hard disagree. in 2014? maybe. but at this point these ideas are essentially mainstream and I'm not sure how else we combat them at this point except for engaging with them directly?
Replies
Exactly
jul 22, 2025, 12:36 pm • 0 0 • view
like one shitty dude getting $15k does not in any way negate literally millions of people FINALLY being exposed to effective counters of what *highly* insular and extremely popular podcasters have been spewing for a decade..... that's pretty important work isn't it?
jul 22, 2025, 12:19 pm • 5 0 • view
these audiences are never going to realize how absurd the fascistic ideals they're playing to are until someone like medhi brings them face to face with it maybe the format isnt ideal but I don't understand how we don't all see yet that "just ignore them and they'll go away" just makes things worse
jul 22, 2025, 12:19 pm • 0 0 • view
there's other options than platforming them to fight these ideas. I feel like we've already seen that "surely people will take away that this viewpoint is absurd" isn't a given. you can just promote good ideas instead of putting good and bad on stage and expecting people to favor the good
jul 22, 2025, 12:44 pm • 8 0 • view
there are no givens in a debate. will some people come away thinking "wow, that self-avowed fascist seemed like a very smart and reasonable guy"? maybe. but you think more people will have that takeaway than "that guy literally said he's a fascist, so his ideas are probably fascistic"
jul 22, 2025, 12:50 pm • 0 0 • view
like right wing podcasters have been fighting tooth and nail for a decade to convince people that everyone calling them fascists are hysterical and that they're actually just totally reasonable pragmatists. I'm really surprised people aren't seeing the value in someone openly admitting it in public.
jul 22, 2025, 12:50 pm • 0 0 • view
and sure, you *can* "just promote good ideas" ....but there's been great people doing that for a LONG time and it's simply not had the reach that right wing podcasts or these types of debates do. again, the left has been doing "just leave them alone and they'll go away" and it clearly doesn't work.
jul 22, 2025, 12:50 pm • 0 0 • view
yes, I do because being honest most of America couldn't define fascism to you and doesn't think the country is heading that way. especially in the groups that this outreach is supposed to impact. the right wing has moved on from fighting these terms and now you have a Fox New host
jul 22, 2025, 1:52 pm • 0 0 • view
joking they should reclaim the word "Nazi". the good people promoting good ideas haven't been as good at playing the game as the right wing grifters since the 2010s which is the bigger issue. it always stands out to me that the right wing podcasts largely don't care about appealing to the left
jul 22, 2025, 1:52 pm • 0 0 • view
but always there has to be some effort from the left to debate and reach out to this audience and what good has it measurably done. I didn't say leave them alone and they'll go away I said there's better options that letting the right wing determine the battlefield
jul 22, 2025, 1:52 pm • 0 0 • view
I mean I think that can largely be explained by the fact that right wing media is a huge grift and left wing media is largely grassroots supported and has an actual ideological goal. right wingers don't try to appeal to the left, because they don't care to, because their goal is to grift.
jul 22, 2025, 2:01 pm • 0 0 • view
Directionality is never, ever obvious, but generations if not a couple centuries of people raised on "We hold these truths to be self-evident" takes a while to undo.
jul 22, 2025, 12:52 pm • 0 0 • view
Lol
jul 22, 2025, 12:37 pm • 1 0 • view
How about by ruining their lives? By killing them? Can we stop pretending these people have normal, debatable viewpoints? When you platform this bullshit you are presenting it as "the other side" as though it's totally reasonable. How has that worked out for us so far in this country?
jul 22, 2025, 12:33 pm • 2 0 • view
I'm also not sure what you mean by "how has that worked out for us so far" because "don't engage with them, leave them alone and they'll go away" has far and away been the predominant disposition towards these ideals for a decade.........sooooo yeah, how HAS that worked out for us so far?
jul 22, 2025, 12:37 pm • 0 0 • view
Really?? Is that how you see it? Because from here it seems to me like US media has done a whole lot more sharing of these ideas than "don't engage".
jul 22, 2025, 12:40 pm • 1 0 • view
...........yes that's a very measured and realistic alternative. thanks! (palantir if you're listening this is sarcasm)
jul 22, 2025, 12:35 pm • 0 0 • view
I'm tired of this "measured take" garbage. They have taken over the country, people espousing these beliefs are taking away MY PEOPLE and sending them to fucking concentration camps and you want us to be measured? To what? Fucking invite them onto a podcast to debate? No. Fuck this.
jul 22, 2025, 12:37 pm • 1 0 • view
ok, well what about realistic? and yeah, my people too. you don't think I'm scared out of my fucking mind on a daily basis? you think you're the only one? it's kinda gross that you think that simply because I disagree with you on praxis that I can't appreciate the gravity of the situation.
jul 22, 2025, 12:40 pm • 0 0 • view
Oh you think its gross I'm so sorry. I think its gross that while these people orchestrate ethnic cleansing, the best we can do is say "no lets let them talk and debate them".
jul 22, 2025, 12:42 pm • 1 0 • view
I never said that's "the best we can do." I said I think it does more harm than good to just leave these people alone, because that's what the left has been doing for a decade, and now we're here.
jul 22, 2025, 12:44 pm • 0 0 • view
And I mean, what has happened after they came on that video and were completely picked apart? One guy supposedly is fired. Now he'll get 20k and is being given the red carpet to grift on other nazi podcasts, while Jubilee makes bank off this. They certainly dgaf. This is not working.
jul 22, 2025, 12:36 pm • 1 0 • view
how do you know it's not working? it doesn't have the same immediate effect as "that guy just made a bunch of money," but I'm not sure what kind of immediate result you expect to see from something of which the intent is to simply reframe the conversation and address ideas....?
jul 22, 2025, 12:39 pm • 0 0 • view
BECAUSE A FUCKING EUGENICIST NAZI IS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
jul 22, 2025, 12:41 pm • 1 0 • view
that..... does not address my question?
jul 22, 2025, 12:43 pm • 0 0 • view
You asked me "how do you know its not working"? Because this whole "give both sides a platform to present the illusion that they're equally reasonable" has been all over US media for longer than either of us have been alive. And yet, there he is. I'm done. Nazis should die. Argue with yourself.
jul 22, 2025, 12:48 pm • 3 0 • view
in this form? in this media environment? no, it really hasn't. we're not talking about the msm sanewashing that has been happening for that long, were talking about extremely popular internet personas being faced directly with effective rebuttals head on (or not).
jul 22, 2025, 12:56 pm • 0 0 • view
because in THAT environment the predominant position on the left *absolutely* has been "stand real still and don't make any noise and they'll just go away." obviously, they haven't.
jul 22, 2025, 12:56 pm • 0 0 • view
I feel like this is also pretty self-evident when you look at how the right wing internet media approaches the concept of debate with ACTUAL effective debaters like sam seder... it was basically a running meme for years that they were all terrified of him, because they were.
jul 22, 2025, 12:56 pm • 0 0 • view
because it is to THEIR advantage for their bullshit to go unchallenged. Steven Crowder literally humiliated himself running away from Seder. Tim Pools audience was mad at him because he was so bad at responding to Sam's arguments when he went on his show.
jul 22, 2025, 12:56 pm • 0 0 • view
Engage them with a kick in the teeth.
jul 22, 2025, 2:25 pm • 0 0 • view
I mean, ok. but unfortunately tim pool has like a $5M compound and he's probably going to keep spewing bullshit regardless of how many people are willing to do that. sooo that's kind of where we're at 🤷
jul 22, 2025, 2:35 pm • 0 0 • view
jul 22, 2025, 10:00 pm • 0 0 • view