Krasner: So, if what you have is a group of ICE agents, or even the military, coming into Philadelphia and committing crimes—assaults that are illegal, kidnapping, unlawful restraint, obstruction of the administration of justice—they can be prosecuted.
Full interview and more from MeidasTouch here: youtu.be/Lz9Cguax7oY
Confederate Civil War
Do it!
That's right, djt, bad things happen in Philly;) Thanks Larry Krasner! Did you see this @phillyactivistnews.bsky.social?
our military does not "walk the streets trying to reduce crime" in other countries. ever. what a load of crap.
Does nobody know what they actually are supposed to do abroad? What their actual job is?
seriously. the denial of imperialism runs deep here.
This is what comes from watering down language and changing implication/definition. In the 1960’s? Congress let POTUS call Vietnam a, ‘Police Action’. Now? We’ve got NatGuard OCCUPYING Wash DC. The through-line might wander? But the DIRECTION, in hindsight, is CLEAR.
Police Action was Korea, to allow the US to lend power to UN forces fighting the Chinese and North Koreans…
It was also Nam.
Yup
But was a war
Nope. Congress never declared war in Korea. The last war the United States was involved in that was declared by Congress was World War II .
The definition of a war transcends American administrative chicanery.
Except the legality has meaning in law. Say what you want but if you want to disentangle US administrative goofery, it is good to understand the rules of the game.
True Constitution says only Congress can declare war. But Congress has diluted all meaning from a declaration of war. You call it a rule but it's a meaningless rule. It has no effect. A law nobody cares about is, de facto, no law. The courts have ruled our undeclared wars are legal. That's that.
It's not unlike the right to abortion. It was once the law of the land. A legal fact. Then it wasn't. We can say the courts are wrong, but their rulings can't be wished away. I wish the courts would require a declaration of war before we can make war. But it's a mere wish
That's a distinction without a difference. "Declaring war" has a lot of baggage around it, so Congress has found multiple ways of not calling various conflicts wars, at least not officially. It is known as The Korean War, and we were involved, regardless of what Congress called it.
State Of Exception sucks ass
He •DOES• realize, ‘State of Conflict’? STILL EXISTS betw N.Korea & U.S., no? Cease Fire was NEVER established. Hence: N.Korean DMZ, which has been IN-Place since 1950? ToTHIS VERY DAY. We’re STILL ‘At War’ with N. Korea. No matter HOW MANY ‘Love Letters’ Dumald says he ‘Sent’ 2 Kim Jung Un.
There was an armistice…yes. And the US is still at war with the Seminole too…
There was a murder in the DMZ in 1976.
America seems unable to stop itself from renaming the terrible things it does and thinking the whole world hasn't noticed. Extraordinary rendition, enhanced interrogation techniques etc.
Not renaming…using the letter to get around the spirit of the law
Nobody died, they just "are fallen."
So do you understand what I was correcting? As an aside you understand we DO use euphemisms like that for people who’s bodies we can’t locate? Like missing submarines from world war two are still “on patrol” and they radio to them?
You're correcting nothing. Incorrect to say "that's not a war because Congress hasn't declared a war". You're wrong to even bring it up If I say the sky is blue and you say "well actually Congress hasn't declared the sky is blue", you are a clown and a waste of time. We don't need you. We have eyes
Oh so you DON’T get it. They said the whole problem was Vietnam, but exceeding the warmaking powers of congress started in Korea….so….
And the REALITY IS: Any Sub Crew that HASEN’T been heard from for +/- 70YEARS? Is. DEAD. Any OTHER explanation is EUPHEMISM.* *JUST AS, Steve, ‘Captain America’, Rodger’s being re-animated from Arctic Ice? Is FICTION.
Is there anything more clownish than to look upon pitched battle, men slaughtering one another en mass, laying down their lives on the chance it might help a comrade live, and you say, "That's no war. The 3M who served in Vietnam? They don't know war. Nobody who fought in Korea is a war veteran"? 🤡
That's the exact point. Language has been watered down and propagandized to the point of meaninglessness.
Not for me. I know a war when I see it. I know the Korean War is over. It's true people call things what they are not. Those are lies. People who lie are called liars. Language seems quite up to the task of describing the situation. Dunno why some are so befuddled by simple lies.
The Korean conflict ISN’T over….that’s why the largest Minefield in the world separates the North from the South on the Korean Peninsula…
You think having a minefield is the same as having a war? You see battles, men dying, and some government tells you, "not a war". Guns go silent for 7 decades and they say, oh yeah, that's war. You believe whatever they tell you, I guess. I believe my own eyes. Sorry
On the ground it was a war.
Yeah man, and Mac wanted the Bomb to support the invasion at Inchon…
Just saying. Words mean things. If the cat has kittens in the oven that doesn't make them muffins It was a war, land, sea and air. Calling it anything else is being phony about one of the most profound and terrible acts of humanity. What is more unserious than calling a war something else?
EXACTLY! There’s no, ‘Just Saying’ ABOUT it! •Vietnam was … A WAR! •Korean War was… A WAR! •‘Dessert Storm’ was… A WAR! •Ukraine IS… … A WAR! Call it what it IS & STOP fuqin’ with THE WORDS!
Folks: as a military historian, with military historian friends, I want you to understand what I said. I said “the US congress has not declared war on anyone since world war two” which is true. Declaring war and the de facto state on the ground are two separate and distinct things.
This is war.... This action is ongoing civil war
Well evidently the military is now picking up garbage in DC now. I'm sure the NG is thrilled. What an insult to them.
In DC they have Nat Guard on "beautification" duty. A fine use for our fighting men. Another WASTE of taxpayer $$ for trumps sake of a show for his magats. www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/n...
That isn't really true. In France they have the Gendarmes and in Italy they have the Carabinieri who are federalized police with a military hierarchy. Europe had been occupied by Nazi's so when the Nazi's were overtaken after WWII, gendarme was how they re-stabilized law and order.
those aren't US military. The US military don't go to other countries and walk the streets preventing crime. Actually, police of any form don't prevent crime. They step in afterward.
