If I wasn't so sure he was going to get indicted for whatever's on his hard drive in a few years, I'd be pretty mad right now.

There's only one language that humbles a Nazi and if you're not willing to speak it, you shouldn't put yourself in a room with them.

It's their love language

Bro cant even raise his hand high enough before getting decked

I can't get enough of it.

the best part is how right when it’s over it starts again

To debate someone is to presuppose that each side has valid points to make. Fascism has no valid points.

hard disagree. in 2014? maybe. but at this point these ideas are essentially mainstream and I'm not sure how else we combat them at this point except for engaging with them directly?

Exactly

like one shitty dude getting $15k does not in any way negate literally millions of people FINALLY being exposed to effective counters of what *highly* insular and extremely popular podcasters have been spewing for a decade..... that's pretty important work isn't it?

these audiences are never going to realize how absurd the fascistic ideals they're playing to are until someone like medhi brings them face to face with it maybe the format isnt ideal but I don't understand how we don't all see yet that "just ignore them and they'll go away" just makes things worse

there's other options than platforming them to fight these ideas. I feel like we've already seen that "surely people will take away that this viewpoint is absurd" isn't a given. you can just promote good ideas instead of putting good and bad on stage and expecting people to favor the good

there are no givens in a debate. will some people come away thinking "wow, that self-avowed fascist seemed like a very smart and reasonable guy"? maybe. but you think more people will have that takeaway than "that guy literally said he's a fascist, so his ideas are probably fascistic"

like right wing podcasters have been fighting tooth and nail for a decade to convince people that everyone calling them fascists are hysterical and that they're actually just totally reasonable pragmatists. I'm really surprised people aren't seeing the value in someone openly admitting it in public.

and sure, you *can* "just promote good ideas" ....but there's been great people doing that for a LONG time and it's simply not had the reach that right wing podcasts or these types of debates do. again, the left has been doing "just leave them alone and they'll go away" and it clearly doesn't work.

yes, I do because being honest most of America couldn't define fascism to you and doesn't think the country is heading that way. especially in the groups that this outreach is supposed to impact. the right wing has moved on from fighting these terms and now you have a Fox New host

joking they should reclaim the word "Nazi". the good people promoting good ideas haven't been as good at playing the game as the right wing grifters since the 2010s which is the bigger issue. it always stands out to me that the right wing podcasts largely don't care about appealing to the left

but always there has to be some effort from the left to debate and reach out to this audience and what good has it measurably done. I didn't say leave them alone and they'll go away I said there's better options that letting the right wing determine the battlefield

Directionality is never, ever obvious, but generations if not a couple centuries of people raised on "We hold these truths to be self-evident" takes a while to undo.

Lol

How about by ruining their lives? By killing them? Can we stop pretending these people have normal, debatable viewpoints? When you platform this bullshit you are presenting it as "the other side" as though it's totally reasonable. How has that worked out for us so far in this country?

I'm also not sure what you mean by "how has that worked out for us so far" because "don't engage with them, leave them alone and they'll go away" has far and away been the predominant disposition towards these ideals for a decade.........sooooo yeah, how HAS that worked out for us so far?

Really?? Is that how you see it? Because from here it seems to me like US media has done a whole lot more sharing of these ideas than "don't engage".

...........yes that's a very measured and realistic alternative. thanks! (palantir if you're listening this is sarcasm)

I'm tired of this "measured take" garbage. They have taken over the country, people espousing these beliefs are taking away MY PEOPLE and sending them to fucking concentration camps and you want us to be measured? To what? Fucking invite them onto a podcast to debate? No. Fuck this.

ok, well what about realistic? and yeah, my people too. you don't think I'm scared out of my fucking mind on a daily basis? you think you're the only one? it's kinda gross that you think that simply because I disagree with you on praxis that I can't appreciate the gravity of the situation.

Oh you think its gross I'm so sorry. I think its gross that while these people orchestrate ethnic cleansing, the best we can do is say "no lets let them talk and debate them".

I never said that's "the best we can do." I said I think it does more harm than good to just leave these people alone, because that's what the left has been doing for a decade, and now we're here.

And I mean, what has happened after they came on that video and were completely picked apart? One guy supposedly is fired. Now he'll get 20k and is being given the red carpet to grift on other nazi podcasts, while Jubilee makes bank off this. They certainly dgaf. This is not working.

how do you know it's not working? it doesn't have the same immediate effect as "that guy just made a bunch of money," but I'm not sure what kind of immediate result you expect to see from something of which the intent is to simply reframe the conversation and address ideas....?

