I've been confused about this for a while myself, although charge stations at truck stops are becoming more of a thing, which makes sense because the amenities are already there
Replies
The short answer is that a Solar + Battery solution struggles to deliver enough power to fast-charge economically, especially at scale. To do that you need to have something akin to industrial supply, which remote fuel stations won't have.
sep 1, 2025, 2:20 am • 16 1 • view
Yeah, but 20-30 minutes to charge versus 2-3 minutes for gas. It's like the arcades of the 80s where it turned out 25 cents per game did not end up being able to pay rent.
sep 1, 2025, 6:13 pm • 1 0 • view
Batteries. The amount of solar panels, and the batteries to hold the energy for the cars, is pretty huge and expensive.
sep 1, 2025, 2:27 am • 1 0 • view
There are probably reasons why it wouldn't work, but I've often thought there could be a battery exchange, where you roll up and your car gets lifted and the battery pack in the bottom gets swapped out, just like with a toy car. It would only take a couple of minutes.
sep 1, 2025, 7:28 am • 0 0 • view
Someone did try. It didn't work. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_...
sep 1, 2025, 9:13 am • 0 0 • view
Just got back from a road trip. Most of my charging was done at Allsup’s, a local gas station chain, that has started putting a couple chargers behind their stores. We easily dropped $60 on food across multiple stops, not to mention paying for the charge.
sep 1, 2025, 4:52 am • 2 0 • view
In Germany, electric vehicle charging stations at gas stations is common. Highway locations often have a lot of charger infrastructure connected to the power grid. Residential areas frequently see the upgrade of street-side parking with chargers.
sep 1, 2025, 6:04 am • 2 0 • view
This feels like a thing a *functional* government could incentivize rural gas stations to do. Help expand electric charger access in the less populated areas and also get them started on the path of continuing to exist in more or less the same way after a critical mass of cars are electric.
sep 1, 2025, 2:17 am • 11 1 • view
This should just be a thing that Exxon and Shell are paying for.
sep 1, 2025, 2:20 am • 11 0 • view
That's what I was thinking. Whatever company's fuel the station sells should be incentivized to supply at least 1 charging station per 4 pumps, no? Then 2 and so on until they replace pumps altogether.
sep 1, 2025, 3:16 am • 3 0 • view
The ones that are branded the same as the oil companies should be, just like the oil companies should be investing in solar and wind. Never believe anybody who says capitalism is rational.
sep 1, 2025, 3:33 am • 5 0 • view
What we RRALLY should be doing is having hot swappable batteries. Pull into a gas station, the battery is removed and replaced with another one, and you drive off while the old battery charges for someone in an hour. (Issues with verifying battery integrity, weight of batteries, etc, but not bad)
sep 1, 2025, 2:17 am • 1 0 • view
There is a Chinese manufacturer that does that. youtu.be/aBdQQxgxDrY?... in Germany I have seen it.
sep 1, 2025, 2:27 am • 0 0 • view
In the PNW, a lot of the Fred Meyer (Kroger) grocery stores near Interstate 5 have fast chargers. We plug in, go inside, get a coffee, a snack, and a bathroom break, and voila, our car is finished. They understand how to do it. Nice, well-lit, busy parking lot. Love it. Do Kroger in OH do the same?
sep 1, 2025, 2:42 am • 0 0 • view
They don’t have the space for the resulting line of people waiting for the chargers. This is why a lot are going up in mall parking lots. When we drive from the SF Bay Area to Tahoe, we stop at a mall, eat and use the restrooms while the charging happens.
sep 1, 2025, 4:42 pm • 0 0 • view
It’s making your mission statement providing fuel instead of gas/diesel.
sep 1, 2025, 2:31 am • 0 0 • view
A gas "fill-up" takes 3 minutes if you swipe a card, 10 minutes if you get a soda and pay cash inside. A "rapid charge" takes 30-90 minutes. Might that 'drive' more business into yout soda/chip store? Maybe? But that's a lot of infrastructure to "fill-up" a dizen cars a day.
