I am calm. I am breathing deeply through my nose. I am counting to ten. I… WHAT, ARE YOU AFRAID YOUR DOG WILL INFODUMP TO YOU ABOUT THE FUCKING BALL?!?
I am calm. I am breathing deeply through my nose. I am counting to ten. I… WHAT, ARE YOU AFRAID YOUR DOG WILL INFODUMP TO YOU ABOUT THE FUCKING BALL?!?
They don't understand autism any better than they understand vaccines.
If they’re stupid enough to not vaccinate their dogs, Ï hope THEY get rabies and then the dogs get adopted by normal people.
... if they get rabies their dogs won't survive They don't take chances with exposed animals
Yeah, I know. 😔
To be honest my cat hears me info dump on stuff if they wanna info dump about their fave toy mouse...let them
Within a month after getting his rabies vaccine, my dog became nonverbal.
That's just awful. Have you tried a dangerous and expensive heavy metal detox protocol?
Heavy metal detox can't prevent death, but it will reduce the chances of Megadeth.
I bet he's never learned to use the toilet.
he wouldn’t even answer who the greatest baseball player of all time was?
BOOOOOOOO … 👏👏👏👏👏
“Maybe I should have said DiMaggio?”
youtu.be/CKmfP3krpY0?...
...I admit I didn't see that one coming. I'm almost more impressed than mortified.
Cognitive issues? About eating what it finds another dog left on the sidewalk?
Cognitive issues would be a step up for some dogs
So many things wrong here but I would love to hear my dog lecture on her special interests (probably delivery people and sheep?)
I told my wife about this and she laughed and said, "Please tell me you're joking."
The dog will ABSOLUTELY do that regardless.
Never mind the hyperfocus
Ah yes, because your dog having holes in its brain is totally better than your dog being weird. God forfend anything belonging to these people be WEIRD.
I have yet to meet a dog who isn't weird in some way. So how would we even tell? LOL
Yeah exactly. The only "not weird" dog is... that's a wolf. That's what a wolf is. We MADE dogs weird, ON PURPOSE.
because who would love dogs if they were socially awkward creatures with big feelings? (as an autistic, i am 100% "all cats are autistic," but dogs have yet to convince me that *they* are chill neurotypicals...)
I…I…I.. didn’t know that. I didn’t know that flavor of lunacy had spread to pet owners. I can’t tell you how many dogs I have run up to me off leash on trails with their owners shouting “don’t worry they’re friendly!” Now I adore dogs, and like to pet them (with permission) but but.. Just horrifying
This lunacy has been among pet owners a long time. Some vets used the fear to make money on titer tests and antihistamine shots. (One less than ethical place I interned 15 years ago hauled out scary disclaimer forms if you turned down the fancy benedryl).
I think it’s worse in pet owners because there are no immediate consequences, it’s not like with kids where you (used to) have trouble getting them into school or afterschool programs.
It was an even better line when used on my then ASD toddler who was reactive to dogs. 🤦♀️ I got so tired of jerks who shouted about the friendliness of their unleashed untrained house-beasts at my kid that I would sometimes shout back: “Mine isn’t!! She WILL bite!” back at them.
I had a rescue dog who had been repeatedly attacked by another pet in his former home and was reactive and scared of other dogs. There's a trail near my house on private property that is generously open to leashed dogs only. I used to take him there to walk him for his safety and everyone else's.
The number of aholes with unleashed dogs back there, and who did not scoop the poop. I swear. Anyway, RIP Ace the Bathound, I miss you buddy.
If I’m in a park on a trail I should be able to watch for birds, and not for bulleting unleashed dogs or uncleaned up dog shit. I have also discovered a surprising number of dogs that are reactive to brimmed hats, like Alex Tilley had personally insulted their mum.
"He said he threw the ball, but he really just hid it behind his back." *doggie sobs*
Tbf, I'm pretty sure my cat's autistic. And was prior to being vaxxed. Lol.
All cats are borderline autistic in my experience. What is rarer is having a cat who’s totally ADHD. But I’ve got one of those too. (I joke that his hyperactivity is the only defense we have against his ancestral desire for world domination)
oh no my dog might hyperfocus on an interest and never stop going on about it
alternatively if MAGA purists die en masse from rabies I'm not gonna bat an eye at this point
I’m too worried one of them would bite my dog
Don't dogs often do that anyway? (and cats) "SQUIRREL!"
My cat's special interest is becoming an honorary pigeon accepted as bird friend by all the local pigeons. However she is an indoor cat because I DON'T WANT HER TO DIE OF ILLNESSES LIKE BIRD FLU so she can only be friends through the windowpane.
Does she click click click chitter at her outside birdie friends too?
She does her sad lonely "play with me" tweedle at the pigeons and squeaks like a kitten when they coo, which clearly they are doing because they are wing cats.
But what if their dog never gets a job or starts a family? They'd just be a burden on the family! Desinformation kills. Not just the people that fall for it, but also the ones that have to rely on others to live.
This country is becoming pure "yikes!" I mean it's not just that these theories were disproven decades ago, it's that it takes an incredible effort to contort your brain enough to believe it. It's just not rational.
I'm not sure how you would ascertain if a dog was neurotypical. I think if you're more worried about a dog being neurodivergent than getting rabies you should not be permitted to have a dog. Or operate heavy machinery.
Getting rabies will make them plenty neurodivergent!
Hard disagree. I **want** those people operating heavy machinery in the hope they win their highly deserved Darwin Award sooner rather than later .
Heavy machinery sometimes takes out bystanders, though... I just want them to Go Away and stop endangering other people.
I mean I've dealt with dogs with situational depression or anxiety. That's easy to see. Autism though. I can't ...what would be different?
Chicken owners are sometimes going anti-vax for their chickens. There is a neurological disease called Marek's that most chickens are given a vaccine for, and some idiots are asking for non vaccinated chicks.
No, I'm afraid that my dog will post unhinged shit on twitter and use autism as an excuse
In 1987 my FFA teacher made us watch a grainy b&w documentary on rabies with real infected victims, animal and human victims (not treated, advanced). Traumatic! All my pets are vaxxed. Always. Horrible way to die.
so yeah one of my big special interests is milk bones, did you know you can actually give small dogs the bigger sizes but not the other way around?
Choking hazards?
exactly
Woo! I guessed! Ok, no, I just thought about it and used logic.
Same reason you have to be careful letting Maltese play with Great Danes - Choking hazard
This country is so damn stupid
Wait, what? I joked about that the other day, but I honestly didn't think this was an actual thing. I cannot even with some people anymore.
What the actual fuckity fuck fuck?
Now recalling telepathy with dogs, in "The Knife of Never Letting Go"...
We have a cat who regularly infodumps to us about his favorite ball. We love it, and he is an absolute fucking delight.
Oh dear lord.
This is so terrible and dumb. Maybe they're afraid there'll be food sensory issues and their dog will stop eating every random thing she finds on the ground. Like last year's fallen apples that've had a winter to ferment.
... Given what I've heard about what dogs will sometimes put in their mouths, you'd think that would be a positive! But noooo let's just scaremonger about fucking autism [screams in autistic]
(I was absolutely not specifically thinking about my own food texture issues versus my dog (who is finishing up a pancreatitis treatment) snuffling at a surprise mushroom patch in the yard (because my high desert home is too humid right now) that morning.)
As if they’re going to have a special interest in the squirrels outside
I don't think there are enough words in any language to describe how this post hit me like a bookshelf to the face. LIKE- TF YOU MEAN YOU"RE SCARED OF DOGS DEVELOPING AUTISM!? THEY DON'T EVEN USE HUMAN LANGUAGE OR HUMAN SOCIAL CUES WHAT KINDA BULLSHIT ARE THESE PEOPLE SMOKING!?
Seen a few clients go from coming regularly for years to suddenly having a meltdown when we say their dogs' vaccines need updating before we can see them again. Really sad seeing that stupid antivaxxer BS take hold, and it negatively impacts the dogs in more ways than just susceptibility to disease.
I mean, don't dogs already do that?
Is this what happens when we stop traumatizing children with _Old Yeller_?
Sadly I think it may be.
I, personally, was traumatized by _Where the Red Fern Grows_ and declined to engage with _Old Yeller_. But I also vaccinate my cats to a farethewell.
We have the option of making them read Their Eyes Were Watching God instead.
Yes! TeaCup’s death is from rabies. And there’s the scene in To Kill a Mockingbird- although that is not explicit stated as rabies, just a “mad dog”. Probably because the author thought everyone who would read the story knows that the “mad dog” is rabid.
I mean, I already have a dog who curates his collection of fluffy toys obsessively, gets upset if his routines are disturbed (eg if I go to bed late) and will only eat certain things. We manage. (Also have a daughter with autism, and we manage too).
Did you know that Andrew Wakefield is somehow still alive? Someone really needs to do something about that.
