and of course there is a bit of the affective hostility to "The Democrats" that is basically the currency of the realm of online political discourse
Replies
100%. Shake on a little, "i don't know these peoples' names or jobs," and voila, poop soup!
jul 8, 2025, 2:06 pm • 0 0 • view
It's not like he got quick endorsements from establishment leaders in NYC. And the NYT continues to post the weirdest attempts at hit pieces on him. So it's not a surprise that people have this public perception.
jul 8, 2025, 1:51 pm • 8 0 • view
you are just illustrating my point! the NYT isn't "the democratic party"
jul 8, 2025, 1:54 pm • 44 0 • view
But it is at times viewed as a mouthpiece for or reflection of the moderate establishment
jul 8, 2025, 1:59 pm • 1 0 • view
The moderate establishment, famously out to get Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.
jul 8, 2025, 4:35 pm • 2 0 • view
and honestly it's increasingly clear that the times' ownership is actually hostile to the democratic party
jul 8, 2025, 2:01 pm • 20 1 • view
Has been for decades now.
jul 8, 2025, 2:02 pm • 6 0 • view
at first we thought it was just the clintons, but time showed otherwise
jul 9, 2025, 1:27 pm • 3 0 • view
The expectation of “quick endorsements” is also a canard though. A lot of people predisposed to hating democrats for reasons are taking silence or hesitation as opposition when it’s most likely not. As for the Times? Yeah, they’ve been garbage for a while now.
jul 8, 2025, 1:58 pm • 4 0 • view
Schumer and Jefferies made this a reality by being publicly hostile and frigid to Mamdani. Because of that the perception will continue to be that Big D Dems are hostile, whether Rodneyse fell in line or not.
jul 8, 2025, 2:50 pm • 1 0 • view
Any issue or actor which can be portrayed as the democrats “not understanding the people” will absolutely be portrayed that way, even if it is in the case of a politician who has broad worker and lower income voter support.
jul 8, 2025, 1:46 pm • 18 0 • view
Mostly undeserved, and in the big picture a branding failure that might kill millions.
jul 8, 2025, 2:16 pm • 0 0 • view
honestly if there is any single idea i could get people to understand it is this one. or to put it differently, the same features of the american party system that allows a mamdani to win a prize like the NYC mayoral primary also makes any top down control or disciplining very difficult
jul 8, 2025, 1:53 pm • 1,412 174 • view
Reminds me of this great writeup arguing that political parties (as most countries know them) are illegal in the US: jwmason.org/slackwire/po...
jul 8, 2025, 2:28 pm • 1 0 • view
Multiple parties without primaries / mandatory party-internal democracy: best of both worlds! (Strong parties, strong interparty competition everywhere not just swing states, no crazy incumbent party advantage.)
jul 8, 2025, 6:05 pm • 0 0 • view
It’s not top down control that’s the problem, nor strong parties, it’s that primary elections are mostly the only elections that matter AND that small fractions of the electorate participate in them - tending towards the most partisan. IOW it’s not the parties that are the problem it’s the SYSTEM
jul 8, 2025, 2:46 pm • 0 0 • view
that republicans have had relatively unified messaging for the past couple of decades is because they're not good member of the american party system — it is an example of authoritarian takeover happening. democrats being unable to duplicate that is because they are not authoritarian in structure.
jul 8, 2025, 2:28 pm • 1 0 • view
In 2026 come see the Kings County Democratic Party organizing meeting. Very bad stuff in the open.
jul 8, 2025, 5:58 pm • 0 0 • view
are we getting widespread ranked choice voting in state or federal elections any time soon? if not (and we're not), this analogy is weak at best. first past the post voting entrenches two parties. it just does.
jul 8, 2025, 2:06 pm • 2 0 • view
Right, but the two parties being very entrenched is extremely different from them being "strong" in the sense of having internal control. In fact, we have weakened them hugely *because* there's no alternative to them; primary elections are a US thing which exist as a kind of consolation prize.
jul 8, 2025, 3:10 pm • 5 0 • view
It's true that RCV helped vault Mamdani up, but the point is that, unlike political parties almost everywhere else, the Democratic Party does not simply internally decide all the candidates for every race, nor expel elected officials who defy the party line. Voters alone have that power.
jul 8, 2025, 3:11 pm • 5 0 • view
Sounds like RCV is worth advocating for then
jul 8, 2025, 2:30 pm • 0 0 • view
If the DNC were really a shadowy cabal that wants to make sure only centrists get nominated, the party could just change the rules and go back to just having them pick nominees instead of holding primary elections.
jul 8, 2025, 2:24 pm • 8 0 • view
Instead people are taking the DNC policy of non-involvement in primaries as evidence of the shadowy pro-centrist cabal. It's classic conspiracy theory thinking. Any evidence against the conspiracy is actually proof the conspiracy exists.
