I see Dark Ages trutherism is still a thing so here are a few thoughts on why the label ‘Dark Ages’ is not useful and why indeed it might well (a nice paradox) obscure that which it seeks to illuminate.
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Thanks for the post. We medievalists have harped on this for decades, so it's good to have a non-medievalist repeat it. It was Petrarch, not Plutarch, who popularized the idea of a "Dark Age", in several works ca.1330. I have a chapter on this topic in my book The Middle Ages: Facts and Fictions.
aug 28, 2025, 12:21 pm • 6 0 • view
It will probably surprise no-one to learn that the term *Dark Age* (saeculum obscurum) is a Renaissance coinage and was originally used to refer to the period in the 10th century when The Papacy was notoriously weak and corrupt.
aug 28, 2025, 9:56 am • 11 0 • view
A period also rather drolly called The Pornocracy (rule of harlots).
aug 28, 2025, 9:58 am • 4 0 • view
Firstly, if we are talking in the main about Western Europe, it’s obviously ludicrous to argue that the early medieval period was some kinda bed of roses and suggest it was some kinda glorious period of civilisational development.
aug 28, 2025, 9:41 am • 50 3 • view
No one remotely serious holds this view - it is a caricature of what people actually think.
aug 28, 2025, 9:43 am • 38 2 • view
Let’s begin with the two most obvious points. 1. Substantial parts of the world had a rather different experience of this period 2. The label itself is a gross generalisation- ie lots of interesting / illuminating things did occur in the period* * Eg go read Alfred’s translation of Boethius
aug 28, 2025, 9:45 am • 39 1 • view
If we go forward a millenia from today, and look at how knowledge is stored, would today with its reliance of non physical storage not potentially be another dark ages. A lack of evidence of knowledge doesn’t necessarily mean a lack of knowledge.
aug 28, 2025, 10:09 am • 2 0 • view
If you excuse the overly misused idiom, I find this response rather ludditish... Electronic storage is just as, if not more, resilient to time that cellulose wood pulp. The magnetic or optical storage media, unless adversely interfered with is persistent. Your texts, IMs, SM posts etc. are all safe
aug 28, 2025, 10:21 am • 0 0 • view
Firstly assuming you can read them. Electronic storage exists on media that can easily be corrupted. SSDs aren’t that durable for example. Consider the effort needed to translate paper. How easily could you reconstruct meaning from a silicon wafer.
aug 28, 2025, 10:36 am • 1 0 • view
While I _sort_ of agree. I have data on a CBM-DOS 5.25" floppy drive and a load of Ami Pro documents stored on an iomega zip drive. Reading this today presents significant challenges. Reading them in 10 years might not be possible. I had data on a Geocities site. It no longer exists.
aug 28, 2025, 1:05 pm • 1 0 • view
There are also two more subtle points. The label ‘Dark Ages’ was applied (generally speaking) substantially post the period described. The earliest known reference is generally attributed to Plutarch (1330s) although I can’t find the original source which is perhaps telling us something…
aug 28, 2025, 9:55 am • 43 1 • view
In any case, the term ‘Dark Ages’ is in the first place an example of historiography (ie the writing of history) vs the history of the period referred to. In other words, consider the label as not about what actually happened but how subsequently people thought about what happened.
aug 28, 2025, 9:57 am • 54 3 • view
This is a subtle but important distinction - if you want to have a view about what happened in idk 8th century England then go study what happened in 8th century England va relying on a label from an entirely different period.
aug 28, 2025, 9:59 am • 39 3 • view
The second point is to do with the use of metaphor in academic discourse. ‘Dark’ is a metaphor - obviously there was nothing especially physically dark about the period. * * Anyone replying with candle production/ electricity etc style comments will be summarily blocked
aug 28, 2025, 10:01 am • 56 1 • view
What do we mean by dark? Do we mean a lack of source material? Do we mean something about intellectualism? Do we mean something about classical civilisation? Do we mean something about life being no fun at all? Or whatever etc etc etc
aug 28, 2025, 10:08 am • 27 1 • view
Isn't it a shorthand for all of those? Surely one reason why the phrase has survived 700 years or so is - at least within the context of Western Europe - it captures something of that essence (even if not at all to academic standards). That it dates from the proto-Renaissance is itself noteworthy?
aug 28, 2025, 10:30 am • 1 0 • view
The point is that the metaphor (dark) is itself extremely unclear! Metaphors are a vital part of communication but they both explain and obscure *at the same time*.
aug 28, 2025, 10:08 am • 36 2 • view
Hmm My understanding of the term 'the dark ages' has always been about the lack of written records (partly due to the -itself recorded- downfall of Roman authority) and historians often having to rely more on archaeological findings rather than written records. I'll be shocked if this is disputed.