Bastard’s in the UK and won’t get rabies.
He might. The UK has bats and it’s recommended you get 4 rabies vaccinations if you get bitten by one there. Just saying … 🦇
Given his age (born 1956), he almost certainly got measles, but might still be able to get mumps or rubella if he didn't get vaccinated as part of being a doctor.
Wait, I thought he lived in Texas now.
Can we send him over to you? We could invite him to a "conference" that's being held for some reason in a cave. Full of bats?
Don't worry, I assume our head of health and human services will appoint him to some highly paid position in our government any day now.
Maybe they'll figure out a way to knight him
Would be kinda hilarious if he comes to the US and keels over from Measles.
Unfortunately, he's almost certainly vaccinated, since the entire reason for his anti-MMR grift was that he was selling competing vaccines.
I will also accept a cave full of Louisville Sluggers and enthusiastic people.
what do you *mean* enthusiastic people? There's no people in there. The bats just fell on him repeatedly. We were all in the bathroom at the time. >:3c
The bat-hroom.
If anyone needs an alibi, I can run a crochet group at the same time...
That's a "cave full of bats". In a sense...
Oh don't worry, with the way the UK is acting right now I'm sure rabies will be back in no time :')
MY DOG IS REALLY INTO TRAINS.
How do you tell if your dog is autistic? It goes «meow».
Oh no I vaxxed my dog and now he barks *quietly* while flapping his paws. Oh the horror. I am inconsolable.
Nah, she just dislikes the fucking sprinkler that we bought specifically for her to play in.
People can be SO incredibly stupid.
Better an autistic dog barking about trains then a rabid one.
But Have You Noticed that There's a Ball Right Here, right near your hand? I don't think you noticed that, and so I will nudge your hand again, because Obviously if You Had Noticed, and You Still Loved Me, You Would Have Thrown The Ball. But I Guess You Don't. I Will Let Out A Long Dejected Sigh.
To be fair this is... my dog's outer dialogue for sure.
When my late dog-cousin wanted pets, she would "casually" stretch or rearrange herself such that a paw wound up on your lap or in your way, and then be like, "Oh, sorry, I didn't see you there; but since I have your attention..."
I still desperately need them to explain exactly what autism would look like in a dog. That should be the requirement to get a waiver in the insane event we're just going to let almost-invariably-fatal *rabies* run rampant: explain, in detail, what both rabies and autism will do to your animal.
So I made the mistake of doing a web search and found at the blog of an ABA practitioner who seems to believe in and to have a list of symptoms of canine autism. Archive link below (obvious content warnings are obvious). web.archive.org/web/20241215...
Alt text added 💛 Snippet about ableist fears of Dogs “becoming” Autistic from vaccines.
Vaccines do not make People Autistic. Vaccines do not make Dogs Autistic. Even if a Dog was somehow Autistic ... there would be nothing wrong with that Dog ... they would just be an Autistic Dog.
Alt text for Video: "A video of a dog carrying a box into a room and then climing into the box like a cat might climb into a box and then looking at the person holing the camer."
Someone posted a while back that autistics make vaccines. Makes way more sense.
Rabies makes dogs DEAD, and I still can't believe parents or pet owners who believe vaccines cause autism would prefer their child or dog be dead rather than autistic. And it's not just the actual prevention of rabies - if your dog bites someone and is unvaccinated, it's getting PTS.
Unfortunately, some people are forging fraudulent rabies vaccination certificates so their dogs can still get licensed and on record as vaccinated.
I wonder how many of them want "tough on crime" leadership 🤔
There's the thing: they think requiring vaccines is the crime.
Now, I know I’m sometimes too Lawful Neutral for my own good, but Jesus wept. Those people should be fined exorbitantly and barred from owning any animals. Having children is also suspect.
There are fates much worse than death. They may end up rocking in public a little. It's embarrassing for a parent, don't you know. The horror.
I live in a city where there are SEVERAL dog beaches, parks, dog-friendly restaurants, etc and the thought of unvaccinated dogs wreaking havoc on the overall health of the dog population has my head spinning
I wish my dogs were autistic. My dogs are 13, 9, and 5 and have had many vaccines, yet none of them want to memorize license plate numbers or look at the sky. They just pee on things and bark at everything that walks by.
Do they not know, all dogs have autism. Just like all cats have autism. They're all autistic. Which is evident by the fact that they do not experience a double empathy problem when communicating with autistic humans.
Ive been reading this.... and I dont even... I cannot wrap my head around how the fuuuuuu.... this started.
Because true stupidity has no borders. It spills out everywhere & spreads like fuel oil on water. First it smothers all life within reach & then it catches fire.
Its just astounding, these people should look at what rabies does to animals and humans to understand why its vital
If they're willing to let their KIDS DIE of measles or polio, I doubt hearing the effects of a disease that's "really rare & probably won't happen to us" is going to land. I've heard apparently intelligent people say, straight up, "Let others take vaccine risks so we'll be fine not vaccinating!" 😱
Humans are bad at risk assessment.
DOGTISM??????
I'm ashamed to admit that I was really nervous to vaccinate my cats because--although rare--it can cause cancer at the injection sites. And unlike humans, cats can't tell me when something is wrong, AND their healthcare costs way more. I realize that's not an excuse, but it still made me anxious.
I think it's ok to be anxious as long as you still do the responsible thing. I was a mess when I got my kitten spayed earlier this year, for example.
That's why they changed where they do injections - it's in the leg instead of the back of the neck.
that's actually a real, tho rare, risk tho. No vaccines cause autism....and autism isn't fatal or even requires expensive treatment. Your concern was a real but low odds thing. Theirs is just BS.
My neighbor vaxxed their dogs and now they’re completely non-verbal so maybe they have a point /j
If my cats decide to info dump about whether they prefer the toy mice or the toy banana and why, I will do my best to listen patiently.
As we say on tumblr: all cats are autistic in their own way. XD
i would take notes!!
Honestly if my cats info dumped about which toys and/or wet food flavors I could just focus on buying and skip the rest it would make my life so much easier
Lol. My cat info dumps about her favourite toy. Very loudly. At 3 in the morning. I mean we're usually awake because everyone in this house is neurodivergent but still.
I've met a Labrador retriever who wanted to infodump about a stick, and how it was a good-sized stick I should throw, and how that was good and I should do it again, and yes he was a very good boy and it was a good stick but I can only throw it so many times for him.
"My special interest is buttholes"
Years ago my dog bit a kid. I was late with the dog's rabies vax & the cops said I'd have to have him put down. I begged. Even the parents said their kids teased my dog thru the fence. We quarantined in place for 10 days & used the time to build a kid-proof fence. If you love your dog, get the vax.
More like daugtism.
I was going to maintain my baby boy's vaccines anyway, but if we can find a way for him to do that, I would absolutely chinhands for his special interests (e.g. chickens, tahini, sticks, etc.)
I think more people need to be exposed to Old Yeller and if that doesn't work, we make them watch Cujo.
I'm so tired of hearing that apparently autistic is the worst thing a person (dogs are people) can be
On the one hand, my inner neuroscientist disagrees with the entire idea of “canine autism”. On the other hand, have you *met* a border collie?
My lab mix would like to know if you have met BALL
He would chase the BALL until his legs shook even as an elderly dog. (Photo was taken with a BALL held up beside the camera.)
I can tell he's looking straight at THE BALL😀
the focus!
It was like facing down a laser gun. When he wanted that ball, by God his entire body and soul was involved.
One of the ways we knew his time had come was loss of interest in playing ball. When he lost interest in food too, then we knew he was done.
That’s the hardest, the waiting and the knowing, every day borrowed time. My last dog was like that - we knew she had health issues, and the vet said it was just a matter of time. When she no longer looked joyous as soon as someone said the w-word, we knew.
Every day is a gift and when it stops being one for them as well as for you, it’s time to let them go. I have laid 11 dogs, 5 cats, 4 horses and a ferret to rest in my adult life and it never gets any easier. And I wouldn’t want it to.
Yes! Sylvie would go until she couldn't carry the ball because her jaw muscles were over tired and lay around moaning from sore muscles when we got home. There would be no stopping if it was up to her. (She's 9 now & her legs get tired before her jaw.)
Motley, the dog in my photo, was saved by his ball obsession. At age 11, he ate a pair of socks. He had an unfortunate habit of doing this all his life—had 2 gastric surgeries—we thought this time would be his last. Scheduled euthanasia. Morning of, I played ball with him one last time…
…and he shat out the socks an hour before the appointment. Vet said the activity had probably “moved things along.” He lived another 2 1/2 years and saw me through one of the most difficult times of my adult life: my mother’s month-long dying process. Thank God for that ball.
What a good boy!
