Set aside the Constitution/search of private property. Section 287 of the Immigration and Nationality Act itself requires administrative warrants for ICE to even interrogate anyone about their citizenship unless they already have cause to believe that the person is "an alien"! Tell ICE to beat it.
The ICE slush fund just passed by Republicans pays bounties to these creeps. The resistance by the staff is gold. Fuck ICE.
So this was illegal from the jump. Then to actually ARREST anyone, ICE needs an administrative warrant OR probable cause that they've violated US immigration AND reason to believe that the person will escape before they can get a warrant, highly improbable with this guy locked inside the facility.
I wonder if arrests of citizen heros counts towards their quota?
Do they have counsel?
Probably not counsel sufficiently capable of handling this case against this evil regime.
And do they have a go fund me if they need one? I’m sure many would be happy to donate.
📌
I think money should go to the men profiled/kidnapped White people need to be the bodies between fascism and targets of trump, should pay for it when needed and white money needs to be used to back the opposition to this nightmare caused by white supremacy. It's the least we can do as white people.
Making some real assumptions about what these folks can and cannot afford to pay for on their own, based on skin color. Which is kinda like racial profiling, when you think about it.
Not really. None of these expenses were expected and legal expenses are rarely cheap.
You checked, say, hospital orderlies' salaries lately? Also, decent criminal lawyers with an immigration subspecialty, their hourly rates?
They also both have Hispanic last names, and basically anyone who knows anything about health care knows there's a 1 in 3 chance that they're here on work visas, so the assumption that they are being "coddled" and have no skin in the game is pretty fucking offensive.
That is dumb. To assume because someone is white they make enough money to afford to pay for expensive attorneys to cover their persecution by a fascist government is a dumb thing to do. We should support financially or otherwise anyone who throws themselves between fascists and their prey.
It isn’t a zero sum game. You can support both the people being targeted and the people working to protect them. Also, how do you even know those surgery center workers are white?
I don't mean this as an attack on your altruism
In the context where you shared it, it does come off that way
As a white person who has similar sentiments for fellow white people, I took his (perhaps too blunt) message as a calling on white people to get into action, fix this white problem (fascism, racism, etc), and use our privilege, bodies, and the safety our skin affords us to do the right thing by our
POC neighbors. So I think it was meant to be directed more to white people, but that was not clear. Of course, if POC want to donate to a fund or be active in the resistance, we stand by them and appreciate their involvement and experiences.
Perhaps we should look at it as where is our privilege. I am a brown US citizen. I will put myself in the way when i can to help someone, knowing i have access to money, & access to people in power &white people with money & access and privilege. We should all consider that. There are more of us.
Exactly. A content creator I follow in my deconstruction journey asked a question: What strengths do white women have that we can use at our disposal? And eventually I realized, we are perfect as the front line of protests and potential officer/proudboy interactions, and probably much less
likely than any other demographic to be assaulted, beaten, arrested, etc. When we boldly use our voices and stand firm, at best we are considered "mama bears" and at worst we are "Karens." We are hardly seen as physical threats, but more so psychological ones I gather. So we will use it!
I guess that's tough s***. White people have been coddled enough
“I don’t mean it as an attack on your altruism….” *Procedes to attack people’s altruism because he (wrongly) assumes the people doing the good deed were white*
Did you actually check to see if the people being charged were white before saying any of this, or...?
Yeah I'm blocking him on general principles
...& even if those being charged are white, Phoenix's premise is absurd: offering aid to a medical assistant showing more backbone than most of our elected officials is hardly "coddling" white people. We know nothing about those staffers' lives, only that they did right & are being punished for it.
They’re both Latiné, btw,
I don't know if you're a troll or a bot so I won't engage with you further. I'll just say for others who see this, these are real people in a scary situation. Defending these charges may bankrupt them. Courage begets more courage and they deserve our support if there's an outlet for doing so
Nothing says true advocacy like fuck those who did the right thing and are being targeted if they are the wrong skin color right? You can just say you have no idea how to actually build support for things and just want to be pure as the world burns....will save you time posting if nothing else.
Are these people still in custody?
"Even if there was an emergency, the officers still needed probable cause of an offense to enter private property, and they have already admitted that they did not have probable cause. No, racially profiling landscapers doesn't count." @unroll.bsky.social Unroll please
Cops lie constantly. Assume anything claimed by a cop that isn’t supported by video or non-cop witnesses is 100% bullshit, and you’ll rarely go wrong.
@unroll.skywriter.blue Thank you
The thread as a shareable webpage: https://skywriter.blue/pages/did:plc:zhcfq6acrvb6ermtjt644w2n/post/3luxa57nyxs2r.
Given that he ran when he saw ICE officers, I'd think that would be sufficient for PC. If the officers had left to get a warrant, the guy would be gone.
You could think that, but you'd be wrong.
if it's a "consensual encounter" as described by dhs, fleeing isn't probable cause. it's not consensual if you're not allowed to leave
Saying "I don't want to talk to you" and fleeing are two very different things.
you don't have to tell cops anything if you're not even being detained. again, if you're not allowed to leave, it's not a consensual encounter
Certainly. But if you run on seeing them, that supports probable cause. That's simply a fact in the criminal context - what I'm trying to look up is whether flight alone supports arrest in the immigration context.
nah, running away from a consensual encounter is not probable cause. you don't magically have evidence of a crime just because someone is not interested in interacting with you in any way and correctly sees you as a violent threat
In the criminal context, it's one factor that together with others creates PC. "an individual, when approached, has a right to ignore the police and go about his business. Unprovoked flight is the exact opposite of "going about one's business."" supreme.justia.com/cases/federa...
"together with others" is an important detail. in itself, flight is not probable cause
and in a situation where the person fleeing reasonably fears for their safety, fleeing is absolutely "going about one's business" it's completely reasonable to run away from violent criminals
That's what I said from the start - in the criminal context, flight is one factor that can support PC. Not sure whether it suffices in the immigration context.
If you saw masked human traffickers, wouldn't you run?
www.usatoday.com/story/news/n... This article seems to imply that ICE agents went back later to stake out the surgery center and arrest the staff members. Is that correct? Does that mean they got a warrant or a grand jury indictment?
Healthcare locations are also more regulated so police can’t do stuff like that legally. In this case it was even for a less valid than most. This article👇 is a little old but the situation is similar without the blood draw part. www.foxnews.com/us/utah-nurs...
The law needs to be made clear to those of us willing to help folks. Clear cut instructions on what to do if ICE agents show up at your job.
That's saying they *don't* need a warrant to question people.
from David's post "unless they already have cause to believe that the person is "an alien"!" from the screenshot: "person believed to be an alien" Does merely fleeing constitute a reasonable belief the person is an alien? I'm white. If I fled, does that still mean they have cause?
If it doesn't apply to me, then it must be the case that fleeing PLUS Hispanic is what constitutes the basis of the belief that the person is an alien. I'm not a lawyer, but boy that sure seems like racial profiling to me.
Looks like flight is enough for reasonable suspicion, which justifies brief detention to inquire whether the person is an alien.
"Headlong flight-wherever it occurs-is the consummate act of evasion: It is not necessarily indicative of wrongdoing, but it is certainly suggestive of such" And that was held enough for reasonable suspicion. supreme.justia.com/cases/federa...
So by their own rules they do not have the right to approach anyone that they do not already know the name of. Because how can you even suspect someone is an illegal alien if you do not know who they are? I can see maybe at the border and the officer saw them crossing at an unauthorized point.