Honestly I find people morally pearl-clutching about how this reflects some unique evil of the Israeli mind almost eye-rolling, because America not only said that they explicitly DID it after 9/11.
Replies
And how did that go?
aug 16, 2025, 8:26 pm • 2 0 • view
I mean it isn't exactly unfair to get mad at Israeli society for not saying "Enough is enough. I refuse to participate in this." It's the same with Japan, Germany, or Italy. Yes some refused to be complicit but far too many were either ok with it or simply stayed quiet and looked away.
aug 17, 2025, 2:52 am • 0 0 • view
At least shaming them might convince some who were too afraid to say no that they shouldn't be ok with this and get mad. Peer pressure can be broken with someone is there to show others then can simply refuse to be complicit and say "Fuck you!" to others who try and tell them to be ok with it.
aug 17, 2025, 2:52 am • 0 0 • view
I don't necessarily think people saying all Russians are responsible for what is happening in Ukraine but you have to make people understand they shouldn't be quiet in the face of injustice. 9/11 was not something celebrated and done with large scale support. Genocide on the other hand is.
aug 17, 2025, 2:52 am • 0 0 • view
Yes not every Israeli is evil or a bad person but a lot of Israeli society is simply being quiet, making excuses, or screaming for more blood. You need to treat people like adults and let them understand they are responsible for what they do and say right now.
aug 17, 2025, 2:52 am • 1 0 • view
A bunch of Germans were fine with the Holocaust until others asked them why the fuck they would do that. Sometimes you need to yell at someone to get something across.
aug 17, 2025, 2:55 am • 1 0 • view
oh fuck off
aug 16, 2025, 8:11 pm • 70 1 • view
I don't know what to say, man, I just see people (not you) constantly and in some cases increasingly transparently just working themselves into a frenzy where they increasingly obviously want to Just See The Wicked Israelis All Die, and I just kind of sigh at what seems like a very normal human evil
aug 16, 2025, 8:13 pm • 18 1 • view
We had voices like this asshole in America saying we should glass the Middle East. it absolutely needs to be grappled with! but it doesn't to me reflect some innate vileness of a particular national character so much as a moral failure that is all too common?
aug 16, 2025, 8:14 pm • 14 1 • view
Notably, tu quoque defenses were not permissible at Nuremberg
aug 16, 2025, 8:58 pm • 0 0 • view
Bro I don't need your paratext digressions of wellackshually & whatbout any time I have the temerity to criticize Israel
aug 16, 2025, 8:17 pm • 44 1 • view
Bro, I have *shared* many of your criticisms of Israel in the past, you know this.
aug 16, 2025, 8:20 pm • 6 0 • view
The only thing I am disagreeing with you about is that this represents some uniquely vile character of the Israeli populace.
aug 16, 2025, 8:24 pm • 8 0 • view
I don't think he's saying they're uniquely vile, just the normal amount of vile for people whose government is telling them that they need to do a genocide.
aug 16, 2025, 10:28 pm • 2 0 • view
zionism is uniquely vile so a state that's entire reason for being is centred around zionism will create a population of uniquely vile people. Penitant just happens to be a "left wing zionist" so he can't handle people talking so frankly about what israel is.
aug 16, 2025, 11:33 pm • 1 0 • view
why is Zionism any more vile than other ethnonationalisms?
aug 17, 2025, 12:09 am • 1 0 • view
unless you're one of those "all forms of nationalism are bad no matter what" types then I think you should sort of see where I'm coming from.
aug 17, 2025, 12:14 am • 0 0 • view
the responses given to this survey by Israelis during peacetime are worse than the responses given to the same survey group during the Rwandan genocide.
aug 16, 2025, 8:55 pm • 44 2 • view
Can you please direct me to the source, so I can read up on it?
aug 16, 2025, 8:56 pm • 4 0 • view
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC...
aug 16, 2025, 9:19 pm • 16 0 • view
Thank you. I'll do some reading. I do feel like I should point out that - along other factors - it seems like a very difficult thing to poll Rwandans in the middle of the Rwandan genocide, so I'm not sure how good the analogy is.
aug 16, 2025, 9:20 pm • 4 0 • view
Alright, so, having taken a casual look - with the corollary that I am REALLY BAD at understanding this sort of statistical analysis - it seems notable that this survey points out that BOTH Israelis and Palestinians are EXTREMELY prone to horrendous levels of dehumanization of the other. (cont)
aug 16, 2025, 9:28 pm • 11 4 • view
It also points out the limitations of its own survey in that the participants are not probability samples and cannot readily be applied to the entire population. So - undeniably horrible, to be clear, and representing a real & profound problem, but I'm cautious about applying it TOO broadly?
aug 16, 2025, 9:30 pm • 10 4 • view
You claimed this was during peacetime. It was not. It was during the 2014 war. They also, while not asking the same "civilian casualties to save a soldier" question of Palestinian respondents, found generally similar levels of dehumanization, so 😬 Do you have a link to the Rwanda comparison?
aug 16, 2025, 9:59 pm • 3 0 • view
No one in this circle wants Israeli noncombatants to die. We want them to stop using our tax dollars and weapons on a campaign of decimation to secure some imaginary future for their ethnostate. We want a peaceful state with equal rights for all its inhabitants, not genocide and apartheid.
aug 16, 2025, 9:06 pm • 7 0 • view
what israeli "noncombatants"? They're all army or reserve army.
aug 16, 2025, 11:33 pm • 1 0 • view
Children, elderly, infirm, ineligible. Non-activated reservists or veterans who are not under arms are not combatants under the Geneva Conventions and are not legitimate military targets.
aug 16, 2025, 11:54 pm • 1 0 • view
Does israel respect the geneva convention?
aug 16, 2025, 11:58 pm • 1 0 • view
Obviously not. Thus my entire argument above. You are attempting to walk me into a rhetorical corner than I have no intention of occupying. They are committing a genocide and we should cut them off and sanction them. I will never condone the intentional targeting of noncombatants, though.
aug 17, 2025, 12:00 am • 1 0 • view
I'm not trying to walk you into anything. I'm just saying that the militarization and fanatical nature of their society is such that it's hard to have empathy for any of them of a certain age. Like barring the fact that israel is lying about stuff like NOVA, still, those were all off duty IDF
aug 17, 2025, 12:02 am • 0 0 • view
and in a total war situation would be "fair game" anyways. I just don't like when some people expect Palestinians to be "doomed moral victors" is all. At this point that's meaningless.
aug 17, 2025, 12:03 am • 0 0 • view
I don’t know why you’re going out of your way to make this distinction. The guy I replied to was saying “waaah all you guys want is for all the jews to die” and I’m simply saying that’s not true. I want them to stop committing a genocide with my money, and become a peaceful multiethnic society.
aug 17, 2025, 12:06 am • 1 0 • view
We want The Thing That Is Currently Happening to stop, and this poll is very obvious proof of the level of coercion that will be required to stop it. It is a repudiation of the idea that limited sanctions on a few key extremist settlers will cut it in 2025. Or just stopping delivery on 2000lb bombs.
aug 16, 2025, 9:08 pm • 7 0 • view
People keep saying we bombed Belgrade for less, and this poll and the surrounding facts demonstrate that the level of genocidal ideation circulating in the population of Israel right now appears to be many times that of Serbia in the 90s. Or the US in 2001, to tie it back to your absurd comparison.
aug 16, 2025, 9:10 pm • 9 0 • view