My all time favorite vet call: "That appointment I have for Motley today?" (said cheerfully). "Uh... yes?" said the receptionist (who, for obvious reasons, knows us very, very well). "We can 🎶 cancel 🎶 it!" "He pooped?" "Yep." "Do I wanna know?" "Socks." "Plural??" "Yep." "Oh, Motley."
Good dog.
I think dogs have ADHD.
Perhaps a couple shifts caring for the puppies with parvo will adjust their perspective 😢
Not vaccinating dogs because of .... *checks notes*, Autism? What? P.S. I'm neurodivergent myself and I know many dogs!🤷♀️
Some folks never got traumatic by Ol Yeller and it shows
*traumatized, eff you autocarrot
🚗🥕
But what if as a consequence of the vaccine, my dog is totally nonverbal and never able to speak? How will he help me and my buddies solve mysteries in our weird 70s van?
My vet and her assistant were slightly taken aback when I straight up said "we do not fuck with vaccinations in our house" during my dog's yearly appointment. They very much approved but you could tell they were surprised.
Good on you, because rabies is very much not one to fuck with!
Rabies, little, lepto, distemper, parvo, etc. There's no reason to let a very beloved member of my family suffer through any of those. Hell, when the human Lyme vax becomes available I'll absolutely be getting it! It just doesn't make any sense to not get vaccines for everyone.
I have a border collie. He was autistic before he was vaccinated and will absolutely infodump on you about the ball.
Also, have you heard of THE STICK? The stick is fantastic! It comes from trees and you can have a small stick or a huuuuuge stick and....
Sticks are incredible. And frisbees. And more balls. Soccer balls even. THROW IT WHY ARE YOU WAITING
Branch managers unite !!
Where was this survey done? WHERE, MOTHERF*CKERS?!?
I am like...99% certain the trend of smushing dog noses until they can't breathe has caused far more issues than any vaccine. Like, if a pug seems to have cognitive issues, it's not because it has protection against rabies. It's because its running out of space for its brain
(Though if a pug wants to info dump to me about the squirrels it saw, that is perfectly fine and normal behavior.)
I am not. Is it normal to be full of expletives for people who act like having neurodiverse children like mine is worse than death from a plethora of agonizing diseases? They act like we aren’t otherwise delightful people, when swearing isn’t actively at play. 😡
It's ableism all the way down
Bb. Bw. Whuh? Nnnngh. *sorts thoughts and fingers* How, Stupid. Can. People. Get?!
Warning: That will be interpreted as a challenge, and acted upon accordingly.
Oh dear, you may have a point.....
I recall a few years back laughing uproariously when somebody was refusing to vaccinate their horse because it would get autism. But it's not funny at this point. (Btw, dogs, cats, and horses CAN be neurodivergent, but it's not caused by vaccines).
Ok, now I desperately need to know about neurodivergent dogs and horses. Cats are their own, alien-but-wonderful, species.
I used to know a horse that demonstrated slow learning, got on better with people than with other horses, poor coordination...he could be ridden and stuff, but he did trip more and you could tell he had to work on his balance. He was honestly a lovely horse, but he was definitely...off.
Ah. TBH, I was imagining an autistic horse, or trying to! Thank you, though.
His social issues and physical awkwardness were likely symptoms of something similar. I wouldn't use the word "autism" when talking about non-human animals, simply because we don't know what's going on in their heads at all. But whatever was it seemed to be shifted away from typical horse.
I can't even. The sheer stupidity simply feeds into the blatant ignorance that leads to animals needlessly suffering and dying.
anti-vaxxers have no idea what autism actually is except something they’d rather let their kids die over than having.
See also: being queer
This is how I know we've gotten too stupid to exist. The dinosaurs had a big asteroid. We have a gigantic asshole industry pushing fake science and bogus cures while the diseases we eradicated come roaring back. Remember, kids: prevention doesn't make money, bogus treatments do.
I'd rather my dog die of dehydration and neurological decline instead of.... Having dog autism????
my dog already infodumps me on balls, to be fair he is a border collie.
There is a special kind of divergence in all herding dogs
I mean, we 100% bred a lot of breeds to have different divergences in a way we could USE.
Like dachshunds. No sane animal would ever want to confront a badger in its den, so we bred one that was bold to the point of absurdity.
My dogs’ behavioral psychologist says we bred Jack Russels to be anxious because they’re better hunters that way, which does explain why my dogs and I get along but not why I’m not a better hunter
If your herding dog doesn't hyperfocus, does it even still count as a herding dog?
I have ADHD and I swear to god my border collie had it too. My whole family were convinced. Big agree
my dogs are vaccinated if this comes off the wrong way.
I encountered this batshittedness 13 years ago, when adopting a kitten in Seattle. Lady started being all insistent about The Risks and at the time I was able to smile/nod/finish paperwork/grab the little guy and get the hell out. Idk if I could do it without shrieking these days.
I had a nonverbal dog and she was the love of my life (and not autistic). I gave her her shots because I loved her. Just like all animals.
i got that dawgtism in me
There's going to be a lot of sick dogs dumped in shelters, back roads and gas stations when they can't afford to take care of a rabid dog.
Taking care of a rabid dog is actually very cheap. One bullet.
Oh god it's worse than that. You cannot use a bullet. Rabies is so contagious you can spread it via spraying blood and tissue into the air. If they can't safely get a needle into them they just have to lock them up and watch them die.
I wasn’t suggesting standing close!
Even at that, from what I've heard vets say. If you're close enough not to miss a killing shot, you're at risk.
I absolutely agree with the vets in terms of sanitation, but I also kinda feel like if an animal is rabid, missing the first shot isn’t the worst thing happening to them at that moment.
Agreed. And, I mean, the only thing I'd expect most vets to have on hand is a captive bolt, which does not help.
Shooting a rabid animal is sometimes the only option. If it's with a rifle and not a head shot, then it is relatively safe. I once killed a rabid skunk with a shovel.
I do actually get that it is sometimes an option. I am just adding that sometimes even that isn't possible, just in case there are people out there who are STILL not sufficiently horrified and need more reasons to vaccinate the animals they claim to love.
I suppose so. You'd think that given regulations mandating either euthanasia or a 6 month quarantine (not just keeping them at home--so pricey) for unvaxxed pets exposed to a rabid animal would be enough of a deterrent.
You really would, wouldn't you? It makes me so damned angry.
And that'll be the result of all those "but autism" weirdos....rabid dogs that no vet wants to get close to anymore to kill them humanely getting shot.
Eh, once they develop clinical signs, they die fairly quickly. /s
BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK *INHALE* BARK BARK BARK BAR
Sweet ghost of Cujo, what is WRONG with Americans?
apparently, when provided with button training, dogs *will* infodump im not sure how that falls out between breeds and like, upbringing, but if that's what they're trying to avoid, they failed already
I'm pretty sure that if dogs could master human speech they would do nothing but infodump.
Y'all seen that Dexter episode where he made the golden retriever talk? XD
Yes. And it would be all the topics we think that it would be… “the tastiness of human food” being the least objectionable of what they are likely to expound upon.
As Kes often channels: "Drop the hotdog! Drop the hotdog!"
My dog was very proud she mastered something that most humans could identify as the word "no." So we finally all understood it wasn't that she didn't understand but that she was refusing. Constantly. And loudly.
that is pretty impressive
When I took Charlie to his first checkup, my vet had a speech ready about the importance of vaccines and how they don't give dogs or people autism- "Wouldn't it be great if they did though?" I said."fluorescent lights and perfume would be illegal overnight." She laughed so hard I got a 10% discount.
Before we shut down the fostering org I had to tell some clients that neither I nor any volunteer working with me would foster, walk, train, or otherwise handle animals without a rabies vaccination. The pets did all get vaxxed though I had to show two clients some truly horrific video as well.
Every time one of my (autistic) kids needs a routine vaccination, the pediatrician comes in clearly braced for a fight. I feel so bad for them. I wonder if I can get them to put a note in my chart.
Our kid is not (yet) diagnosed neurospicy (yeah, that'll last /end sarcasm). We just automatically say, "ALL THE VACCINES. ALL OF THEM." when we walk in.
I appreciate that my vet is very "if your dog doesn't have these vaccines their not my client, these ones are a very good idea & I am offering you these ones so you know it's an option, but given your dog & the # of local cases of x it's not necessary at this time."
I'd love to attribute this to some actual rational thinking just based on faulty assumptions, because then we could change minds by showing the assumptions are false. But of course really this is just more "they're making the frogs gay" level of nonsense.
...I am so glad I am no longer working at a vet. I have dealt with some wild crap, but if I had to deal with someone pushing back on the rabies vaccine, I might start frothing at the mouth m'self.
Unfortunately, this has been true for several years
Cant afford the dog having a Gunpla addiction
I would love to yell a lot here abt how many ppl I've met in the dairy goat community who refuse to vax their goats for TETANUS & another clostridium that is ALSO FATAL, a vaccination that SAVES goats AND DOES NOT MAKE THEM AUTISTIC but God I'm so tired already & we're now entering the abyss I guess
Tetanus sure is another fun way to die!
