Another day, another inexperienced but hopeful writer, announcing that they have “been offered a book deal” for £20,000. Turns out that the author is being expected to PAY THIS to the publisher, not the other way round. Folks, no publisher does this.
Peep Show has a great EP about this.
This is obvs not a 'publisher' but a scammer or, at best, a printer.
That's the only book deals I got and why no one sees my book about the real secrets of the Universe. If anything it would make today's sci-fi technology look primitive.
That's not a book deal. That's not even being paid in 'exposure' like an actor.
wouldn't that be "self publishing"?
Honestly, I think these publishers hit a gold mine of stupidity with these offers.
Sounds like the ‘Open Access’ deals academic publishers cook up with universities. The university pays £10k, the authors get £350 between them, no royalties, and six hard copies to share between them.
It used to simply be called The Vanity Press. There were dozens of players.
It still is, Writer Beware has a long list of scam publishers. writerbeware.blog/category/van...
I had that pulled on me a couple of times... I had my sister to read the contract, and asked me a couple of question... Before I got it.
Vanity publisher... they are predatory.
I am offering all authors $35,000 book deal.
I'm so glad I'm a poet. No one tries to scam a poet. And no one edits his work. (If someone tries to change a punctuation mark, I tell them where they can put their editing pen.)
That’s when I stopped writing & imagining that I could write ✌🏻
Don't let scammers stop you from writing. It's a journey not a sprint. Every craft needs to be developed through practice.
Thanks ✌🏻
WTF
They prey on the naive & hopeful.⁰ I have a friend who has a storage unit full of cheaply bound copies of his original manuscript. Cost him $7,000, which, as in your story, he thought he was being paid.
What is an author to do when no one will give you the time of day? and I mean no one
Look in the top left corner of the home screen on your Android phone? :-)
Lol
Self-publishing is not exploitative, and you get to keep your copyright.
agreed
You need to prove the date when you wrote the work, before somebody else posted exactly the same content and now claims his was first and yours is a copy of his. Submit your work to some government registry, not sure if USPatOff or Library of Congress. Make PDFs and post as attachments on TwitX/bsky
That's not necessary: work is automatically timestamped by your computer. And DON'T post pdfs on social media: at best they can use it to train AI, and at worst, their terms and conditions can often be interpreted to mean that they now own your copyright.
[work is automatically timestamped by your computer.] That's no proof of anything. On your personal computer, if disconnected from the Internet so that it won't keep the clock synchronized with Internet time, you can manually set the computer's clock to any date you want, copy the text to a new doc.
You just need your name in the work. Berne Convention (Art 15). There are "no formalities" rules (Art 5). In a dispute you show evidence to a judge such as your name in the metadata or you demonstrate your writing prowess to show similarities to the disputed work. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJS5...
The meta-data can be edited to say anything you wanr, and all instances of the author's name can be edited to show the forger's lame. Only files on a trustworthy archive site, with a policy of save-once edit-never, can prove when you archived the previously-written work.
No site can be relied upon to stay trustworthy. If you’re afraid of your work being stolen, don’t put it online.
You're worried that the Library of Congress could be destroyed in a nuclear explosion, so that all documents archived there would be destroyed? Not only you, but nobody else in the USA could prove they already wrote their work before then? Or more likely, the dollar will collapse and LofC will cease
There is a world outside the US.
Yeah, you can be in the EU or UK which are going bankrupt to support Ukraine. When the Euro or Pound crash, all banks close, nobody can buy food, all workers abandon their offices at registry of copyrights to go looking for food, looters destroy all copyright documents, as buildings burn down, ...
Become a better writer.
How is that possible if not one person ever reads your early work and gives you useful feedback about it? From 1991 to 2014 I wrote large amounts of computer software, all without pay, was unable to find anyone willing to try using any of it, so no feedback. 1994-2014 no sw job interview.
I have been thru this 10x + As a 1st time publisher, the author does have to realize that no one knows them and they are expected to get out there bc no publishing house is going to take a chance on a dark horse 50 Shades was initially self published as well My work: www.amazon.ca/Adrift-Mitch...
I'm not talking about self-publishing, but about vanity publishing.
almost the same difference you feel your work has quality and you want it out there, but the big publishers wont give you the time in addition no literary agent will as well you are left with a few online options and advertising options all lead to the same spot, pay or move on
Not 'same difference' at all. In the former you retain ownership of your work, the bulk of royalties. Yo';re merely paying for a platform and print-on-demand. In the latter they are preteding to be a publisher and charging you the fee for not critically reading/editing your work. Entirely different!
There are a number of very important differences, including cost, control over your IP and the chance to reach an audience. Trust me: I'm not new to this.
Where does your content come from, Joanne? Mine is all personal experiences that I have transferred into stories...maybe this is normal
Ditto... They are quite predatory in trying to convince you that they are there to help you Garner exposure, for the right $ YouTube interview with an influencer $2000 USD More X tweets $250 per month It's somewhat true what they are saying But, there is also a great deal of BS with them
It's not true that no publisher will take a chance on a dark horse. First time debut authors get published all the time. You just may face 100 rejections. Self publishing is not inherently better or worse than trad publishing.