1 They step in afterword if their boss tells them to. Otherwise, they walk on. The last thing on their minds is protecting or serving the people who pay their salaries. I had a guy come into my yard, yelling "hullo!" over and over, banging on the front door. I didn't feel threatened. Husband and
2 son were freaked out later bc I didn't call the cops. Sigh. I really thought I had taught them both better than that. I don't sic the cops on people, especially ones who may be disoriented and having a weird moment. Too much room for an "I was afeared for my life" murder.
3 We still have a Neighborhood Watch here. What a farce. Cops won't run good fingerprints in connection with hefty thefts. See something, say something? To whom? The one time I called for help, two cops showed up -- one to interview me as though as I was a suspect, the other to surveil the joint.
No. Firearms officers are UNDER the military-subordinate to it. Then, when they gave guns to cops they had troops on the streets.
...at no point during the Iraq or Afghanistan wars did any American look at that shit, sigh whistfully and say to themselves, "if only America were more like Baghdad. Or Kabul. Those places seem nice and safe. Unlike America."
They SHOULD be prosecuted if they are walking the streets committing crimes. Forcing random people into unmarked vans without producing warrants, while hiding behind masked faces, sure does sound like kidnapping to me. And then not allowing them due process? It’s total bull.
EVERYONE MUST Watch This - Larry Krasner DA Philadelphia tells it like it is when it comes to tRump&what he is currently doing with National Guard. Any news media worth its salt should be having Larry on their show. He is standing up for America just like Pritzker, Newsom & Moore. @maddow.msnbc.com
And we need more more more!!!! C’mon everybody!
A MORONIC 'sneaker salesman' is being ALLOWED to ignore the Constitution AT WILL!!!
Unbelievable, so proud to be a native Philadelphian
📌
Why don’t high crime red cities “invite” him to send troops to their city to help with crime? That would be a perfect way to show he’s not targeting only blue cities. Then we can all watch as the crime in their city disappears with trump’s help. Set an example red cities!!!
Because crime is not the issue.
Exactly!!! But no one calls them out! 🤬
Stellar idea!!
Have never heard Krasner speak until today. Just Wow!
Dr. Larry Krasner👏👏👏👏👏👏
Whoops DA Larry Krasner
DA of Philadelphia. Hard working principled moral attorney who has been working very hard to make the justice system in Philly, & PA a level playing field regardless of wealth or race.
👍🥰
Focus on #Vance’sVP nobody is overthrowing #Trump before the old #Nazi stops dead clue in: the Pentagon’s Walter Reed gives zero fucks, at this point
Soo sad how much hate and greed this man has in his soul 🤦
The Trumper Party ate the Republicans and they didn’t even notice….
Lock Them Up!
Now we’re talking! I was hoping a prosecutor in California would step up to charge some of the assaults that we witnessed.
Instead you have a Governor who's shitposting AI slop, and getting praised for it. 🙄
ARREST ICE !
We will have all their names at some point in the future, and there can be no slap on the wrist. They will deserve our greatest anger and shame. All of them must be held accountable. No Merrick Garland bullshit this time.
Arresting the Military or Federal Agents? This can only end bloody. Good luck with that.
Bad things happen in Philadelphia
@MSNBC You’re on fire! Keep talking. I’m picking up, what you’re laying down. LFG 💪🏽💪🏾💪🏿💥🇺🇸
@dalarrykrasner.bsky.social Thank you for being on with Nicolle Wallace just now! 👏👏👏👏
Don't fuck with Philly
This: Rule Of Law. My father and his Greatest Generation volunteered to die if need be to protect it. They defeated fascism. We will, too. Solidarność
We have some consciousness-raising to do. Too many people are pro-cop by default and need to be patiently educated about their true purpose. One way I like to do this is, in a small group like a paper, neutrally ask, "Does anyone here know of a cop who's ever solved a crime, or prevented one?"
"No, Bob, Columbo doesn't count."
Ha! I'm watching Grantchester on PBS and the Vicar does better at solving crimes than the DI. Same with Father Brown. 😊
*like at a party
I did, too, until I read John Grisham's Framed. That opened my eyes!
Good on ya for reading! I'm grateful to him for writing it.
Someone who plans on following the law!
thanks - "what are now commonly known as the Peelian Principles were not written by him but were instead produced by Charles Reith in his 1948 book, A Short History of the British Police, as a nine-point summary of the 1829 "Instructions"." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...
About fucking time. Everyone deserves to know who is attempting to arrest them. Identifiable police officers protects them too.
I'll believe it when I see it.
You have to try and identify and arrest these masked armed men and women first, not easy!
Right. Im wondering what arresting one or a group of them would look like. In my mind, it could end badly. That said, I’d love to see it happen successfully!
It’s what Trump wants. A conflict. Then he escalates and declares martial law.
Yup
I want this to be a campaign promise from every Democrat running for office.
History honors soldiers who defend liberty, not those who enforce fear.
That's a damn good quote right there 🫡
Thank you, Larry Krasner for speaking the truth. Like Larry Krasner said, If they by accident hurt someone they can’t be charged with a crime, prosecuted and sent to jail,. Trump didn’t think this 💩 out (like always) he’s a stupid fuck.
Arrest them. 🚬😎
Our military needs to start refusing Trumps orders. Enough. Refuse to deploy troops against the American people and start protecting Americans against Trump and the ICE goons.
Yeah, sure. We all know that Bondi's DOJ won't prosecute them😡. But Krasner is one of the good guys. He damned sure will.💙
This should have started months ago, but glad to see someone standing up to these thugs.
What is a legal assault?
Police. Military. Can assault you if you assault them, trying to stop them arresting you, kill you if you threaten to kill people/have killed and is dangerous. There are US laws and then there are Trump/Admin/ICE ..:
This is the way; threaten them ... isn't Trump? Fallout; "I don't understand why my kids won't speak to me anymore.
