if i quit my job, the space doesn’t…go away? it doesn’t punish the NYT? and i have to imagine that the calls to quit my job won’t end if i go to some other, equally compromised publication. so no, i have a large, influential platform and i will continue to try to use it as responsibly as i can
Unlike Twitter, which is just screaming into the algorithmic void, you getting published in the NYT is very valuable to people getting some excellent information and perspective.
At some point in the near future respectable people working at the nytimes might be giving cover to a publication that is no longer worthy of it.
People *would* have to decide to leave en masse for it to be effective
It is currently no longer worthy.
Yea but he’s also right. If he were to leave the nytimes and, say, they replaced him with a Maureen Dowd-type, readership would likely stay the same, but they would no longer be challenged on issues that I think are vital.
He could start a substack, maybe feel less conflicted, but reach a fraction of the audience preaching to the already converted.
Substack has issues as well. (IIRC Nazi's. money talks, capitalism, etc.)
Oh, I'm not saying he should quit. I mean, he should but then he doesn't have the voice he has. I'm just saying that the NYT isn't worthy of his work and/or reputation. But capitalism makes many of us compromise. 🤷🏾♂️
Yea. *sadness*
Yeah! You know, for how much certain people love shitting all over the idea of creating change from the inside of a broken, corrupt system. Sometimes that really is just the best you can do (or at least ATTEMPT to do) and I say more fucking power to you for trying to inject some
actually good, real reporting. Into a publication that otherwise has been all too happy to run defense for the MAGA Garbage and their fascist goals.
I guess that's how the guys who work for ICE feel, right? If I quit then they'll just hire someone else - meanwhile they machine keeps going. How can it stop if no one ever stands up.
Exactly. Absolutely do not quit!
Like most center-left people I extremely down on the upper management at NYT and it's pretty obvious to me that you don't care for their bullshit either. I personally like when people use their privilege to piss inside the tent when necessary.
When has he actually done that though
Every single time he writes? He's Jamelle Bouie not Nate Silver.
And every time he does he gives cover for when NYT publishes fascist shit. Also call me when he takes a direct shot at the paper and not vaguely gestured toward it
He literally did it multiple times tonight alone? They made him delete them!
And…he did what he was told.
*gestures broadly* as you can see you can do more damage in the system than out. www.youtube.com/watch?v=YefQ...
Let me guess. You didn’t vote for Harris because sHe wOuLd hAvE bEeN wOrSe tHaN tRuMp.
correct on cover. NYT deliberately publishes a handful of progressive voices so that they can claim neutrality and keep sane washing Trump fascism. writing for the NYT is self-defeating. it drives revenue and supports them more than whatever imagined effect his views have on its readers.
Most people don't subscribe to newspapers just for one op/ed columnist.
good thing nobody here claimed that they do
Nice goalpost slide
give you credit for saying "equally compromised."
Jamelle, you're a good man.
I hope some day there will be a way for you and others to reach a similar audience without taking money from this or any other equally compromised publication. We all deserve that.
Stay right here with us, where you belong, where those who matter really appreciate you.
You’re the best they got. Don’t listen to the fucking jagoffs who haven’t written a thing.
Good!
You just need to start a newsletter.
But not on Substack! If you do that you're three times as bad as working for the Times
Fair point
Thank you.
Have they ever/would they now publish you directly critiquing them? Not arguing you should quit! Just actually wondering
hang in there jamelle
The only fair basis for judging your work is your work, which is stellar. Purity politics is bullshit.
Yeah, I don’t get the influx of career advice. You’re a smart, ethical dude with better visibility of the situation than the rest of us, and I’m sure you aren’t chained to the NYT. If you want or think you should go elsewhere, you’re capable. My limited information cannot be as good as yours.
That's right. You are so appreciated. Deeply.
Thank you.
Bouie is easily one of the best columnists at the Times, and perhaps in the whole country.
But the NYT is a company that is (and has been) completely on board with authoritarianism for a while. Being the best at a influential, but morally corrupt company is a tough pill to swallow.
I think the only way quitting works is if a bunch of y’all do it en masse, and also if subscribers care, neither of which seems likely. But it’d be nice if half the staff quit together and left a barebones paper.
It’s the employee’s job to make a workplace better and the consumer’s job to determine if they did that. I hope @jamellebouie.net stays, and I hope he succeeds.
I agree with you completely. Your voice is so valuable on that platform, despite its flaws.
Please do. You are the only NYT opinion writer meeting the moment.
You're a big reason why I still subscribe
And that’s precisely why he should resign
I subscribe to NYT, Wapo, and Boston Globe mainly because the 4th estate is the only area of society holding the administration (somewhat) to account. I'd rather fund imperfect journalism than have no journalism.
As long as you're willing to keep calling them out for sucking, which you seem to do with some regularity, then, we're cool.
Thank you for your work
Don’t quit, but do push back on the fascist encroachment. Unfortunately, NYT is widely read—we need brave voices there.
The conservative establishment provided* you a greater reach, and I applaud your using it. * Hard to find the right verb. They deigned to hire a magnificent columnist who doesn't forward their goals.
Why would voluntarily anyone cede the initiative and ground in exchange for nothing? It may be difficult for sane people to get legacy media platforms in the years to come. The future can’t afford to give the opportunities away in misguided displays of piousness
will have more impact once NYT axes Jamelle for being too righteous.
Correct. Make them fire you for being too righteous, Jamelle. #NYT
Maybe consider writing a piece on CapTheCap? It would be very timely. www.capthecap.com
I hate purity tests. I also hate bullies who say people should quit their jobs and yet those same bullies give zero thought to insignificant details like mortgages and the need to buy food.
Thank you! 🙏
Yup
Thank you.
You are not the problem and fuck people complaining to you.
Well Said, Sir. I’ll never stop either.
I feel like losing your voice would hurt the NYT, immeasurably. And I also believe that you should in fact leave the publication. But that is for no one else to decide but you. If you truly feel you are doing more good there than anywhere else then of course you have a responsibility to stay.
Please stay and continue to do that. Geez. All the NYT needs to suck a tiny bit more is you leaving!
if you aren’t advocating for free speech then why would you work for the NYT in the first place…
Could you get that guy to quit instead?
Your voice is needed.
Who said quit? Make them fire you for their stupid, racist, unequally applied, self serving bullshit. Then hire a lawyer, sue for wrongful termination and in the mean time start a subscription newsletter.
I very much hope to continue to see you here. Your voice is important, and welcomed.
I mean, it's more like "why do you still work with these fucking racist crackers?" Also, I dunno... you have other options my dude... Krugman seems to be doing ok on substack.
i have bad news about the state of Nazis on substack
Thank you for your work Jamelle! You are one of the absolute best at what you do and it's so important for the rest of us. (plus I love the movie podcast...)
Exactly. Thank you. We need columnists to educate and inform us so we can make the world better. But this rage at the NYT is based on an old belief that reading a column is like taking action. Sadly, it’s not.
Yeah, I understand fully. Resigning would be a win for the segregationist and the slavers.
Reminds me of Hannah Arendt’s 1964 essay Personal Responsibility Under Dictatorship, which everyone should read.
I figure every dollar you get is a dollar that isn't going to some doofus currently preparing a story on how Mamdani never saw his mother's films when they were first released in theatres...
Stay there and keep writing. Your voice is important to me and a ton of other people.
Waiting patiently for everyone who works for a soulless, problematic employer to quit their jobs so we can reach 92% unemployment.
Thank you, Mr. Bouie, for your eloquence and insight. And for keeping that platform.
Good point! I've never felt like you're bullshitting me so....Keep doin it!
Just as long as you know the NYT sucks. Like really, really sucks.
Dunno man, you're a lone voice of reason at that rag. Is your work doing more for them or for the world?
You make a good point.
Anyhooo. The media story of the moment is nytimes whitewashing Nazi shit to attack a brown man
It’s a hard line to walk, and I appreciate you and respect your decision.
U right but this sucks
Please don’t quit! We need your voice more than ever!
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!!
Stay where you are, keep taking their money and doing good.
How about now that they’re censoring your social media?
The only moral thing to do is to destroy yourself on some vague moral principal that I, a person with a fraction of your accomplishments, vibed off a TV show. Only a high-minded refusal to engage with a flawed--yet influential--system can change that system. Once we have nothing, we will be pure.
Thanks for staying to write the terrific stuff you do.
sounding like a beloved member of congress
Kinda seems like your best option. Your work matters.
Bless you 🙏
GOOD!
well said!
❤️👊
Thank God.
I wonder if these people anticipate the average reader following you to whatever niche liberal publication is good enough for them. Because I think the number of readers of the NYT will stay exactly the same, they'll just be reading even *more* unbalanced right-wing propaganda.
A question that has been asked for ages. No clear answer. I agree with Jamelle’s decision for I know where I can find him. If he leaves, it could be hard to find him; & every site like Substack has their paywall. And NYT has a great recipe app. Fits my budget.
But but but think of the empty performative symbolism Jamelle!
Classism plays in this choice
quit the f……. Job. Even if it doesn’t punish NYT you could still have dignity to quit and not work for them. If your working for them that gives them the green light. If you believe in what you say than live in your truth and not under the masses.
This response is the one that confirms there is no hope or even beginning of change 😩 It’s finally time for us to realize it. Thanks for your honesty the most powerful will always win. If you can’t fight it we definitely can’t win it our selves.
Surrendering any and every institution to the fascists to satisfy for your desire for purity is not "fighting"
who said surrender
I can't "surrender" a private corporation I don't control, and neither can Bouie.
Who said surrender
It will show the world that change can happen and that they can’t rule us any longer by money and their power.
Staying there also sets off an example to your followers that obeying and listen to the masses is the right thing today.
....to the extent that they allow you. Seems like "hey, you weren't supposed to doxx that eugenicist hacker who was the source for our idiotic Mamdani hit piece" is an undue constraint on basic journalism and due diligence. You do what you have to do. But the NYT has made their intentions clear.
Thank you 🙏🏻
Good!
please keep doing it man here or there
You are not the one that needs to quit.
Have the hired another progressive to replace Paul Krugman? No. They’ll just hire a centrist to replace you but call them liberal
You get that voice out to the world however you can, mon vieux. You can count on me & so many more to amplify!
Okay, but there you go, they've just limited your platform. I don't read NYT anymore but can't see what you wrote because of NYT. That's depressing.
Thank you for all you do.
Thank you.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I appreciate your work, and you wouldn't have to go to an "equally compromised publication" if you left the NYT. I understood your justification for staying right up until they platformed a racist to attack Zohran Mamdani and prohibited you from pointing it out. Dealbreaker. I wish you the best.
Please continue to ask forgiveness rather than permission. Thank you.
Fair.
Ding ding ding
Fair. I admire Krugman for telling the Times to go fuck themselves (if that’s what happened) but I imagine a Nobel Prize worth of fuck you money makes it easier to tell your employer to go fuck themselves.
I think this is fair. I also think it's fair for people to cancel their subscriptions.
Bless you and your voice.
Good!
Personally I am trying to get hired by NYT Opinion because I think your employer would benefit from running my takes more than once a year
Does this post count as a cover letter?
Can I also just add that everyone doing another round of purity test nonsense around here would be so fucking ridiculous right now.
How many people here whose employers' would pass BSky randos strict purity tests? 🤔
Take that money.
It's your choice. I would argue it's not about "punishing" the Times. It's about principles. Maybe you are doing more behind the scenes to speak out. If so, good. But if the Times staff did this once they are likely going to again. Ask where the line is for you personally. Don't cross it.
As long as you can stand the overlords at NYT, I say keep firing away (as if anything I say means diddly to you 😀). There must be some vicarious thrill in knowing that you are just going to give the editors at NYT a fit when you speak truth to power. So keep at til they won't have you!
Good. These online purity trolls do nothing, effect nothing, and want to police everything. Keep doing awesome work at the Times even as the rest of that paper loses their fucking minds.
stay where you are (if you want to)...you are doing a much needed job a clear voice
Good on you 👍🏽 Some numbskull referred to you as a “collaborator” earlier today and it just blows my mind how callously myopic and cartoonishly toxic some people can be once self-righteousness has colonized their egos.
Fuck yeah, Jamelle. Your voice is needed.
Thank you. I think not participating/leaving makes a lot of sense in specific cases, but it's a mistake when leaving would just mean someone worse pushes worse choices
Don't feed the trolls, Jamelle.
I think the calls to quit are wild. I guess I understand that the NYT publishes some true garbage but without that platform I’m not certain I would have encountered much of the fantastic work Jamelle is doing. Yall need to chill
it's a corrupt institution and you're a part of it you shouldn't want to be part of a corrupt institution
there's a case to be made that you work for fascists if I knew I worked for fascists, I would quit
hell yeah. do not cede the power (or platform) that you have!!! idk why people think this is The Thing To Do now.
It is good resistance work.
I understand your reasoning; just know that people like me find your writing extremely compelling, but only encounter it elsewhere. I literally didn’t know you wrote for the NYT & would never have found out. There are many of us.
I canceled my Times subscription when Krugmen left. I was sad about you and Margaret Renkl. To the extent the Times allows you to, I would love to see your column gifted more frequently on bluesky....
No, we demand you adhere strictly to our moral code... wait, it's only my moral code now, since Bobby decided he's no longer a vegan and Michelle won't quit her job with a city government still mistreating the homeless... Dammit! Now I'm done, because I didn't say unhoused.
Your writing is a big draw for me. I always learn something new, and I admire your reasoning with evidence provided.
Anyway, the one thing NYT readers need to learn most is something NYT will never publish: "do not read this paper; it is compromised and reading it will not make you well-informed. it is a mouthpiece for fascism and giving it air or money is self-defeating."
from my pov, NYT is siphoning your influence at this point
Well said
Hey I saw your other post you deleted too plus the comments you get on TT, and just want to let you know that you mean a lot to me and I really really appreciate you and your takes. I don't think anyone should police you and you do an amazing job in the worst times. A bright light of truth
Oh, and if you DID quit, I can promise you those same people calling for you to resign would pivot immediately to, "Why did he just walk away? Why didn't he fight? Why not make the Times fire him?"
Gotta love the keyboard warriors so desperate for you to fight their battles for them. Oh wait. No, we don't.
Amen! Please do.
Where is the line, though? When does a platform become so compromised that your participation only serves to facilitate the broader rot taking place?
just wish he would start calling out the names. When Stephens and Douthat and Brooks spout their shit, Jamelle should call them out by name. If NYT policy restricts that, tell us about it.
NYT policy does in fact restrict that, it came up when he was on The Press Box podcast in April.
Cue the "good" Republicans who secretly tell Democratic colleagues they don't like the situation but publicly go along with it. Everyone does have to draw their own lines, the NYT still does have some prestige, but it's a fair question to ask at what point are the exceptions used to keep the rule
would those be the sweaty republicans on the stationary bikes next to Chuckie Schumer?
More relevant to the media space it's like how Fox News kept around Chris Wallace and Shepard Smith for so long until they decided they didn't have to keep up the pretense anymore
I don't have a position on whether he should quit, but this is an important question and I hope he has thought about it.
Follow your conscience obviously. I do think if I was you I’d be having some serious conversations w my family right about now.
Large orgs aren’t monoliths. The Times is more than just a Nazi propaganda outfit. But it remains that at least part of the Times sees its purpose as such.
You have to ask yourself how clear your conscience is if by your presence you continue to lend that part of the organization credibility.
and we will continue to listen. I can no longer ethically subscribe but I find ways to read your writing.
I hear you though I do think you deserve MUCH better.
The Nazis went to LOTS of platforms that hate them and published tirelessly… and here we are. They mostly didn’t quit and mostly didn’t concede.
This calls to me an axiom from the 20th c pragmatist philosopher, Midler: “Fuck ‘em if they can’t take a joke.”
🍻
Thanks for this
and that person is a brit.
A thread that begs for curation.
Funny way to spell deletion.
Or blocking, yeah, I know. Trying to increase my word power by varying what I use. *wan grin*
Sometimes I wish the block wasn't quite so nuclear in the way it breaks threads and prunes away whole branches. I suppose I could use mute, but some people just make me want to go full no contact.
I say "block" so often, I wouldn't be surprised if people were to think it was the only tool in my arsenal. Curation can also include judicious muting, and something like Skythread can get you info if you really feel the need for details. I appreciate the apoca-block b/c it stops pile-ons dead.
Curation is a great word. The actual act that brings value to a pile of stuff and makes it a collection.
What is, "apoca-block"? I tried looking it up, but got 0 results.
Oh, it's a neologism, don't know who coined it but I learned it from another account here. It uses the descriptor "apocalyptic" to describe the global effect of the block here on Bluesky.
You do what you want. I'm grateful for every journalist with integrity no matter who pays their salary.
You’re one of the few I trust. Don’t quit.
You're one of the main reasons I've kept my subscription.
People are very brave about other people being unemployed.
bsky.app/profile/thra...
Please do !
Worse, it probably goes to some douche-nozzle similar to Bret Stephens.
I think your voice is incredibly valuable at the NYTimes and I’m glad you have this platform. But just pointing out that “if I quit my job, the space doesn’t… go away?” is absolutely terrible reasoning. You can apply that to anyone working anywhere evil
So much hand-wringing over one man’s choice of employment.
A newspaper opinion section doesn't function like a political administration. He is literally referring to space on a sheet where better ideas are being published and read. That space would have an on average a Trump enabling take. An administration requires doing Trump's work, not give your opinion
If I quit my job in the Trump admin the space doesn’t just go away and it doesn’t hurt Trump; if I don’t build the bombs they’ll still get built; if I’m not the one crossing picket lines, someone will etc. etc.
You got to realize though how hard it is to get paid for writing idepndently right now and using your voice!
Plus "If I quit my job in the Trump admin and go work for someone equally bad, people won't stop complaining" Yeah well maybe don't go work for someone equally bad then?
Building bombs and writing a column are two very different things.
You spiraled off into a false equivalency devoid of nuance or true critical thinking on this very specific issue. Also, no factoring in that he contributes to the OPINION columns. Take a breather and read what was said now what you think you was said.
I want as many people to hear what you have to say as possible. You have a wonderful position for that
Ok but maybe bully Douthat or Stephens into quitting?
Moral questions such as these leave me lost in the woods, but I know it's still the paper of record and I'm glad your voice is there. Like your recent piece about how ICE hurts citizens - these are the kind of ideas we need out there to be absorbed into mainstream consciousness and discourse.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
If you were with WaPo, would you quit?
For real, I was going to go to whatever non-Twitter site you ended up at. You’re an essential follow and I’m glad you’re holding your ground. I’m very sorry for how your evening has gone in so many ways.
Stay and fight.
thank you.
Is there zero internal processes to ask "hi mr. manager, im concerned about something could you walk me through the process that led here"? Hell go out to lunch w em!
i think you're right, but don't you ever worry that you are used as an example to be held up to justify the other explicitly and undeniably evil shit they traffic in?
Just came here to say I really appreciate your work and presence here on Bluesky.
good for you dude. they don’t deserve you i’m glad you have a good platform
Thank you.
Only quit your job if you challenge Mark Warmer in a Senate primary.
What, then, would be a way TO punish the Times? I’m asking earnestly. You can’t write on how racist and bigoted the place is. Do you continue as if this debacle never occurred? I no longer read the Times as it is.
i am sure you know..."you can please all the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but not all the people all the time"
I agree. In addition though, I’d be curious to know to what extent you think or worry that the NYT uses your credibility to launder its increasingly irresponsible (malign, even?) behavior? It’s sort of a race thing but sort of not — the question could equally be posed to Ezra Klein I think?
Ezra is gone. I don't think he is saveable at this point.
please do as you have done. your integrity shines.
As far as I'm concerned and as compromised as the awards are now, I believe Jamelle is (or deserves to be) the front runner for the next Pulitzer for commentary, and I appreciate his commitment to use his platform for good.
I don’t think ppl understand the concept of fighting the system from the inside. Like yeah great, you’ve quit… there’s no platform, let them fire you for pushing back, and make you a “martyr” to standing up to them.
Please don't quit your job. Thanks for being the best columnist in the NYT.
Solid reasoning, but: I do think it'd hurt them a bit. You're one of the best writers out there about this moment from what I see
Don’t quit!!!!!!!
Having integrity is important.
I'm so sorry you've gotten dragged into this mess.
Keep doing what you do and ignore this nonsense. We need your voice.
I am just some random person who is really appreciative of all you do. And this random person is just really sorry that you are going through this.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.
Personally my ideal outcome is for their reputation to become so debased that it’s not valuable for you to remain, and I probably won’t complain about it until that happens
Absolutely correct
Go with your conscience.
Please don’t.
It’s a very Flaming Moe’s response These people always figure “you can easily translate your followers here into riches” and it’s … not that easy?
I don’t blame you. And I don’t really support the resignation thing anyway. If they’re going to fire you, let them, but why should *you* walk away when you can continue to use your platform? 🙏🏼
My NYT favorite columnist since Paul Krugman left.
except inasmuch as you're lending credibility to a right-wing rag
people should cancel their times subscriptions and not give the paper clicks.
🫡🫡🫡
@jamellebouie.net - just my single opinion here (obvs) but I support your work. I can’t stand NYT, canceled my subscription a few years back after enjoying it for a long time. I get what you’re doing. We all have our parts. Just wanted to share some solidarity.