Which #Phish S2 would you prefer in this era? Please note about how long you’ve been seeing the band with your answer. A) S2 of all bangers with solid but no spectacular jams (think Folsom 2) B) S2 with epic jam(s) but up & down setlist construction (see last night) C) Don’t care. It’s all good.
I am going to have to say d) all of the above? I can’t choose because I love them both. If they jam I want them to go somewhere…sometimes they can’t it to go anywhere. I also love the micro jams in a 10 min song lol. Plus I think it depends on my headspace too. 30 years 💃🏻💃🏻💃🏻
I only love A on a headful live, sometimes it can trick me that it’s the best show ever. Like Mondegreen nt 3 set 2. B is pinnacle live + you get to laugh at dumb stuff + it’s great with a headful or at home on couch tour and respins. B is what keeps them from becoming The Rolling Stones.
B.
within these parameters, im gonna have more fun with team a most nights. 31 years in. but, since 09, i've seen every co show and havent left co to see phish since fest 8. capped at 3-4 / yr, gimme well played bangers with good segues and a side of nostalgia vs up and down w/ songs i dont even know.
C for sure…been at this since 1992 and after going through the hiatus and the breakup, I’m just glad Trey got sober and we got the chance to see Phish 3.0 happen. This is hands down the best time to be a Phish fan…go out and enjoy every show…it’s a gift.
Indeed
This is a difficult question with lesser of two evils. If I had to choose between A&B, I’d much rather an B than a A. I mainly yearn for the jams that create new territory over everything else really.
A and 29 years, which means I’m old and there’s only so many shows so feed me the bangers
Had to come back to this after discussing with Brinkman. Thinking back to like 1995 (or really anytime pre-1997), there really was no such thing as a “perfect” Phish second set with all bangers and great setlist construction (with a few exceptions e.g. 12/14/95).
You hoped for (and of course in 1995 almost always got) some fantastic jams in the second set. But you also got some Fishman silliness/ HYHU etc. Walking out of a show in 95 the question was: did you get some great jams? Yes? Then it was a great show.
You’re equating Fishman silliness with something like Life Beyond the Dream taking a shit in the second set. Rejected logic.
If Life Beyond a Dream was a person…
We used to live in a world where an epic bonkers jam would land in a guy in a mum playing a vacuum and singing 1/2 of a Syd Barrett song. We used to have both things. We used to live in a SOCIETY.
And those shows were great. They were just a different kinda of great.
It's called PEAK
I find appalling the suggestion that a Fishman segment is the opposite end of a spectrum on which a Jam is most desirable.
Why not both? But if I had to choose between (a) and (b) I’ll go (b), every day. I’m there for the jams, man. (33 years)
And obviously 6/22/25 checks all the boxes even moreso than 6/20/25, even if Twist was my favorite jam of the run
6/22/25 fuckin ruled
First show 1990 Slight preference for B but I can enjoy either as long as it's not too many of A in a row B obv has more replay value in the highlights My wife's first phish show was 1992 and she'd prefer A every time as long as there's style variance in the smaller jams (not all just peaks)
I catch between 2-5 shows a year. First show was, ironically, 12/31/91. While I have always been C, I prefer B. My favorite years are still the 4 song second set shows. I know we are in the best years yet right now. Still… if they dropped a 1.5hr 4 song set, it would blow EVERYONE’s mind mind…..
In fairness, most of those great 4-5 song second sets were the holy grail of great jams and great setlist/flow.
Facts.
B>A, but really I'd (realistically) take a four night run with one A, one B, one meh show, and one all timer combining a classic, older-oriented setlist with a few bustouts & several long, creative jams. Bonus for true -> segues. First 4 of summer tour 24: meh, A, ~Classic, B. >160 shows seen.
C 1995
B / first show ‘93
Generally bring a C mentality to all shows, but if you’re saying I can menu select A or B, gimme B While A is more appealing to avoid energy lulls, B is what makes Phish stand apart. Seen enough disjointed “off” shows, if I can walk away with an epic moment, eureka First shows were Creek ‘97
If I’m doing two nights, one of each.
And I didn’t follow the directions the first time. First show 8.10.96. That’s what? 29 years?
Is voting still open? B 1996
Way late response but.. 26 years. And I am not a stat guy or song chaser. So B. But I’ll admit I am strongly trending toward A as the years go by
Back in the day it would have been B because there were so few songs that I had no interest in hearing. Now they have a ton of songs that I have no interest in hearing so it’s definitely A. First show ‘95.
First show 94, these days C. But if I have to get picky A over B
Folsom n2s2 was absolutely transcendent. I was levitating. A. Final answer. I’ve been seeing Phish since Fall ’97 (and listening since ‘95).
