Not sure how things went during the over 12,000 pro palestine/anti genocide demos in the US. But here in the UK and across Europe, tens of millions spoke out against our government's support for Israel. And "liberals" absolutely do protest against war. What we don't like is the president of the 1/2
2/2 USA meeting the aggressor in the ukraine war and not inviting the Ukrainian president to "peace" talks. Anyhoo, the grown ups are at the table now.
Who are these grown ups you speak of?
Not that fascist prick Trump.
Obviously not. So who?
Oh I dunno, how about the leaders of practically every European country who think it's vital that the person leading the country, which is the victim of a brutal and illegal invasion, is at the table and not being coerced into giving up his mineral wealth for protections that the US is obligated 1/2
2/2 to provide, under the terms of the NPT and Budapest memorandum it signed in 1994. The latter doc is the really important 1 here.
The Budapest Memorandum enshrined Ukrainian neutrality - did NATO respect that? It also guaranteed Ukrainian sovereignty and banned economic coercion. When the US sponsored a neo-Nazi led coup in Ukraine and imposed sanctions on Belarus, where were those honoured?
Tell me, if you can take your head from putin's arse long enough, which country was the first and only one to break the terms of the BM, not once but twice? Can you honestly blame Zalenskyy for not having any trust in Putin? BM actually didn't "enshrine neutrality" it specifically prohibited 1/2
2/2 Russia, the UK, and France from threatening military action and financial coerscion against Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Trump has now also broken those terms. No NATO country has.
"Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind." - Sanctions are economic coercion..
1. The US breached the Budapest Memorandum when it violated Ukrainian sovereignty by meddling directly in the 2004 election. It further breached the terms when it sponsored a neo-Nazi led coup that toppled a democratically elected president in 2014. 2. The US also breached the memorandum..
If the USA "meddled" in 2004, so did Russia, they supported the Yanukovych campaign. The difference is, the USA was supporting democratic elections, there was no attack on a sovereign country, unlike Russias 2 invasions.
namely the guarantee not to economically coerce by imposing sanctions on Belarus in 2011. 3. On the subject of trust. Ex-Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko stated that Ukraine never intended to honour the terms of the Minsk 2 agreement that it signed. This was confirmed by Angela Merkel..
So when you said grownups you actually meant warmongers.
What is the peace plan of those European countries?
I think he is referring to the European leaders, you know the same ones who enabled that genocide I referred to. The same Europeans whose "peace plan" consists of 3 year old slogans that have saw hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians die in a war it can't win.
And 3 years later, Russia haven't won, they have largely failed in their "special operations" even having to rely on help from NK. Do I agree with the war? No, absolutely not. But I do agree that Ukraine has the right to defend their sovereignty against invasion.
A US/NATO proxy war.
You don't actually believe that NK crap do you? You do know that Russian Telegram channels find that all hilarious? Russia is playing a long game in Ukraine. It has bettered everything NATO has thrown in, and sanctions have failed and backfired on Europe. One thing you should realize..
This war was provoked by the US to destabilize the Russian Federation. The war was to serve as a justification for crippling sanctions that would do the job, Ukraine was never meant to win a battlefield war as the US never thought it would need to. thegrayzone.substack.com/p/zelensky-d...
The US bypassed Zelensky as Zelensky stated himself that he had no interest in peace talks, he even pushed through a law in Ukraine making direct talks with Russia illegal. And as for grown-ups, what the neoliberal European clowns are insisting is what they've insisted on from the beginning..
The US had absolutely no bloody right not to include Zalenskyy. You remember him, right? The president of the invaded country, who you seem to want to roll over and cede at least half of his country's mineral wealth to a fucking racketeer. Peace talks MUST involve both parties.
You know it will be illegal in Ukraine for Zelensky to attend peace talks, why did he pass that law if he was interested in negotiations? Zelensky only became interested in negotiations when he realised he was being excluded. He has no interest due to what will come out when he is out of power.
A completely unrealistic set of demands that bear no relation at all to reality. They have nothing new. Even as Ukraine loses this war in an ocean of blood, they're insisting on the full recovery of territory and the defeat of Russia. That's not grown up. Its callous lunacy.
Having participated in many anti-genocide protests while the left certainly participated, a surprising amount of liberals chose not to, especially in the US. Even among those that did there was an odd refusal to acknowledge the role of the US, and that's even worse since Trump won.
Here in the UK and in Europe, every single one of the demos were organised by left wing and liberal groups, while the right either stayed away or attacked them. Mainly because it was the right who openly supported Israel's continued genocide against Palestinians. It suits their hatred of Muslims.
Are you including the Labour Party in that "right"?