Yep. Often debut authors actually have a BETTER chance of getting a book deal because every publisher wants to discover the next big thing, plus you aren’t held back by the sales of previous books that may have underperformed.
There is a term for this type of publishing. It should be avoided. It’s like the mistake I made publishing a bio w/ Amazon. One gets NO real credit. Thinking about retyping the manuscript for a commercial publisher.
It's called a Vanity Publisher.
Apparently, there's one that charges £5000 to publish, and you've to pay the same again for each book...
You don't pay publishers and you don't pay agents. Full stop.
I enjoy writing and reading. But I never made it a professional goal. Why because I learnt early on that there are too many critical observers deciding your fate. I’m grateful for all the authors out there that take the time to produce literature. I will always admire your tenacity. Thank You.
Thank you for being a good soul and the type of reader we should all aspire to be
Excuse me, mr publisher, what the hell are you doing?
No money comes out of the writers pocket in a legitimate publishing deal
We used to call these “vanity publishers”
Sloppy work is becoming the style today. No one says, oops, I’m so sorry that happened, I’ll fix it. Today they tell you that this will significantly create an expensive collectors issue.
Here I am inexperienced and hopeful but like... towards even finishing one of my books 😂
Yeah. I was so disappointed, as a very young author, to receive a letter saying they would publish for money.
we are seeing this a lot in clinical literature too, we fund the research, do the work, write it up and then journals are asking us to pay for it to be published. In some cases (hybrid open access) we have to buy it back!
Yes! No reputable pub does this-- But std pub industry now calls this "coop publishing model"-- Author fronts $ & likely pays % of promo &editing! Pub still takes % for "pub name respect" on cover, And "both" work to ⬆️ sales. Title will still be backlisted in 3 yrs. 1/
Author likely sold all rights-so has to negotiate buyback w $ if wants to relaunch or cont supporting own work. Seen time &again as good books are shelved at 3yrs or rts sold off to 2dary pub who dsnt care. Q everything in contract. Ask self why need a pub like this save illusion of gatekeeping.
You are describing scientific publishing, where almost every publisher charges the authors(s) a fee to publish their manuscripts, after other scientists reviewed it for the publisher without getting paid. The authors can pay extra if they want the readers to access the manuscript for free though.
Thanks, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...
Not quite. Although the journal model is terrible, the publishers of scientific journals don't lead you to think thousands or millions of people will buy your paper and you will become rich and famous
True, within the boundaries of predatory brainwashing the big sci journal publishers make no outright false promises! Plus sites like pubmed ensure that publications can be found, read and cited even if not published in the most high impact power houses of expensive publishers.
Still, they charge a lot for pubs the writers aren't paid for Going from journalism to academia was a lil shocking that way
Whaat .. 😂😂 Dear Authors, don’t miss this exciting chance to make your publishers some real money We are offering a range of cost effective book contracts from entry level pamphlets from £5k to 9 book trilogies at £50k We know talent, submit your bank statements & we’ll assess yours
WTAF
For 20 grand, you could have a few thousand copies printed and still have cash over for advertising.
In my case, it was a German "pseudo-publisher." Ironically, I wrote a book (now two) about the Italian mob—thieves, murderers, and the like—and ended up needing a lawyer to protect my work from a so-called publisher who wanted money from me...
They're everywhere, I received a similar 'offer' when I was trying to get my first book published. Had to get a lawyer involved too, because they had my manuscript...Anyway, I'm happily self-publishing now!
But don’t you need to pay a small company to self publish? I don’t get it. Who puts the books together for you to sell?
Publish on KDP Amazon or other similar sites. The formatting, typesetting, cover and co: either you learn how to do it or have someone else doing that for you. That may cost something but certainly not 20k!🙂
And the important thing is that when you truly self-publish, you always retain control of your copyright. Vanity publishers will let you pay them to take away control of your work essentially forever.
Thank you very much! I’m copying/pasting these comments into my files so I don’t forget:))
Really great info which I appreciate! I will probably need some help. It’s weird how a couple of people I know who have published basically said “Why should I help you? I had to do it.” But I also know someone who I think will treat it differently & I know his prices would be fair😊
You can do it yourself. Travis Baldree has generously written a guide that goes through his experience (US based, but I assume similar). medium.com/@travisbaldr...
Fantastic - Thank you so much! I better write this down NOW😀
Wow! I had no idea that was a thing. Thanks for this note to be on the lookout for predatory publishers. 🙏
The book publishing process is broken, seemingly beyond repair.
It's not publishing.
Yes, but what people mean is that publishers are not interested in what they write.
Another result of GOOP/TRA et al
Yeah. There's a whole industry that charges authors to print their books.
Correct 💯
You'll pay the dosh, they'll print some copies, and leave it up to you to sell them. They will not distribute or publicise.
I write because it is fun and challenging. I’m new at it and have so much to learn. Practice, practice, and more practice. Right now I’m working on smuggling info into the story. It’s so hard for me.