I strive to be C, predominantly lean B, but can get surprised and delighted by a good A. Which maybe means I’m getting closer to my goal of C. “Every show is a gift” is something my phish sensei @joshfink17.bsky.social lives by, and I strive for.
@chopaganda.bsky.social I am all about the flow - which songs played when are just as important as how well they play them - which comes more naturally with A.
I mentioned this before, but I'm not sure if it will show up via the bridge, but I used to be so clearly B. Now that I see a lot fewer Phish shows and there is so much more iffy material, I've caught myself being so much more in the A camp.
@chopaganda.bsky.social 💯
Follow up: Where does 6/22 II qualify on this scale because that’s my favorite set of the summer and it’s not very close.
Both. The holy grail.
B. I’ve heard enough Phish “bangers” that a set of “bangers” in 2025 doesn’t “bang” like I need them to “bang” to get me there. The selections in B have that chance.
Here since ‘96 (sorry forgot that part)
C - surrender to the flow First show 1991
Reminder, there is no answer which is D) Honker band
C. All Phish is good Phish, because they are awesome. 29 years in August
B without question. 30 years.
C) - been seeing them 33 years and in that time I’ve learned over time to ignore set lists and be in the moment at a show. This, coupled with dropping expectations at the door, has served me well. Mind you, playing well is all I care about when I walk into a show. What they play and for how long, eh
Prefer A but certainly don't mind B. Been seeing Phish 20 months longer than you
@chopaganda.bsky.social after Charleston N2 I was leaning A, but in the moment N3's Tweezer->Ghost was transcendent enough to wash away the lows*, so I guess I'm still a camp B jam chaser if I had to choose. Given the variance of latter-day Phish, a 2-night run with one of each may be ideal, and […]
first show '92. I'm definitely a C now, i find it's always better to go in with as few expectations as possible, especially in this era. I like the whimsy and fun of an A style set, sometimes a 2nd set of constant high-intensity jams can be exhausting, especially with CK5 unleashing hell
A. 33 years 🙂
Definitely C, which I know because I walk out of every show going, “Nice!! We got an A!” or “Woot!! We got a B!!” June ‘94
C, I'm just happy to be there. It's always been that way for me with shows, and not in a way that's exclusive to Phish. But I first saw them in '97 and went very hard for the next 5 years. Then I took a break after the hiatus and only saw them once, at MSG in '09, between 2004 and 2017.
1993 but i’ve seen most of my shows in 3.0. i like B or C. how but some serious bustouts and shenanigans. but i digress.
C Still chasing Tweezer. 2003
B, like Pitts. '94
If I'm only going to hit one show of a run, I would prefer A. For multiple nights, I would like at least one of each. First show 1995, but only getting to a decent number of shows since 2018.
The one where chop has to suck it up and admit it was incredible
The internet says this is in fact, the best answer.
I'm am A these days if choosing between A and B. But I am and always have been a C. 34 years in September. (Fuck. I'm old.)
This
I think my general attitude is C, but I get extra hyped when B presents itself….the extra feeling of witnessing something “special.” First show, spring 1994.
B although A is much rarer these days which makes it more special. B is the stuff that for my taste no one else on the planet can do to the level that they do it. That's why that's my answer. First show in 1993
As a related note, I have listened to the reading Disease *way* more times than I've listened to 10/20/13 II. Both that jam and that entire set were perfect for me in the room and both remain great. But the truly enormous musical peaks are what I come back to over and over again.
5-10 years ago, I was 'B'. No hesitation. I think I've evolved to prefer 'A' lately. Maybe it's the rarity? Maybe it's the massive influx of subpar material the last 10 years? Maybe it's bc even their best jams don't have the same kind of motifs like the Reading Disease that make me relisten 1000x?
it’s ok for your overall phrepherences to change, after all, it’s not like you’re suddenly going to stop sucking at the phish. Anyway what you describe in A above is like a 5/10 or 6/10 show on the SJCRPS whereas what you describe as B) may be a 7 or even possibly an 8/10 depending on the improv
While obviously not a representative sample, the thread responses favoring A, while .net front pagers' preference for (and occasional condescension regarding) B may explain the historical tension over reviews better than JadedNoobVet discourse. Just my $.01 🙂
yes, MAY explain, though in the metaphysically ever-expanding scheme of things, as we are all dust and light, your one cent is no lesser or greater than anyone’s two cents, and, therefore, consequently, you suck at the phish at least as much as @chopaganda.bsky.social and I suck at the phish.
We all equally suck at the phish, but phish itself varies widely and should be graded on a hard curve!! (Is a healthy & fun way to approach being critical TBF, even though I must bow down to your superior contributions to our community.)