Prosecute the fuck out of these goons.
ICE “agents” = Paramilitary orcs.
Let’s gooooooooo. Bring on those arrests! Put a stop to these illegal, outrageous behaviors. #NoOneIsAboveTheLaw #MakeDueProcessGreatAgain
Just. Do. It. Don’t just talk about it.
YES, please. Hold these goons accountable for kidnapping and assaulting working people who are doing nothing wrong. STOP them at once. Be the wayshower for other cities and citizens.
Love my progressive DA
Amen!
He forgot 'and will'. They can, and will, be prosecuted.
you tell 'em, Philly!
So exactly who will be "arresting" these criminals?
So does that mean your state troopers will arrest them?
👏 I’ve been waiting for this push back.
Not surprising coming from a Philadelphia DA. Philadelphians are famous for their love of FAFO.
#BroderickCrawford
100% THIS. NOW. EVERYWHERE. ALL OF US.
Finally, someone makes the case!
One more step towards civil war.
And who is going to arrest them, Larry? You? 😂😂😂😂
AND THEY SHOULD BE! The issue here is with faces covered and no badge numbers how do we figure out who they are so we can charge them? DHS should be brought up on charges if they don't give out the information. They aren't insisting these people have badge numbers showing as well as their faces.
This is the reason why. If you can't identify them then they can't be charged.
Arrest them and ID them. Problem solved.
Yes! Please! They belong in cuffs for destroying restaurants, kidnapping people, assault!
They DOX protesters by finding out who the employer is and if they are MAGA friendly. People have lost jobs
Having trouble following the thought here. MAGA DOX people but so do we, the ones who need DOXXED, ICE and when they are uncovered you mean that if the member of ICE is MAGA friendly, their employers have fired them? Yes, if that's what you mean I understand.
DHS went to his employers who are MAGA. He lost his job. He has been smeared real ugly online so future employers will not want to hire. He is letting protesters use his home as a safe house to shower and rest. He is peaceful no violence no arrest record. Detained twice once at gunpoint.
Wow. That's scary. But there will be more who will end up in this position because Trump wants to silence people who disagree with him. He doesn't deserve this treatment. Does he have grounds to sue? Unlawful termination/ or being threated unlawfully, and threatened?
No he does not. He is identified as “ the leader of Antifa” which is a joke. He is currently working as my housekeeper and because he was a Marine he gets it clean. I will be eating beans to support this young bright dedicated young man who presents no threat to anyone.ICE hates him He is precious
That's awful, I'm sorry, good for you, supporting him.
Time to 2A ppl.
Who did the orders come from? Since due process
🤡 is sending in crime to blue cities and states
Can they, though? The government is acting with impunity. Makes me feel like the person who said this hasn’t been paying attention. Nobody is paying for these crimes. Hell, with faces covered and no id, we wouldn’t even know who to prosecute.
Yes!!!
these memes are 🔥
Never before has a president been more willing to take situations to court and then how long does prosecution take? Meanwhile ICE and similar apparatus continue their activity. There needs to be a ruling! Good luck with this supreme court though!
I hope some of your collegaues start acting the way you're talking
They MUST be prosecuted!
Ok so logic is still alive and someone has a spine!!! LFG 🇺🇸
Even if the practicalities of his plan are questionable, THAT'S how you talk about it!
Now they just need to follow through. Don’t make promises you aren’t prepared to keep.
Philly’s fighting back!!
Krasner gets it.
Yes! Please and thank you! Now, let’s make this happen!
Now follow that bravado with action, good on ya👍
So what I’m hearing is that, in addition to turning on video when you witness an abduction, call 911 and report it immediately. Right?
I would
Remember members of the guard and military you do NOT have to follow unlawful orders. Period.
.. I've been singing that song for a few months now.. SING ALONG WITH US
Eagles fans pelted Santa with snowballs. Pretty sure they’re not going to embrace masked goons.
Yes! More of this talk… and then action.
Fear works both ways. You only need to jail 3 or 4 of these ice thugs and they will cool their heels.
If it's what you say then I love it
That's the ticket.
FAFO, ICE
I'm pretty sure Gritty is packing a Glock.
Hopefully the police officers in Philadelphia will protect your citizens … unlike The Failures at the @portlandpolice.bsky.social who couldn’t hump the Proud Boys’ legs hard enough during Trump’s Portland Race War. They chose a soon-to-be convicted felon - over their city. We won’t forget.
They’ll have another opportunity to disappoint our city. I’m 90% sure they’ll take it. They’ll attack us, again. For a convicted criminal coddling a convicted child sex trafficker. We’re are gathering our throwing sandwiches, here. 💚 This isn’t our first rodeo.
Lori is a lap dog simp. Door didn't hit her on the way out of congress hard enough. Amazing how many boot licking fools there are just wanting another chance at a taste of tyrant boot leather.
🤣
Wow 😮, that’s bonkers
Yeah a lot of us live with PDs who are only too happy to join the goons. The principle doesn't matter, just getting paid to be thugs. But that's not ALL of them. We should shame the cops who ignore 10 - 15 calls about a violent disturbance by ICE thugs. We must activate them to make arrests!
States need to form their own militias immediately and turn away any unauthorized federal presence.
You mean full out war. The end of the 'United' of the States.
Hopefully more like a stalemate. It’s fight to a bloodless draw now or fight a bloody revolution later.
Less is done worse it will get. This administration is completely nuts.
An invasion of a state by out of state forces is literal definition a war.
Are systematically committing crimes against humanity. Do it.
Please! This is what we’re waiting for.
I like it, why waste time seeing where this will go? The longer we prolong this showdown the more numb we will be when it inevitably happens.
Time for some citizens’ arrests. Find a weakling and separate him from the herd. Turn the tables on the money-driven bullies assaulting the people.
This seems wrong!
Can I legally protect myself from their criminal actions or am I required to let them victimize me?