Fun ways to die... So many fun ways to die...
Sure is! I gave my husband no peace this past winter until he re-upped his tetanus jab, but hell's bells, now I can add "haha rabies is much more likely" to the list of things my brain weasels will squeak about at 2am! cool cool cool
Not that I expect anyone to have a spare grand lying around, but you can get the vax at most travel doctors. It’s just expensive.
I'll keep it in mind - thanks. (:
The fuck? Ugh
TOTALLY, I was honestly flabbergasted the first time I ran into this even tho as a Texan I knew human anti-vax sentiment was a growing thing, a breeder was reassuring me that she hadn't vaxxed the animal I was considering buying so I could decide for myself
I'm like, uh, I love my livestock NOT TO DIE PAINFULLY OF LOCKJAW OR OVEREATING DISEASE, KTHX
Gaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh i was already worried about the food system. Its a pity this won’t affect the stupid heifers they’re breeding for Israel though. I bet those are fully vaxxed.
I mean, this is more the hobby farm community than the commercial food supply (and the cow-calf operations that feed into it), but it still sucks!
True, but I worry about the trends. I know a lot of folks feel that they can trust smaller farms more (and in new england, small farms are the norm)
It's bad no matter what, for sure
We vaccinated our dog and now she won’t shut up about World of Warcraft deep lore.
At least she didn't get the FNaF lore flavor of autism.
She keeps trying to get me to watch something called Babylon 5.
I nearly snorted half my Dr. Pepper. I award you one internet, you've won!
No infodump today. Infodump tomorrow. There's always an infodump tomorrow.
Ball is already a dog Special Interest, as is Stick and Bunny.
Also dying to know if anyone has those speech buttons dogs press and what else they infodump about. My guess is Treat and Outside.
Right?!?!?! How do you even talk to that?
I shouldn't have laughed as hard as I did. What is wrong with people?
Survivor bias and the insatiable desire to avoid being 'to blame' for a child's state of being. Some people would rather kill millions than accept that their child doesn't fit the cultural script they grew up with.
To be honest? I’m getting to a point where I’m this close to believing they are demonstrating the problem of not letting people die in childhood due to their own idiocy. I mean, if you fail to understand why unchecked rabies is a bad idea, you should have been dead well before adulthood. SMDH.
Damn bicycle helmets and seatbelt laws.
Don’t worry, I’m sure they will abolish those next.
The dog i got in me (both rabid and autistic)
Soo, in 2016 I had the misfortune to work with an actual veterinarian who believed this was possible and was talking clients in our low-cost vaccine clinic out of vaccines. I lost my shit so fast. She called me unprofessional for telling her that is eugenics & I reported her to the state board.
Had to deal with a vet (in a non-veterinarian, social capacity) who did not believe covid was an air borne disease well after it had been determined that yes, it was. It's amazing how some nurses, vets & doctors could be possibly anti-vax. They should do a better job weeding it out in med schools.
Right? The one I interacted with said it was a view that she "kept secret" while in school because she knew it was not acceptable. Damn right it isn't acceptable, it is murderous.
Yeesh. And then there are the therapists (Jordan Peterson.) Glad you were able to evict that vet, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
The clinic did not like losing money on the vaccines we drew up to administer that the clients asked for but the vet talked them out of, thankfully.
OMG I just remembered that the assistants & reception staff would all get our pay docked if we wasted vaccines, too. But not the vet who got a flat fee for work, so it was egregiously awful for all the staff on her shifts.
Most vets are wonderful people. But my sister & my nephew are both vet techs, so I've heard many stories, sad to say. & the clients of course can be pretty out there too.
The clients can be so awful, yeah.
Oof.
RIGHT?!
She was talking people with toddlers in hand not to vaccinate against lepto because it isn't endemic here in the PNW->it is endemic, and small children with pets are at high risk for zoonotic transmission that can end in organ failure and death.
JFC that's so unprofessional of her. And fucking dangerous.
Even if you have absolutely no concern for others, wouldn’t you be worried about a frickin’ BITE? You’re the vet! That’s who they bite!
That is one of the things I mentioned but she was not hearing it. We got bitten so often & were doing a clinic at the effing county animal shelter when she said that. She was talking about setting up a "detox yoga clinic" in the SW Oregon mountains where she'd probably get black plague or hanta.
boggled
Oh noooooo… big yikes!
WHAT THE FUCK
I swear, cats are all on spectrum, it’s fine!
It is why most autistic people I know (who are not allergic) often like animals better than people. The cat appreciates a good routine, dislikes loud noises, and doesn't mind eating the same food every day, so he's an ideal roommate except for the 'does not pay rent' part.
I dunno, I keep cleaning its litterbox and it never cleans my bathroom...
That would count as "rent" though. The cat has PRIDE, it is a PROFESSIONAL freeloader. Also it is time for you to dangle the squeaky mousie toy.
And a lot of us who are allergic. Some things you just put up with.
Yup.
the cat never says its not mad at me while being obviously mad at me, he just chomps a toe or two and goes back to liking me fine.
We didn't vaccinate our cats for rabies yearly until we got our current vet, but that's because they're inside-only upstairs-apartment and never get the chance to deal with real rodents or other cats. Current vet rules mean we have to, to protect their staff, so ok.
I'm glad to hear that's their policy; far too many places have rodents in the walls without people realizing it.
We do get squirrels on the roof (which our roof design amplifies to make them sound like raccoons or something), but they've never been able to get inside, and while my cats have enjoyed watching them out the window, they can't get out. But yeah, lots of cats can access rodents.
Also if your pet is unvaccinated and bites someone the health department will euthanize it to test for rabies because the way they do that is to send the aggressive animal's brain for pathology. Please vaccinate your pets for rabies.
Our cat is indoors-only upstairs-apartment and has taken out mice for us on more than one occasion. But that’s city living in an 1895 building with a back yard for you I guess.
I was gonna say! obviously cats are autistic. dogs are ADHD - easily distracted unless hyperfocused
*yelling into the void* autism is not a cognitive impairment
...I think in this thread, you're preaching to the choir rather than yelling into the void? Same level of productivity, but perhaps less depressing?
fair, fair
More than 1 in every 3 people in the US genuinely believe this Jesus christ
Or at least 1 in every 3 people who answered a YouGov survey.
Excuse my language, but wtf? Haven't they ever watched Cujo?
When I was growing up, autism was perceived as a debilitating disorder with a lot of nasty symptoms, possibly including being totally nonverbal. I think that has a lot to do with the panic about a condition now defined much more broadly to include a lot of people with a manageable disability.
Sure, but if you’re worried your dog may turn out nonverbal, I have questions.
I watched a vet explain to a client that her 6 month old lab puppy did not have ADHD. Some people just aren’t prepared for pet ownership.
youtu.be/Nc-Ru9pcFwk?...
I'm trying to picture an autistic dog having trouble with social cues. Like all the other dogs are sniffing butts and tail wagging and there's your autistic dog, trying to shake paws and smile with teeth.
We had a dog who was uninterested in other dogs. All she wanted to do was hang with people.
My cats talk to me all the time, though not very loquaciously.
I am simultaneously laughing, crying, and cursing because humans are becoming increasingly SO FUCKING STUPID and also the inmates are running the asylum now.
Fun fact: it's real hard to get a rabies shot after a pet dog bite! About a year ago, I got bitten by a leashed dog that was behaving oddly, the owner was weirdly evasive when I asked about the dog's vaccination status, and when I inquired about rabies PEP, I was told it wasn't given for pet bites.
Huh. Kevin got one for a feral cat, but it’s not the same. Did you ever get it?
Nope. I was told they assume all pets are vaccinated against rabies and just don't give it out for pet bites. Even though I specifically pointed to the whole "dog autism" panic. I was told it was "probably fine" and "call us if you have symptoms". Symptoms. Of rabies. 🙃
---
……………………..fuuuuuuuck.
Who was they--the ER? That...is deeply terrifying.
The county health department, after urgent care refused.
I was told that a vaccine after a potential rabies exposure would do nothing. 🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️
...did they mean that the prophylactic one is not effective and you'd need the post-exposure series? Otherwise YIKES.
Honestly I don’t remember. But from what it sounded like was if I was exposed it wouldn’t matter shot or not. I either have it or not. And I may be asymptomatic for up to 3-5 years
....that was NOT true. And also rabies shows up in at the MOST months. Maybe they were giving you the info for....lyme disease is all I can think of that fits that...
It was after I was bit by a cat so it wasn’t lyme
WTF?!?!?
...ye gods.
This is scary! I assumed they either gave the shots post bite or the animal was euthanized and the brain observed. My husband had a bat (🦇) hit him in the face while in bed. The ER was all like release the bat. Ummm…no. We took the bat in for testing.