sep 1, 2025, 2:22 am • 0 0 • view
It depends on the charger; with an ultra-rapid 350kW charging station you can be at 80% within 15 minutes, and that's from near-empty (80% charge when fast charging is usually the aim point, for battery longevity reasons). But those chargers need substantial industrial power supply.
sep 1, 2025, 2:27 am • 0 0 • view
While some cars and chargers are slower than others, my average charging stop is about 13 minutes. At a fast charger, my car will go from 10% to 80% (where most people stop charging) in 20 minutes.
sep 1, 2025, 2:26 am • 6 0 • view
Don't spread misinformation. Nearly 0 to 80% is at most 30 mins in a worst case scenario. Like sub freezing temperatures, no preconditioning, and below average charger speed. My average is ~15.
sep 1, 2025, 2:38 am • 0 0 • view
It also would provide charging for those who are renters and can’t install a charger.
sep 1, 2025, 3:21 pm • 0 0 • view
Gas station franchises often don’t control their land or infrastructure. Decisions sit with oil companies or landlords. That slows down adoption compared to independent truck stops.
sep 1, 2025, 2:37 am • 7 1 • view
And it's possible to entertain oneself at a truck stop for 20-30 minutes if necessary.
sep 1, 2025, 2:15 am • 1 0 • view
Shell is getting in on it... www.shell.ca/en_ca/driver...
sep 1, 2025, 2:20 am • 7 0 • view
Buccee's got 'em. Hell even grocery stores have them now.
sep 1, 2025, 1:03 pm • 0 0 • view
The mall near me has charge stations that are Shell branded, though I'm not sure if I've seen them at an actual shell
sep 1, 2025, 5:22 am • 0 0 • view
Because of cost-benefit. It's not even remotely there. People saying otherwise are absolutely delusional. To not have someone taking up that spot for 2+ hours, you need more solar footprint than the entire gas station and then some. PLUS you'd need grid PLUS maintenance PLUS installation...
sep 1, 2025, 2:33 am • 0 0 • view
I talked about it with a gas station owner I see regularly. He can't add a charging space because then he needs another parking spot (zoning,) a power service upgrade, a large transformer, etc. Over $150k in cost. Without solar. Most stations don't have anywhere near that cash.
sep 1, 2025, 2:40 am • 1 0 • view
And that's not even factoring charging for it. They're not set up for it. "Well just ho-" IF you can get one of the 'networks' to agree to it? You eat all the power setup costs, all the building costs, maintenance and repairs are at their whim, and you only get a fixed payment.
sep 1, 2025, 2:53 am • 1 0 • view
Probably because of their contract with the company which supplies their gasoline
sep 1, 2025, 2:20 am • 1 0 • view
Buccees has this down. Charge stations and enough square footage inside to keep you occupied while it charges
sep 1, 2025, 2:29 pm • 0 0 • view
This is the norm in Norway, and has been for years. I know, I know — «but Norway is an outlier, taxes, socialist hellhole yada yada» — no, these are private companies pivoting to offering EV charging alongside gasoline/diesel because that’s what the market demands.
sep 1, 2025, 7:59 am • 7 0 • view
They are trying to do a similar thing in Europe. The stations love it because gasoline is a very low margin business and the amenities and snacks in the station are high margin. Someone waiting 20 minutes is more profitable. But even there they have trouble getting the grid access necessary.
sep 1, 2025, 2:55 am • 1 0 • view
Why the EV’s don’t have replaceable batteries? Instead of charging them we just change for charged ones.
sep 1, 2025, 8:33 am • 0 0 • view
EV batteries aren’t cheap commodity items like, say, propane tanks. The batteries are a large portion of the value of the car, and they have a lot of electronic hardware and software embedded. Even if they were standardized, a swap program would be complicated and expensive to run.
sep 1, 2025, 2:31 pm • 2 0 • view
The place where the power is, the actual cells are almost all the same. The major problem is that automakers use them as part of the chassis.
sep 1, 2025, 2:44 pm • 0 0 • view
You’re still talking about trading in a ~$10k battery pack to get ~$100 in electricity. There would be incentives on all sides to play games related to the condition of the batteries.