Why can't he Police, Highway Patrol, and your States National Guard stand against them? I cannot imagine any person in our Military, if they love their Country, standing for Trump the Dictator. They have children..is this the world they want for them?
Don’t fuck with Philly
exactly
Philly’s the type of city that riots when their sports team *wins*. You don’t fuck with that kind of crazy.
Yes, we BOO Santa.
Nooooo hitchbot
BE UNGOVERNABLE
😂 … 🤣 … I’m laughing at the the Robot post … but I still have faith that most of our soldiers and police don’t want to be “shanghaied” into perpetrating this kind of violence and terror against civilians … our own civilians … BUT ICE is definitely “cruising for a bruising” as they used to say …
I thought About this the other day and had to giggle about.
I remind people of the robot..... don't come here.
Poor Hitchbot...
destroying robots (real or digital) with unknowable capabilities and motives is praxis everybody always acts like philly was in the wrong, but nope. it’s the smartest thing to do.
He had a sign saying exactly what his motivation was. As for capabilities, he was a bucket with a solar panel, battery, and GPS so we could enjoy his journey with him. :(
the whole idea was creepy and invasive and anyone who picks up a giant piece of electrical equipment and sensors based on a SIGN is a damn fool you can write a sign that says anything
“but i liked it” isn’t a counter argument
I'm sorry your life has given you the experiences required to make you this paranoid and defensive.
You wear clippy, but fail to recognize he wanted to help. He would help in destroying robots who seek to surveil us.
How are you helping here, Clippy?
Amy is a bot sent by Elon
i’m sorry you’re a clueless rube who thinks people ought to embrace a random “robot” dropped into their communities uninvited one of us is dangerously wrong — and as history is showing us right now with “AI,” it’s 1,000% you.
Philly was way ahead of the times on this one. Indiscriminate rapid disassembly of robots is the future
You are right
That jawn got diced.
Found by New Yorker to make the city look bad.
Time to start collecting batteries and treating them like John Kruk.
Lol I You’re funny
Damn right. We are not having it..
Really 🥹
Do it, Larry.
Good!
youtu.be/IhyMvQ_N7Zc?...
🫂👏🙏🏼🫱🏻🫲🏽🆘️🚨 #itsaphillything #strongtribessavelives
Hw was on MSNBC today, and he was GREAT: www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE_0...
good stuff!! thanks da of philly!!
So far, no guts to end this insanity.
Krasner ✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼✊🏼
Love Larry!!
first time i’ve seen him. very impressed.
hero in the making
OUTF&CKINGSTANDING !!!! 👏🏽👏🏼👏🏻👏🏿👏🏾👍🏾💙💙💙💙💙💙✔️
Govs - call up the NG @governorwalz.mn.gov @govpritzker.illinois.gov @govevers.wisconsin.gov @governor.ny.gov @joshsteinnc.bsky.social @tinakotek.bsky.social @governor.pa.gov @governorferguson.bsky.social @govmurphy.bsky.social @govwesmoore.bsky.social @govandybeshear.bsky.social @govmlg.bsky.social
Do it prosecute them‼️
Saw this on Meidas! Love it!!! Don't mess with Philly!
Absolutely! Prosecute ALL OF THEM to the fullest extent! 😡
Paint it gold. Trump will want gold.
Best I can do is brass.
Don't mess with Philly! 🚫🔔💪🏻
Yes!
Awesome
Why does he keep saying “IF”? Go after them Send the actual police to go after them and put them on trial.
1/2 the police are in contracts with them.
Because he is a lawyer, and understands how defamation works. Being tied up in court is not worth any extra brownie points from the maybe couple of thousands who would see this video, who already all agree with him.
We need to get creative in fighting back. Here, we have gangs who will materialize almost as fast at ICE when there's a rendition in progress. They use hand signals and whistles to communicate. The thugs are intimidated. Then the tires are slashed, and the thugs are fearful. Indict every crime!
Again, he can do so without getting tied up in court. I’m from Philly, so I know how creative we can get in getting I. People’s way. That being said, Krasner is far more effective when he’s not tied up in a lawsuit.
Putting aside questions of what they can legally do to feds, the philly PD has a big MAGA contingent, and many of them hate Krasner. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they just stand aside when other armed (supposedly LE) start snatching people. That's if they don't join in.
He is cooked. It’s been happening in close proximity to him and he hasn’t done jackshit.
Because they can't be prosecuted by the state or city if they are acting on behalf of the federal government. Which he knows quite well.
They wouldnt be acting on behalf of the federal government if they are committing crimes. They would be civilians committing crimes.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. ICE employees can in the course of their official duties, detain, arrest, physically attack and even kill people. In doing so they are still acting on behalf of the Federal government unless the Federal government says otherwise.
Just say oopsie and keep doing it
Except that we don't know who they are or who they are working for. Take them in and let them sort it out in a police station.
Do it anyway. Change the precedent & change the rules. A maga Supreme Court will overrule it, but it would stop each ICE\NG activity by trying, & the highly publicized case could point out how the federal National Guard is being forced to violate the constitution. Need to stop saying “IF” Say DO.
Any Supreme Court would overrule it. This will be an 8-1 or 9-0 decision. The relevant precedent has stood since the 19th century.
Would that precedent hold (or apply) if the case could show that the National Guard is being used in a frivolous political & unconstitutional manor?
Yes. The Supremacy Clause is designed so states can't impede the Federal government.
or invade a state government
So MAKE trump do it. Waste their time and money and energy on taking the case through the courts. That is literally how he does everything to protect himself and harms others. Give him a taste of his own medicine.
That's not how this proceeds.
Why not. A DA can make it proceed this way. Literally everything that trump does is “not how this proceeds” but he does it anyway. Fight for the sake of fighting and forcing trump to react. Even if it fails it helps.
Not against the Federal government. The DA brings charges, the Feds remove to Federal Court, move to dismiss and the case is over.