That totally depends on location, then, because our ED does rabies shots for bites from pets of unknown status.
I'd have to ask for that in writing, with their medical license level and it's number.
Yeah—I mean, hindsight is 20/20, obviously, and I don’t blame anyone for not thinking of it in the moment, but that’s very much a “put it in my chart that you refused treatment” one.
Isn’t it… TOO LATE by the time you show symptoms of RABIES?
Yep. Once any symptoms present themselves, the virus has already reached the brain and it's too late to do anything about it. There have been vanishingly few survivors, even among humans getting the best treatment possible, once it reaches that stage.
Yes!
The "us" in this case was the county health department, after my health insurer told me they straight-up wouldn't provide rabies vaccine for a non-feral dog bite.
Normally the county provides it without getting insurance involved! What bastards!
Although I have heard of health departments getting very cagey about it before, come to think of it. At that point i don’t know what you do—get doctors to call, call your congressperson, whatever. Travel clinics offer rabies vax out of pocket but I don’t know if it’s the same as the post-exposure.
A reminder that if you fail to get treated post-exposure, the survival rate is literally less than 50 or so WORLDWIDE. Don't delay no matter what.
Last I checked, which has been quite a while, post-exposure is 5 doses plus rabies immunoglobulin injected into the bite wound. Pre-exposure is the same vaccine, I think, but only 3 doses. The post-exposure immunoglobulin shots are supposed to hurt like hell and are likely the most expensive part.
When Kevin had it, it was only two sets of shots, but he was already vaccinated and had good titers.
Right, different post-exposure protocols depending on vaccination status. Also no IgG if you have your own.
(Obligatory disclaimer that this is of course not medical advice)
Walgreens and CVS say they offer it here in Ohio. It was one of the options you could select when I got my Covid booster appointment.
Alas, I am in California.
And it’s like a thousand bucks, so not exactly something you can do at the drop of a hat.
Yeah, that's why I ended up rolling the dice. As it turned out, I didn't have rabies, but jfc, nobody should be trusting to public adherence to vaccine guidelines these days. If a fully informed patient wants a vaccine that isn't specifically contraindicated, they should get it.
Right?!
Last time I saw a doctor, I told her I wanted any and all vaccines for which I was eligible, and her actual words were, "Oh, thank God."
I have had 2 sets of rabies shots. The first one I paid out of pocket for bc I was between jobs, the second involved showing up with a bat to the health dept bc the website said they took live bats, but leaders did not tell employees.. which led me to pound on a desk and ask how to kill a bat.
Oh noooo
They finally took it. Apparently the rules were changed in Feb, but this was Sept and no one thought to tell ppl? Funnily enough, this was one of the only times I pulled out the "I literally have a PhD in infectous diseases.".
Basically, dogs/cats in the west have such a low risk of getting exposed to rabies that we rarely recommend shots after a dog/cat bite. But if you get bitten by a bat, skunk, fox, bobcat, or mountain lion… do not pass go, do not collect $200, go straight to the ER for rabies prophylaxis.
Hmm, so is it a “has the dog been bitten by something?” question?
Yes, exactly! Here we evaluate based on behavior and county. If you’re on the east coast and you get bitten by a dog/cat that they can’t monitor, the risk is high it has been in contact with a raccoon so you get PEP. Always a big “culture shock” for MD’s trained on the EC when we’re like, “Welllll…”
I work at NMDOH! We decide on a case by case basis, but the reason it’s rarely given for pet bites in the West is not bc of vaccine status of pets, it’s bc we don’t have raccoon rabies here, so unvaxed animals have low risk of exposure. East coast raccoons have tons of rabies, so high risk to pets.
Raccoons and skunks are definitely the big ones they talk about back east. Out west, I’d probably worry more about bats.
Bats, skunks, and foxes are our primary concerns here, although we weirdly had a bunch of bobcats in ‘24. It’s common enough in bats here that if you wake up to a bat in the house, either we need to test the bat or you need PEP. And we have plague, so if you see any dead prairie dogs, Do Not Touch!
Oh, that's very helpful! Is there any concern about bats and/or coyotes out here? Both are common in my region.
Yep, if you had contact with a bat or coyote and we couldn’t test the animal, you would 💯 get PEP. They should not have been dismissive of your concerns at all! But we would likely not have recommended PEP for that dog bite here either. 😊 Bad bedside manner but probably a medically sound choice.
Yep, had a similar thing happen about 6 years ago. A dog running loose in my neighborhood with no owner in sight and no collar bit my leg. The urgent Care I went to did not recommend a rabies shot and when I mentioned it talk to me out of it. I had medicaid at the time.
When I called the animal county control about it they suggested I see about getting a rabies shot but they weren't going to try and catch the dog for observation because I didn't know where it was anymore.
Never got a rabies shot and though I've been okay for 6 years so Im probably okay but I spent about a year very nervous
They said they hadn't had a case of rabies in a pet dog in X years, so they didn't provide it. There are local wild rabies vectors (raccoons, coyotes, etc.), so an unvaccinated pet could easily get rabies, but they were not interested in updating the policy.
What absolute irresponsibility.
It was real fun to track all these people down by phone after a 3pm Friday bite, too, with the "rabies PEP is most effective within 24 hours of exposure" clock ticking in my head.
jfc
I'll bet.
*sympathy* There's an NPR story of a woman from NYS that happened to, but she was bitten by a clearly rabid raccoon (Act 1: The hills have eyes" in this episode) : www.thisamericanlife.org/319/transcript
Were you able to get it out of pocket, or did you have to just wait it out?
Waited it out.
Oof, that sucks. I'm so sorry. And I'm glad you didn't get rabies!
Jesus fucking christ aaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuggghhhh
So, the deputies in that county do not appear on their doorstep to ask for proof of rabies vaccination? I would have been terrified and breaking out the savings for the shots. So glad you are all right. :(
To be fair, I live in California, where rabies isn't quite as common as in the eastern US. But I do think "we won't give you a rabies shot because the dog was on a leash" is a dumb answer.
Downtown Berkeley, two blocks from the high school earlier this year
This is why I hate seeing dogs running loose, and do not volunteer to pet people's animals. I've known too many cats who will bite you as a greeting, just to make sure people understand who's in charge. I've gotten everything I could in the past two years. I want shingles vax but doc says wait.
I jokingly refer to myself as a feral Disney princess because so many animals encounter me and immediately go FRIEND YOU ARE FRIEND PLEASE PET MY EARS AND SCRITCH MY BUTT. So I pet a lot of animals. Only ever got bitten the once, which was why I was worried.
I also tend to attract them, but right now I mask in public, so some people keep themselves and their pets at a distance. But at friends' houses, I end up with cats piled on me, or Aussie shepherd tushes offered for a scritch. :)
I also mask in public. But dogs gonna dog.
Not wild animals! I do not pet wild animals! I gave that up around age sixteen. But yeah, if your pet dog (or cat, or goat, or bird, or horse, or python, or ... anything that's not an arachnid, really) wants cuddles, I usually can't say no. Also wolves. But they initiated, and had had their shots.
my DOG got a rabies booster after another pet dog bit him at the dog park!
So if someone's unvaccinated pet dog gets rabies, everyone it bites is fucked, at least in some regions of the US.
Did you report the bite to authorities? SOP *should* be that the dog's rabies vaccination status is verified, and the dog is quarantined (restricted to house except for leash-walking) for 10 days. If no signs of rabies in dog by then, bite victim is in the clear.
I called the county health department's rabies control person and they weren't interested. I'm not sure who else I should have called.
Must be a regional thing. We see enough rabies around here to take it seriously.
That's weird. When I was 7, so in the late 80s, in MD, I got bitten by someone's leashed pet dog at a bike park. There was an article in the local paper trying to find the dog to confirm vax (which worked), cos otherwise I'd have had to get shots. Changing times I guess!
LOL my dog's a border collie he's autistic/OCD out of the box
i've got a herding breed mix and oh my god, the lengths it takes to get this dog to go potty when the grass is: Too Dry, or Too Wet she also sometimes will not eat unless you throw her kibble for her or play with her first but also she will not play unless it's a game w/ rules we've practiced
she has very little interest in toys (again, unless it's part of a game, that we've practiced and she knows what to expect) but she will stare intently at animals for hours like idk if dog autism is a thing, but as an autistic human? i get it, dog. i get it.
LOL the rules thing My guy hates playing with other dogs because they don't play right
Right? I have a dog who is THERE IS ONLY BALL LET ME SHOW YOU THE BALL LOOK LOOK LOOK AT THE BALL SMELL IT LOOK.
"[enthusiastic barking] Did you know the family Sciuridae contains more than 250 species in about 58 genera? The Malabar Giant Squirrel has a head-and-body length up to 50cm, with some larger individuals weighing as much as 3kg..."
