Allegedly
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Often, even those who claim to understand other systems of oppression consider women’s complaint of gender based oppression invalid because women’s lived experiences must be biased or unimportant etc. Meanwhile feminist progress is often considered valid only if it helps men too. Exhausting
Roy Cooper literally ran for Gov on overturning the Bathroom Bill and then did that, and repeatedly vetoed anti-trans legislation even when it might have made him less popular in the state. You should look him up.
"What if we taught men to get laid leftistly" what if men cared about the loss of our bodily autonomy, the abuse we face as a result of coerced economic dependence and the actual pandemic of femicidal violence we have to contend with, more than they cared about sexual access to our bodies
Lot of liberals and leftists don’t see young women as a viable electoral group with relevant political concerns
Human rights, or cishet men’s prospects of sexual access to women? 🤔 Who can say which society should be in outrage over!
If you look closely you’ll notice that the Venn diagram of straight men who think left spaces should help them get laid and straight men who think leftists talk too much about sexual assault and patriarchy is nearly a perfect circle.
I have essentially been told that abortion shouldn’t be considered an issue of primary importance because it doesn’t effect people’s material conditions and that was just a *chef’s kiss* example of men forgetting that women are the proletariat too
Not to mention that they’ve been taught they have an innate *right* to have that wife/girlfriend/status symbol but the relative economic and social empowerment of women has made it so that’s no longer guaranteed. The boys can’t handle ~less than 2 generations of women’s autonomy
This is not a “men getting laid” problem. It is a “men not thinking women are valid except as fuckholes” problem.
the left-liberal advice for men on dating is “treat women like humans our culture pretends that’s not only the best advice but that it’s anti-advice, demonizing our poor little boys bc it doesn’t offer schemes to control women men don’t want advice, they want to be bolstered in their misogyny
Women are seen to exist in a kind of perpetual emotional and moral debt, owing care, attention, sexual access, or empathy to men who are not seen to owe this back to women in equal quantities.
Women cannot even request the dignity of full personhood without it being an attack on men.
The sense that women have excessive moral obligations to men—to care for their feelings, to defer to their interests—but can legitimately make only minor claims in such care from others is central to how misogyny actually perpetrates itself as an ideology.
I’m reliably informed society does not allow them to express their pain.
Unfathomable why un-partnered and/or lonely women aren’t coalescing into movements of radical extremism founded on revoking men’s rights I just don’t get it
Ah but you have forgotten the obligation of gestating, birthing, and rearing children! Of course we had to ban abortion when women were beginning to make noise about abandoning that one too
That they overturned Roe and immediately the media started a nationwide moral panic over “male loneliness” has got to be one of the least subtle moments in the long history of antifeminist backlash.
Meanwhile the wounded sense of entitlement is also 1) the fault of feminists so feminism is evil and 2) also feminists’ problem to solve if they want people to think they’re not miserable man haters
Women are genuinely in an emergency, and the obsessive focus on men’s wounded sense of gendered entitlement—they’re not getting laid enough!—adds insult to these injuries, because it suggests that people like it that way.
I guess it would be so much easier though if we just accepted that the path to political success is by agreeing that men do in fact have a right to a guaranteed wife/girlfriend/sex slave and that being denied sexual access by women is a legitimate political grievance which The State must address 🙃
“We must find a leftist way to commodify women and enforce men’s entitlement to sexual access to their bodies.”
And that people think this is an ok and normal state of affairs.
Insanity that men apparently require guaranteed sexual access to women in order to be swayed from a politics of oppression against us.
"Rolling abortion back to the states" means the rights and power of women depend on which state they're in - something that doesn't apply to men. THAT was why the right was willing to fail forward for 50 years, and why they're aiming at birth control next.
The issue actually isn’t ActBlue. ActBlue doesn’t sell your contact information. Unfortunately, campaigns can do that, though. They trade and sell email addresses or phone numbers amongst each other. Unsubscribing from the different email lists or replying stop to texts helps.
If you go to the donation link you’ll see that the emails split contributions between the Porter and Cooper campaigns. The emails will have come from Porter’s team, and her email infrastructure, not Cooper’s.