jul 8, 2025, 2:26 pm • 10 0 • view
That's exactly it. Plus I do think some of that conspiracy theory "surely SOMEONE must be secretly controlling them!" is driven by the fact that the Dems are the party overwhelmingly preferred by Jewish Americans. Wherever we congregate, weirdos think we're secretly in charge.
jul 8, 2025, 2:34 pm • 6 0 • view
That was a drum Jonah Goldberg used to beat incessantly (probably still does 🤷)—we’re in an era of strong *partisanship*, but weak *parties*. A strong GOP would have shut Trump down in 2015; instead, he captured the party and hollowed it out.
jul 8, 2025, 2:28 pm • 4 0 • view
But we also saw this with Trump a decade ago! The parties do not have institutions with enough power to prevent them from being taken over by outsiders!
jul 8, 2025, 3:26 pm • 2 0 • view
hm! this sounds like a cognizance that would be great to see developed in one of your excellent videos!
jul 8, 2025, 7:58 pm • 0 0 • view
I feel like you’re talking about the literal party when everyone who talks about The Democrats this way is referring to all of the money that supports the party and the “pay your dues” old boy club at the top I’m unclear if you’re doing this intentionally
jul 8, 2025, 1:57 pm • 3 0 • view
can you just accept that the democrats like the guy they just chose to represent them
jul 8, 2025, 2:01 pm • 7 0 • view
The politician believer has logged on
jul 8, 2025, 2:10 pm • 0 0 • view
yeah i believe in mamdani is there a problem
jul 8, 2025, 2:10 pm • 8 0 • view
So do I, I don’t understand why you’re trying to convince me Hochul or Gillibrand or any other number of the Dems do too
jul 8, 2025, 2:15 pm • 0 0 • view
im not, i dont care about specific dems that make you mad the party supports zohran and so do i
jul 8, 2025, 2:16 pm • 7 0 • view
Specific Dems like I’m talking about your neighbors Joe and Sue lmao. They are top Democratic leaders in our state. The one that Zohran is running in
jul 8, 2025, 2:19 pm • 0 0 • view
you are more than happy to ignore the ones who support mamdani, why are you not happy to ignore the few weirdos who dont
jul 8, 2025, 2:20 pm • 5 0 • view
i don't think your mental model of "the democratic party" corresponds to reality very much.
jul 8, 2025, 2:02 pm • 26 0 • view
I acknowledge I don’t have the insight that you do. If not the magical hand of The Party what would you say has driven the coordinated railroadings of Hogg/Sanders/Mamdani at various points?
jul 8, 2025, 2:09 pm • 1 0 • view
Great question
jul 8, 2025, 2:33 pm • 0 0 • view
What Jamelle seems to be pointing out is that the official bodies of the Dem Party in NYC are lining up behind Mamdani (e.g. the Manhattan Dem Club), but what you’re referring to is high-profile, wealthy _members_ of the Party who wield outsize influence at the national level & with media.
jul 8, 2025, 2:25 pm • 5 0 • view
Yep, I’m reiterating Jamelle’s first few points 🙂
jul 8, 2025, 2:34 pm • 2 0 • view
Sure but those who wield outsized power are clearly the people being referred to when talking about “The Dems”. It’s silly to be making a big point about how The Party is nothing but the members, but also admit that some members have more say than others. In a party called the Democrats no less
jul 8, 2025, 2:29 pm • 2 0 • view
Except, quite clearly, those “some members” don’t have more say (i.e., control), seeing as Mamdani ran as a Dem in the primary & won. See also: Obama winning his national primary to run for President. Referring to a faction w/i the Dem Party as the entire Party makes it difficult to fix things!
jul 8, 2025, 2:32 pm • 5 0 • view
It's a very powerful faction, the most powerful in fact.
jul 8, 2025, 2:34 pm • 1 0 • view
Agreed. But we can’t grapple with them if we throw the baby out w/ the bathwater, and Mamdani is now gathering considerable power for himself & his faction (DSA & adjacent folks). It is a Good Thing™ that Mamdani is winning, & being clear about how that works is how we can replicate his wins!
jul 8, 2025, 2:35 pm • 4 0 • view
I admire your optimism, but why did the Democrats line up in favor of Eric Adams when he won the primary but now they have "concerns" about Mamdani? Not trying to be antagonistic but this is gnawing at me 😊
jul 8, 2025, 2:37 pm • 0 0 • view
So your most serious opinion is that money and influence do not matter in politics? And elections occur in a binary where money and influence can only win or lose you an election rather than close gaps in voting results?
jul 8, 2025, 2:34 pm • 3 0 • view
See, the REAL members of the Democratic party aren't the elected politicians and staffers and officials. It's the fair-weather big money donors with no institutional role trying to force the party to do what they want via waving their money around who are the REAL Democrats.