Yeah, never easy. I outline before draft 1 but I'm still desperate to info dump in the early chapters just so it's on paper and I don't have to hold it in my tiny brain 😀
😭
Yep, same here. This is the new publishing of Books.
Vanity Vanity Thy name is author. The real quote is frailty, frailty & it's aimed at women. Shakespeare's time was a very different world. But misquotes are the least of those budding authors concerns. We all have a book in us? But how many want to read it? Looking at the author's income, not many.
This looks like an interesting read
It's on Amazon and can be bought from bookshops. Hope you enjoy it 🙂
I don't use Amazon but I'll see if my local bookshop can order it. What's the ISBN?
So nobody uses the term “vanity press” any more, huh?
They do, but the landscape is a lot bigger and more complex than when there were just trad publishers and vanity publishers.
I made a good living as a writer, but not by publishing books. Last gig was as a salaried speechwriter. Now, I’m working on a book, writing in my own voice for a change, but with no delusions of a big payday coming. And you can bet I’m not paying any “publisher.”
A lot of writers are self publishing. And self promoting. It’s expensive. And it’s not terribly likely to get an author published by a real publishing house. I guess it’s caveat emptor.
Vanity publishing is *not* the same as self-publishing.
What’s the difference?
Read my last post. :-)
Discordia Publishing would never charge an author/artists to publish their work. But we absolutely do love being paid in exposure. Publishers LOVE exposure!
Outrageous.
If publishers don’t see value in publishing your book you should consider not wasting your resources on a book the experts don’t want. Test the market by publishing it digitally with a copyright.
That's shit advice
Wha?!?
Used to be called #VanityPress
Seeing this more and more. These people use the names and credentials of actual agents, editors, publishers & producers. It’s ridiculously brazen. When is the industry going to do something about it?
Even I know there are boutique publshers that get paid by authors to publish books.. the the author can claim to be a published author.
They are *not* publishers. They are print-on-demand services, disguised as publishers.
Free to publish through kindle though.
Self-publishing is much less expensive: and the author keeps hold of their own IP.
I recently explained to someone that if they choose to self publish they should go into it willingly and fully informed. Maybe one day that's what I'll be doing, but I'm not going to do it with a company that pretends it's doing me a favor. If I pay someone, they are a VENDOR.
So “self publishing” then?
That’s what I was wondering. It sounds like they are talking about scholars? Because at some point, I am going to publish & I’ve looked into the publishers that work w/ self publishers. They all charge.
Swindlers do. monroemurder.com
Everyone wants to be a published author; few are able to write anything of value.
This scam, across so many industries other than book deals and usually targeting creatives, is the one that’s the hardest for me to talk people away from. We’re so used to paying for everything, it makes sense we’d have to pay for opportunity; but this isn’t opportunity. If they buy it, they want
WTF!!!????
Yep, another scam
Whatever they may call themselves, publishers that ask their authors to pay (or contribute to) publishing costs are NOT publishers. They are merely selling (often overpriced) publishing services to authors desperate for validation, and taking their IP as well as their money.
It definitely needs called something like Publishing Assistance and 20K sounds insane. Is this for a few thousand hard copies? At that point, find one that that simply edits and gets the book onto the online sites. Those folks are a lot cheaper.
This happened to my mom in to l the 90’s.
My father did this: He spent years typing his treatise on a manual typewriter and using a mimeograph ro make copies to distribute, then hired some vanity press to make higher-quality copies in book form to sell, but couldn't find any willing buyers, so he donated most copies to public libraries.
They are generally not taking their IP, and vanity press is the only way 99.9% of writers will ever get into print. There are scams to be sure, but there isn't anything inherently wrong with taking pay to print and distribute someone's book.
Wrong. The outfit I'm referring to *does* take the IP, and it's a practice that is growing. Self-publishing is a far better option that signing a contract with a vanity press, and you're far more likely to sell books that way.
[far better option {that/than} signing a contract] Typo?
Happen to a friend of mine. Heartbreaking.
Absolutely. Unless they are academic publishers, such as Elsevier. Who charge people at all stages and yet still don't offer anything to reviewers and expect that job done for free.
Reviewers are supposed to be other scientists working in the same or a closely related field. They don't get paid money, but they get to see the manuscript months or even years before it comes out in a journal, so they can start follow-up research projects long before anyone else.
Yes, but the workload is spread very unevenly. Some people are very good/kind at accepting review requests whereas others never seem to...
Yes, you are correct. I heard about all this several years ago, not sure where, maybe Science Friday.
Sonia is a Professor of Bioarcheology, so you can take her word for it 😉
Elsevier (among others) run a racket.
No academic should ever pay to publish. It's bad enough as it is already.
Totally agree, but sadly/ [expletive deleted!] some UK universities do not pay the required open access charges despite that form of publication being required for REF.
That’s for journal publication, not books. Textbooks do pay authors (a bit). The context here I think was fiction to start with.
Some do and some do not... But I do agree that fiction is different. Which was sort of the point I was making.