sep 1, 2025, 3:04 pm • 1 0 • view
I’m just talking about the consumer been able to travel between places without the need to stop every 300 miles to recharge the car and wait 30 or more minutes. Like we do with our fuel cars.
sep 1, 2025, 3:33 pm • 0 0 • view
I get that. I just think the cost of the batteries, and the fact that they degrade, makes it unworkable. If you had a new EV with 300-mile range, would you swap the battery, and maybe get one that will last less than 50? I wouldn’t, and that would lead to the battery pool getting worse and worse.
sep 1, 2025, 4:56 pm • 1 0 • view
There should also be chargers at places where people tend to spend 20-30min (extra-fast charging) or a couple of hours (regular fast charging). Restaurants, libraries, shopping malls (our crappy mall has a bunch of Tesla chargers which is a start). We have charging stations at the boardwalk (1/2)
sep 1, 2025, 4:29 pm • 1 0 • view
...& the next block over from the plaza & shops in our neighboring town. This should be the norm, but in lots of spots around town. Gas stations & rest areas make the most sense along the highway *for now*, but better if you have something enjoyable to do while you charge (2/2)
sep 1, 2025, 4:34 pm • 0 0 • view
I'd bet good money the oil companies who own the gas stations would see it as conceding ground to what they perceive as their biggest competitor/threat, and won't allow it.
sep 1, 2025, 3:11 am • 0 0 • view
I have wondered that about restaurants, especially ones right off of freeways. Put chargers in your parking lots. People can come in and eat while their cars charge. Double the profits.
sep 1, 2025, 4:44 pm • 0 0 • view
You need a lot more than a solar panel for a charging station, though. I am happy that more gas stations are installing high speed chargers, though. It makes my life a lot easier.
sep 1, 2025, 2:14 am • 18 0 • view
In the UK there is the concept of a "service station" which is a gas station, a restaurant, a bunch of shops, in an organised blob of shops and parking etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorwa... For some reason the US doesn't really have that except informally when Starbucks opens next to a gas station.
sep 1, 2025, 3:52 am • 0 0 • view
Bizarrely good tour of a standard UK service station, which is also a parody of a late-70s sci-fi series: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Euk...
sep 1, 2025, 4:05 am • 1 0 • view
The US equivalent would be a "truck stop," I'd think? They tend to cater more to long-haul truckers than passenger vehicles. Spaced farther out, though, and fewer regulations on them than the UK has for motorway services. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_s...
sep 1, 2025, 4:59 am • 1 0 • view
some roads do have service stations. like the turnpike in Florida has one every so many miles, and are exactly as you described. I remember stopping at one as a kid and getting a wax dinosaur figure from a vending machine, that was hot as hell when it came out. (it made them in the machine)
sep 1, 2025, 5:37 am • 1 0 • view
You aren't rural enough. Buc-ee's is seriously amazing in the more rural states. It's like a Super Store inside buc-ees.com/about/
sep 1, 2025, 3:58 am • 1 0 • view
I stopped at one on the way home from Texas and it was incredible. Clean bathrooms, good hot food, limitless options. Wish we had them up here in Illinois.
sep 1, 2025, 3:59 am • 2 0 • view
Ontario Canada has ONRoute stops along the major highways. Essential. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ONroute
sep 1, 2025, 4:05 am • 1 0 • view
"throw up a solar panel" vastly underestimates how much power goes into electric vehicles. A 3'x6' panel generates <500 watts an hour. 12 hours of perfect sun gets you 6kW a day. Which is about 5% charge on the f-150 lightning. Most busy charging stations are pulling > 1MW almost continuously...
sep 1, 2025, 7:38 am • 3 0 • view
It’s about the real estate footprint required. Most of the areas I’ve lived, the gas stations do not have room for a long row of parked cars. Truck stops already have the large parking footprint, but most standard gas stations do not.
sep 1, 2025, 3:55 am • 0 0 • view
Big oil will force us at gunpoint to buy gasoline.
sep 1, 2025, 2:16 am • 2 0 • view
Driving across the southwest I was struck by how many abandoned stations could be revitalized as part of a charging network.