jul 8, 2025, 4:31 pm • 1 0 • view
A+ sarcasm, would read again
jul 8, 2025, 7:41 pm • 0 0 • view
A number of prominent Republicans denounced Donald Trump in 2016 and yet by any meaningful analysis the Republican Party supported him
jul 8, 2025, 3:20 pm • 0 0 • view
None of those dudes have been railroaded, at all, at any time.
jul 8, 2025, 2:32 pm • 1 0 • view
Those three names don't have much in common. Mamdani is getting support from most of the important local Democratic institutions in NYC while his detractors are mostly pundits or political losers. Sanders simply lost a primary. Hogg maybe shouldn't have sought a DNC position if his goal was to 1/
jul 8, 2025, 2:24 pm • 23 0 • view
also use his outside PAC and platform to primary incumbents. He needed to choose one or the other. 2/2
jul 8, 2025, 2:24 pm • 14 0 • view
The devotion so many supposed progressives have for a grifter who went on Bill Maher to advocate that the party be more accepting of misogyny is wild to me. I'm so disappointed at the MAGA levels of lack of critical thinking from the side I thought was supposed to be better than that.
jul 8, 2025, 2:35 pm • 8 0 • view
It's just incoherent. If the complaint is that the DNC organized against Sanders in the 2016 and 2020 primaries, then folks should want a neutral DNC. If folks want the DNC to organize against incumbents, then they don't want a neutral DNC.
jul 8, 2025, 2:39 pm • 14 0 • view
You’re acknowledging the contradiction that already exists then. Weird how in that contradiction the more progressive end was the one getting fucked
jul 8, 2025, 2:40 pm • 1 0 • view
Yet Sanders was allowed to enter the primaries and perform well despite not being technically a Democrat. And progressive candidates win the nomination in progressive congressional districts on a regular basis. Progressives win when progressives vote in primaries. That's all there is to it.
jul 8, 2025, 2:49 pm • 7 0 • view
I don't actually accept the premise that the DNC organized against Sanders. I'm acknowledging that your own views are contradictory based on your premises. Sanders simply lost.
jul 8, 2025, 2:51 pm • 11 0 • view
If Americans want their republic to continue they need to figure out how to enhance this effect. Top-down hierarchy leads inevitably to fascism. Power should always come from the bottom. Money in politics inverts this.
jul 8, 2025, 2:50 pm • 0 0 • view
I think to those outside the GOP, The Party *seems* powerful, but I think that's more a factor of Republican voters being ideologically committed to fascism without caring too much about the particulars.
jul 8, 2025, 2:19 pm • 9 1 • view
would also point out that their powerlessness, whether or not by choice (take off tinfoil hat), can be enormously impactful/damaging (see NYS 2022 midterms)
jul 8, 2025, 2:30 pm • 0 0 • view
This is why calls from the left for a new workers party seem so unrealistic. Our particular system is just not conducive to that.
jul 9, 2025, 1:51 am • 0 0 • view
It drives me nuts how people don’t understand that Congress has really like 8+ parties in two trench coats.
jul 8, 2025, 2:23 pm • 3 0 • view
like how all the replies to this — "well what about the people who have to spend money to influence outcomes through informal means and can't rely on any mechanism of formal power or authority" — are just illustrations of the point
jul 8, 2025, 2:05 pm • 647 32 • view
They would be amazed at how a parliamentary party under proportional representation would deal with someone who refuses to toe the party line. Or refuses to resign after a scandal.
jul 8, 2025, 3:04 pm • 1 0 • view
You've put this well, as have Julia Azari in her long-running 'strong partisanship, weak parties' thesis and Scholzman's recent book 'The Hollow Parties.' Grasping the contradictory, slippery nature of our current party system is one of the hardee intellectual tasks out there!
jul 8, 2025, 2:14 pm • 4 0 • view
The main things I remember from studying American govt and consttn in 12th grade (in India, mind, not the US) - parties are incredibly permeable; it's a nation of small towns (well, that changed); a lot of politics happens through litigation.
jul 8, 2025, 2:13 pm • 6 0 • view
This is, still quite accurate! In MA for example, we don’t even have county governance, it’s 351 towns & cities, then state gov’t. Super messy & confusing!
jul 8, 2025, 2:23 pm • 7 0 • view
Labour Party apparatchiks looking at Dems with pity.
jul 8, 2025, 6:01 pm • 0 0 • view
very funny to me that the other chunk of replies are just people mechanically repeating their hostility for "the democrats" in ways that also illustrate the point i'm making about the amorphous and imprecise nature of american political parties
jul 8, 2025, 2:13 pm • 738 29 • view
Our political parties were once membership institutions and now they function a lot like NGO’s in the sense that they have a donor network to please and need to meet benchmarks or else answer some tough questions. The upshot of course is that donor sentiment matters MUCH more… until votes get cast.
