I'm not wholly convinced they've meaningfully broken down in society at large so much as for a small group of right-wing elites, who in turn influence a small group of right-wing nutters. Small shifts in enforcing these red lines at the BBC would, hopefully, do wonders.
It does feel like this time it's escaping containment. I should add to this that the neighbour in question isn't online and never said anything about politics in all the time I've known them.
One of my takes from my drinks at the weekend that it's far wider and deeper than I had thought
It's easy to forget that five per cent is actually a huge number of people!
Reminds me of that % who are... less supportive of LGB (let alone the T+) rights every year in the British social survey. They can't all be people's bigoted grannies.
It is - and it's why you've always encountered a decent amount of racism in society, even when it was a small minority. But my fear is more of the types of person who are expressing those views now
Get an allotment, befriend people there and within months you'll be hearing incredibly racist things up to and including ethnic cleansing. You don't have to wander far from a safe bubble to hear such things spoken of passionately.
To a extent that was always the case - my fear is weve moved from the usual 5% who had those views to 25% or so.
I hear OAPs start off "I'm not racist, but... ". Us not racist ones gather and whisper, whilst the others loudly declare what they've read in the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph as though it's fact.
Whilst we're politely discussing these issues on Bluesky, those same right-wing elites are moulding the national mood, and produce daily articles on the BBC on migration in a negative light.
I am slightly convinced it has from recent chats/experiences with normies
I think it's definitely become more visible, but I'm less certain it's widespread. I honestly think a tougher line on "look, if you don't think Rishi Sunak is English, then you don't get booked on Question Time" could help reassert.
I am clearly going to become the Joker on this but within the last six or seven years, a very popular political movement was more or less destroyed because the media and political class decided it was worth their while making a concerted effort.
I think it was good, not bad, that 'the English irony' and the mural were considered non-negotiable, and that the central biggest problem is the right's immune response is not doing the same thing.
To put it pretty bluntly, if all the representative and community newspapers serving British ethnic minorities got together on this issue I don't think it would be the on the BBC news that evening
And they didn't before: huge amount stories in communal papers and statements that went uncovered and weren't picked up. It was only the correct willingness of Labour people to make it a party beef story that got it onto the BBC.
We see this at the other end, too: the BBC have gave more coverage to 'will Diane be the MP?' in July 2024 than 'Robert Jenrick being photographed with a member of Combat 18'.
Yeah, I think there is also the fact that Labour clearly don't regard it as an issue, or at least not enough to make a fuss.
Agree. Think Phil absolutely right here and in the previous post.
I have to say I can only conclude that part of the issue is some people in senior positions in Labour and in the media are themselves quite racist on the issue of refugees
As I occasionally say, we shouldn't see this as a whole new thing but partly as the latest development in post 2001 Islamophobia, which I think explains a lot here. Grooming gangs and cousin marriages both got into the mainstream via Labour MPs who don't care to be reminded of the fact.
Yeah - this is all very obviously Checkov’s gun And the first act was GWOT and supporting Israel If you’re at the point where, for example, you believe in mass death for “dem Islams” as every Israel supporter does, then they’re not really human and they don’t become human if they get a visa
Unfortunately this seems right but I don't understand how we are in a place where "main political party becomes completely radicalised" is not news but "leader of main political party is called out by other leading members of party" is news. Like internal discord is the only story available...?
It's part of the broader problem of treating everything as horse race, unfortunately.
worse though: that could involve some assessment of the horses relative to one another, not just whether the jockey is having a fight with his horse or not
I agree with approximately 97.5% of that, which will do for now. The question is, where's the beef going to come from? In 2017-19 the BBC weren't only listening to Tom Watson & co; they were happy to amplify Tory talking-points about Corbynite thuggery & bigotry.
So yes, a bit of In All My Years As A Conservative outrage from some credible Tory backbencher (get me a David Gauke type) would do the world of good in surfacing the issue, but really, Labour should be all over this stuff. Not joining in and doing 'innocent face' when called on it.
Yeah, agree - I mean in part because a bit more from Labour would prey on some minds in the chamber (it is ultimately a workplace after all).
I do wonder when they will start to act. There were 5 racist attacks in the news this week (2 of them committed by elected members of reform) but the Tory party has no interest in defending its right flank.
Ok but I don’t think those things were actually “non-negotiable” - those were just the hooks that were used. The non-negotiable bits were the wholly legitimate policies. And in any case I don’t recall Corbyn joking about hook noses but the alternatives to him had made some “interesting” jokes
So the logic of declaring Labour illegitimate in 2019 & saying political hygiene depended on electing a corrupt racist populist to No 10 instead was always about racial hierarchy & racism - and so is of a piece with “deport” - not in opposition to it. See Jenrick: anti-Corbyn, pro racism. end
Yes. This. The issue wasn't that the media etc went hard on Corbyn, it was that they haven't done the same on Farage.
Agree with the first half, but the key point was that in 2019 etc the media didn't do the same on Johnson.
I think 2018-19 was completely sui generis; it showed British media caring about racism at a level which has never been seen before or since.
You mean you don’t think the press will subject to Bobby J and Farage to similar levels of scrutiny in 2029 for their views on race? 🧐
At some point we also need to realise *who* is moving the dials on this stuff and *how*. I bang on about it - but the trans stuff wasn't some bottom up movement. It was literally a multi-hundred million dollar investment in research and campaigning by the Christian right in the US.
They've been very open about it. They did research to work out how to turn the tide on LGBT rights and the children/women trans thing stuck. So they rolled out a massive campaign on it and spent a fortune. At some point have to realise GB News is the same - it's a sinkhole for right wing cash.
That same reality is pathetic in the mainstream/centre-left space. And we keep thinking we can tinker at the edges with the BBC. I think we're losing the plot. Let's just get on and fight a bit.
Whereas when the BNP proposed much milder policies in it was correctly attacked. We're strange that we have much, much more diverse people in powerful positions now than we did in 2009, but are much weaker at policing racism.
A NHS worker was attacked in a park, a east Asian womans football team were giving racist abuse, a Sky news reporter was harassed, a MP is calling another MP the n word and reform councilor threatened to murder someone. In the last 7 days! None of this is popular! Talk about it!
Invite the woman who was assaulted to downing street. Send Liz Nandy to the woman's teams next match. Vote to suspend the MP. You are the government! You get to make the issue!
Because this is going to happen. There will be a backlash to more open racism. The job of the government is to make the backlash happen *before* people die.
Or on Starmer, more to the point.
One thing I think we can say is the media has not been kind to the Government
But not on this.
Ah, I've just worked out which mural: not the Jenryk's cruelty one but the other one.
In many ways I thought this was a bad idea and shouldn't have been done, but it definitely happened and worked, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask the BBC, opinion columnists, political parties etc to take things that seriously again.