You act like there used to be universal harmony around the SJCRPS. We (the “community”) would disagree more back then than we do now. There have always been “but the jams” show reviewers and “but the flow/setlist” reviewers. And then there was me who properly factored in both.
(?) lolz kinda true but there were people—on rmp at least and offline especially tapers—- factoring EVERYTHING into a “rating” of any kind back then, same as now and certainly before 1995 too. You can see the posts in google groups ffs. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you.
You are
I’m an A (20ish shows in 1.0) Back in the 90s I would have taken B no question because it was ok that a Went Gin was followed by an Uncle Penn. While I still enjoy the epic jams I’d take a set of bangers that max out at 10 min than a 40 min Golden Age followed by Sugar Shack
Many argue the Hampton Tweezer from 10/20 is a better singular jam than the Reading Disease. (not me)
Me. I am that person.
Of those choices, definitely A. Would really love all bangers AND spectacular jams…
C. My main criteria these days is (1) variety (either song choice or placement), (2) don’t mail it in (3) as little GOTF as possible. C fits nicely with those.
B - 3/13/92 first show . Jams are remembered
C, if flow/banger set isn’t 12 songs (think Folsom 2). 1999 first show.
B)
B) without a doubt. First show 1992. If I wanted vibes I'd go see goose
I’m gonna say mostly B but a little C is creeping in. 28yrs
B and C seem to be the most popular among the “vets”.
A if it's a one nighter, C if I'm on 3 night run. 22 yrs in general attendance bias and cognitive dissonance get me through shaky set lists
Excuse my lack of punctuation here 😬
I think I'd prefer A (going since 1994 but skipped 2009-16), but I've gotten enough "D - neither" second sets like this in 3.0/4.0 that I'm happy with A or B as long as it's good.
I’m just wondering, did you make a specific decision to stay away from Phish post-Breakup? And what brought you back?
I had moved on from Phish (I felt), didn't like the Joy-era songs, didn't really like the live shows that I heard. Bakers Dozen (the novelty of it and the playing) and Kasvot Vaxt (the best batch of new songs in 3.0, though I'm tired of them now) were what brought me back.
Prefer hot Phish. You’re under rating how good the playing was at Folsom 2, along with the killer set selection. Flow state. Disease was spectacular last night as was Sightless Escape. #hotphish Look at Columbus. Great looking set with 3 20 minute jams. Upon listen it’s basic std/avg. cuddlephish
On da big boat from ‘93 to infinity
Went to my first concert Friday in Charelston
Nice!!
Prefer A. 9 years.
I'm a C. 153 shows since '94. My cup is full. We live in a time where our favorite band is still here, exactly as they were when they started. Still F'n rockin & still have the desire to put out the best they can most nights. And after 30 years, I got my damn Rocky Top at Folsom. It's all magical.
Being at Columbus, there’s no better feeling than getting lost in a big jam but Trey has a special gift for sucking the energy out of the room. At the show, I’ll take flow. First show 9/22/00.
I prefer A, but that would depend on how epic the jam. Been seeing the band since 2014
C all day
B, 28 years (but how long one has seen the band should be irrelevant IMO). Give me a jam or two that I'm going to want to immediately listen to post show in the car or back at the hotel and I'm a happy camper. The peaks of the peaks are unparalleled in my Phish experience and are the ultimate rush.
The year was simply because I was curious if fans developed different perspectives over time. So you’re saying you’d rather have hit Columbus than Folsom2?
I'd lean more toward B, but it's not in a landslide. Would be very happy with an A too.
So would you rather have caught Folsom2 or C-bus? Those are very clear representations of A vs B. The reason I started this thread is I always considered myself a “B” jams guys. But I’m realizing in this age there is no way in hell I’d rather have been at Columbus than Folsom2 despite the highs.
In this instance, given how much I enjoyed Folsom2's second set versus personal song preference in Columbus, I'd take Folsom2. In general though, I think I'd lean toward B.
So what you’re saying is—when push comes to shove—that you’re a vibes guy. What if deep down inside, we are all vibes guys?
i lean B. big jams have replay value. i’ll rarely listen to whole shows more than 1x, so once i’ve heard it, the flow factor of A loses value quickly. any great tour is comprised of strong specimens of both A and B type shows. signed, a 1999 n00b.
i find this impossible to answer. like are we judging in the moment or the next day or a year later after many listens? take the 24 mexico run where the 2/23 cdt was amazing & ive listened to it 50 times but i like set 2 the night before 2/22 more as a whole. argh this is impossible man, cant do it!