I can’t understand how a government body can force open access without providing the funds to make that happen.
Indeed!
Also art and photography book publishers
I have heard terrible things from colleagues who need lots of images in their publications...
Question - if these publications don't charge a fee, how is the journal going to be printed? Many have gone to e-journals; however, there's still set up, etc. Reviewers make time because these articles strengthen their field of research.
Agreed. This used to be paid for by subscriptions, but many publishers have become huge money-making systems at major cost to universities and/or academics. And re reviewing; some academics do make time (or try to) whereas others do not... & there is lots of research showing unequal service workload
Don't forget the contract researchers I worked for a contract research firm for 29yrs. We did both soft science research 🙋🏼♀️ as well as hard science. So I'm very familiar with scientific journals. I wasn't a reviewer, but I knew several. Most reviewed because they wanted to help their peers.
Forgot, we were not for profit.
*stares in scientific publication*
lol
As an ex academic librarian it drives me crackers. It's a racket to rival Al Capone.
Hey, that's unfair... Al Capone doesn't deserve to be compared to Academic Publishers! 🤣
I mean, nothing wrong with bootlegging, sex work, and transportation of goods. Plus, he also had a soup kitchen. Top bloke!* *If you ignore all the violence, murder, threats, fraud, and coercion.
Thank you for saying this - it amazes me that universities are OK with all this. An academic is paid by university to do research -> works and writes up paper-> sends to publisher for free or pays (usually University does) for it to be open access (£4k-5k) -> University pays publisher for access!?
Used to go to the trade fairs. There was a very big one at Earls Court, London. Emerald had a monster exhibition stand, an edifice with two floors and attractive PR women dressed like airline staff giving out expensive tat. 😬
Welcome to the world of medical publishing
Was there not a point where so many people wanted to publish whether good or bad that publishers basically were trying to cover their costs? Instead of placing a bet that a work will make money?
No genuine publisher takes on a book it thinks won't sell. If they think a book won't sell, they won't publish it. That's how they make profit. It isn't a question of "covering costs."
But what if they don't think it will sell but the writer is adamant about publishing? So wouldn't they just do the service for a fee instead? Real talent then gets caught up in this "new normal".
So many vanity press scammers! Why not just self-publish and cut out that huge chunk of money given to publishers? Those days are over. I can put my book online and advertise across social media just as well as any publishing house.
As an aspiring writer this is so helpful for you to post this for me. Something I need to watch out for
Never pay to be published. Check out #writerbeware who have a lot of info on perils to avoid and vanity publishers who scam newbie authors.
📌
and maybe follow @victoriastrauss.com too
You have really try for saying your mind that nice 👍
"Writers sign the BACK of checks"!
Vanity Publishing is a "Thing" I did a Coffee Table Book of Antique New England Bottles of Various Sorts that the Author Self-Published at her own expense. We did a "Turn-Key" Production from Photography to Leather-Bound Books.
I wonder if this payment also includes a Nigerian royal title?😏
These scams have been around for a long time. They're based on vanity, someone pays money to say they're a "published" writer/author.
SCAM!
It's vanity publishing masquerading as genuine publishing.
lmao
Epstein ~ Read. Respond. Resist. (~);} sign.moveon.org/petitions/ep...
.
It must be Trump publishing co.
self publish. yeah you get to do your own marketing (or pay a little extra) but then it's a true transaction of you paying the company for their services and materials, while you control where/how/how much to sell. heck the company i work for even offers ebook conversion and distribution too.
Oh god :(
This used to be the go-to place for publishing. But they got lost in the digital dust of the internet www.facebook.com/prededitors/
THAT is how these scammers prey on the "hopeful" writer I got scammed in the early noughties (2000s) Then I clapped back and sent the Attorney General of New York the information on the "editor" and they got shut down, fined, and put on probation.
I complained about Austin Macauley to the NY AG and was ignored.
AM are by far the most common name I hear in this context.
Send them proof of extorsion and fraud. That's what I had to do. I sent the receipts.
Huh!?
This happened to me a few years ago. After I opened the envelope and saw the contract, I began to tremble. This is it, I thought; the day I had awaited for nigh on forty years. It was only on the third speed read-through that I realised that the advance cited wouldn't be heading my way.
😳😳😳😳
@bendunnell.bsky.social British London Publishing? It's all going off in Denmark.
All of my college writing professors warned me about vanity publishers. You don’t pay for publishing.
I will publish your book for only 10,000 dollars! And by publish I mean "send your unread, unedited manuscript to a PoD place". PS: You must also cover the shipping charges. And the PoD charges. The 10K is my fee for "publishing" your book. C'mon, where my suckers at?
LOL
Pure exploitation. Not offering a bonus for the book is one thing, but demanding the author pay them is a serious red flag. Its fraud.
Sadly, no, it isn't fraud. It is very exploitative, though.
whaaaaat
I just went through the same thing, and the company doing it is a reputable company. They charge 15,000, you have to pay extra for paperbacks, and they can not guarantee distribution. I will not do it.