jul 8, 2025, 5:37 pm • 1 0 • view
"The democrats" is such a weird characterization considering a person can just their head and look at the Republicans to see an actual example of a party that has organized itself around a central nucleus (Trump) where everyone falls in line and the smallest resistance gets a member excommunicated.
jul 8, 2025, 6:59 pm • 23 0 • view
Like it's just blatantly ridiculous to portray, like, Chuck Schumer as having that same level of power.
jul 8, 2025, 6:59 pm • 13 0 • view
Obama *kind of* had that but not to the same degree as Trump
jul 8, 2025, 7:01 pm • 2 0 • view
Obama used/uses his influence for big issues and top-level stuff. I don't remember him putting his thumb on the scale for local races. He'd be like, "I hope folks in New York remember to vote!"
jul 8, 2025, 7:08 pm • 26 0 • view
That’s a good point
jul 8, 2025, 7:15 pm • 4 0 • view
(But he would have been more effective if he had, and we could certainly do with him using his political sway to useful ends today as well)
jul 9, 2025, 7:35 am • 1 0 • view
Parties? The GOP is not a bit amorphous. It is totally under the stubby thumb Donald Trump. As for Mamdani’s party, the famous Will Rogers line was never more apt: “I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.”
jul 8, 2025, 4:00 pm • 3 0 • view
True about the Dems, but the Republican Party was transformed very easily from what it was 50 or 40 yrs ago to the maga-“sold your soul” party it is now. They would not elect a Reagan or Bush now. Whatever they thought they were didn’t stand up to the takeover of their party
jul 8, 2025, 5:41 pm • 2 0 • view
I think its because of Clinton's endorsement of Cuomo, as well as Gillibrand being loudly against Zohran. Still remember her being the one shouting that we can't block the budget.
jul 8, 2025, 6:44 pm • 1 0 • view
what I think is unreasonable is people acting like the Democrats are UNITING against Zohran no, they are mostly uniting around him but there are some majorly upsetting outliers
jul 8, 2025, 2:17 pm • 31 0 • view
He's a mayoral candidate
jul 8, 2025, 2:18 pm • 4 0 • view
of one of the biggest cities in America which is much more important and populated than many states, and the ones who haven't endorsed are prominent New York democrats
jul 8, 2025, 2:20 pm • 9 0 • view
and he's being openly attacked by name by Trump
jul 8, 2025, 2:20 pm • 6 0 • view
And you think a big endorsement party by Schumer's going to...what, get Trump to back off? Please be serious
jul 8, 2025, 2:22 pm • 1 0 • view
I think that Democrats should rally around their candidate I thought blue no matter who
jul 8, 2025, 2:23 pm • 2 0 • view
I guess they're just not inspired. Mamdani ought to have run on being something more than just Not Cuomo.
jul 8, 2025, 4:15 pm • 1 0 • view
Oh I think that too and so do a lot of other democrats. And upset at those who arent.
jul 8, 2025, 3:45 pm • 0 0 • view
None of the Dems who are "upsetting" you right bow endorsed Adams at this point in 2021, or de Blasio in 2013. This is a made-up outrage
jul 8, 2025, 2:23 pm • 8 0 • view
you're just mad that anyone would dare even mildly criticize the democratic party it's so annoying I even conceded the point that many people are vastly overblowing the pushback he's getting from the party but you pretending it's not there is just pathetic
jul 8, 2025, 2:25 pm • 11 0 • view
He's a grown man who hasn't been whining about it, I don't get why his fans do
jul 8, 2025, 2:21 pm • 0 0 • view
because people pretend that nobody in the democratic party is opposing him
jul 8, 2025, 2:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Sincerely—I might not understand what you’re talking about as I can’t tell if it is true or false. But I’ve always been under the impression that what we’re getting about ‘the Democrats’ is a lot of people that don’t know what they’re doing following people who say they do (but don’t). Cat herding.
jul 8, 2025, 3:21 pm • 0 0 • view
It's always the Will Rogers quote
jul 8, 2025, 2:19 pm • 1 0 • view
Rank choice voting feels like a little window into a multi-party America. I dig it. Shines a light on the lack of cohesion / control in a world where there are two options for 300m people - and makes the “go team, go!” folks have feelings, apparently.
jul 8, 2025, 2:28 pm • 4 0 • view
By “The Democrats,” many (if not not most) people mean Democratic leadership or “the old guard.” And they’d be right about Dem leadership & old guard hostility to Mamdani. It’s not erased by their slow & tepid endorsement. We see who they are. Anger from the base is a good for needed change.
jul 8, 2025, 2:21 pm • 6 0 • view
It’s not been as lockstep as people are making it out to be though, even when you look at the power centers. Tish James and Rodneyse Bichotte were on board the night of the primary (James was at the party iirc)
jul 8, 2025, 11:55 pm • 5 0 • view
So your parties are like provisional and situational focus points?