sep 1, 2025, 1:04 pm • 1 0 • view
There was a program to develop charging stations at stops like that, which the Trump administration stopped earlier this years. The last news report I heard was that it was reinstated. Five billion. www.boisestatepublicradio.org/2025-08-27/t...
sep 1, 2025, 2:23 am • 1 1 • view
I think this EVERY TIME I drive past a gas station with a huge asphalt apron that no one is using. It’s insane.
sep 1, 2025, 2:53 am • 0 0 • view
Hell, one of the DMV's in San Diego has one made to look like a radar gun that's entirely solar powered.
sep 1, 2025, 2:29 am • 0 0 • view
Its more common to see a gas station with an electric charger than without, in my area, by far. The only ones that dont have that are either on a really small plot or very rural. (Mom and pop general store w/ 1 pump situation).
sep 1, 2025, 1:01 pm • 0 0 • view
Here in British Columbia we have a extensive EV charging network, from public (BC Hydro) to suppliers like Flo, Chargepoint and gas station chains like Chevron and Petrocan. But the provincial government started the ball rolling by heavily promoting EV purchases-up to 20% of all new purchases.
sep 1, 2025, 4:26 am • 0 0 • view
Does anyone even want an electric car if suddenly you don't have an excuse to stop and get beef jerky?
sep 1, 2025, 3:12 am • 0 0 • view
Last year I did a cross country trip (MD to AZ) in an EV. Almost every charger I stopped at was at, or a half block walk from a gas station.
sep 1, 2025, 5:32 am • 0 0 • view
Basically any location with some available space and maybe grid access can set up a charging station. Why set them up at gas stations in particular? One thing you want out of charging stations is to be near things to do while you wait, which gas stations often aren't.
sep 1, 2025, 4:28 am • 0 0 • view
Short answer: The infrastructure required to have an effective charging station is probably worth more than the gas station's equipment.
sep 1, 2025, 2:21 am • 3 0 • view
I keep thinking EV charging will see the resurgence of the roadside attraction. Spend 40 minutes being dubiously entertained while your car gets ready for the next leg of the journey.
sep 1, 2025, 2:40 am • 1 0 • view
Many stations are installing chargers, especially in new builds of major chains. It can require increased electric service - additional or larger transformers. In 5 years, our central Virginia area has seen 30 new charging stations installed in a 10 mile radius. Infrastructure takes time and money.
sep 1, 2025, 3:02 pm • 1 0 • view
I don't get why the cars themselves don't have solar panels, kinetic generators on the axels, and/or small wind turbines (the cylinder ones are actually pretty low profile and almost no drag) to help top off the charge. even a panel on the roof could help.
sep 1, 2025, 5:19 am • 0 0 • view
As for solar, while you’re not breaking fundamental laws of physics and proposing a perpetual motion machine, peak surface irradiance is only about 1kW/m3. Clouds and increasing latitude will reduce that dramatically, and the most efficient solar panels are only 47% efficient.
sep 1, 2025, 7:03 am • 0 0 • view
well, the point isn't to create enough power to run the car, or even to charge the battery faster than it draws energy (dunno where you got that idea). just to have a stream of power flowing in to add to the current charge. think of it more like having a battery pack plugged into your phone.
sep 1, 2025, 9:06 am • 0 0 • view
If they worked, your "kinetic generator" and "wind turbine" ideas would literally be perpetual motion machines. My 13yo child spotted that; I'd expect most middle school students to do likewise. 1/
sep 1, 2025, 9:46 am • 1 0 • view
Re: solar, average daily GHI for the US is about 5kWh/m3. Using a Tesla Model S Long Range (100kWh battery) as an example, and assuming 2m3 solar panels that are 25% efficient (a typical value) yields only 2.5% charge per day. In Europe, 1.5%/day would be more typical, and highly seasonal. 2/
sep 1, 2025, 9:46 am • 0 0 • view
For that, you'd have a heavier vehicle (which would offset any gains in range due to increased rolling friction) and increased cost (not least due to the custom solar panels needed to conform the shape of the car roof with increasing drag). 3/
sep 1, 2025, 9:46 am • 0 0 • view
To answer your original statement ("I don't get why the cars themselves don't have..."), the reason is that your understanding of the underlying physics and economics is poor. 4/4
sep 1, 2025, 9:46 am • 1 0 • view
thats not perpetual motion.