aug 28, 2025, 10:30 am • 1 0 • view
The entire purpose of academic discourse is to explain - to make less obscure, to illuminate. Metaphorical language such as the ‘Dark Ages’ does the opposite. / fades to darkness
aug 28, 2025, 10:09 am • 45 4 • view
I was always taught/read that that period was named the Dark Ages because of the lack of source material and how little we knew of it. That isn't true to the same degree these days. It's not only western Europe that has a period named the Dark Ages - it also is applied to a period in
aug 28, 2025, 10:16 am • 2 0 • view
Do you know the earliest example of it being used to describe the post-Mycenaean period in Greece?
aug 28, 2025, 10:00 am • 1 0 • view
The (significantly) later volume of his "Parallel Lives"?
aug 28, 2025, 1:35 pm • 1 0 • view
Plutarch?
aug 28, 2025, 9:57 am • 1 0 • view
Toto?
aug 28, 2025, 3:55 pm • 0 0 • view
Petrarch?
aug 28, 2025, 9:57 am • 5 0 • view
Stupid / pedantic question: is Spain in Western Europe?
aug 28, 2025, 3:53 pm • 0 0 • view
Not at all. Soain does not at all fit in the dark ages framing.
aug 28, 2025, 3:55 pm • 1 0 • view
Right, that's what I thought (in terms of eg Cordoba). But I was wondering whether the subtweetee in question would say "Spain isn't Western Europe"? I'm not sure how the term is usually used. But it's definitely in Europe, and quite far west...
aug 28, 2025, 4:00 pm • 1 0 • view
Greece, presumably?
aug 28, 2025, 10:00 am • 0 0 • view
Never use the term "Dark Ages" myself, but fail to see the value judgment it should imply. Isn't it roughly 5th to 10th century Western Europe? A time of frequent warfare and collapsing urban life after the end of the Western Roman Empire. So it is "dark" compared to the preceding classical era?
aug 28, 2025, 10:37 am • 2 0 • view
That "end of the Western Roman empire" is part of the problem. The people of the time did not think the empire had ended, and the Holy Roman Empire was still kicking around the best part of one and half millennia later dubiously claiming lineage.
aug 28, 2025, 10:51 am • 6 0 • view
The invention of "The Fall of The Roman Empire* is an interesting topic. Possibly a consequence of the increasing cultural assimilation of The Byzantine Empire by Italy.
aug 28, 2025, 12:05 pm • 2 0 • view
This gets over stated quite a bit imo. Yes, Rome was doing fine (ish) in the east. But undoubtedly it did lose a lot in the west. The fall of the western empire was a big deal for Europe. Maybe withdrawal or shrinkage or so of the roman empire would be better?
aug 28, 2025, 8:57 pm • 0 0 • view
I'd had the impression that in the "Dark Ages" at least the manuscripts were Illuminated!
aug 28, 2025, 1:25 pm • 3 0 • view
Personally, I have no problem applying the label to Britain from about 440 to about 500. Not very much documentation or even archaeology to clarify what happened to make South Prydain into Engla-lond. Beyond that, however...
aug 28, 2025, 1:41 pm • 2 0 • view
I’ve always thought the achievements of the Visigoths and Ostrogoths are disregarded - they actually did quite a lot, while you just have to go to Granada or Cordova to see evidence of the great Islamic civilisations
aug 28, 2025, 10:23 am • 16 1 • view
Ancient Islam is very under-rated for science: Maths Medicine Astronomy
aug 28, 2025, 6:21 pm • 2 0 • view
And closer to home we have some magnificent texts…
aug 28, 2025, 11:04 am • 0 0 • view
Sadly we don't know much about The Visigoths except for *Visigothic Law*. They lacked historians.
aug 28, 2025, 11:56 am • 1 0 • view
It's always gonna floor me how much we've lost in humanity. You can be a civilization for thousands of years but remain entirely unknown outside of it until you encounter another civilization that actually writes things down.
aug 28, 2025, 1:17 pm • 5 0 • view
Think of all the Natufian artists and thinkers whose names have not come down to us because writing hadn't yet been invented!
aug 28, 2025, 1:22 pm • 2 0 • view
Most of human history is unwritten.
aug 28, 2025, 5:58 pm • 1 0 • view
It is Classicist snobbery!
aug 28, 2025, 9:59 am • 6 0 • view
*The Age of non - Ciceronian Prose.* (I can see why it didn't catch on).
aug 28, 2025, 10:16 am • 4 0 • view
Of course you are right. But I think we can also appreciate how earlier periods understood what we lost after 410 - and the more we learn about the Romans the more we realise it ourselves. (I know it’s only a YouTube video, but for the purposes of illustration:) youtu.be/boTUOgka3LA?...
aug 28, 2025, 11:45 am • 2 0 • view