jul 8, 2025, 2:18 pm • 7 0 • view
yes!
jul 8, 2025, 2:18 pm • 21 0 • view
Brilliant!
jul 8, 2025, 2:21 pm • 1 0 • view
hoping for a non-fascist situational focus from across the pond
jul 8, 2025, 2:27 pm • 5 0 • view
(that also excercise quasi-government functions like election administration and power of appointment to state-level executive branch roles in some parts of the country)
jul 8, 2025, 2:20 pm • 4 0 • view
Power of nomination, not appointment as far as I know. And usually the states where parties have that power, party leadership is also elected during the primary.
jul 8, 2025, 2:46 pm • 1 0 • view
In many US states, parties have literally no power to nominate (as in, determine who is on the ballot under the name of their party).
jul 8, 2025, 3:52 pm • 2 0 • view
not so! www.electionreformers.org/articles/whi... & without doing a 50 state survey I can also say that I do not know of a state that elects party leadership that way but know several who do so at non-electoral, in-person conventions attended by delegates appointed by local party chapters
jul 8, 2025, 2:52 pm • 0 0 • view
In my state we vote on the leadership of the county level party and they then select the state level leader from amongst themselves.
jul 8, 2025, 3:01 pm • 1 0 • view
This is I think the best overview of the situation for a non-American (especially European) politics-head jwmason.org/slackwire/po...
jul 8, 2025, 3:24 pm • 3 0 • view
Oh I like that phrase “the amorphous and imprecise nature of American political parties” well said sir 🙌🏽
jul 8, 2025, 2:15 pm • 34 1 • view
they deserve it tbh
jul 8, 2025, 2:17 pm • 0 0 • view
Perhaps While the politicians we're referring to may not necessarily answer to a defined leadership hierarchy, they do tacitly answer to their donors/ lobbyists
jul 9, 2025, 12:08 am • 0 0 • view
As I said to Kevin Kruse yesterday, far too many people treat politics/parties like racial purity. If a single democrat does a thing it is treated like the entire party is. bsky.app/profile/juan...
jul 8, 2025, 8:57 pm • 7 0 • view
To rephrase your argument from another angle: If Dems at any level wanted to formally gatekeep for example DSA candidates, it would require the Dems to define themselves such that it would fundamentally change the structure in multiple unforeseeable ways.
jul 8, 2025, 2:38 pm • 4 0 • view
and would probably end up violating the law.
jul 8, 2025, 2:46 pm • 2 0 • view
would love it to be MORE amorphous! ranked-choice helps with that, but it should be the ONLY election, there's no need for silly party primaries.
jul 8, 2025, 2:31 pm • 2 0 • view
No one is more "The Democrats" then Rodneyse Bichotte chair of the Brooklyn Democratic Party and she lined up behind Mamdani. People talking like this are fools.
jul 8, 2025, 3:04 pm • 15 2 • view
Thanks for letting us outside of New York know.
jul 8, 2025, 3:42 pm • 3 0 • view
All that…and resentment is a powerful impulse
jul 8, 2025, 3:09 pm • 0 0 • view
But didn't you hear? The DNC picks our candidates. That's why Bernie lost, not because he is a mediocre communicator with limited popular appeal.
jul 8, 2025, 2:44 pm • 9 1 • view
...who isn't even a Democrat, just caucuses with rhem (usually).
jul 8, 2025, 3:16 pm • 5 0 • view
Feels like gaslighting… I’m not a NYer but when long lists of Dems & NYDem orgs lined up to endorse Cuomo I noticed. I may just be a low info Dem h8ing echo chamber dweller, but this gave the impression the Dem estbmnt wasn’t w him. My bad. I’ll try harder to notice how they line up now. All for 1!
jul 8, 2025, 11:23 pm • 1 0 • view
I feel like the perception that Democrats are only begrudgingly in Mamdani‘s favor is turning out to be a bigger boon to his campaigns than Establishment Dems would probably have hoped.
jul 8, 2025, 2:27 pm • 9 1 • view
I just want like, the civil engineers who studied road maintenance and city planning for 8 years to be the ones lobbying for road maintenance and city planning. Not... people with quant or tech money...
jul 8, 2025, 2:07 pm • 24 1 • view
I am reminded when Rahm was mayor here, Ken Griffin(Citadel) complained about speed bumps damaging his Italian car(Ferrari, Maserati?). Car was kept caged in a basement of Citadel bldg. I saw Rahm’s city SUV’s in alley of Citadel, on more than one occasion.
jul 8, 2025, 2:16 pm • 0 0 • view
They are, civil eng prof org and road builders are the main voice in this area
jul 8, 2025, 2:15 pm • 0 0 • view
I don't disagree, but I will say that in addition to that already happening, if you ask a civil engineer what the priority should be it will likely be physical infrastructure over almost anything else. If you ask an epidemiologist the NIH should be funded to the gills. A mathematician will insist
jul 8, 2025, 2:51 pm • 0 0 • view
that we need more investment in public education (that's me). An artist will tell you we need more money in the arts, and a doctor will tell you we need to fund healthcare better. All of these people are right, but there has to be someone who measures the tradeoffs and makes decisions.