sep 1, 2025, 10:13 am • 0 0 • view
Kinetic energy generator = the motor/regenative breaking. The wind thing would need to be stowed when you drive since the loss to drag is greater then the energy produced. The solar panel will probably get you less than a mile a day, unless it to was deployable and covered a large area.
sep 1, 2025, 8:39 pm • 0 0 • view
and the range wouldn't be reduced because the weight and drag would be minimal. as well the solar panel would still be working while the car is idle or parked. you have a ton of unused surface area, no harm in putting it to good use.
sep 1, 2025, 9:11 am • 0 0 • view
I think that you need to understand the law of conservation of energy. Putting a wind turbine on your car will reduce its range. Regenerative braking is normal for EVs (i.e. recovering energy that would otherwise be lost as heat when braking), but a generator would otherwise reduce your range.
sep 1, 2025, 6:56 am • 1 0 • view
You're starting to see them a bit in Colorado. Gov Polis had a whole initiative to fund them and they are at quite a few gas stations in mountain towns now.
sep 1, 2025, 2:57 am • 0 0 • view
In California, some gas stations have installed charging stations as have grocery stores, libraries, public buildings, parking garages, and rest areas
sep 1, 2025, 3:00 am • 1 0 • view
A DC fast charger requires between 50 and 350kW per charger. 200kW of solar panels requires around 10k-20k sqft. The energy density from solar isn't really good enough to make it work on a small lot like most suburban gas stations. Now one of those big truck stops might pencil out ...
sep 1, 2025, 2:44 am • 6 0 • view
Solar can be tricky in some rural areas, which is why I think the rooftop solar is not going to cut it for rural, wooded areas. Our back roads go between mountains in VT so between the woods and shade of mtns, rooftop wouldnt do. The mom & pops would need a lot of support to offer it.
sep 1, 2025, 1:05 pm • 1 0 • view
Mountains don't shade that much. I'm west of Denver in the foothills of the Rockies. We still have plenty of availability for solar. Trees are definitely a potential problem. Using a SunEye or similar to measure annual sunlight availability should always be Step 1.
sep 1, 2025, 1:14 pm • 1 0 • view
Dry camping here with solar panels is ineffective in most places unless youre north near the border where it flattens out significantly.
sep 1, 2025, 3:48 pm • 0 0 • view
I disagree, sunset can be like a half hour earlier when youre tucked between mountains. Its not the same there as here. And many MANY people live in these notches in the forest on the sides of mountains. The flat areas are only near the rivers, thats where the farms are.
sep 1, 2025, 3:46 pm • 0 0 • view
I think you should back up your claims with some solar irradiance data. A half hour of sunset difference seems like a lot, but given that daylight hours for the Continental United States are pretty much all about ~4700 hours a year - knocking off an hour every day only drops that to ~4300 hours.
sep 1, 2025, 4:13 pm • 0 0 • view
Other fun considerations - a big truck stop would probably have to rely on a shade structure type system (way pricier than a rooftop array). And in those small suburban applications, it's going to be tricky to make fire code work given the NFPA's required setback distances.
sep 1, 2025, 2:46 am • 0 0 • view
You still need grid support, but SoCal Costcos plaster their roofs with solar panels and install a dozen or so chargers. Get gas or charge up while you shop. Local grocery stores also have a handful of chargers and rooftop solar
sep 1, 2025, 3:18 am • 2 0 • view
Totally true! In those applications, they're often level 2 chargers, much lower power than a DC fast charger. To drop in a few DC fast chargers, most grid operators get a little twitchy. Interconnection upgrades and steep demand charges can make it cost prohibitive.
sep 1, 2025, 3:29 am • 0 0 • view
That's more about driving shopping traffic though.
sep 1, 2025, 3:27 am • 1 0 • view
The solar part of this doesn't really make any sense, the charging station (and a battery can be useful for faster charging) definitely does but it's already not that uncommon.
