To be fair to Mick, I think we are all on the same side here: the Lofds needs rebuilding from the ground up. I agree with him that there is merit to an apolitical expert house to improve legislation. We all agree, I think, that at present the Lords is a compromised version of this.

'We all agree, I think, that at present the Lords is a compromised version of this.' I don't, the Lords is the worst of the worst at present, hereditary peers still exist as do the Lords Spiritual. As for appts of Johnson, Truss, etc...I've seen better legislature at the bottom of my compost heap.

You claim to disagree yet cite no issue if disagreement.

I wasn't clear, I disagree that the lords is compromised. I feel it's entirely dysfunctional and a travesty of democracy. 'We all agree, I think, that at present the Lords is a compromised version of this.'

But do you not agree that there is merit in a revising chamber of experts?

That certainly has merit. We have experts now don't we, advising the legislature. The Chris Whittys and his like?

We do, the Lords, in theory and as it is defended, is supposed to directly input into the design and writing of legislation (scientific advisers input on policy). My view is that a truly democratic second chamber is more necessary than a functional advisory one. At present, we have neither.

Is the Lords really meant to function as a list of experts? That's even more reason to abolish it then. Johnson's last bunch was a list of nine party members four were SPADs including Charlotte Owen.

Chris Whitty for example advises via the civil service rather than the Lords doesn't he? In post via merit rather than because someone likes him, which seems to be how the Lords works.

If Labour does one thing to improve this country, which costs nothing but restores some semblance of trust to politics, it will be reforming the Lords and introducing an element of PR to some part of our constitutional arrangement. By all means, keep a revising third chamber of experts.

Then there's: The Electoral Commission. ACOBA. Parliamentary Standards. Second jobs. Lobbying. Overseas funding. All Regulators. Beef up Select Committees. Much to do, all cheap and popular, but they're not showing any sign of intent.

Yep, no argument.

Spot on. And i think we're all disappointed with how Labour have completely bottled it.

Well, we have four years to go. There is time yet. I live in wilting hope that they don't bottle it.