jul 8, 2025, 2:51 pm • 1 0 • view
Not that being rich in tech qualifies you for any of these conversations (seems like they just want us to invest in AI and crypto, both of which seem to have little value other than pumping up tech people's bank accounts)
jul 8, 2025, 2:51 pm • 1 0 • view
Right, I acknowledge that there's a balance to everything. I think the frustrating part is how much of that scale is tipped towards "lower taxes for the very wealthy" and almost nothing in the other direction. Also, just the ideas in pol's heads should be influenced more by experts, not businessmen.
jul 8, 2025, 2:55 pm • 5 0 • view
Yes! It's as if the solution to every problem is to lower taxes and hope it works out for us (since the eighties at least).
jul 8, 2025, 3:01 pm • 0 0 • view
It's an abnormal political system that seemingly requires elites to squander *billions* on political participation, putting aside questions of what should be allowed
jul 8, 2025, 2:08 pm • 1 0 • view
I mean I feel like the way they've held control of the party for like 50 years is an illustration of the distinction between those and the formal means aren't that important.
jul 8, 2025, 2:09 pm • 2 0 • view
this doesn't feel very empirical
jul 8, 2025, 2:11 pm • 14 0 • view
I mean it's not, I don't know how you'd get empirical evidence about backrooms informal methods of control but i feel like it's clear who have been the controlling faction since Clinton at least.
jul 8, 2025, 2:17 pm • 0 0 • view
It’s useful to mind that it’s not control, but influence, that our political parties wield. Other than administering primary elections, they have no way to control who runs as a party member. You can simply register, satisfy your local or state ballot requirements, and run as a Dem or GOPer!
jul 8, 2025, 2:21 pm • 1 0 • view
That's very real and important! It's how we get control back! It's just also silly to use that to scold people for imprecisely talking about the faction that has wielded that influence for our whole lives.
jul 8, 2025, 2:25 pm • 1 0 • view
It is very real & important! But influence is not control. Control would be “Mamdani, you are not allowed to run as a Dem, bye bye”. Labour in the UK kicking out Corbyn is control. US political parties do not have control like that; they are open & anybody can become a member & run for office.
jul 8, 2025, 2:30 pm • 2 0 • view
This distinction is important b/c we can’t move forward & make change if we’re not clear-eyed about how the levers of power work.
jul 8, 2025, 2:30 pm • 2 0 • view
I agree with that! I think it's important for strategy. I just also think that's it's being used as obnoxious pedantry when people shorthand talking about the establishment (that's hopefully on the way out). I really appreciate Jamelle's work and think he's a great thinker and writer but this rubbed
jul 8, 2025, 3:02 pm • 1 0 • view
I don't think it's accurate to say that there has been a single faction in control for that period, unless you are very young. There is not a ton of continuity between 1993 Clintonworld and 2021 Bidenworld, at the very least
jul 8, 2025, 3:16 pm • 1 0 • view
Democratic politics doesn't have big coherent factions, it has a lot of smaller ones that form alliances of convenience and which are often substantially perturbed by the rise of successful politicians (Clinton, Obama)
jul 8, 2025, 3:17 pm • 1 0 • view
A feature of the bigger & bigger tent that is the post-Reagan Democratic Party, as the GOP has gotten more & more extreme.
jul 8, 2025, 7:43 pm • 0 0 • view
Absolutely, which is why Obama is still a senator from Illinois.
jul 8, 2025, 2:20 pm • 7 0 • view
Yeah they lost one because of the weakness of the party system that he's talking about. That's real. That doesn't make them not the dominant faction.
jul 8, 2025, 2:23 pm • 0 0 • view
Yeah but you keep stating that this thing exists, but there are all these data points against it, and you respond with “but it feels like this exists!”
jul 8, 2025, 2:27 pm • 3 0 • view
But in many cities, counties, states the parties are much more powerful. Look at how much power those local/state machines have had in New Jersey, for example and how it took “accepting gold bars as bribes” level corruption to dislodge Menendez
jul 8, 2025, 2:02 pm • 4 0 • view
ranked choice voting diminishes the power of the two corporately owned parties. Do you have that in Jersey?
jul 8, 2025, 2:10 pm • 1 0 • view
But I am reliably informed that the DNC is run by all-powerful Thanos.
jul 8, 2025, 3:13 pm • 3 0 • view
Do you have any good reading recommendations on this topic? I’d be interested in understanding the details so I can push back against the common idea that democrats tightly control who gets to be the nominee.