If I’m going to read a book, I want to make sure it has been published by a credible publisher and not a self-published book by a vanity press. I have read too many self- published books only to get as far as the first few pages and realize they have not been edited and copy edited properly.
Oh ugh. Because I’ve talked to a couple of these smaller publishers (one is local & isn’t cheap) & it seems like they help you through the entire process.
I know someone here in the states who paid $5k to have her book printed. I bought a copy. It was simply awful. Perhaps publishers have reasons for not buying an author's writing.
Publishers publish what they think they will sell. Sometimes good writers fall through the cracks. No-one is infallible - but they are professionals, and they usually know their business.
Of course they do. They're called 'vanity publishers'. Where you pay them to publish your book because you think it's good and can afford it, as opposed to actually *being* good.
I’m not even a writer and I know this is not the way it works
Quite a few publishers do this. "Vanity publishing" has been a thing for quite a long time.
And there have *never* been so many of them.
But my point stands. "Vanity publishers" are *not* publishers. A real publisher makes its profit from selling books to readers, not from selling services to authors.
And even then, if someone want to self publish something there are better ways to to about it than the vanity press Probably a bit more work, but still much better ways to go about it As an example, I am working on a little art project for my own enjoyment, that I never expect anyone
But friends and family to even see. But, when it's way more advanced, if I decided I wanted a physical book to document it, and give away copies to friends and family, again, I wouldn't go to a vanity publisher!
Is Amazon a "bit more work"? I just had a friend self-publish a novella for the first time. Amazon really supplies one stop shopping, including covers and editors, if you don't want to learn how to do anything. He literally just pressed a button and was out in the world within like 3 days.
Yes, there are options for self-publishing which allow the author to make a fairly handsome return from success: www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhIa...
So just call it vanity printers. You pay to have stuff printed and bound, just like at Kinkos, except in higher quality book form.
The music 'business' is worse. After writing, recording, and producing stuff at your own expense, you can submit to multifarious nefarious 'industry professionals', with a fee, for advice, 'promotional opportunities' and blah blah: open.spotify.com/track/78dVxm...
...or you can print up your own CDs, sell them at gigs (to people who heard and liked your songs minutes ago) and make MUCH more profit off each disc.
I continue to do that, as well as having a lot of stuff online. I long ago learned to ignore the chancers and con artists on LinkedIn etc.
Beware of scams
They never learn. No matter how often it's said, no matter what a simple web search would show, they keep falling for this.
Correct, some people are so desperate for validation that they'll believe they're special even when it's a scammer who gives them attention. 🫠
I watched a whole program about this publisher scam on YouTube. It's one of those YouTubers who dedicates their time scamming the scammers to out their bullshit. These scammers also use real publisher's company names. Crazy.
MDNI
Austin Macauley does at near $4000. They also botch editing, production, and marketing.
They do. In digital age money is everything & the days of being discovered ala Fitzgerald are over. After 2 yrs seeking an agent or publisher, I got a similar deal but a lot less $ from what's known as a cooperative publisher w mixed results. Some better than others. Book getting 5 star reviews BTW
Though they sure would like to
😳
Predatory publishers have been around for many years. Gullible writers abound.
Authors, please educate yourselves before signing any 'deal'. Your brag post might feel great at the time, but paying for publication means you've been conned by a vanity publisher who knows you're desperate for validation. Check out #writerbeware who have an archive of scam publishers.
Thank you for linking to writer beware. A great site.
Nope. Usually that is the amount of a good royalty advance to the author.
I had a nightmarish situation where I was fooled into believing Netflix wanted to make one of my books into a movie…thankfully only mislead until they asked me to open my wallet
Standard advance-fee scam technique: We think you have something that will sell millions, we truly believe it strongly, but we're not willing to put any of our own money as investment, you pay us in advance and just trust what we're willing to say with no skin in the game.
Glad you caught the scam before you were scammed. This "Netflix wants to buy your book" scam has been making the rounds.
Any recommendations for where to approach for a deal? For people completely out of the industry?
Depends on what type of book you’re writing.
At the moment im working on a kidlit idea and a YA novel :) They are just for fun really, ive just been curious how someone would 'break in' so to speak.
2 strategies. Engage with an agent who will rep the book to publishers. Send samples to publishers directly who specialize in those genres. Expect to get a lot of negative feedback or be ignored a lot.
It’s very depressing that so many people in your replies think you don’t know what a vanity publisher is.
At first I thought this was a USA post because it is so wrong, like everything else over here since Trump. If you can, don’t let it happen. The need to promote writing is great, don’t suppress it.
This is then a pure scam or fraud only. Millions of things like this happening every week on the planet.
I’ve worked in publishing for 17+ yrs. Good books won’t get published by trad because the audience isn’t big enough, or the market is saturated in the genre. Self pub is a viable option. Sometimes hybrid (pay to play) might even work. But most hybrid price tags seem like a money grab.
Your point is well taken. That said, unpublished writers are faced by a real conundrum, aren't they? Nobody is interested in publishing their work because they are unpublished. Some then turn to self-publishing, which can be a viable alternative or a con. Let they buyer beware.