BECAUSE A FUCKING EUGENICIST NAZI IS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

that..... does not address my question?

You asked me "how do you know its not working"? Because this whole "give both sides a platform to present the illusion that they're equally reasonable" has been all over US media for longer than either of us have been alive. And yet, there he is. I'm done. Nazis should die. Argue with yourself.

in this form? in this media environment? no, it really hasn't. we're not talking about the msm sanewashing that has been happening for that long, were talking about extremely popular internet personas being faced directly with effective rebuttals head on (or not).

because in THAT environment the predominant position on the left *absolutely* has been "stand real still and don't make any noise and they'll just go away." obviously, they haven't.

I feel like this is also pretty self-evident when you look at how the right wing internet media approaches the concept of debate with ACTUAL effective debaters like sam seder... it was basically a running meme for years that they were all terrified of him, because they were.

Engage them with a kick in the teeth.

I mean, ok. but unfortunately tim pool has like a $5M compound and he's probably going to keep spewing bullshit regardless of how many people are willing to do that. sooo that's kind of where we're at 🤷

this is why i don't trust taylor lorenz, she's had libs of tiktok within lethal range more than once and done nothing for humanity with those opportunities

Amen and fuckin hell, they gave twenty of them a platform and a stage. Now we know who they are and what they think. And these guys treat it like they're interviewing for a job with the GOP.

The good news is that the Trump admin now has one more Iranian, one more Hispanic male with tattoos, and one more DACA that outed themselves for deportation to CECOT.

Please just shut the fuck up

I respectfully decline

you're one of the fascists

I don't think you know what that word means...

he says, cheering on the actions of the fascists

Hooray? Huzzah? Yay? Clap? None of which appear in any comment I've made. You can make up whatever you want in your imagination station that you call home, but it is detached from the reality you seem to have wandered into.

"it's good news when fascism happens to people i don't like" - you bsky.app/profile/ossi...

Oh, I see. You just don't understand the ironic humor of watching 3 fascists from Iran, Argentina, and Mexico out themselves to millions of people on the Internet while the current government black bags anyone even LOOKING like they do and sending them to CECOT. You're just insufferable to be around

scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds

Oh, so now you are okay with physically assaulting people without due process?! The two faces of anarcho social media bunny.

who are you excited about being deported next, huh pal?

You seem to be hung up on this made up excitement. Can you show me on the map where you find this excitement you are referencing?

You are advocating for people to be put in what is a concentration camp. You are the other side of the same coin as the current fascists in power.

I'm not advocating for anything of the like. You have made inferences that do not match reality. I made an comical observation regarding the fascists in the video being the exact same nationalities and physical characteristics used to justify sending people to CECOT.

God, but you're such a shitheel. You are as basic a white bro as every dude in that video, but at least they weren't hiding their shittiness behind "I'm just joking bro". Honestly dude, pick better battles.

Didn't you know that denying due process was super hilarious? It must be nice to be a white dude who doesn't have to worry about ICE questioning the legitimacy of their citizenship.

I'm not fighting any battles. I don't need to try and convince random people on the Internet who read one comment out of context who I am and what I stand for. I'd rather let you guys ruin your day thinking about it for hours.

Honestly if many people told me I was talking and acting like a fascist, given that I'm not, I'd be a little horrified. I mean it's never happened to me. I'd not be stomping my feet to say "nuh uh it doesn't matter what it looks like it matters how I feel, u mad bro". Cause that's how _they_ act.

Fascism even relies on your kind doing this. Understand that fascists don't GET satire. They don't even understand the concept. When you mockingly repeat their shit, they don't see it as mocking. They just see it and think "I can too". So, if you actually give a shit? Stop doing that.

I'm not trying to attack you or argue or "get under your skin". I'm talking to you like a man: understand that your sense of humor as you've displayed here is vile, lazy, and not funny. We only EVER see lazy, vile, white people make immigrants suffering into their punchlines. Now you're aware.

Nah.

Why? Like he's getting donations yeah but why does that matter?

Yeah I don't get it. $15,000 is nothing, he lost his job and everyone knows he's a fascist now. He can only work for other fascists, and they are probably shitty employers. Maybe underpay him because they know his options are limited.