jul 8, 2025, 4:27 pm • 0 0 • view
Also means there’s no mechanism to displace a strongman like Trump when he takes hold…
jul 8, 2025, 2:06 pm • 3 0 • view
It's very hard to get my head around, as an European who's got an actual party membership! Sometimes, it's hard to see what the US parties even *are*!
jul 8, 2025, 7:03 pm • 0 0 • view
So, basically, “We the People” are difficult to rule. It’s like its a feature of our nation.
jul 8, 2025, 4:32 pm • 0 0 • view
The party can legitimately inflame critics with parliamentary maneuvering in the primary process. I get it but those party actors with access to those levers are also elected. You need to be involved earlier. Get your people into those positions and not just expect the path to clear for you.
jul 8, 2025, 3:35 pm • 1 0 • view
I harp on this a lot but it would take maybe a couple dozen people max to totally take over a local dem party and have real influence. Much easier path than standing up a totally new party and competing against the two entrenched parties.
jul 8, 2025, 3:37 pm • 1 0 • view
Yep, Obama was picked by the base, that primary was supposed to be Hillary's to win.
jul 8, 2025, 2:13 pm • 3 0 • view
they are more than just weak - the functionally can't exist the way people think they do: jwmason.org/slackwire/po...
jul 8, 2025, 2:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Strong party discipline is an odd thing for the left to demand in particular.
jul 8, 2025, 3:11 pm • 13 0 • view
you have to check out Shifty, which is about the dislocation of political power in the UK system, but the same ideas apply more broadly
jul 8, 2025, 1:55 pm • 3 0 • view
Do people not remember how much the GOP establishment hated Trump and how much that didn't matter because the base liked him?
jul 8, 2025, 1:59 pm • 45 0 • view
the Never Trump people got on board... I don't know about the Never Mamdani folks.
jul 8, 2025, 2:01 pm • 1 0 • view
those are the same people
jul 8, 2025, 2:02 pm • 18 0 • view
I do worry about the top down influence - we saw some powerful and wealthy people and orgs basically light money on fire to get another candidate out of the primary. That he won was in spite of some heavy established resistance, and that is still an issue we need to address.
jul 8, 2025, 2:00 pm • 7 0 • view
it was precisely this that let Trump win in 2016 (and Obama in 2008)
jul 8, 2025, 2:34 pm • 2 0 • view
True, but there is a bottom up control by DNC members who do not necessarily represent the opinions or interests of the greater party, but who affect the culture of the greater party to a huge degree. The activist - interest group - DNC pipeline is real, and people like that have unpopular opinions
jul 8, 2025, 2:00 pm • 0 0 • view
what kind of formal authority does the DNC wield, specifically?
jul 8, 2025, 2:04 pm • 16 0 • view
Bottom-up to me indicates a lack of formality, but they hold funding access, especially in local government. Unless you’re a really good fundraiser like Mamdani, most campaigns don’t even begin because they don’t have the money to do so. People entrenched in their local DNC get a cultural advantage.
jul 8, 2025, 5:17 pm • 0 0 • view
And I mean intra-party culture, not like traditional culture. Example: in my district (TX10), we ran Theresa Boisseau. She won the primary with 15K votes, number two had 6K. ~400K voted in the general Theresa is fine, she’s not a candidate that would ever win this district, it was blatantly obvious.
jul 8, 2025, 5:26 pm • 0 0 • view
And they will do everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, to prevent you from figuring this out. I've been yelling into the void, telling people to vote in all of their primaries for decades to no avail, but maybe this is finally the call to action people needed.
jul 8, 2025, 2:05 pm • 3 0 • view
How does this square with the success in pushing Biden off the ticket? Was that the party or just discrete members of it? When you say party, do you mean party officials or elected officials or activists?
jul 8, 2025, 3:15 pm • 0 0 • view
McCain-Feingold outlawed soft money and moved a bunch of the money and power outside the parties. Most of the campaign finance reforms have been to the detriment of parties and party discipline.
jul 8, 2025, 2:20 pm • 0 0 • view
Most people who imagine American parties as strong machines with top-down control also do not understand what the DNC is and imagine it some sort of string-pulling politburo that controls the party.
jul 8, 2025, 2:17 pm • 23 0 • view
jul 8, 2025, 2:17 pm • 0 0 • view
explains a lot of hostility to RCV bc it facilitates bottom-up coalition building; but should not discount the bevy of statutes and case law (and even some state constitutional provisions!) that explicitly empower Rs and Ds above third parties by name
jul 8, 2025, 1:57 pm • 7 0 • view
Yep, my statement about power being through conduct of elections definitely applies to things like FPTP voting. Party apparatuses are too weak to control member beliefs but election rules do self-preserve the 2 parties from 3rd party competition. At the same time ....