I think the only fair way to answer is what would you want in the moment since we can all skip tracks on relisten. This isn’t a “how do you rank” question. It’s more personal preference if you’re going to the show or getting really into the webcast.
i guess in the moment i want to see phish create magic & that most often happens in jams, not in setlist construction. but a perfect set is almost more rare than an epic jam these days & pretty damn exhilarating in the moment. damn i guess im right back to impossible to answer or wait ugh am I a C?
Would prefer B probably, but in reality C has always been my approach.
Tend to think of myself as a B guy. Then I attend an A show and leave feeling much more fulfilled.
I'd much prefer to walk out of A having had 3 hours of straight fun than walk out of B wondering what the hell Trey is thinking sometimes. Although bitching about Phish is half the fun I also don't really have any issue with last night's setlist other than The Final Hurrah is just boring 1993
So no tasting the humidity huh?
More like faceplant into a rock
A if I’m seeing <3 shows a tour, B otherwise. Trying to mentally reside in C, however. 22 years for me.
Cop out answer but it really depends on the tentpole jam in your B scenario. Like, I’d take Boulder2 over last night - the Disease was great but didn’t hit me as *special*. But if it were a different monster jam from the year, I’d take that door. 39 shows // one 1.0, the rest Fall 18 and beyond.
I’m gonna say C Because if a Phish fan sees one show and it’s not to their liking, that’s as much user error as it is bad programming. The band knows the bulk of the fans are taking in more than one show so the shows are variable in their nature. One fan’s dud is another’s banger (often).
Right there with you, “user error”. Drop expectations and receive music. This isn’t hard to do.
Before it started costing $600+ ($900+ if lower level or floor) for a couple to see a weekend of shows, I'd be aligned on the bad programming. But this would just take us into a whole other philosophical discussion.
Fair. But you didn’t economics in your initial post. That said… to the programming: the floor has risen quite a bit since, say, 2014. Almost to the point of @cdirksen.bsky.social’s “average-great” being a thing again. Maybe “average-good”?
Full agree on the higher floor. I posted this previously but the band has really locked in a “little of this and a little of that” formula that makes a true flop of a show so rare these last few years.
guys guys this is a conversation for @hfpod.bsky.social or some shit, be careful generalizing when you’ve got a number of phish jamming songs being regularly performed these days that rarely achieve pre-3.0 Excellence (see eg Bowie, Stash, Antelope, etc), yet others routinely excel like Tweezer…
i think most of the disclaimers and caveats are implied cause we’re limited in characters. but yes. i know the frustration with antelope and bowie and others not returning to 1.0 glory while wave of hope gets 25 minute jams.
Bowie 😪
Stash is in better place than those other two imo
Mike, every time they start Bowie....
Hey maybe it’ll finally work out like Hampton!
SIGH
Columbus Antelope encore was a ton of fun the other night. Not comparing it to the monsters of the old days, but I personally enjoyed it in that spot more than I have in recent times. 5 minutes.
I don’t even want it to be a monster. I just want it to build/shift gears more. Maybe 12-15mins again?
I’m retired.
31 years, btw
D) mostly bangers with 1-2 spectacular jams, interspersed with Bustouts and banter.
A, 31 years
2013, probably B. But the more shows I see the more I lean to C because its become a social function as much as a music one and I have seen them a 3 digit number of times and like that has come with a certain "Okay, I like the menu and I've tried it all out" but I am still coming back to my spot.
C. 27 years
A. Give me a Folsom2 or 8/17/24 set 2 all day. The peak and valley shows kill me. 2016
C 32 years
I think it really depends what is surrounded by the huge jam in option B. Off the top of my head, I’d probably take something like 12/29/24 S2 (with the huge Ruby Waves) over Folsom2, but would prob go Folsom2 over Cbus, for example.
A
IF I intended to see them - which I do not since I can have shows that consist of solid bangers AND epic jams by seeing Another Band instead - I would choose A. It was far too many of B + a decade of mediocre songs + endless chomping, that made it no longer worth the money/time/travel/hope.
I'm a C guy.
I lean a fuzz B as well
C, always & forever. It’s always been about the band doing what makes them happy. We are so damn lucky to have them still playing, playing new music & w/new technologies. Are there moments it doesn’t come together? Yes? Does Trey need a Countryman? Yes. But I’m C all day every day 31 years +2 days
I try to be C but sometimes I let myself down
Probably A for me. I’m all about flow for second sets. Love it when there is just a run of tunes that jam yet also bend seamlessly into one another First show 92
I generally align with (C)…BUT for the sake of online phish debates, gimme (A) every damn time. All gas, no brakes LFG!!! First show 2000
A, 1993