sep 1, 2025, 2:38 am • 0 0 • view
You need motorway service stations like we have in the Uk where you can park up, get food, pee, shop, gamble and get gas or charge your car. There’s one about every 20 miles because Brits like a cup of tea at regular intervals
sep 1, 2025, 6:25 am • 1 0 • view
Hey John sorry to be off topic, but wanted to know if u follow any newsletters? About books or stuff as well, any u recommend? And how do u get your news these days?
sep 1, 2025, 2:32 am • 0 0 • view
The first charging company that successfully partners with the rest stops along the Interstate Highway System is just going to print money. So probably Tesla, ugh.
sep 1, 2025, 2:15 am • 0 0 • view
At least in NY there are fast chargers at every rest stop both EvGo and Tesla
sep 1, 2025, 2:17 am • 1 0 • view
Nice! I haven't been that way, haven't seen them. I just remember when I was a wee kid stopping at rest areas for lunch, and just stretching our legs for 20-30 minutes while we munched sandwiches. Seems like a great opportunity to give folks a chance to work the kinks out.
sep 1, 2025, 2:19 am • 1 0 • view
Yeah also about how long dogs need a break for so works out well. We used to stop on average 20 minutes for gas, dog break and bathroom break so charging works out just a few minutes longer
sep 1, 2025, 2:22 am • 0 0 • view
We needed to take a young adult to a drivers test and the earliest spot was at a DMV 30 miles away. Old Leaf down three bars was the car she knew. Scoped out chargers ahead of time. Chevron had a whole set up for charging! So smart.
sep 1, 2025, 3:28 am • 0 0 • view
The only answer that makes sense to me is that the owners of the gas stations are too conservative and putting all their eggs in the "we'll just find more oil" basket.
sep 1, 2025, 3:25 am • 0 0 • view
They’ve put in chargers at quite a few Buc-ees in Texas and neighboring states. It’s very easy to spend 20 min (and at least $20) in a stop
sep 1, 2025, 2:52 am • 2 0 • view
I stopped at a newish Buc-ees in Georgia with a fast charger and it was a great experience. Would love to see more of those along my road trip routes.
sep 1, 2025, 4:30 am • 2 0 • view
Waiting for the IONNA stations to make it to my neck of the woods. Public charging infrastructure in rural SC is abysmal.
sep 1, 2025, 2:16 am • 0 0 • view
I mean, you *do* need to plan ahead, but looking at PlugShare, I see dozens of L3 charging stations (not even counting Tesla) along 80/90 between Toledo and Chicago. We live in Phoenix and road trip on a full EV all over AZ, CA, NV, Etc.
sep 1, 2025, 3:42 am • 2 0 • view
They’re obviously not as ubiquitous as gas, but I’ve never wanted to go anywhere I couldn’t.
sep 1, 2025, 3:43 am • 0 0 • view
The longest stretch I see in there without an L3 is maybe 30 miles.
sep 1, 2025, 3:44 am • 0 0 • view
For the oil company gas stations at least, they shoot themselves in the foot by enabling EV adoption.
sep 1, 2025, 5:11 am • 0 0 • view
The obvious one in our town is in a Walmart parking lot. There are other random ones scattered about
sep 1, 2025, 2:17 am • 0 0 • view
Sheetz is actually pretty involved. They have super chargers already at lots of locations and also recently partnered with Ionna to do more user-friendly charging.
sep 1, 2025, 2:26 am • 1 0 • view
Wawa is similar but a little behind. Looks like buckys is also installing a huge number.
sep 1, 2025, 8:47 pm • 1 0 • view
I think gas stations are contractually obligated to not install electric
sep 1, 2025, 7:40 pm • 0 0 • view
amenities...meth, lot lizards, showers and slim jims
sep 1, 2025, 2:39 am • 0 0 • view
Like, they just remodeled the local Vons, and added gas pumps and a mini mart. Why no chargers? Either in the lot for shoppers or at the gas station, where people would buy snacks while charging. It seems obvious.
sep 1, 2025, 3:18 pm • 1 0 • view