jul 8, 2025, 2:26 pm • 1 0 • view
..party weakness also makes it difficult for 3rd parties to have a coherent disciplined message that appeals to the disaffected and makes them subject to marginalization by opportunists. Buchanan-Reform in '00. Stein-Greens in '20/24. Libertarians quickly wasted all the momentum they gained in '16.
jul 8, 2025, 2:26 pm • 0 0 • view
what's next, a license to make toast in my own toaster? jokes aside, absolutely agree about that social dynamic - but technical ballot access can be just as difficult in some states that prohibit write-ins/require massive petitions/operate self-perpetuating last-election-minimum-vote requirements
jul 8, 2025, 2:41 pm • 0 0 • view
Third party complaints about ballot access have always been excuse making for being incredibly unpopular and/or lazy. We know this because there are states with even playing field for access and they’re complete non-entities who do no better
jul 8, 2025, 3:09 pm • 1 0 • view
I was talking about election and government systems but thank you for doing your job as a Democratic Party campaign hack correctly by declaring people who might consider voting for your bosses are lazy
jul 8, 2025, 3:37 pm • 0 0 • view
exhibit a: bsky.app/profile/back...
jul 8, 2025, 2:03 pm • 2 0 • view
I dunno, even an obvious crook like Cuomo managed to get a lot of votes. If the establishment had come together behind even a slightly less loathsome figure with the same force, they very well might have beaten ZM.
jul 8, 2025, 2:00 pm • 0 0 • view
everyone keeps replying with things that just reinforce the point i'm making
jul 8, 2025, 2:03 pm • 21 0 • view
As the late great political analyst, Mark Shields on PBS Newshour, put it “ Money is the mother’s milk” in political campaigns. Looks like in other policy circles too including places that conflict of interest apply
jul 8, 2025, 2:02 pm • 1 0 • view
I agree with you, but that's in fact the reason we're seeing it in NYC specifically! The NY Democratic party has long been extremely centrally controlled compared to every other state, so they're used to being able to make this play successfully e.g.: www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/n...
jul 8, 2025, 2:21 pm • 18 2 • view
RCV is one of the forces that has helped upend that central control for the first time in over a century. Another is Zohran himself, combined with his focus on a grassroots ground game, which is ~unprecedented (and which would have been impossible without the DSA)
jul 8, 2025, 2:22 pm • 17 1 • view
I like to point to the counterexample of Corbyn, who was kicked out of Labour by the party leadership. Meanwhile, the Democratic Party couldn't keep Sanders (who was barely even a member of the party) from being the runner up in the top primary twice.
jul 8, 2025, 2:23 pm • 3 0 • view
Yup. press.princeton.edu/books/hardco...
jul 8, 2025, 2:52 pm • 1 0 • view
US political parties are very democratic! sometimes this is good - other times, bad.
jul 8, 2025, 2:59 pm • 1 0 • view
The turnout of young voters for the NYC mayoral primary should be a blaring message to all Dem candidates that this guy is onto something.
jul 8, 2025, 1:50 pm • 7 1 • view
people are angry at "the establishment" and want it to be replaced with populism. Trump has been tapping into that for a decade now, while Democratic leadership desperately try to suppress it
jul 8, 2025, 1:48 pm • 0 0 • view
Question for you, and I’m asking seriously. Do you see democratic socialism as a populist movement (and thereby a discredited one)?
jul 8, 2025, 1:50 pm • 0 0 • view
It tends to be populist and is often discredited by conservatives and liberals. Populism isn't necessarily a negative thing. It can be wielded to do bad things like Trump or for popular policies like Mamdani ran on
jul 8, 2025, 3:24 pm • 0 0 • view
you're doing the thing!
jul 8, 2025, 1:48 pm • 22 0 • view
Because we can all observe it in action. We saw all the money pour into Cuomo's campaign. We see Times, Post, and Atlantic launder right-wing ideas as liberal positions. We have seen Trump succeed twice running a populist, anti-establishment campaign while dems lost.
jul 8, 2025, 3:22 pm • 0 0 • view
i keep thinking we need a multi party system (get rid of first past the post) to tamper down this obsession in the discourse. i dont see another structural way out.
jul 8, 2025, 1:50 pm • 4 0 • view
they're so nakedly opposed to him suggesting actual substantial policies to lower costs of living except they couch it in "hes anti israel". they are welcome to craft their pro-israel, lower-cost-of-living candidate of their dreams, but it seems like the more offensive attribute here is "socialist"
jul 8, 2025, 2:03 pm • 0 0 • view
Fear of Mamdani’s old rap music-Dem leaders haven’t evolved on Palestinian/Gaza issue. Left is anti-Israel gov’t but during campus protest some looked like Hamas sympathizers. Right & AIPAC accuse anyone criticizing Netanyahu Gov as antisemitic/pro-Hamas making Donors shy-it’s about Fear & Money
jul 8, 2025, 2:04 pm • 0 0 • view