Now imagining a dog who *knows* that October is Squirrel Awareness Month.
This has honestly been going on for years and I’m afraid it’s only going to get worse. Whether it’s a viral video about rabies not being required every year or a breeder sending home an info packet telling folks not to vaccinate or to buy vaccines from tractor supply.
Not enough folks have had to watch a pet die from a preventable illness and it shows.
They think the dog won't bark/vocalize happily or act/be happy or have a personality at all or be able to do literally almost anything on their own anymore, because they're working exclusively on a completely outdated definition of the word. bsky.app/profile/nick...
Our dog gets seizures. We are worried the vaccine that the vet is pushing will drive more seizures because the vaccine says "do not give to dog who get seizures" in fairly clear language. Vet ignores us and won't cooperate with giving different vaccine.
Friend, it’s time to find a new vet. I’ve had an epileptic dog and had no issues with spacing out vaccines and minimizing non-core vaccines (for example, he never got vaxed for bordatella or Lyme after his epilepsy dx) because I made sure the vets he saw through his life were comfortable with that
That is what was so obnoxious. I've called 4 different vets in my region (5 if you count the agricultural one that mostly deals with cows) and they all were unwilling or unable to give the shots separately. I eventually found a holistic vet who was willing to do individual shots like 60 miles away.
Got videos of it, and documentation of it increasing after a medication they gave her with known seizures as as side effect. Vet just asks us "are you a vet?" and ignores us. Anyway, do you know how to cure rabies? Vet won't help us get a standalone rabies shot.
So far as I know, all rabies shots are standalone? They’re not a multi-disease shot like the DHPP. Unless I’m misunderstanding you? There’s no cure for canine rabies, though, except the shots.
It's modified live attenuated combo one called RECOMBITEK. They want to do that, the rabies one and another at the same time. We specifically requested to space it out and avoid the live-attenuated one that is high risk. So to get distemper & rabies ones we have to go to another vet! Its absurd.
It's really shitty situation to be in. We have wild foxes and some raccoons in the area have been confirmed rabies a few years ago. Going to end up drrving to a different vet 70 miles away after we do intake cuz they'll actually give her one that won't drive seizures.
Did you know that if you give a dog trazadone it can destroy their liver and the resulting liver problems can give them seizures? pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33378129/ Apparently 4 different local vet offices don't.
Having happened in one dog and described as rare seems like a pretty good reason for vets not to know.
We even called up the vet to talk about the trazadone reaction and complications with another medication interaction, discuss getting her a liver panel cuz her poops were white. Simply wouldn't. Like a child with their head in the sand, completely refused to look into it.
So I took the dog off the medication and she stopped having seizures every few days and now only gets it like once or twice a year. It's very hard to trust a vet when they completely gaslight you and won't compromise an inch.
Sounds like a reason to get a different vet, certainly.
Anyway, good news is that FMT crapsules seem to fix liver failure in dogs, also treats dermatitis commonly associated with liver failure. www.nature.com/articles/s41...
I'm currently saving up to conferm her gut has stuff that will help her avoid seizure from vaccines in teh mean time. It's really fascianting; FMTs might cure canine ADHD lol. stories.tamu.edu/news/2024/09...
Def saw massive reductions in anxiety. After treatment she went outside in the rain for the first time in her life. There may be room to use gut interventions to reduce vaccine adverse events in dogs, and may even help with enhancing immunity response. But good luck getting a vet that will listen.
Also, yes. I am afraid that is going to cause "Canine Dysfunctional Behavior" which is often compared to Autism. This can lead to cognitive decline. One of her littler mates was already murdered because of a neurological disorder that made her forget her owners and start biting people randomly.
I am actually autistic btw.
I believe hepatic encephalopathy is a common overlooekd cause of CDB in dogs. It is perhaps similar to mitochondrial dysfunctions that could be driving liver toxicity in autistics. pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC...
I don't say this lightly, I have gut tests showing I cleared out a ton of pathogenic bacteria in my gut tied to liver dysfunction as part of fixing my GI disorder.
Anyway yeah. I'm afraid the vaccine is going to cause autism in the dog and she'll die of a seizure! And I want tO vaccinate the dog too, the vet is the hurdle here. It's so fucking stupid I can't even.
He might be fine with eating the same food every day
XD LETMETELLYOUABOUTBALL DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY BALLS THERE ARE? BALLBALL ALLballball ball llllalalalaa ball BAAAAALLLL
I see you meet my mom's dog.
They already do that
I mean the possibility of the dog dying in a foaming raging mess that could POSSIBLY kill me or other people is scary and all....But hear me out. Dog Autism.... Yea vaccination CLEARLY isn't worth it. lol
If dogs are autistic, that would still mean they have more cognitive ability than the blob elected as president...
biomedical story prompt? 😜
AS IF THEY WOULDN'T DO THAT ALREADY IF THEY COULD
Anti-science and anti-intellectualism killing the nation, one disease at a time.
What a time we live in, eh? You can curate your own reality and turn it into the hill on which you will die!
and take an unpredictable but probably large number of people with you, to the top of your hill & over it, into the Valley of Death.
Dogs are kind of already autistic, tho.
tbh i think it's why i have always gotten along so well with them, and i don't think that's a unique experience i'm taking a dog training professional course, and the stark difference between it and -everything- else i've ever taken makes me wonder if this field just kinda attracts autistic people
Have you ever read Animals in Translation? It's kinda along those lines.
I have, yes!! It was a fascinating read. All of the people writing/teaching this course I'm taking: emphasize empathy first and foremost, are big science-heads, and also don't give two shits about "tradition" if it's something that hasn't been proven to work it has been -so- refreshing honestly
That's excellent. The old ways of treating our fellow animals are really barbaric. I'm glad that things are changing.
i can't share it b/c it's embedded in the course and i don't have permission but i watched a vid of hyenas who had been trained to come up to the bars of the indoor part of their enclosure, and present their neck for a blood draw. which they did, with enthusiasm. you -can't- do that with force.
i'm at this point in my journey because i adopted a dog who was, uh, A Challenge. and the local trainers all wanted me to buy a shock collar before they'd even met her?? i had to drive 40+ minutes away to find a place that didn't. now i see how she is and i compare her to the dogs w/ shock collars-
- who flinch when you reach your hand out towards them, or tuck their tails so hard underneath their body when they sniff bushes because they're used to being shocked for it my dog? sleeps in the doorway to the kitchen & only moves if she thinks you're gonna pet her. this was by far the better path
Yeah I hear you. I took in a cat who would scream and run when you tried to pet him in the kitchen. I think his last family used to heave him through the air by the neck. He's much better now. Brutalizing someone who is supposed to be your companion animal is crazy.
i've never understood it. tbh i think i slept on dog training as a career option growing up because of the prevalence of that alpha myth/"dog whisperer" nonsense; didn't seem to work for my childhood dogs, didn't like doing it. do these people think early man yanked wolves around?? you'd get mauled
That's alright. Still very interesting!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs-t... WAIT I FOUND IT ELSEWHERE. guess they didn't own the video but did get permission to use it, so here's this!
Sometimes the only way to get people to vaccinate for rabies is “by law you must be rabies vaccinated.”
“What shots do they actually need, are the most important?” “Literally everything I recommended. You think I like making work for myself?! These will kill you, your dog, or make them seriously ill.” What I actually do is educate and detail why each one is recommended.
Dogs would absolutely do that if they could speak, though. Not because they’re autistic but because they’re excited five-year-olds.
Me: “Cats are furry four legged toddlers. Dogs are furry four legged preschoolers. You can tell because a cat’s baseline is ‘Fuck you, I do what I want’, whereas a dog’s is ‘Am I a good boy? Tell me I’m a good boy’.” No one I have met has yet to attempt to correct that assessment.
alternatively, cats are furry burnt out 40 year olds.
Nah. If they were burned out, they wouldn’t bother with batting things off of shelves. Too much work.
I’ll have to note “become a furry” on my calendar for next year …
*snerk* call it 40something, give yourself a decade :p
Perhaps their dog will have an inappropriate understanding of physical boundaries and a perceived overreaction to sensory stimuli.
The dog could self-stimulate in some socially awkward fashion! Or make noises!
Woof *hump*... Looks like some dogs already do this.
My dog definitely already does this.
Very autistic
Or develop something like ARF-ARF-ARF-ARF-ARFID?
I thought Old Yeller was required reading in grade school. Or at least people have seen Cujo! How fucking stupid are people?
If you haven’t seen Cujo: Imagine the kid friendly movie Beethoven with the lovable St Bernard. Now imagine that dog killing everyone because it has rabies.
Terrible news, your dog is now suddenly deeply into trains. Not training. Trains.
My dog just wasted an hour of my time barking about the intricacies of package delivery
I see your dog has the same special interest as one of my dogs.