You’re almost certainly seeing emails sent by the Porter campaign (intentionally) with Roy Cooper as the sender and confusing them with emails sent by the Cooper campaign. Candidates commonly send emails from other candidates splitting donations with each other. Check the ActBlue page.
The Boyfriend & I were talking about exactly this today and I’m so happy we got to this point because I basically didn’t speak to him for a year after he initially failed to take my concerns re misogyny in politics seriously back in like 2017 lol. Bridges being built!
I am too, and my fingers remain crossed since, like, I consider my own personal politics and the policies I support to be mostly in line with them! I want progressive, socialist policies to succeed in this country!
The treatment of Warren in ‘20 left me feeling really fundamentally hopeless.
Just bought it; thank you for sharing this and the recommendation. (Feminist philosophy is not my field of (undergrad) study but informs how I view all of history, which is, and I’m eager to start to fill the gaps in my background knowledge.)
I’m convinced there is no objectively positive, non-harmful “masculine” trait that could not be embodied by a woman or enby and disassociated entirely from masculinity 🙃 I’m also convinced that “boys need male role models to learn healthy masculinity!” implies that women are lesser & unworthy 🙃
Again, non sequitur. I am not commenting on what men may actually think or feel; their actual thoughts or feelings do not change the fact that women’s autonomy is inherently more important than their guaranteed sexual/romantic access to women. I am not discussing what men feel threatened by.
And my point is that men’s concern about sexual/romantic access to women is not something that *should threaten* women’s ability to participate in the public sphere & that it *should not be a factor* in men hating women. Which is why your reply was a non sequitur without bearing on my comment.
Telling a victims of violence or oppression that the violence or oppression is “their fault” is a tactic common to both abusers in the physically violent sense and oppressive movements (such as anti-feminist, misogynistic movements). It is a DARVO behavior. See @nbedera.bsky.social for more info.
The pressure boys & men may be under to “succeed” romantically with girls has no bearing on what I wrote above; any movement that advocates liberation from misogyny & patriarchy should start from the premise that women must be respected regardless of our sexual/romantic availability to men.
If you don’t want to be seen as defending men who make rape threats to women then consider rereading this thread and trying to figure out why you did just that.
Don’t come into a thread defending people who make rape threats.
The post you’ve quoted is referring to “said descendants” - ie the ones who are tempted to “stop asking nicely” (and presumably use force to achieve their end goal). She’s saying “castrate the descendants of rape who think that their provenance excuses them raping others.” Reading comprehension.
Women’s right to autonomy, economic & social freedom, and participation in the public sphere is actually more valid & worthy of protection than men’s desire for sexual/romantic access to women! Men should not need guaranteed sexual/romantic access to women in order to not hate us!
Women’s right to autonomy, economic & social freedom, and participation in the public sphere is actually more valid & worthy of protection than men’s desire for sexual/romantic access to women! Men should not need guaranteed sexual/romantic access to women in order to not hate us!
The rest of us don’t even have the option of creating mass movements of hatred (especially directed towards the white/male oppressor class). For example, women who choose to decenter men because of rampant misogyny are frequently equated to incels, when incels are violent & hateful!
The argument that “young white men turn to hate because they don’t get enough empathy” or “because women advocating for feminist liberation is alienating” or “because no girls were nice to him in high school” sounds a lot like “you made me hit you.”
I really hope there comes a time when men are forced to reckon with the harm their entitlement causes to half of humanity. I don’t know what would get them to do it, but I hope it happens. And I hope that the rest of us continue to speak out & acknowledge that these men are *everywhere*.
I have simply pointed out that you turned up in a conversation about male violence to deflect attention away from the harm men do to women. That is an unhelpful, but all too common, tactic that men who want to uphold misogyny use to silence women.
You must have missed the “allegedly.” It’s really interesting if you believe advocating for women’s liberation from men’s sexual violence is “man hating.” I haven’t vilified men. I haven’t even been rude to *you*.
You said “lots of men but women have done it too” which fails to reckon with men’s sexual violence as a systemic problem inherently tied with patriarchy & misogyny, while also derailing the conversation entirely to deflect from the harm men do to women.
It is also dismissive “whataboutism” and you’ve only succeeded in proving that a man will always show up to derail conversations about the harm done by men to women because those conversations are a threat to your worldview.