Just upload it onto Amazon. They make it very easy and can be done relatively cheaply. They'll even put you in contact with cover and interior designers.
Self-publishing isn't a con, it's a writer having control of their work, their rights & earning the biggest share of the royalties. Sure, there's extra work involved, but once you learn the ropes it's easy. It doesn't cost 10/20K to self pub. Write the book, find an editor, proofer & cover designer
Vanity Publishers do. They’re pretty much a scam.
Does tRump family own the company?
From the mouths of babes 😵💫 i've made 8k in 5 yrs of paid writing inc 3 x book deals with *extremely* reputable small presses. Add in the rest of the advances for 2 that will be paid on publication and it rises to 9k. Lucrative it ain't. But i was hip to that all along, shit as it is.
[8k in 5 yrs of paid writing] US dollars or Euros? Either way, a minimum wage job at a fast food restaurant might pay ten times that. [ Lucrative it ain't.] No kidding!
Welp, I don't know where the money is going because it sure isn't going to the editorial staff either. Nobody ever decided on a career in publishing for the wealth it would bring them (Robert Maxwell, Murdoch et al aside. Oh look, there's the answer to the conundrum right there)
Someone says they want to "be" "a writer" for financial reasons is like everyone who picks up and instrument and plays in a band expecting to sell out Wembley. I speak a lot about it publicly tho cos so many wannabe writers (and readers) have no clue about the finiancial reality for most of us.
Quite similar to stand up comedy. Someone makes people laugh at work. Thinks they are going to be the next George Carlin or Richard Pryor. Starts by paying money to perform at open mic nights (in a bar).
I can honestly say that I have a unique sense of humour. People say this to me. I love to play with norms and perceptions. In my late teens and in my 20s several said I should do comedy. But I know the difference between what I do and on-stage, movie and TV comedy. They are very, very different.
In my final year of academic lecturing I asked my class if I should take up stand up. How hard can it be? Unlike in academia, if you run out of things to say, you can toss an F-bomb. Dramatic pause. Is that allowed here? Shock, horror from class. Until I said: don’t worry, that’s not in the exam.
Lol. I've seen this go down many times. Not that I fault anyone for giving it a shot, in fact people don't realize that it's actually an art form until they give it a try.
Yes, finding a good audience can be tricky. The thing that kills you in the shower may only work if the audience is a shower.
Same discussion in art circles, somehow people believe artists are being paid huge sums of money while at the same time the same people will refuse to pay bare minimum for labour of said art People running in to grab their share of the money even via NSFW & we are like.. what do you mean Money? 😂
[picks up an{d} instrument] Typo?
Last year, there was a discussion over on Ex-Twitter in which several writers were saying 'there's no shame in writing for money' over and over, and I wanted to strangle each and every one of them for acting as if 'writing for the money' was an option openly available to anyone off the street.
I blame dear Joanne Rowling and the press she gets.
When JKR is mentioned to me I like to point out that she had to work real hard for >3 years - AFTER she wrote her first 3 books, just to get LUCKY to find a publisher who reluctantly took her on!
Oh god this. My university writing students thought selling a book = £millions because JKR was the most prominent writer in their young lifetimes. I showed them my spreadsheet of rejections & payments. They were sometimes so confused!
Exactly the same. Endless creative writing students believing that they could make millions. When I convinced them that this was unlikely, they decided that it was because Joanne was a genius.🙄🙄🙄
"cause Joanne is a genius" Ha my god does not sound fun arguing against that 😂 Spends entire time after writing said books showing the world her room temperature thoughts about every subject just so she can gain back relevance 🙃
Brilliant summary!
🤨🤨🤨 Good lord. Oh, well, we did what we could. But we know that writers (all creatives) have to do the work to learn the truth of the work. (OT: Hence, again, why AI is shit!)
I used to teach a creative writing module with the Open University, which made sure students knew the average 'wage' of a published author was under 10K. Students still submitted first drafts and expected to win prestigious competitions like the Bridport prize. Wealth and fame are not givens
First drafts? :O Oh, what sweet summer children! Not even wealth: a living wage isn't even a given. And the damn techbros want to take even that away from us.
I tried to get them to understand that editing involved more than 'cutting bits out until it's within the word count ' but some students really weren't listening
I spent years teaching SpEd students with reading and writing disabilities. Almost all the boys thought they were going to grow up to be professional athletes. Different field, same skewed beliefs about what success looks like and the odds of getting to that point.
Yes, rather amazing – at times you feel mean to take hope away.
I’d always encourage them and reminded them that taking care of business was central to performance at that level. And taking direction without arguing was important, too. Exactly zero of those folks are pro athletes, but a couple of them got athletic scholarships to 2 year colleges.
That's exactly the kind of advice they needed. It's not a surprise that zero went pro, but I'm glad for you (and for them) that a few got scholarships.
Thank you! Some of them have done well for themselves. Quite a few went to the local community college and graduated with credentials for HVAC, millwrights, welders, instrumentation techs, etc. Walked into jobs in the local plants earning about $45k a year to start.