How many will refuse treatment if they get bitten by their rabid dog?
Gonna find out, I guess!
Well, at least one man in the US has died because he was more afraid of something with the word "vaccine" in it than of dying of rabies, despite knowing 100% that the bat that bit him was rabid. www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes...
uuuuuuuuuuuuu
*rubs forehead*
At least it was his decision for himself, and didn't involve children.
Will it be possible to tell if the subsequent madness is different from the pre-existing madness? 😁
not the mental acuity/cognitive/stability tests, no, but the physical signs, absolutely.
I'd be more afraid of mine infodumping to me about the cat poop she samples in the backyard. But even that scares me less than rabies.
this all comes from deciding not to traumatize kids with Old Yeller Mostly I’m on the side of not traumatizing kids with literature/media but I think that one may have been a strategic error
I was just arguing a few weeks ago that we could probably skip it because we knew rabies was bad, and now I realize just how utterly wrong i was.
I feel like we are all getting a national--well, really, global--lesson in "I don't need my medication, I haven't had symptoms for a while!"
Reminds of the days we had discussions about breastfeeding bats.
Bringing new meaning to batshit crazy.
I remember.
I swear I heard that story about a baby bunny
Oh ye gods I remember both of these. CPR on the bunny and breastfeeding the bats. ohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygodohmygod It creeps me right out even thinking about it. Why! Are! People!
I wish I knew
I was in a country where one of the things they sold at the open-air market was dried bats. Told a friend who eats ANYTHING about this and they were like Noooooppppeee.
Probably, but bats are a major vector for rabies.
oh I know! I just…had not heard that particular brand of crazy with BATS
Not to retraumatize Ursula, but that discussion had a variety of critters and poor life decisions by humans.
Thanks to Bluesky's thread compression, I had to click through to find that we're talking about breastfeeding here; I thought y'all were on to autistic bats...
Hey, bats are totally cute; I felt like jumping up and down and going "SQUEE!" when circumstances forced me to retrieve a tiny bat from between some pallets with my bare hands (Is rabies a thing for them in Germany too...?) and then was holding it. But why the fuck does one breastfeed cute animals?!
Oh. Oh dear. I remember that one. She gave a baby bunny CPR after her indoor/outdoor CAT brutally mauled it. Oh and she refuses to believe that collars that break away if snagged exists when people were like "PUT A COLLAR WITH A BELL ON YOUR CAT"
Oh! Oh! And she was made people were going wtf, but ma'am. You do not give cpr to a baby bunny and if you are so concerned about how the mama bunny feels, stop letting your cat out to maul the bunnies.
(Oh! Right! And this wasn't modern CPR where you focus on chest compressions unless there's someone else to do the breathing. There was mouth to mouth attempted. She got sick. This wasn't even the first time. Boy was that day on bluesky a trip)
right that all sounds very familiar
It's fucking wild. Like. I've seen an actual rabid animal. It's so terrifying, on a primal level. I don't want people to have to see it, but if it would make them vaccinate their dogs?
Yeah we had a rabid skunk here when I was about 13. Heading for chickens, dad yelled & it stopped, stared & started pacing towards us. Dad told me to run & get shotgun DAMN fast. That skunk was just terrifyingly *wrong*. One of a scant handful of times that shotgun was used in the yard.
It's heartbreaking and absolutely one of the *right* times to use the shotgun. I don't want to have to see it. When my cat was due for her rabies vax my vet was like "we offer 1 year and 3 year" and the vet was kind of confused when I picked 3 year. I guess most do 1. It seemed easier.
Oh for sure. Doesn't matter how good a shot you are, no point in taking chances with a miss, and a shotgun close range is pretty damn reliable. Especially with that creepy stalking, I know I was terrified and Dad was pretty damn scared too. I was happy when my vet offered cats a 3 year rabies vax!
Sometimes, I think the uncanny valley fear is connected on some primal level with how *wrong* animals and people with rabies act.
But admittedly, I have an on-again off-again special interest in the history of rabies, so I might be projecting my fascination and terror.
I do that with flu and polio and TB but rabies is just too scary and sad for me. Mercy the Rhode Island “vampire”? Bring it! But no animals you gotta shoot for the greater good.
I mean, yellow fever and cholera are my bread and butter. I'm good with awful diseases. Rabies and smallpox really speak to American perceptions of vaccination across time.
I'm sorry but the GOP is forcing our hand. Old Yeller trauma must come back.
My kid's class read Old Yeller last year and at first I thought, "that seems like a weirdly old fashioned choice," but then batshit rabies stories kept turning up in the news and I came around to, "still old fashioned, but I guess it's still has a vital public health message!"
on the less grisly side, I can report that childhood exposure to “Balto” produces a very pro-vaccine kid
Unfortunately, the efficacy is less than 100% (my younger sister).
Alas my son (now 30) is one of the folks posting “BALTO DID NOT DO THE SERUM RUN FOR YOU TO REFUSE VACCINES”
I tip my hat to him (but also, it was Togo who did most of the run, Balto just did the last short leg)
Oh I know, but the animated movie beloved of my then-preschooler focused on Balto
I have never seen this movie! I wonder if it's still available
Library might have it?
Not sure, we had it on VHS
Baltic had better PR
Balto. Damn autocarrot!
I figured
Thanks to your son for putting in the work!
I think we need to reframe the discussion to acknowledge that being upset by a piece of media is generally not actually “trauma”, and that education is sometimes viscerally uncomfortable and that’s a normal and reasonable part of the process of learning things.
The animated Watership Down though.
The core of the difference between traumatic events and upsetting media is the awareness that the media is not actually happening TO you, you’re being told a story. It may be a completely factual story or not, but either way, it’s not a traumatic experience you’re having. It’s an upsetting story.
And optimally, you then get to discuss your feelings about the story and process them in a healthy manner, with someone who can reinforce the important takeaway while validating the emotions, eg “yeah, it’s really sad. That’s why we vaccinate our dogs against rabies, so that won’t happen to them”.
(Complete with reassurance that there’s something that can be done to prevent the awful upsetting story outcome from happening in real life! It’s as easy as giving the dog a vaccine! And then the kid understands that even though the dog hates going to the vet there’s a good reason for it!)
Also optimally there should be a way to provide extra support to the kid who KNOWS they would have been the one locked in the closet in All Summer In A Day while the rest of the class is learning maybe they shouldn’t be cruel to other kids.
OUCH. And yes. (I was not actively experiencing cruelty but I was ABSOLUTELY the Weird One and I knew it could happen at any moment.) (Also reading that, "The Lady or the Tiger," "The Tell-Tale Heart," and "The Most Dangerous Game" all in the same class was rough on my views of humanity.)
This makes me realize how helpful it probably was that, because my middle school lit class class was all 2E neurodivergent gifted kids, we were all pretty much aware of the fact that each and every one of us was at risk of being in either position in some of those stories.
that does sound helpful There was no framework for 2E when I was in middle school! I was Too Bright and Too Weird.
Oh, there wasn’t a framework for us, either! It was more that they crammed all the super-smart kids at my self-contained special ed school into one class, which fortunately had a fantastic English teacher.
(This is the same middle school class that, when our awesome science teacher switched to admin and was replaced by a teacher who was both new and actively terrible, calmly rioted until he had to come back to teach only our class until we graduated!)
AH I went to a regular junior high in my hometown, which had stopped gifted programs about when I started school because parents of kids who didn’t make the cutoff were screaming UNFAIR and my deficits were social and gross motor so nobody thought of special ed for me Private HS saved my life
I went through a Poe phase in second grade which I think is a solid explanation for why I’m Like This
That (7th grade) was my only Poe until high school and I did better then. Family explanation for why I am Like This is Maleficent at age 4 (I initially tried to flee & and then got fascinated by her) and my mother watching original Dark Shadows with me when I was a toddler. Also "The Highwayman."
The moon was a ghostly galleon! You can imagine how excited I was for the Cruxshadows’ setting of “Annabel Lee” when I’d loved it since I was seven.
Oh definitely. There should be individualized supports for whatever each kid needs to process about the story they’ve been told. And sensitivity about timing. If you know one kid just lost a beloved pet, it might not be optimal Old Yeller time for the class.
But all these considerations CAN be balanced with the developmental need for children to learn to handle “negative” emotions in healthy ways, and the importance of not stunting their emotional maturation by preventing them from experiencing upsetting stories.
(Obviously protecting them from real physical danger is important, but that’s why a movie is a better idea than a field trip to see a real-life rabid animal!)
I think my “rabies is bad” formative childhood movie experience was To Kill A Mockingbird though. Unless I’m mixing it up with another one. But I don’t think I saw Old Yeller until later.
I didn’t even read/watch Old Yeller as a kid but rabies showed up in some other things I read - maybe one of the Carol Ryrie Brink books? or one about a raccoon? In any case it was serious and sad but not “the whole class is sobbing” level of upset.
