For sure, understanding your goals is vitally important. I just see a lot of framing about the indie vs. tradpub debate like it's a lifestyle choice (and it is!) without the context of the odds of success in reaching any of those goals being *very* different on those two paths.
it really depends on the goals though? still? if your goal is to have published a book, obviously that is most easily reached by self-pub. there are no barriers whatsoever to producing a book shaped thing--you can skip paying for ANYTHING if you really want! that is one goal. there are many!
Yes, there are many goals! You can have any one you like! I was specifically adding that the odds of reaching a monetary goal ("paying the electric bill") are much higher with indie... IF THAT'S YOUR GOAL. Which is one of the goals people have. I really shouldn't because convo always devolves.
It's important to have those convos, though. It may seem like devolving, but it's also a filter for communication or changing minds. It's a massive field, and what may seem true in one may not in another. Thank you for working this out with me 💜
That's a part I'm confused about, actually. When considering *all* the avenues of self-publishing, I've seen it to be the inverse. Self pub does mean it's more in your hands, but you only get two of them. You're limited not only by your product, but time and connections and luck and resources.
I've been in this for 15+ years. I've coached lots of writers (indie & trad) on how to run their business. I've paid close attention to people's full career trajectory. Do I have perfect knowledge? No. But I have a big database. And my database says...
People who take the tradpub path: 1-in-100 odds of making any money at all, often one-book-contract-and-done, v. seldom NYT-level People who take the indie path: 1-in-25 odds of making any money at all, most often coffee-money, pretty often electric bill money, ~10% make substantial income.
I think that's probably overstating the odds positively for tradpub. I'm being generous there because people often don't even get on the path... they quit before even querying. Self-pub has a much bigger success rate of people actually going through the whole process (putting the book out there).
Yes, my KDP account goes back to 2008. I've also been around the self-pub trenches for a very long time! I've sold half a million indie books and have watched all the changes--the shift to 70% royalties, freebies breaking into their own list, KDP Select, KU1, KU2. The dynamics are always shifting!
In spite of that, I would probably not feel confident making projections about what % of people are achieving what goals in what manner, because while I have watched a *lot* of shit happen, I have also watched it get increasingly difficult to accomplish anything in EVERY corner of publishing.
I only throw out numbers because no one else seems to want to and it leaves the impression that All Things Are Equally Likely, and I feel like that's not true. Certainly more challenges every year; then again,no tiktok when I started. But probably ill-advised to try to help people in a bsky thread.
I think the reason we all seem do be disconnecting is that this was a thread that said "which path is best depends on your goals" and I don't think you even seem to disagree with that? No one said anything about accessibility or money or anything else. It's a new topic, not an oversight!
Yep! Though I will say it's a lot harder to pay my electric bill with indie in this economy than it used to be. 😩
some people have goals that can only be met in trad and to them, investing the time & trying to get a slot makes sense because they would simply not be happy in self-pub. some people would be miserable in trad pub. (I mean, I don't do great with it!) they should never, ever do it. it's complex!
Exactly. I don't think dividing the discussion into one or the other is the most useful. When you boil it down, trad pub can have the prestige of desirability because it means *some* kind of exclusivity or appraisal, but becaue of that it has to draw a line. and for business that's profit.
I'd much rather focus on the long-tail of smaller publishers, hybrid publishers, and something more inventive like a co-op or circle that can offer the strengths of industry and the flexibility and empathy of self-pub. Bringing that accessibility out, raise all ships.
I'm from the comics side, which is a little pocket dimension of traditional mainstream and subversive underground, and all shades inbetween. It's manicured hedges and fungal networks, and they keep each other healthy, but the smaller scene is vastly more influential. Trees alone don't make a forest.
My biggest pro to indie (especially right now) is that if you control your work you can pivot with the market and with the world in such chaos, there are a lot of times I've thought "man I could do so much if I had control of pricing/cover/____" about some of my trad books! I do with indie.