump will get in power. It's all been leading to that.
Definitely not overblown. And set to get worse with Zuck coming out of the sycophant closet.
Not your country. The world.
Here too. All day, every day. Discover feed is full of misinformation and garbage. It's like an army of PR firms have moved in and set up camp.
People are like water, man
As well as that there is the disinformation bias and outright lying of the UK’s national printed press.
So many folks? Feels to me that Democrats don't know how to fight it, not that it doesn't matter. Part of the problem of Resistance 1.0 was it was completely focused on Trump himself, and a lot of it was online misinformation, too. Non-online people see both parties as lying to the public.
We are too focused on "well, Trump is the worst!" when we have people on our side that by any other old political metric be considered untrustworthy.
Democrats are controlled opposition. Of course they failed.because they were punching left the whole time
It's a serious global issue. Brexit was fueled in part by a targeted campaign of online lies and disinformation (courtesy for example of Cambridge analytica). As were the #FarageRiots in the UK in the Summer. Without access to sources of trustworthy and reliable information, democracy dies.
I think the root of the misinformation problem is trump himself. Though the plant is growing pretty good now, too.
Again.. the right wingers have controlled the narrative since Rush Limbaugh came on the scene. We have done next to nothing.
The Democratic party doesn't stand for anything because their job is to stop the left. They kill any ideas that they could get elected on
They use it as the predicate for all their greedy bullshit. It is fucking poison to democracy. To everyday life.
And we have allowed a few oligarchs to control that information.
That’s the point no one wants to fact check anything anymore. Let’s put misinformation out here and see if it sticks. And the masses eat it up hook line and sinker.
It is so hard to believe anything online because you never know if it’s fake or not you have to figure it out. Read what you like but then go do your research, AI also makes things online look fake. Just do your research. Don’t believe everything you see online.
Are we headed the way of afghanistan for religiosity and cratering of women’s and human rights? Also, all of the private militias hot for donnie will be an american Hamas
True; grievously so
Just like the yellow journalism of the past. It’s not just online. NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, MSNBC, CNN, OAN, NYT, NYP, WaPo, it’s all constant right wing propaganda.
Completely true. We are paying the price of that percentage of the population who has shut their ears to logic and allowed someone else to think for them.
We've just started a weekly blog with the goal of helping our community develop skills to recognize misinformation and disinformation. Their learning styles and literacy rates are across the board, so, we're looking for resources to share that aren't just written. Suggestions appreciated.
Yes, It boggles my mind as well. It takes intelligence to learn the truth & education is so important. I’ve heard people say they get their “news” from social media.
Many folks don't trust mainstream media anymore for accurate news. At one point social media was useful for getting instant, live updates from the point of view of people that were actually experiencing the event, but that has been majorly corrupted in the past decade.
I'm from Scotland it's been the driver in our politics for years but it's now taken grip all over the UK now aided by a certain president Musk.
Don’t disagree. But what does one have to do with the other?
It makes it so hard to reach out to people I know who are conservative. When I was younger, we could discuss the best way to solve the same problem, or even what should be considered problems. Now I gotta argue about dumb shit like if there are litter boxes in classrooms for trans kids.
The lies about migrants to transgender people won't be believed by the people who believe it, because it supports and enforces their own vile bigoted views. Don't expect people to research something that would prove them wrong.
Yes but you have to tell people what the lies about migrants are. People where I live see the issues with migrants every day. That's fuck all to do with social media.
That last line is KEY.
People research by searching on the internet. Peoples' biases can easily be validated regardless of the facts.
omg THANK YOU. the number of "Dont worry about it" or "Dont think about things that make you depressed" its the dr.seuss ww2 propoganda posters all over again.
I totally agree. I know WAY too many people who believe literally anything if a handful of people share it on social media. They think that if more than one person shares it, it must be true. There's no talking them out of it either.
Yes, and we have to include disinformation as well.
Climate denial and climate catastrophe are both misinformation
if they think it doesn't matter, they have no right to tell a kid lying is wrong.
Agree
It's difficult for me to fathom how anyone cannot see how cancerous misinformation really is. I think they miss how much of an appetite humans have for the very thing that's tearing them apart.
Online and main media misinformation is paid for by billionaires
It’s also driving our massive cultural and socials divide. Literally tearing the fabric of our country to pieces.
True!
Even the fake AI pictures and urban myths that are spread, while seeming harmless, groom people to accept larger lies.
Agree. It's less, if at all, about left vs right or liberal vs conservative, but now it's truth vs falsity. BTW, opinions are OK, but not false "facts", a/k/a lies.
People like to see it as less harmful than it is because it gives them permission to be awful to each other. Now it’s well integrated into daily life and courtesy is dead and buried.
I haven’t bothered watching news since November 5. There will be practically no reliable information in America for years to come. I believe nothing we are told. Zero. Zip.