Saying “women do it too!” conveniently ignores that men are the perpetrators of sexual violence in the vast, vast majority of cases (including violence towards other men) thus completely minimizing the fact that misogyny & patriarchy are intertwined with sexual violence.
And my god it’s *boys* — they start them early and *boys* join in on the oppression & violence too. Someone took objection to my saying boys can be oppressors because they’re children. But what is a “YOUR body MY choice” comment by a 15 y/o other than an attempt to oppress his peers?
Violence by men towards women is a key tactic of their oppression. We have been socialized to accept and expect it and it is all in aid of both preventing us from engaging in public life and resisting the abuse in private.
It’s absurd to fail to recognize that sexual assault is an extremely gendered phenomenon of which men are by far and away the perpetrators. This is not a “men and women are equally bad” situation. This is pervasive violence done by men towards women (and also other men).
They’re offended at other people’s notice of the world burning because it doesn’t compute with their experience of it
God I’m so tired
There is also explicit support for policies that would limit women’s abilities and rights to participate in the public sphere, which should not be overlooked.
Always a great sign of your own unseriousness and evil to point out the ways that women are hurt because they are women; never all that objectionable that the misogynist violence or indignity actually happens in the first place.
Pointing to the fact of misogyny & its societal influence is either alienating (you’re turning boys into Nazis!) or a “distraction” from the “real problems” (no one cares about abortion that much; this is a reflection of CLASS OPPRESSION) — but either way it is WRONG.
Republicans are giving boys & men permission — are ENCOURAGING THEM — to put women back in our place. And people who fail to see that for what it is, or who want us to ignore the misogyny because other factors obviously mattered more, are helping them.
Consider how many boys’ & young men’s immediate reaction to the election was to start harassing girls & women with the phrase “YOUR body, MY choice.” That’s not economic anxiety. That is violence & oppression. That is what women get for ~2 generations of relative economic & social liberty.
Misogyny & patriarchy are so deeply embedded that people *can’t* even see that this is what’s happening. The anti-women backlash isn’t really about that, it’s economic anxiety. And since women moved right too, how could that possibly explain anything?? (Internalized misogyny.)
The misogyny is a feature, not a bug; a selling point, not a symptom. The Trump/Musk/Project 2025 agenda is one that would explicitly restrict women’s participation in the public sphere, & the backlash to the minuscule steps women have made towards equality is such that that goal is POPULAR.
Meanwhile they refuse to see or believe the fact that they are privileged by our oppression! Every man benefits from patriarchy but you wouldn’t know that from the way our supposed “allies” talk!
I’m so tired of it not being enough that patriarchy harms women. That we have to tell them “we’re trying to make your lives better too!” Women’s oppression & subjugation should be reason enough.
I believe that women are systematically oppressed as women by men.
Men who cannot reckon feminism with teeth — feminism that advocates for women’s liberation without regard for men’s feelings about that liberation, feminism that does not center men as patriarchy’s victims, feminism that is not gentle to them — are not our allies.
Love to get accused of misandry (and transphobia!) for saying that feminism should not center men as victims of patriarchy there’s no hope for women there’s no hope for women
This is clearly a reading comprehension thing because I haven’t claimed anywhere that men aren’t harmed by patriarchy.
Claiming “misandry” and equating statements about “men” with “trans women” (a group of which trans women are not a part) is not going to be tolerated in my mentions.
Oh several have appeared
Did I SAY that men aren’t harmed by patriarchy or did I say that they insist on being CENTERED AS VICTIMS under patriarchy? Are your feelings too fragile to watch women advocate for our own liberation without men being centered as victims?
Women spend our entire lives living under oppression and violence. And on the off chance that a violent, rapist man is punished, we’re told to feel *sorry* because some conniving bitch ruined his life.
Wait til we start telling the boys that there is no positive, non-toxic “masculinity” that can’t also be embodied in women & NBs.
“Most men don’t benefit from patriarchy and are actually oppressed by it too!” They claim with a straight face
Men & boys oppress women & girls day in and out in every facet of life and yet we’re expected to ensure that our feminist outreach includes them and that they are centered as victims under patriarchy. Men’s feelings are apparently too fragile to watch women advocate for their own liberation.
Women’s economic & social freedom is less important than men’s feelings about women’s economic & social freedom, apparently. Men need to get used to the idea that they aren’t guaranteed a wife/girlfriend/sex slave.
Let’s be honest: they think even one woman in Congress or a state house is too many, let alone there existing a woman-owned Australian skincare company where the Gen Z owner can film dancing TikToks No women in the public sphere!
Women who refuse to center men really do deserve to be burned at the stake, tbqh.
One of society’s biggest lies in furtherance of enabling men’s bad behavior is the idea that men aren’t “allowed” to express their emotions. Women have to deal with the consequences of men’s emotions all the time.
Boys are socialized to fail to respect women in positions of authority over them long before they are exposed to the manosphere.
A scholar in an NYT piece from earlier this year bemoaned that boys have not made *equivalent scholastic gains* to girls (they have made gains), which implies that the issue is not that boys are falling behind, but that they are no longer *always outpacing* girls.
The constant silencing of women & trans people, coupled with the amplification of concerns for men, serves only to recenter men as the “true victims” of culture & reaffirm their relative importance compared to everyone else. It’s insidious & it’s all part of the same plan.
If we ever get out of this, the fact that men and boys were cast by the media as victims in a time when women’s advances and rights were being deliberately erased will strike some historians as one of the more perverse little hypocrisies of our era.
Cishet men really need to get used to the idea that the era when simply *being a man* guaranteed them sexual/romantic access to a wife or girlfriend is OVER. Women’s economic & social freedom to opt out of traditional heterosexual relationships should be sacrosanct.
Misogynistic men (like family annihilators) are usually very secure in their roles as overlords because of their entitlement and belief in their superiority over women. The control is the point.
Everything he’s written ignores the fact of all men being enabled through patriarchy to be oppressors of women, and that that oppression is not a manifestation of insecurity (blaming it on insecurity is just giving a pass to men).
Imagine someone saying “Black people need to stop complaining about racism so much, because it only vilifies and upsets white people.” (I stole this sentiment from someone else.) That’s what men are saying when they tell us that our objection to their oppression is the problem.
And when a man and woman divorce, the woman is statistically much worse off financially
The concern is that if men center themselves as the “true victims” of patriarchy, there may indeed be change, but change that is *only* beneficial to men.
Sparing men disadvantages IS A BENEFIT to men
- If a man is incompetent at his job, it is unlikely that people say “men really shouldn’t do this job, they’re not capable of it” - There is not currently an online movement to revoke men’s right to vote in the U.S.
- If a man chooses to prioritize work over his children, he is unlikely to be vilified for it - If a man wants a vasectomy, it is likely to be approved without much fuss - If a man is at a bar, he is unlikely to worry about his drink being spiked while he’s in the bathroom
- If a man marries a woman, no one will expect him to change his surname to hers - If a man has children, he is unlikely to be expected to be their primary caregiver - If a man does not have children, he is unlikely to be vilified for it
Here are some ways all men benefit from patriarchy: - Medicines have historically been tested & optimized for male bodies rather than female bodies - If men stay out of prison, they are fairly unlikely to ever experience being raped - If a man rapes a woman, he is unlikely to be punished
Perhaps a better way to engage in preventing violence against women is to center women as the victims, rather than explain away men’s harm of them by suggesting that they are the true victims of patriarchy. Centering women as victims of patriarchy requires admitting that ALL MEN are agents of it.
“Men can’t possibly be expected NOT to oppress women when we have so much pressure on us and are victimized by patriarchal standards!”
Patriarchy benefits ALL men and allows ALL men to be oppressors.
Men refuse to confront the truth that *all men* benefit from patriarchy and *all women* are oppressed by patriarchy and men’s participation in it. They don’t want to admit that those facts make them agents of patriarchy and complicit in oppression of the other half of humanity.
Alright, I’m done with the rudeness in my mentions. Thanks for playing.
If men need to be able to be a little bit misogynistic or else they'll vote for a rapist fascist, maybe it's not women who need to be more accommodating. Maybe men simply aren't mature and rational enough to vote.
I fear that those people intend to co-opt the “left” and force the rest of us to either get on board with misogyny or realign ourselves politically.