Commenters on BBC News site tonight saying things like 'just shows protest does work, but it's still only half measures. Vote Reform'. Bravo, Keir. 👏👏👏
Scottish, teacher of high school politics and sociology
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Commenters on BBC News site tonight saying things like 'just shows protest does work, but it's still only half measures. Vote Reform'. Bravo, Keir. 👏👏👏
It's really bizarre. Principles aside, why would this ever work as a strategy? Can't get my head around it. He seems intent on trying to appeal to reform voters at the expense of nearly all the rest of his support base. And it's so obviously not working, at all.
He never ever responds with a balanced take, or corrects falsehoods or highlights any positives of immigration. It's really pathetic. He is enabling a situation where some really dangerous rhetoric is becoming normalised.
Why isn't he realising this? When it seems really obvious to everyone else??
Starmer 'put it out there' that the UK could become a 'nation of strangers'? Of course rhetoric matters. Policies to tackle inequality won't be supported whilst everyone is convinced that immigration is the cause of all ills. Farage /daily mail are controlling the agenda and labour is letting them.
No I'm going with what I actually saw Keir Starmer saying. And it was nothing like this.
They're a bit late don't you think? This wasn't even remotely their rhetoric until fairly recently. Nearly 3 years ago would've been better.
This picture is the narrative labour could be putting out there. They never highlight the positives or dispel the misinformation or try to counteract the hysteria when it comes to immigration.
In other countries families are still traditionally larger and life expectancy not be as high? So they do not have the same issue we have. Creating hysteria about immigration because of some hypothetical global scenario that might or might not occur in a few centuries time seems a bit silly too.
We have falling birth rates? Certainly in Scotland the projections are a growing elderly and falling working age. We are literally short of workers! Should I just have more babies than I want instead? And give up my own career?
Agree, no point blaming a specific group (although it is overwhelmingly older people who voted for Brexit and bojo). It's just a total lazy arrogant attitude and theres no excuse - information is out there and easily accessible. They just can't be arsed.
She doesn't mind the foreigners in Spain because they're white. Good riddance.
I had them at my door twice during Hamilton by election. I said they need to be much more direct and point out what people will lose as soon as labour are in (tuition fees, prescriptions, top up benefits, god knows what else). They said they don't want to do negative campaigning 🤦🏻♀️
I can't work out if you're being serious or not 😂
😂 ok
😂 are you a bot? That's malfunctioned? You keep repeating yourself?
😂 ok good chat 👍
What comment?
And also saying the guardian lies then saying because something isn't in the article I must be lying is very odd logic
Jeezo there's pictures of it is that enough?! And multiple other news reports. Unfortunately for those that actually aren't racist and just concerned about immigration this is who you're sharing a bed with 🤷
The people on this march opposing immigration holding 'kill em all' signs or making nazi salutes or saying 'there ain't no black in the union jack' are definitely racist though aren't they?
Do you see what's wrong here @teamlabouruk.bsky.social ?
Did you see the flags saying 'kill em all'?
Although I absolutely agree, once you start charging for the pursuit of knowledge it is inevitable it becomes more transactional.
A woman was arrested in Glasgow today for wearing a T-shirt that said "Palestine - time for action" under terrorism legislation. Meanwhile this guy was allowed to stand outside an Asylum Seekers hostel today in Falkirk. Who's terrorising who? 🤔🤔🤔 Source @yesscotlandsfuture.bsky.social
The woman wearing a pink Floyd t-shirt I wonder what Roger waters would think of her standing next to that banner
Yep I've never been so embarrassed to be Scottish seeing this on national news, I thought we were above this garbage but obviously not.
Yes anyone arguing these aren't racist protests is delusional.
Saying immigrants are from backwards countries = fine. Calling a fear of strangers xenophobia (a statement of fact) = not fine (apologies issues and content censored). What on earth is this country becoming.
It's a section of the programme that's opinion based anyway?! Usually religious and definitely from one person's perspective which is why they get a guest speaker in to do it every day! Editing retrospectively to censor it takes away the whole point surely and is really shocking from the BBC.
Yep I thought it was a particularly good one at the time!
I'm a teacher and have been off for 6 weeks (Scotland) so havent listened to BBC radio 'news' daily on my commute. It's been quite nice not hearing about small boats every single bloody day. It's become a national obsession and the BBC are as much to blame for that as daily mail etc.
