Limbaugh. Syndicated in 88.

And "crossing the streams" from another thread, this was definitely a thing. bsky.app/profile/fogh...

Two words: Ronald Reagan He routinely got on TV and told us government was our enemy. He said his quote about what are the most frightening words in the English language "We're from the government and we're here to help". All the white boomers got richer and the Xers were all leaded in the 80s.

Ok. But Reagan was there when the original revival of government trust happened after Vietnam / Watergate. Presumably that was mostly because of Volcker and the Fed. Is the argument that this was overwhelming to start and Dems were still in charge of Congress and so Reagan had less effect.

And maybe that he was talking about that less in term 1 than in term 2? And he had more effect later in his term? Or because something in society was starting to change then? Or that GOP was more in ascendancy? (It wasn’t really until later - but maybe the southern switch was happening).

I’d sort of buy the argument that I’m saying here. Although I’d like to what more. But also I think it needs this greatest context. So I’d be interested to hear it.

Oh. In his 2nd term he routinely said "I have a mandate". Thats why he nominated Bork, he thought he was untouchable then. Like most 2nd terms he became obsessed with legacy. He was going to end communism if it took every penny his grandkids ever had.

But then you have Bush who really wasn’t trying to tear down the government.

He got distracted by Gulf War I so I dont know what he'd have done if Saddam didn't decide the Kuwaiti Gulf ports were worth taking. Reagan desperately wanted to end the Department of Education. No recall on where Bush was on that before Saddam misbehaved.

Where Bush was with Bill Kristol focused on it, who absolutely wanted to end it. But Bush’s pro-government bonafides went way way beyond the military. He just wasn’t a Reagan-type guy. At all.

I just look at it as a guy who was there versus people who weren't and what they know of it now. Rs still have to bow to Reagan, while Ds think Tip O'Neill was a bus driver in the 5th HP novel. One side identifies their voters' enemy and the other maintains the beaurucracy. Wonder which is cooler.

I was mostly there too. Maybe it was the general rise in the right wing money to fund anti-science, Gingrich, pro-oil etc etc stuff that was slowly feeding into the system. But the drop is pretty rapid.

This, pretty much. 1980s is when the GOP general line changed from "We are the sensible-money people who are slightly less racist than the Southern Dems" to "Government Sucks! Vote for us, and we'll Prove it!"

The HW Bush recession

But 83-84 Volker recession was worse.

Jesus, Vietnam was a fucking *Disaster*

It was also crime, white flight, nuclear, counter-culture, falling of old norms; And this is speculation since we don’t have the serial here; but I suspect racist whites came at it from the other side and saw govt involvement in civil rights and military in Little Rock, etc as a betrayal.

88% white in 1960 with 80% approval, so civil rights is not a bad bet. Pathetic.

And apparently the Clinton administration was putting in the work?

Well it’s very remarkable. Because this is expressly during a time when the Gingrich-GOP revolution was happening. They were explicitly and aggressively attacking government on every side. And yet in some sense it was failing spectacularly.

I was going to say the economy and dot com boom had something to do with it, but the chart looks fairly detached from economic numbers overall from some quick comparisons

Yeah. There could be major methodological problems too.

Maybe a brief optimistic H.W. spike in 1988, followed by reality (drop), with optimism returning with Clinton in 1992?

Iran Contra Affair...? Looks like it started right around then. Another (probably stronger) theory is that this graph would track when cable news (esp. CNN) really got a foothold with the American public

National syndication of Rush Limbaugh in 88?

lol This might be close to it.

I was going to say conservative talk radio in general but yeah. I think late 80's is when it really took iff

The emergence of conservative talk radio. The late 80s marked the first time where a large percentage of men listened to someone who sounded authoritative reflexively s**t on the government in a purposefully tribal way 5 days a week every week of the year.

This was my first thought. Rush came online in 88.

Iran contra followed by transition from Reagan to less popular Bush Sr and a recession and then gulf war?

Iran Contra?

Yeah. Something there. It’s hard to tell the exact timing on this plot. Or where all the points were from. Multiple Gallup?

Iran-contra?

Uh 1964 sure stands out

Yeah. Well that one’s pretty clear. White people on civil rights. Crime and the cities. Then Vietnam. And finally Watergate.

Here’s one factor: Rush Limbaugh's radio show first aired on August 1, 1988.

A lot of people are mentioning that. I guess I would say he might have been representative of a broader movement. And I hate Rush. But as influential as he was. He wasn’t shifting the national view this much.

Zooming out - 1987 abolition of the Fairness Doctrine. I’d bet good money on this one. Fox News came 9 years later.

That policy is irrelevant here.

And FNC is cable.

Aware.

Clearly you aren’t if you think FCC policies are relevant to FNC.

Can you explain why?

Because cable doesn’t have to abide by that rule.

He doesn’t even know what that rule was.

Because it wasn’t what you pretend it was.

Because the FD didn’t and couldn’t apply to cable and FN is cable. Also, the FD did a lot less than the BlueSky “ooooo! FD!” crowd thinks it did. Limbaugh wouldn’t have had to have changed a single thing about his show and stations could comply with FD with like 2hrs/week of off-hours programming.

He was syndicated then. But he was on the air earlier. And there were far worse on air also.