Then MAKE the feds try to move it to federal court! That is the point. Make trump go through every fucking step, over & over again. Slow him down, waste time, waste their funds, put the agents through a gigantic hassle. And along the way maybe they lose a ruling here or there, dragging it out more.
Wrong. A crime is a crime. If they act illegally, they can be prosecuted. The Feds hold no sway over state charges.
The law is otherwise and has been since the 19th century. Federal officers can remove any such cases to Federal Court under 28 USC 1442 and the federal court will promptly squash the prosecution under Supreme Court precedent that is over a century old.
So why not make them do that over and over again? The publicity will matter. Would a state or city police chief or state or city politician be in legal jeopardy with the feds for doing so?
It's a federal crime to resist, oppose, impede or interfere with a federal officer or employee engaged in or on account of their official duties. 18 USC 111.
These clowns are wearing masks, have no warrants, and no ID. How does anyone know for sure that they are federal agents ?
it is not the "official duty" of any federal official to police petty state crimes. By definition they are acting outside of their authority.
Yes and they would be doing it not by the wishes of the governor, but against them.
The original suggestion was arresting ICE agents. According to the Federal government, they would be there to arrest illegal aliens and we're attempting to do so. And that would be the end of the case.
Wrong. They must prove who they are or risk arrest.
ice agents dont have plenary police powers either. particularly if they aren't even identified as ice agents. Plus we're wayyyy past constitutional crisis, state courts SHOULD just be denying motions to remove to federal court.
Federal law doesn't require them to identify themselves. And removal motions are decided in Federal Court, not state court. Or are you suggesting defying Federal Court orders?
Hold them anyway. Use Trump's strategy. Delay, deny, send lawyers in who act stupid and ask the judge to define the word "the." Delay things so long that damage is already done. The arrested guy will not get that time or bail money back.
I mean they have held a guy for like half a year with this strategy. Use it yourself.
There's a loophole for the immunity provided by the Supremacy Clause: "However, this protection is not absolute; if a federal agent acts outside the scope of their duties or violates a 'clearly established' right, they may lose this protection."
If so, better start building cases around that.
I think that's the idea. Blue AGs, it seems, have a conference call every workday morning to confer on what lawsuits to press and so on.
If they act outside the scope of their duties than yes. But that is a question for Federal courts which will generally defer to the Executive branch.
The point is, the courts have been “deferring to the executive branch“ far too much. Unitary Executive Theory is bullshit, and it’s time for state & local leaders to start forcing the issue. We’re not going to get out of this without pushing back, either legally, or if necessary, extra-legally.
Even if so, they need to make a fuss whenever they can.
which happens after they've been identified and arrested lol
Welp they better hope all their paperwork is in order then
He can still arrest these guys, throw them in jail, and force them to prove they are acting on behalf of the federal government. That will waste time and money for ice and trump and probably reveal more shady business in this whole scheme.
This is the right answer. As usual, discovery is a BITCH to deal with.
Now you are talking! The poor publicity will matter especially if the legal show can be carried on during, or better yet all the way from now up to, the 2026 mid-terms. The world is stage after all. Staging things is how maga got in the White House.
get it on record!
And those doing the arresting are likely committing a federal crime, which the federal government will be successful at prosecuting unlike the local government.
It'll take about 6 months to two years to reach SCOTUS again. That's 2 years prison time possibly while you wait.
They need to get indictments from a grand jury. Its possible regular people will refuse to indict. The feds are having trouble with some of their bs assault indictments in DC already. And if they do indict they probably won’t get a conviction.
People in DC are refusing to indict on ridiculous overcharges. That doesn't mean that the much less blue eastern district of Pennsylvania will refuse to indict on more clearly supported charges. For now.
Again. MAKE THEM DO IT. See what happens. Try it! Force trump to go through every fucking step to get his way. He is a lazy, whiny bully. He might even give up!
How is arresting someone a federal crime?
If the someone being arrested is in the process of performing his duties for the federal government, the arrest impedes the performance of such duties and that violates 18 USC 111.
Why do you think the state would arrest someone while they are performing their duties? There are much better options. They can arrest the officer when they are off duty, or better yet just issue an arrest warrant and wait for the officer to turn themselves in.
Arresting someone on account of the performance of their official duties is equally forbidden. I suppose they could issue an arrest warrant and wait (forever) until the subject turned himself in. That puts police officers who might later see this warrant in a potentially dicy position though.
The arrest is not forbidden. They would have to go to trial and prove that all of their actions were in an official capacity. There is no guarantee that the judge or jury would agree. And I don't think an LEO with an outstanding warrant would wait long. It really gets in the way of their career
No, the arrest is clearly forbidden and an actual crime. And, under Trump, the outstanding warrant is probably career enhancing.
The other problem with issuing an arrest warrant is that the identity of the ICE agents is unknown.
Unknown to bystanders or the media. But soon to be unmasked to prosecutors comfortable with issuing subpoenas.
If ICE agents refuse to identify themselves as such then you don't know that's true. Lock them up and have the doj prove who they are. Rinse, repeat.
So lock them up and hold them until the government files for their release. They can sit in jail until the courts hold some hearings.
And take their damn masks off- they won’t of course because many are Proud Boys, Nazi’s and criminals . Arrest them and ID them. Investigate and record their crimes even if Trump pardons them .
But they do so like those chin diapers.
Exactly, too bad trump and DOGE gutted all the oversight agencies and fired any federal employee that might ACTUALLY prosecute … it’s all in the playbook … remember the private meeting in the oval with Lavrov and Kislyak … 😂 …the delivery of Putin’s pamphlet, “How to Take Over Your Own Country” …
Yes, partly that. And partly the assertion of total control of the executive branch by the President.
Trump can't pardon them, but doesn't need to. State charges against a federal officer acting on behalf of the federal government are just invalid.
Hasn’t there ever been a case of a Fed Officer (FBI or NG) who was charged by a State for a wrongful assault or killing? Surprised if not.