I heard it this morning and can't believe the BBC have apologised. He said the technical name for a fear of strangers is xenophobia, he didn't directly call Jenkins xenophobic. Even if he did Thought for the Day is an opinion piece anyway. The BBC has actually edited it on BBC sounds?! Wtf
And why on earth would I spend my time doing that
You thinking people don't realise what being arrested involves isn't a fact 😂
Stand for election in 4 years time? I would imagine most have already written to their MPs as a first port of call.
I'd assume they do, for the reasons already explained. Not sure why you seem so certain they don't, it's coming across a tad patronising! Good on them sacrificing for others that can't afford to.
I'd imagine that's why older people are so highly represented in the arrests - they don't have to worry about future job applications, financial issues etc?
How do you suggest the public who don't agree with this law should get it changed?
I think this is the crux of the problem - I doubt he does believe in half of what he is doing and so it just looks like he has no genuinely principled stance on anything. A human rights lawyer proscribing a non violent protest group as terrorists? And refusing to condemn a genocide?
Watching hundreds of police officers being deployed to arrest pensioners because they have written words on bits of paper is an excellent way to show people why the group shouldn't have been proscribed and how ridiculous it is.
They aren't complaining about the number of arrests, I would imagine the aim was to get arrested to show how stupid the law is?
I think they are going hemorrhage MPs over the next few years. It must be almost impossible to face constituents and toe the party line too (on this and many other issues). I don't envy them I'd be off.
It's because they have no solid principles - they did this to look all hardline and decisive, completely overreacted and probably know now they have cocked up but can't admit it and do yet another U turn. It's the same pattern on repeat.
I don't think you're getting the point - they are protesting against it being proscribed a terrorist group in law. Are you suggesting that when a government creates a law it is then, by default, correct and permanent? Surely the law should, as much as possible, reflect society's shared values.
And everyone knows spending that money will in no way make anyone safer from anything. It is completely pointless because these people clearly aren't a threat. Where would the government draw the line? After 1000 arrests? 10000?
As a high school teacher it's clear most pupils will not bother doing work themselves if AI can do it for them. Duplicate this for uni students, busy employees, academics, etc. Just because it can be used for learning doesn't mean it will be. So yes, people might eventually stop using their brains.
What else to do when trump tries to manipulate the policy of other countries though? Eg should Canada change their plans to recognise Palestine to avoid tarriffs? What next? Surely it's not wise to be so economically dependant on one country that they can potentially set your policy agenda?
Even on completely unrelated news posts there's always a significant number of people bringing up small boats, it's become an obsession.
Why are Labour not pointing this out?
I can't believe it's now become ok for blatant racism to be proudly broadcast on TV like this, what have we come to 🤦🏻♀️. Would it still be broadcast-able if we swapped Muslims for followers of another religion?
Is this story true? Can anyone verify?
Have never been so disappointed in someone I previously really admired. Yes people can disagree with each other but I struggle to relate to anyone sympathetic to Israel's behaviour, moreso if they dismiss support for Palestine as because of some sort of lack of education on the matter 🤮
"I don't think Democratic candidates should take money from AIPAC or vote to fund military support for Israel anymore." "I would like to see talk about sanctioning Israeli government officials who use genocidal rhetoric or talk about ethnic cleansing openly.
Exactly and it's already years too late.
Although he is likely correct in terms of public opinion and radicalisation, explaining away genocide as simply some sort of error in strategy feels like its underplaying the overall fundamental long-term intentions of the Israeli government.
Around us we have pavements that are grassed, so small kids on bikes, scooter or roller skates, or people with buggies, are pretty much forced to go onto the actual road with cars. How on earth was this ever approved in terms of safety??
Airdropping aid whilst refusing to sanction or even strongly condemn the country that is directly causing the starvation 🤯
Yes, used disgusting bullying tactics to get him off his land including lying about him and trying to publicly humiliate him. I teach high school politics and taught a whole unit on public protest and power based on it. Still seems quite unreal he is now a 2nd time US president.
Israel has occupied Palestinian territories since 1967
16 year olds can vote in Scottish elections - for the Scottish parliament and local councils
Irrelevant. You said that now 16/17 year olds will be allowed to vote elections will be decided by social media. I suggested that social media is already very influential, but also that many of the other sources of info (that mainly older people use) are just as bad.
Quite a lot of people unfortunately.
*isn't any more accurate
Granted the actual data on the influence of social media on election results isn't very conclusive, but that's mainly because it's self-reporting and very hard to 'prove' influence. Also I would argue that using the Daily Mail and GB news as sources of info is any more accurate than using Tiktok.
I don't think it's a simple as that. It was old people that gave us Brexit and 14 years of conservatives.
They already are
About time! Already been happening in Scotland for years. Imagine expecting any citizen to pay tax but not have a vote.
Was just about to say this - we already have this and much more in Scotland and it certainly isn't thanks to Labour!
So? The issue isn't whether you like the group it's that it's been classed as a terrorist organisation when, according to Amnesty, the UN and many others, it does not pose a sufficient risk to be treated as a terrorist group.
Agree, I see very few people on this thread asking why we have got to this stage. A new party led by someone who got many more votes than Starmer and a very popular high profile MP. Not some fringe nutters, they speak for a lot of traditional labour voters. Maybe a bit of self reflection is needed.
Corbyn got more votes than Starmer though didn't he, by quite a margin in 2017 and with a much higher turnout too. Not really seeing how getting more votes whilst retaining principles is putting Tories in power?
You can't just indefinitely expect people to keep voting for a party that no longer works for them because the alternative is worse. Scotland did it for decades and then put a traditionally smaller party in power. It is possible.
Id do 20 days in prison in a heartbeat rather than take part in that
I don't think the current model in developed nations was ever sustainable - both parents need to work, support systems (childcare, earnings, housing) aren't sufficient. It's an economic model that will be a victim of it's own success. You can't have everyone working AND having babies.
I thought I made that obvious with my last comment, however this seems like a pointless conversation now because it isn't based on reality.
What an odd question. If the IDF weren't indiscriminately killing other people would I like them more? Ehm, yes?
It's genocide. And it needs to stop. You're really overcomplicating it.
Yes I think it's absolutely immoral how Israel has behaved over decades and yes I think they need to be stopped? Not sure what's hard to understand about that
And Israelis aren't fighting for their country, theyre fighting to take someone's else's. Apartheid and violent land grabs weren't enough.
No idea what you're talking about now. I think you've also just circled round to the point people are trying to make - Israel has no right to be outraged about people wishing death on their army because of the indiscriminate killing they have carried out. They lost any moral highground decades ago.
It's called political protest and it's absolutely legitimate to chant slogans as part of that and it's been done for a very long time? Nothing has been done to reign Israel in so yes people will do what they can to be heard and good on them for using their voice.
So what? I didn't say not Jews. Of course there are Jews in the IDF? What is your point here?
Exactly this. Why are people unable to understand - criticism of the IDF or Israel is NOT criticism of all Jewish people. This attitude has caused a fatal lack of criticism from world leaders of the Israeli state that has led us to where we are now and cost countless lives.
The logic is so twisted here - criticising the IDF is the same as wanting another Holocaust?!
My point was every army in the world has some decent people in it, that doesn't mean others shouldn't intervene, by force if necessary, to stop them killing innocent people indefinitely. Which is why many believe calling for their death - figuratively or literally - is justified.
Nope, haven't said you were pro-IDF anywhere here.
Was it supposed to be non violent? Going to be honest here I think the approach of non violence has been proven not to work when it comes to Israel. It wouldn't have been my personal choice of words but all humans arrive at violence eventually if nothing else works.
IDF soldiers advertising their deeds happily on tiktok and laughing about dead people's underwear adds a whole new nuance I suppose too
You said it was hard to separate wishing death to an evil regime and wishing death to individuals. You could make the same comparison when going to war with any evil regime eg the most obvious being the Nazis. We didn't sit pontificating about individuals Vs regime, we just wanted to stop it.
You could have applied same logic to soldiers fighting for the Nazis surely?
Yes the level of bias in Scotland is laughably bad. Genuinely at least one story a week (sometimes many more) on ferries whilst the world is in chaos 😂
Strong contribution there, well done
Since his Indepth piece on BBC I've hardly heard him on radio or read anything from him on the BBC news site?
You can't just kill everyone you don't like
1 in 4 people in one constituency (look up Larkhall's political /religious background) with a 44% turnout.
'hate flotilla' ugh they're so tabloid
I'm feeling this - not sure how I'd cope being at home all day every day but when I compare my day in school teaching, with the commute and the marking etc at night, to my husbands finance job done at home in very flexible hours i do sometimes think I made the wrong choice!
That slogan has always made me cringe. Not even sure why. Just seems like it was written in the most basic way for the most basic idiots ie us.
I listen to radio 4 in the morning and he has been getting more and more honest in his reports it's very noticeable. I worry he will soon announce 'retirement' or a move to another job soon....