[ literally my point is that i don't wanna talk about or see this topic, and i see the perpetuation of it as harmful due to just sending harassment people's way and further stigmatizing innocent traits about someone (someone mentioned the first chunk of the video is just kinkshaming). ]
Counter point: This group that Sam funds has been traumatizing and abusing people for over a decade now. They. Are. Dangerous. You would know this, if you bothered to do ANY research. The more people who are aware of the danger, the less likely people are to fall victim to it.
NO of course no one should harass them. But pretending that what has been going on for a DECADE hasn't been happening, pretending that it still isn't on-going... is to ENABLE and ENCOURAGE that same abuse. That is what you are doing. You are an enabler of grooming and abuse.
Back to my original point: Defend or debunk the **specific** accusations of the group that Sam funds. Tell my why it's actually cool that they pushed someone to attempt suicide twice and that they wish that person was successful. Go on. Don't be shy.
I know you people aren't arguing that actually it's fine that Trump was friends with Epstein and had major financial ties to Epstein. That it's not suspicious that Trump was regularly in the same room with all the sexual abuse Epstein did. If Trump was a "cringe" furry, would you defend him too?
[ it's not cool? like at all? i was never defending their actions, just simply like not caring, and with the primary source on a lot of this stuff being a kinkshamey lolcow-style video and kiwifarms, i just. don't wanna poison my brain with subtle bigotry to learn a drama i don't care about. ]
Kiwifarms nor the fucking lagovirt video are not the fucking primary source oh my fucking god. The primary source are the actual victims. Kiwifarms only reacted to what the victims were talking about, they did not make it up.
Scattered posts on tumblr of the victims talking about the situation over the years, archives victims have made of public posts the group has made, archived discord logs. That's the fucking primary source. A disconnected collection of victims and fucked shit the group has said over the years.
AGAIN: YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IF YOU BOTHERED TO DO ANY RESEARCH BEFORE DEFENDING THESE NOTORIOUS CHILD PREDATORS. Here it is, yet again, I am linking the website victims made to compile all of the actual primary sources into a single location: floraverseisacult.com
When you accuse people who are talking about what this group has done of being motivated in bigotry that you are ultimately telling /other/ queer neurodivergent people to "shut up and take the abuse because holding queer neurodivergent abusers to account or warning others about them is bigoted"
Genuine question are you a real person? Because you are making arguments that remind me of transphobic/homophobic 4channers pretending to be queer and arguing that MAPS (pedophiles) are an actual part of the queer community and to have "map pride". It's not different from what you are arguing.
[ some stranger did some shit. cool. happy for you or sorry that happened. i don't care what chris-chan did, i don't care what samael did, i don't care what any lolcow did, even if it's straight up murder, they are random strangers and their public mockery mostly rides on bigotry before all else. ]
[ @faolanwolf.bsky.social i don't think this should be not talked about!! serious exploitation groups are things that should be warned about. i just don't want to learn about it it in the format of someone doing hateful lolcowing about That Cringe Fatfur In UT, shit's a poisoned video. ]
Here I am, back to saying if you refuse to do ANY research into a situation then you should not discuss or discourage discussion on it. Because that's how you end up arguing that a group that pushed someone to attempt suicide twice, a group that has groomed children, shouldn't be warned about.
(Which to be clear. You did that. You argued it's rooted in bigotry to warn others about the dangers of a group that enabled and protected a man who tried to make BEASTIALITY CHILD PORN. You did that because you refused to do any research, and defended something you did not understand.)
Idc if the way you found out that the situation exists in the first place is because of a shitty video or the fruit site. Neither should be used as sources. But other sources are available with a simple google search. But you didn't want to do do that, and you send abhorrent things because of it.
[ i am sorry. callout and lolcow cultures have done irreparable damage to queer and kink and furry communities, and as a result i had an immediate feeling of repulsion the moment i first saw anything of this via a lolcow-type video about it. i should be more mindful of genuine victims. ]
[ i don't want to hear about people *as lolcows*. because lolcow culture is innately toxic, and i don't want to learn any toxic mindsets from that culture if i don't have to. ]
i'd be fine with a video about Samael's Child Grooming Ring, giving his history with undertale and fatfur stuff as simply context for who samael is... not so much okay with the video that *does* exist on the topic, this Cringe Undertale Fatfur Lolcow Is A Pedophile shit serving a side of hate. ]
[ ...all being said and done, i am not going to be in contact with samael at any point, so learning about such a drama would only serve as entertainment for me, like an hbomberguy video :p. and i'd watch that, sure! and care as a result. but, not my place so, yall help whatever victims there are ❤️ ]
[ sorry for upsetting you and making it come off like i don't care about predatory groups and want them to just be ignored. it's not that! it's just an intense aversion to lolcow culture, and a fear of that culture massively skewing facts, related or not, and pushing toxicity as a result. ]
[ @antithess.bsky.social @ing you too in case you weren't notified for the thread this far down. i get now that there's serious stuff! it was the lolcow lens i was presented the drama through that made me want it out of my sight ASAP, and that was disrespectful, i see that and i am sorry. ]
Thank you but like, you gotta understand that this situation is not unique: Toxic groups like kiwifarms like "making lolcows" out of people who are genuinely dangerous. Yes, obviously, the place should never be used as a source, and they do make shit up.
But someone (or in this case, a group) being targeted by those freaks is not in it of itself reason to disregard evidence and testimonies of abuse caused by them. That's why you really need to do basic research to see if non lolcow sources exist (in this case they do) and how good those sources are.
It can never be "oh some freaks declared this person to be a lolcow so everything serious and bad that I hear about them is made up."
[ this is just one of the cases where i didn't wanna have to look into it to begin with 😞 and i wish it didn't get to the point where i'm in a discussion about it. youtu.be/k1BneeJTDcU welcome to the internet i guess... ]
[ speak out to protect the victims, and speak out for change to combat child predation in our society. educate, liberate. push to teach youth about sex and boundaries, and to provide them with safe and controlled spaces for sexual exploration and socialization through their teens. ]