Yes. In re Neagle, 135 US 1 (1890). The Supreme Court decided federal officers were immune from state prosecution for actions in their official capacity.
Neagle is distinguishable in many ways. It’s a defense of others case where Fed Neagle was protecting another Fed then charged with a state crime (murder). Let them cite it. Criminal acts while racially profiling to enforce immigration law isn’t the ofc. biz of US govt.
This would clearly not be an official capacity claim. Racial profiling of Hispanics systematically is not within scope of employment. Charge them, indict them and let them claim racial profiling as their defense. They have no other. Let them reveal their tactics. Go on. Have at it. Put them on D
What if the actions are unlawful?
That they are acting on behalf of the federal government immunizes them from state law. And whether they are so acting is a question for federal courts who except in egregious cases are going to defer to the executive branch.
and previous supreme courts would've found that kilmar abrego garcia should be home with his family right now. we've all seen the feds flagrantly break the law over and over again since january. why can't philly do the same???
Which is why it's important that federal agents clearly identify themselves. Otherwise any thug can put on a mask and kidnap people while claiming to be ICE. If you have no way of knowing if someone is a federal agent there's no reason to assume it.
Uh huh. See: “I was just following orders” defense, Nuremberg Trials. Constitutional protection of the Supremacy Clause only applies if the officer's actions were within the scope of their LAWFUL federal duties.
Krasner is making it clear which actions aren’t going to be considered an official capacity. The definition can be further adjudicated after the harms are stopped.
He isn't relevant to that decision. It is entirely up to the federal government, possibly lightly constrained by federal courts in really egregious cases.
This, btw and fyi, is part of the massive systemic breakdown and invitation to corruption y'all should really see about fixing.
According to you the Nazi soldiers were innocents ?!?? The excuse “I was only following orders didn’t work in Norimberga .” If a federal official or soldier is following illegal orders goes to jail.
Did it seem like I was opening a dialogue?
Courts are very very slow. If you get locked up for 3 months waiting for trial, the court does not rewind time and give you back all that time loss (and financial damages to you from having been gone 3 months)
Well since those actions are illegal and outside the actual scope of their duties immunity won't apply And they can be held while that's argued Individually For each one
What would happen is that the Federal officials would identify themselves as federal employees on duty. And the local police would stand down and withdraw.
They don't have to, legally, if there's probable cause to believe they're committing a crime
But as long as they are acting on behalf of the federal government they are not committing a crime. And if they identify themselves as federal employees on duty and are doing things federal employees might do there is no longer probable cause.
It seems like that’s based on the Supremacy clause which says federal law takes precedent over state. If the fed agent is following an unlawful order, which sending National Guards into a state without consent is, I don’t see the Supremacy clause holding.
bsky.app/profile/jarl... That's an argument made post-arrest, in a motion to dismiss the charges It doesn't prevent them from being arrested, nor does it eliminate probable cause, since there's no reason to assume they are acting within the scope of their duties if they are committing crimes
Wow. So "above the law ICE" can shoot anyone on 5th Avenue, terrify, pile on, manhandle, injure, violate civil & human rights, ignore due process & Miranda, wear masks, dress in camo, fully armed, no badge,in unmarked cars/vans, tinted windows, providing no identification, & forcibly kidnap people.
So what? Do it anyway. You think Cankles gives a shit if something is illegal? No! He does it anyway. Punish these fuckers.
If they don’t have warrants and they don’t have official identification then it isn’t official business and they aren’t actually fed officers.
While I wish that were true, none of it is.
Says another neolib. Give up, I hear you say? Keep letting them drag us further to the right, are you, just as planned? We won’t forget all the enabling.
I would love to see one of them arrested and identified. I’m certain there are at least hundreds, if not more, who are not trained federal agents. This administration needs to be exposed and we need to find out who these goons really are.
Exactly why we have to keep trying to unmask and charge agents with State and local crimes. Even if they are not held accountable we should be able to find out more about them via the process
This. Force trump to go through the legal process to get every ice agent out. It is exactly what he is forcing every person he kidnaps to do.
Bingo!
You are suggesting that local police get into a shooting match with federal officers. At the end of this process, it is the local police who would wind up in jail
Are you suggesting that federal agents would shoot anyone who tried to arrest them?
💯 Yes! Do the same shit they are doing to people.
Except, oops, no. The federal government cannot authorize someone to break the law, and federal LEOs are no more immune to criminal prosecution than anyone else is.
But technically, and perhaps legally, how do you know they’re acting on behalf of the government if they cannot prove who they are, and they cannot show an appropriate warrant?
Of course they can. Do you really believe a cop can't pull over a postal carrier for DUI?
only applies if the fed official is acting reasonably within the bounds of its federal authority.
It applies if the Fed official is acting on behalf of the federal government. And that is mostly up to the executive branch in respect of their officers and employees.
no it applies if the fed official is acting within the scope of his federal duties according to federal law. If they are not doing that, then the supremacy clause doesn't apply.
Again, that is mostly going to be determined by the executive branch. Federal courts are going to be very reluctant to conclude otherwise except in truly clear and egregious cases. See qualified immunity.
That all happens after they are arrested and prosecution begins
I imagine the DA for one of America’s largest cities is aware of qualified immunity as both a broad concept and specific case law. Not sure how federal courts would have jurisdiction over state-level prosecutions. does a federal officer arguing qualified immunity automatically change venue?
I referenced qualified immunity only to show the degree of deference armed officers get. What protects the federal officers in this case is not qualified immunity but the Supremacy Clause, the Federal removal statute and the statute criminalizing interference with federal employees performing 1/2
This is just desperate cope lmao
Or on account of their federal duties. (My reference to qualified immunity may have been more confusing than helpful however.)
To specifically answer your question 28 USC 1442 allows any federal officials or employees being prosecuted by a state for any act performed under color of their federal office to remove the state prosecution to federal court.
If they are wearing masks and won’t identify themselves, arresting them seems like the only reasonable course of action.