I’m not even mad about All Summer In A Day the way I am about The Red Pony because I could tell that Bradbury was ON MY SIDE. I’m *still* mad about The Red Pony.
I am still in favor of eschewing needlessly upsetting stories. I cannot think of one useful lesson I took away from Steinbeck’s “The Red Pony,” and I am a BIG fan of “Does The Dog Die?” There’s actually a point to the upset in Old Yeller as most kids DON’T encounter rabies. Other ones less so.
Eh, there’s an argument for not pushing them on kids, but kids don’t need to be prevented from accessing potentially upsetting stories. Dealing with being upset by stories is an important life skill to develop, and fiction is a great way to build resilience in a safe context.
I don’t think the exposure to upsetting media needs to happen in an absence of content warnings, but, it’s important to be able to handle upsetting things that happen in life without completely falling apart, and I think media is a great way to work on that without *actually* being traumatized.
yes! And I was fine with sobbing over Snowmane’s death in LOTR at age nine (and if I ever need to induce tears I just have to remember the epitaph, 45 years later). But there was CONTEXT for that.
Prevented from accessing, absolutely not. But some things do NOT need to be class assignments. The Red Pony may have a young boy protagonist but it was NOT written for a middle school audience and I don’t think it teaches anything useful! It’s just miserable.
Very fair! Class assignments are definitely different from exposure via “it’s at the library and the kid decides to read it on their own initiative”.
I do think it’s ok for class-assigned media to be upsetting, BUT it needs educational value, & picks should be given serious consideration. So many assignments are bad. I had to read Ayn Rand & Lord of the Flies & just. WHO decided that THOSE were “important literature” over The Color Purple, etc?
🤬🤬🤬 DEFINITELY Catcher in the Rye is another one that doesn’t need to be in the high school canon, unless the teacher is VERY good at giving context - it’s a period piece now and the world is NOT LIKE THAT and if you want to explore a kid’s reaction to a sibling’s death better options exist.
The curriculum definitely needs updating!
Indeed. I also think it’s PAST time to take Lord of the Flies out of the curriculum. Too many little rotters treat it like an instruction manual.
And in one real life case, it didn't happen like that amyway! lithub.com/what-lord-of...
I’ve heard it said, and I concur, that calling Lord of the Flies a treatise on human nature is wildly wrong, but it IS reasonably accurate as a treatise on the nature of upper-class British white boys. An excess of privilege and entitlement warps the soul starting at a young age.
Ha, jinx!
IMO, there’s also another issue: While some stories have a point to the upset, and that should be a factor in whether or not they’re taught in school, by middle school, nearly all taught books are (or were when I was in school, and seem to still be) upsetting on purpose. WHY?!
I still remember the discussion with a friend about how her middle school kid didn't like reading She was baffled and wanted suggestions I asked about what she was reading in school Current book: When Dad Killed Mom I mean, I know it's important stuff and all ... I recommended she try Diane Duane
I am always at a loss for making recommendations as my kid (now grown) is a hyperlexic kid of two hyperlexic parents and all of us were ALWAYS reading, though bitching heartily about some of the assigned selections.
Yeah, same. I taught myself to read before I was 3 years old (parents figured out I’d done it when I read ahead in The Hobbit and blurted out a spoiler from the next page, which happened when I was 3, clearly I could read before that moment but I can’t quantify exactly when I first gained the skill)
So there was no chance of bad school-assigned books putting me off reading, I’d already devoured the entire kids section of the library (not a tiny library) by fifth grade & my parents had given up on keeping me out of the teen & adult sections & settled for banning me from the romance section only.
But that doesn’t mean I didn’t fucking hate some of the assigned reading and bitch heartily about it! I figure I had more basis than most for the bitching, too, bc I had such a broad basis for comparison already!
My parents never bothered banning me from any part of the library, probably partly because they knew that would just encourage me, but more because they (correctly) figured that stuff I read that they thought was inappropriate was more likely to be individual books from more general sections.
My mom, who almost never restricted my reading, asked me to refrain from reading Judy Blume’s “Forever” when I was 9, but by the time I was 10 she was letting me poach her mysteries and thrillers from the library even if they had sex scenes.
Mine was me, not quite two, refusing to get off the hood of my aunt & uncle’s car because I was reading the inspection sticker. “You are not,” they said. “State of New Jersey Department of Motor Vehicles,” I said. “Okay, you’ve read it, now get down from there,” they said.
Yeah I was probably reading at least at a basic level by 2, to be capable of reading faster than reading-aloud speed in Tolkien by 3. I just have no marker events to prove it!
I have recommendations from a real live middle schooler if those are of interest: bsky.app/profile/rivi...
Upsetting or just plain unpleasant. It's that notion that if it's enjoyable it can't be Literature. Which is completely bullshit, imo.
I feel like assigning books this way doesn’t teach kids that some books (like some times in life!) are sad, but often good and important; it just teaches them that books are depressing, and that they shouldn’t bother getting attached to the characters, because they will inevitably die.
(Honestly, the main thing I got out of “The Red Pony” was that it was my introduction to what became my permanent feeling about Steinbeck: “this book is not enjoyable enough to be this depressing.” Which is, to be fair, valid literary criticism. But I don’t think it’s what my teacher was going for.)
I didn’t have to read The Red Pony, but Grapes of Wrath gave me very much the same feeling about Steinbeck.
I started The Grapes of Wrath (on my own, not for school) in my late teens, and it just solidified the feeling I already had.
And then there was Hemingway, in whose writing the “paid by the word” is painfully apparent.
The only Steinbeck I actually ENJOYED was Travels With Charley.
For context: we also read books in middle school that focused on bad stuff happening, but a) sometimes that was the point of the story (as opposed to it just randomly being “and then the dog died”), and b) there was good/hopeful/uplifting stuff, too. So you CAN teach books with hard stuff in them.
ISTG the books we read in my Hebrew school Holocaust Lit class were less depressing than most of the middle school assigned reading! (Okay hard to get worse than Night, but we also had The Endless Steppe and All But My Life which were much more bearable.)
Damned if I know.
We need a new, updated rabies horror story with less racism.
I think ‘28 days later’ based their virus on rabies but it got reworked into ‘scary lab escape’ and took the edge off.
we could also let 11-12-year-olds discover Cujo, sure it’s not entirely age-appropriate but really compared to Flowers in the Attic it’s pretty mild
I was thinking something about an anti vaxxer who gets killed by their rabid cat or something to really push the point home. I feel Cujo just made people scared of Saint Bernards, I have still never read it, but when people mention it they are more likely to mention Saint Bernards than rabies.
Cujo was a very nice dog who got slightly injured by a rabid bat and the parts written from the DOG’s POV (bees in his head!) were absolutely heartbreaking this is why I said book, not movie, the book makes it very clear what the problem was
We need to get booktok into Cujo somehow.
maybe if we reminded them of Frankenberry Poop? Which was absolutely real, and inspired the ad campaign failure in the book www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the...
I never knew!
I am fairly sure that’s why the only sugar cereals my mom ever allowed didn’t have coloring! Honeycomb and Super Sugar Crisp were allowed.
Friend was talking about a business-consulting gig he's turned down, which would've been deciding who to fire and fire them. "Gotta shoot your own dog."
My Dad took one of those jobs definitely wasn’t worth it. The last guy fired in one of those restructuring sweeps is the guy who did the firing. Only permitted to break things, not rebuild them.
They do not have a realistic understanding of what autism is. To them, autism is just the new "polite" way to say r**ard, which of course actually means not worth living to them.
I was just thinking about this. I fantasize about people being "honest" about it & identifying themselves so we could, I don't know, test if they were a piñata by hitting them repeatedly with sticks until candy comes out. ISTG this loud eugenicist ableism is going to give me a stroke.
The problem with that idea is it requires they first *self* identify, which most of them never will. They think they're good christian folk who care about everyone. They ignore that they think some people just shouldn't exist. (cognitive dissonance? never met her)
As a middle school teacher, i can tell you it isn’t even said or meant politely.
Yeah, "polite" only in the sense they aren't saying the other word, but they absolutely mean it the same, yeah.
My dog has had an allergic inflammatory reaction to her shots for the last three years and I just take the week after off now to watch her bc who tf skips rabies vax?? People are the worst. (We did finally find a med routine to mostly stop the reaction thankfully)
DOG: [chases tail] FOOL: "Omigosh, he's stimming!" [weeps]
I do say that about some of my Jack Russell's behaviors.
Forget the mask, I'm just going to spend the day hyperventilating into this paper bag. Is it outlandish, or even "cold", to suggest that society has been shielding these folks from natural selection for far too long?
FYI for anyone else whose lungs hates going from "warm inside to cold outside" temp changes: wearing a mask really make the shift easier.