Viz., by the arbitrary and unequal exercise of power by one person over another The way to achieve liberty, then, is through a democratic leviathan that, within certain individual-rights limits, allows people to exercise power over one another on equal and reciprocal terms
PREVENTING the democratic leviathan from exercising power over something it ought to be able to regulate is as much a restriction of liberty as is the reverse
to an extent liberalism is about having the right to live in a well-ordered society *and* a free one, and "no galaxy brain shit" is a necessary rule for both directions
You actually cannot be meaningfully free except in a society organized according to (democratic) laws!
Sex can impose a social cost due to its spread of some very deadly diseases, HIV chief among them, and in particular among gay people. I see no obvious individual right to non-procreational sex acts, even if I think there should be one. Procreation? Sure. But casual sex? Not obvious to me.
Ergo, we should ban gay sex. This is the point at which I would say "people enjoy it, that counts for something, and it would therefore be deeply illiberal to ban gay sex." But I have recently learned that liberalism is merely a reciprocal exercise of power under a democratic leviathan!
Therefore, I am forced to conclude, thanks to my lesson on liberalism from Mr. Alit-- err... Mr. Black, that a ban on gay sex is perfectly in keeping with liberal society.
I'm starting to tire of this conversation, so I'm just gonna put out there that I think the disanalogy between guns and gay sex is pretty obvious
Not obvious to me. Clearly we're not talking about an individual right to the pursuit of happiness (in the modern meaning), because that would cover both. And if we're enumerating a list of rights that includes non-procreational sex, seems like we're getting so specific as to be arbitrary.
(FWIW, I don't think there's an individual right to gun ownership either). I'm also tiring of this conversation, so I'll leave it at that and refrain from responding to whatever you say next, if you want the last word.
Nah I'm good