If they’re unidentifiable, then just STAND YOUR GROUND. Act first and sort them out later.
Can’t believe they’re willing to take that risk. Just takes one (not so) crazy.
They cannot do police stuff, their is no principle in the law that gives them benefit of doubt. If they abuse peoples rights they can be prosecuted and they know it and most absolutely want as little involvement with policing as possible because they know its a quagmire legally.
Arrest them and see what happens after that. Otherwise, dictators will take control of our country.
Finally
Finally, a state official who is taking seriously his obligation to protect his state’s residents from the lawless bullshittery of the Trump Gestapo thugs. Where in the fuck have the state officials in CA been in this regard?
Love this guy!
Who will bring them in for prosecution?
REALLY? Let’s make this viral!!! This information is really important, especially for the victims of this bullying tactics. To those Restaurants owners , it’s payback time!!!
ALL individual ICE agents or Military swore an oath to the Constitution! No way can they say they were ORDERED to commite crimes! EACH of them INDIVIDUALLY swore an oath! If they committe crimes, they will be PROSECUTED!!!
Yes!
Hell yes they can and should be prosecuted.
The city of brotherly love 👊🤝 acts up 😏 go Philly🤌 🫶
On the streets on Philadelphia 🤌 🤝 👊 🫳🫶 🫳🗽
These "ICE" kidnappers are cowards "hiding" behind masks. Disguised or not, they have left a papertrail behind. Anyone accepting the signing bonus/pay can expect a knock on their own door one day...
He is absolutely correct. I concur. Now, he has to be sure his state police and city police are up to the task at hand. Arrest these motherfuckers and throw them in state jails.
Claim that you felt fear and empty a magazine through their heads. That’s what they do.
tear them down
Philly cops love violence. They absolutely will stand with ICE and the Guard as they also hate Krasner. When will democrats realize cops are right wing terrorists?
#GovenorShapiro Be the hero we need.
Someone please arrest these Russian traitors
How do you prosecute someone you cant identify?
So this includes Donald? Even though he has an immunity card? Is his immunity card transferable to be used by other administrator heads? Or it’s only self serving to one criminal president ?
but WILL they?
The problem here is exactly the trap that they’ve laid their mask. How are they identified? How are they apprehended? Etc, etc.
AI is at the point it can recreate faces somewhat despite face covering
I wasn’t aware of this AI ability to reconstruct facial recognition based on face mask and sunglasses, but perhaps you could point me to that source- thanks.
Police are the only answer when faced with a criminal, right? That’s American jurisprudence? Who arrested King George? Fuck illegal laws. And fuck the police that would dare to enforce them against a free American. May they receive their just rewards.
“so what we have here is, apparently, and I don’t want to sound harsh to any party, but what we have here seems to be a Nazi invasion. Please, no offense intended to Nazis, but can we at least admit reality? Or do we have to keep saying Jesus is returning?”
“Can” ain’t “will”.
Krasner would absolutely delight in such a case, especially prior to the Nov. election. I am skeptical that Phila police will make an arrest that Krasner can prosecute. Could a wrongfully detained resident could work directly with Krasner?
But can they be countered with force, just like any other criminal in the same act?
Krasner versus Krasnov
Well played.
Why did the police aid ice on raid in grocery store in Norristown a month or so ago?
💙💙💙
It's a coup
Let all the States follow this!
Oh hell yes. The best post I've seen today. Thank you.
I always was a fan of Krasner
This should be on loudspeaker.
Start prosecuting them, @governor.ca.gov cc: @govpritzker.illinois.gov
Any federal agents, regardless of agency affiliation, should be prosecuted if they are breaking the law. “Arresting” people without their due process rights is against the law. No law enforcement agency should be allowed to hide behind a mask with no identification.
Come to Philly. We will not throw Subs at you. We will throw Hoagies. While we eat a Cheesesteak.
I ain’t wasting a tasty sammich on those a-holes; they get pelted with butterscotch krimpets.
Good to know. Do as @govpritzker.illinois.gov says and take down their names! Look at these SOBs intimidating a young woman. 😡
But aren’t you from India , pack your bags
It’s time other cities do the same thing. Trump has sent his maga terrorist to Detroit in advance to kidnap women so he could have an excuse to send the national parts
Now they are picking up trash in D.C. I can deal with that! I would love to interview these guys and find out if this is what they signed up for. How humiliating.
The only way to "identify" ICE agents are the "shame masks" and that mis-matched "tactical" junk they bought online They could be ANYBODY Any group could do the same and get away with all kinds of crime The Trump DOJ is so CRIMINALLY DISORGANIZED they have no idea who's kidnapping whom or where
Good
Civil war, anyone?
Please do!!
It shouldn't be "... can be prosecuted", his answer must be "... WILL be prosecuted". 😖
Then fucking arrest them!!
What about “stand your ground” laws?!?
Prosecute the fuck outta those fools!
Exactly. We need more of this!
I have been WAITING for someone from state to step up and say this. Hallelujah!
Many are saying that federal officials are immune somehow, in any case they must identify themselves and show their credentials ( not be masked!)
Yay for Larry Krasner!!!!!
Yes keep a record with video evidence.
AMERICA 1ST - NATIONAL (GUARD) TOUR. Coming to a city near you! bsky.app/profile/opsa...
Upper East Side? YOU MEAN HARLEM???? Oh, good luck with that.
No. The Upper East side (of Central Park) is a tony, expensive neighborhood. For that matter, so is Harlem these daze .. although Harlem is much further north: maps.app.goo.gl/F9CipzE1SkYk...
So, they're going to patrol the fancy white neighborhood? Will they attend the Met Gala?
Exactly!
Right. And. J6 cop killers…
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
In other words, don’t write checks that Trump’s ass won’t cash for you…
fucking better late than never
I like this guy.
When and how and by whom?
📌
This is the way
My exact stand all along. I want all states to start acting appropriately. State police have to be trained and expected to react to these for what they are...lawless kidnappings.
All states should start prosecuting these ICE assholes.
Go Philly!!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
THANK YOU LARRY! I made a post on Reddit about something similar and everyone was “nuh uh. Feds are immune” ALL liberal city DAs need to do this. LOOKING AT YOU LA!
Funny thing about being immune is you are still held in jail, still must show for a trial, etc. It isn't like it's just "lol ok" and doesn't cause damage to them. Any arrest and detainment is damaging to a person. Lock up even for 24 hours and then months of court dates is a deterrent.
Philly like NYC ain’t gonna take no shit. Someone’s going to be killed because we’re fucking ready for their asses.
Can never seems to equal will.
Blast this on every government channel
Good point. Hope Pritzker & Johnson follow.
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They can only be prosecuted -- IF -- they can be identified And, in any case, prosecution is an "after the fact" remedy to a situation which demands a rapid response. The courts will not save us. They can't. And they've proven it time and time again. They are too corrupted and too slow.
About. Fucking. Time. I said this shit two months ago. bsky.app/profile/some...
I don’t disagree with trying, but many judges will likely dismiss cases before they get to juries.
You're right. Some probably will. Fuck 'em. That's okay, because some won't.
Getting arrested by itself and held at all is damaging even if you are let out. one week in jail is one week you and your family aren't earning any money at all.
I want to see that first ICE goon get hauled before a grand jury…
This will lead to confrontation between state and federal LEO. I’m predicting it will lead to violence that Trump will further use to justify his fascism.
This is where the threat of civil conflict is the most likely, when federal and state forces clash and violence breaks out.
FAFO!
Then, cities must step up and instruct their law enforcement officers to start making arrests.
But will they comply?
They can just be fired unilaterally then and can spend tens of thousands and possible months in court to argue for their reinstatement.
PA National guard vs WV national guard?
Hope every blue state follows his lead
Hell yeah buddy
#Governors. Arrest them.
They’re restraining, beating, and throwing down people! Not to mention stalking and picking out anyone they want and breaking into peoples homes! These are hate crimes across the board and should be charged! What are the police officers duties, to stand down?
Please god, let them all be held accountable
So why is this news? Of course it is. I have been dumbfounded by the inaction of authorities against these crimes against the American people.
How can we stop them ?
What good is prosecution if there is no longer enforcement?
@msnbc.com Ask every ICE agent and every Natl Guard member carrying a weapon to see their gun permit.
Unfortunately… “prosecution” isn’t scary for maga … trump will have them out in no time … even if it’s a REAL judge …
Get them on state crimes, at least that's a barrier.
They could easily be mistaken for kidnappers or sex traffickers by people with carry permits.
Reposting from March 2025. Time to bring it back. www.democracydocket.com/opinion/if-t...
Democratic leaders are standing up to protect their citizens.
Lol. No they are not
Words are not enough
YES!!! WE DEMAND LEGAL-ACTIONS!!! LEGAL ACTIONS THAT WILL PROTECT ALL INDIVIDUALS ~IMMIGRANTS/US CITIZENS INCLUDING THOSE WITH WORKING VISAS!!!
There have been tons of lawsuits from many dem states.
That doesn’t suit the “do-nothing Democrats” narrative, so inconvenient facts are ignored.
I certainly hope what Krasner is saying is true👽
Local law enforcement should be arresting those goons who are kidnapping people.
Can be but never seem to be.
As soon as there's footage of the National Guard in handcuffs, Fox News is going to run that 24/7 while screaming that Democrats are arresting soldiers while letting criminals go free, so it's never going to happen, no matter what they do.
Yet…
Good, the sooner they are arrested the better .
But they won't be.
Actually, that doesn't work. The agent will simply remove the case to federal court. www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/...
The agent will still be arrested. They will still enter jail even if for a limited time. They will still be forced to make court date(s) inconveniencing them. Business owners will also make their own decisions to hire someone with an arrest record. Acquittal doesn't give you back time.
Read the history of northern sheriffs arresting U.S. Marshals for kidnapping people under the Fugitive Slave Act. Result? Removed to federal court and dismissed.
Would you prefer for the AG to do nothing, since one time it was dismissed?
Not one time, every time. Northern sheriffs arrested U.S. Marshals for kidnapping and returning slaves to owners under Fugitive Slave Act. Southern sheriffs did the same over arrests of Ku Klux Klan members. All removed to federal court and dismissed. Your only option is to fight under federal law.
I am absolutely not a lawyer, but i don't think those are the same things. Are the US marshals the national guards in this scenario? You're mentioning acts that were law at the time, and presently we are in peace times and the governor and mayor do not want national guards policing citizens.
The statute covers any person acting under color of federal law. That would cover agents or officers of ICE or any other federal agency plus any federalized national guard. www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/...
How does Posse Comitatus come into that? Or the governor and mayor saying no to their presence?
The issues to be determined by removal are what court (federal or state) is going to decide and what law (federal or state) that court will use to decide. Presumably, whichever court would then reach the questions of the Posse Comitatus Act and the effect of the governor and mayor not consenting.
Who are the slave equivalents in this scenario?
Anyone arrested by federal law enforcement.
Who is going to arrest them?
State Troopers?
Looks like Philadelphia is setting up to be Nuremberg 2.0. (Please, Philly please!) Krasner sounds like he's just waiting for the first ICE a-hole to try the "I was just following orders" defense, and I'm so here for it!
Great. Now make it CLEAR to YOUR police force that in NO WAY are they to assist in ANY of these crimes‼️ Your National Guard as well.. Because THEY ARE YOUR NATIONAL GUARD, which the Constitution gives you SOLE POWER to use to protect your individual state from a rogue government or outside threats‼️
See. Simple. Just keep saying this. Fight from here. Stop saying ‘neither the mayor nor the governor asked for this so-called “help”..’ We know. They only ever need help with fundraising for re-election. Start with the real problem: you can’t deputize thugs to cross state lines to commit crimes.