I actually had the H***** P***** chat with someone at work. Couldn't beleve it. Thought it was just an example we use that's as ridiculous as it gets. Was asked why i wasn't living off my royalties, said we don't earn much, and then, well, that [redacted] did prettty well, didn't she?
How i laughed. A laught of the type that easily becomes maniacal if you're not careful.
As realistic as those tone deaf singers who’ve never had voice training and never listened to a recording of themselves, but think they’re the new Caruso or Ariana.
There is an apocryphal story told about Lord Byron, that he had a single copy of the Bible printed to prank his publisher, John Murray. He is said to have changed John 18:40, "For Barabbas was a thief", to read "For Barabbas was a publisher". This is referred to as the publisher's bible.
Is that (or something similar to it) where the tradition about Barabbas being a bookseller comes from, I wonder?
"Fans of the classic TV series Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy will no doubt remember in Episode 1 that George Smiley uses the variation “Barabbas was a bookseller” when he is making a purchase in an antiquarian bookshop before he notices that he is being followed by Peter Guillam…" —telescoper.blog
I actually had that scene in mind. (It was the first I'd heard of that belief.)
😮😮😮😡
Vanity publishers do this.
Vanity "publishers" aren't publishers.
While that may be your opinion, it is not a fact. That's not to say that I endorse it. Professionals deserve to be paid for their work. writersvictoria.org.au/publishing-a...
Publishers make their money selling books to readers. Vanity presses make their money selling publishing to authors. There's a difference.
It's a vanity press, not a true publisher.
Never!
What the actual scam
Yikes
It's so sad that there's loads of information on vanity publishing out there (and also it's never been easier to successfully publish something yourself) but people still get suckered in.
That's because no vanity press actually calls itself a vanity press. Many specifically say they're *not* vanity presses, and use terms like *hybrid* instead. And many target the elderly, who may be less internet-savvy.
Every time a trad pub author says this, ppl argue. Here, from the professional spec fic authors' advocacy organization SFWA, are the differences amongst some types of publishing, how/whether they pay authors & how to decide which type might suit you: www.sfwa.org/other-resour...
"There’s no cost to the author with traditional publishing: publishers undertake the entire financial risk, handling every aspect of publication at their own expense. This investment is recouped from the sale of books to the public, and from the use and licensing of subsidiary rights."
"Traditional publishers are highly incentivized to invest significant resources in marketing and distribution support for the books they publish, in order to drive the sales that are their primary source of profit."
Did have one that wanted me to pay 10% of the printing cost of my first Novel.
I don’t know if the instance you cite is a scam or not, but look up Sweetgrass Books in Helena MT. I’ve read several of their books, such as Edward S. Curtis: Printing the Legends, Where the Wind Never Sleeps, Sweetgrass Dreams, and several of the children’s books as well.
You should check out NASCAR Pay to play it’s here 😖
Certainly No legitimate and or honest publisher would do this. The desire to be published can mute all common sense. The unscrupulous know this.
The key problem: most reputable publishers only work through agents. Agents are overwhelmed with demand and many pitches go unanswered. So you don’t know if your idea is complete trash or just didn’t hit someone in the right mood.
Contrast with academia: most journals either furnish reviews or decide not to go to review for a reason. And academic reviewers mostly are not paid. There had to be a better system.
Exactly. If you can’t find a proper publisher, self-publish. I already made 17c in royalties here: www.lulu.com/spotlight/ph... And I didn’t have to pay someone to set it up.
I wrote a book of poems and it was released last year. I’ve yet to receive any money from the publisher for my book. It’s a racket and a shame too.
Happens a lot in publishing research.
Maybe the hopeful but inexperienced publisher put in a £1m guaranteed royalties clause 😉 Hope someone pointed out the issue to said author 🤞🏻
Clearly!
The scam is really well explained in Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum, iirc.
In my communications classes, in my history of media class, I learned that book publishers absolutely make most authors pay them to publish a boom if the publisher doesn't think the book will sale.
Publishing runs on selling books. If a publisher doesn't think a book will sell, they won't publish it. However, vanity presses run on selling services to authors. They'll publish anything if they're paid to. But they won't sell any copies, and bookshops won't stock what they print.
Vanity presses are still publishers. I can publish my own book and be considered a publisher. So your statement that publishers don't make pay to publish is misleading is all I'm saying.
You are splitting hairs here. There is an important and very pertinent difference between vanity presses and real publishers. The whole distribution step(and getting into libraries). In facts real publishers are not just printers, they are a whole value chain.
an author can pay a vanity press for all of those services. right or wrong, they’re still publishers. they do the same thing a “real publisher” does but you pay them instead them paying you. again right or wrong, vanity presses still publish the book. it still gets printed. it still gets released.
And the point of the post is, that that isn’t really a publisher as such. And should not be categorized with “real” publishers. I am not saying vanity publishers do not have their uses. Being paid for your work as an author, that is a real thing.
All the publishers I've dealt with wanted me to pay them. Granted I was trying to get a book of poems published. So I may be a different circumstance.
Unfortunately i have heard of many photographers, even established ones, who pay £10-20k to have a photobook published by well known publishers. 😱
Unless it's an academic publisher of a journal.
The market for reaming potential authors is a rich, varied and ever-expanding one.
Screenshot this. Thank you for this information.
I'll do it for £10,000 – what a deal! 😃
Ahh yes, the vanity press lives.
I’ve been telling my friend this until I’m blue in the face. As hard as it is, a publisher should believe your book will sell and pay YOU.
Isn’t this called “vanity publishing”?
I thought everyone already understood this aspect. Apparently not.
Back in the old days people did get advances to write books, but they were almost 100% previously published authors.
Publisher offered $250,000 but with fees $210,000 pays for advertisements, publishing costs. Not included travel to numerous locations assigned writer appearances. Writer per contractual agreement must appear at all locations on schedule for contract period. $40,000 covers supposedly those costs.
That is insane. "Fees"???
My fees are not typical for most. Royalties paid me are book sales earn me $1 per book sold. That is all I earn. Per book. My veteran VA disability rating earns me around $4k in disability monthly 100% service connected. My military retirement never been paid since retirement 1994.
My US Treasury Department IRS retirement SBSE division will provide something just not allowed to know what yet. Not until 21 April 2027. Basis after retirement will determine and remove taxation automatically from my retirements. 100% disabled veterans income normally are never taxable per law.
I believe in fair taxation. Based upon my monthly income from dividends currently at $252 billion annually from USBA holdings not including other unpaid holdings globally. Either I pay deficit or I fund public grants. I cannot do everything for everyone. Will try figure out solution for largest need
Offer made to me by publisher. Never accepted. Nor would I. Published my book 2018 Songs of Frost. 7 Series in volume. Could only afford publish cheapest volume 6th in series Took 15 years of research, restoration of family history, found journal dedicated translated from 13 languages written within
Doesn't make any sense to pay someone to publish when you can do it yourself, for almost no money, on Amazon.
Amazon initially offered to charge me $560 after I was published 1st time. Price is better than 1st time $3,500 still not broke even. Sell about 56 books a year. Amazon told me I was best seller. Laughed. Amazon offers a lot of things. My book is on Amazon. They promote if they make money off me.
$19.99 book Amazon makes $12.76 per book I get $1 Publisher gets rest. I get $1 Stopped doing promotions. Not worth expense. Self published I get $1 standard rate. Everyone else makes money. Not me. Never made $. Everyone else makes $. Amazon asked me to pay advertisement. 👎
University of Norway Thanked me for my research and support toward ethical research requirements based upon. Matriculation basis from 1850’s Professor Andres Munch journals he taught Royal Family ethical based economics for global advancement of humanity. Taught ethical, moral & scientific principle
Upon publishing sent my book to Queen Elizabeth library in UK and librarian stated ‘Sir, you are 1st person in 150+ years to inform the library of a book we do not own.’ Informed them of 3 books not in collection. My great grandfathers library before it was Queen Elizabeth’s.
King Edward was my great grandfather. Philip Edward Jehle Aleksandrovich Romanov Was king of Finland, Ukraine, Israel why he funded land purchases to rebuild Israel. Acquisition of lands was global. His estate transferred to his eldest daughter who was Queen Ellen, Viola Ellen Jehle Aleksandrovich.
She for unknown reason put the family curse on me. I told her did not want her money. Instead put everything into my CPN under management of my Trust Michael D Collins CPN 541-98-0575 Assigned me 1973, previously put into my name 1968. She never told anyone about her actions. Not even me.
My retirement date from federal Service April 21, 2027 earliest allowed retirement date from my service. Allowed access distributions from 58.5 years of unpaid dividends & share volume holdings only in my name. Managed by reserve, DFAS, DOD, USNavy, SWIFT, USBA, Bancorp, Wells Fargo.
Due rich not paying tax I will divert my dividends upon deficit until corrected. Fair Tax not paid result in all public grants I was funding not getting public grant funding until rich begin paying appropriate tax. Failure comply result in violation non compliance loose bank access into my banks
I choose how my dividends are utilized Government debt payments must be paid Debt owed me requires my continued funding of basic minimum deficiency Holding not currency Holding shares only 143 digit volume I hold no currency — just shares Volume basis 1956 volume No updated share volume since 1956.
Break even is not getting paid.
I have been offered a deal to work from home doing IT for $200 to $300 an hour. I would feel more comfortable about it if I actually knew anything about IT.
😂😂😂The slime is really oozing out now!!😡
Trump Publications would.
No “legitimate” publisher.
More proof that people shouldn't believe all that they are told.
Im at a total loss for words on this! Deplorable
I just heard a story on NPR about this. A lot of the scam publishers seem to be based in the Philippines for some reason.
One publisher(?) offered me the Golden plan for $60,000
My friend Mark Corrigan did with British London when paper costs in Denmark went through the roof because of the Euro. It’s a shame, because “Business Secrets of the Pharoahs” was a hell of a book.