The “ignorance is strength” of Orwell’s 1984 is coming to pass, 40 years late. All clear-sighted people must fight against it.
Misinformation has and will always be around, the responsibility is on the individual to seek the truth. The information is mostly available, stop taking information on someone's word. If it sounds odd, look it up...research.
The people who need to read and learn this won't bother. The cult relies on gullibility, unquestioning acceptance of and obedience to the words of their leaders, and suspension of reality.
Politics is downstream of culture.
People still cling to the idea that online is a different world that 'doesn't matter', and I find that's in large part because they also like to think who they are online isn't who they really are. Because they're terrible, but online anonymity lets them be terrible and pretend they're not.
I've argued for many years that the internet, especially social media, would eventually make democracies ungovernable and essentially destroy society. I think we may have reached a tipping point.
For the record, I ain’t bought in.
Who is saying this? No one is saying this. Classic straw man. Misinformation is clearly something we need to figure out.
I believe the term"post truth era" was coined during Trump's first term as president. All of American society seems to be emulating the court system where truth and justice take a distant second seat to whatever narrative can be pushed. What would Superman think?
It isn’t misinformation, it’s propaganda. Groups of words to inflate specific ideals to sway specific people to feel/speak/act/believe a certain way. By choice or otherwise, we all partake. We all just highlight different attributes depending on what we aim/work toward.
It only doesn't matter when you have critical thinking skills, which unfortunately a lot of people don't really develop. It sounds cynical but I've worked enough retail and customer service to know that it's true.
Who are these "savvy" lefties of whom you speak? I'm not familiar with them.
Ignoring/minimizing online misinformation cost Democrats the election. Just sayin'.
I believe it certainly greatly contributed to Dems losing the election,among a couple of other things. My question is, how do you get people to fact check?
Cognitive dissonance doesn't help either.
1. They have to be capable of critical thinking. 2. They have to want the truth. 3. They have to be motivated to find that truth. We've become a society where a lot of people want others to think for them and spoonfeed them information. I have no fucking idea how to fix it beyond education.
Thank you so much for stating the obvious !! Looked at this main post and had too delete him ! Anyone who takes anything on face value deserves to be lied too , sorry not sorry , your a wise person !
I think as well that there's a 4th step: Their access to good tools must be unimpeded. A few years ago "Google it" was parroted whenever someone didn't understand something. Now Google spits out nothing but shops, ads, and AI-generated summaries of the ad sites.
It's difficult to independently fact check unless you know the trustworthy sources, and insidiously easy for untrustworthy sources to worm in. Or for unscrupulous actors to simply buy a trustworthy source and hollow it out in order to spread more garbage.
Denial is about the only thing Americans can purchase w/ clear conscience i think the population awaking to find their parents were actually serial killers, was a little soul crushing We're in this crazy wrung of mourning, denial Will we break from our cowardice & confront the predators?
They also have to be able to accept that “the truth” might not be pretty.
Let's be honest. For them, the truth would be beyond ugly. They're living in a fantasy world. In that world, he is good, and everyone who opposes him is evil. Reality would mean accepting that not only is he not good, but they aren't, either.
Can be difficult. Because the amount of misinformation is exhausting. I could go on twitter right now, and could easily find 20 posts that are just plain wrong. No one has the time to fact check all of it.
I watch my voting aunt on Facebook get madder and madder at the left because injecting bleach into the lungs is done all the time to save people. I wonder what her conversations with her doctor are like.
She probably doesn’t go to the doctor. My sister won’t go to a doctor bc she has “beliefs” counter to science.
It's is THE issue of our times.
The great thing about disinformation is that it points out topics for which the truth should be told.
Indeed!
In my opinion it is THE #1 problem we have right now. All strongmen know that he who controls the media controls the populace.
I watch people lambaste “the media” any time they disagree with something in it. Everyone thinks they’re gonna find their little cadre of newsletters and be well-informed by news that only makes them feel good.
Most of us think no such thing. We are fed whatever garners clicks & therefore $. Getting info has become harder, not easier, despite being bombarded 24/7. If it isn't outrageous it disappears. That SOME only want to see what they agree with doesn't absolve the media of their obligation to inform.
Why do you think savvy folks are like this? What's your explanation?
My most generous answer is that the world is complicated, and there's a segment of the populace that prides itself on resisting oversimplification, creating a market for contrarian takes, many of which will contain elements of truth or useful correctives even as they risk missing forests for trees.
I think there's still a portion who think the Internet isn't real life or is some niche thing.
Generous, thoughtful answer. Usually find those closer to the truth than the not-so-generous. I ponder that re/my sister-a fairly intelligent person. Has slowly gone maga. Last year proudly said that she was gathering information anywhere but fake media. She resists nuance, not oversimplification.
Chris Cillizza types still want to make a living after all
Is “savvy” a synonym for “Very Serious People”?
Eggs and pets were the deciding factors it seems.
it absolutely matters:
