So the man ran into the surgical center, and the surgical staff employees told them it was private property demanded a warrant and identification. You can even hear one staff member say: "You're not even a federal agent" after he refuses to identify himself. Another calls 911 to report a kidnapping
DHS says that this was a "hot pursuit" situation where no warrant is required. But even in a hot pursuit, DHS needs to show a law enforcement emergency to pursue non-felony suspects onto private property. This guy was not a felon, and there was no emergency. They had to get a warrant...
Even if there was an emergency, the officers still needed probable cause of an offense to enter private property, and they have already admitted that they did not have probable cause. No, racially profiling landscapers doesn't count. See multiple recent court cases from LA!
And so now they're prosecuting two employees for standing in the way of their illegal operation. It's unbelievable. These officers should be prosecuted for violating the Constitution every which way, but instead, it's Americans sticking up for the Constitution who are locked up.
Set aside the Constitution/search of private property. Section 287 of the Immigration and Nationality Act itself requires administrative warrants for ICE to even interrogate anyone about their citizenship unless they already have cause to believe that the person is "an alien"! Tell ICE to beat it.
The ICE slush fund just passed by Republicans pays bounties to these creeps. The resistance by the staff is gold. Fuck ICE.
So this was illegal from the jump. Then to actually ARREST anyone, ICE needs an administrative warrant OR probable cause that they've violated US immigration AND reason to believe that the person will escape before they can get a warrant, highly improbable with this guy locked inside the facility.
I wonder if arrests of citizen heros counts towards their quota?
Do they have counsel?
Probably not counsel sufficiently capable of handling this case against this evil regime.
And do they have a go fund me if they need one? I’m sure many would be happy to donate.
📌
I think money should go to the men profiled/kidnapped White people need to be the bodies between fascism and targets of trump, should pay for it when needed and white money needs to be used to back the opposition to this nightmare caused by white supremacy. It's the least we can do as white people.
Making some real assumptions about what these folks can and cannot afford to pay for on their own, based on skin color. Which is kinda like racial profiling, when you think about it.
Not really. None of these expenses were expected and legal expenses are rarely cheap.
You checked, say, hospital orderlies' salaries lately? Also, decent criminal lawyers with an immigration subspecialty, their hourly rates?
They also both have Hispanic last names, and basically anyone who knows anything about health care knows there's a 1 in 3 chance that they're here on work visas, so the assumption that they are being "coddled" and have no skin in the game is pretty fucking offensive.
That is dumb. To assume because someone is white they make enough money to afford to pay for expensive attorneys to cover their persecution by a fascist government is a dumb thing to do. We should support financially or otherwise anyone who throws themselves between fascists and their prey.
It isn’t a zero sum game. You can support both the people being targeted and the people working to protect them. Also, how do you even know those surgery center workers are white?
I don't mean this as an attack on your altruism
In the context where you shared it, it does come off that way
Are these people still in custody?
"Even if there was an emergency, the officers still needed probable cause of an offense to enter private property, and they have already admitted that they did not have probable cause. No, racially profiling landscapers doesn't count." @unroll.bsky.social Unroll please
Cops lie constantly. Assume anything claimed by a cop that isn’t supported by video or non-cop witnesses is 100% bullshit, and you’ll rarely go wrong.
@unroll.skywriter.blue Thank you
The thread as a shareable webpage: https://skywriter.blue/pages/did:plc:zhcfq6acrvb6ermtjt644w2n/post/3luxa57nyxs2r.
Given that he ran when he saw ICE officers, I'd think that would be sufficient for PC. If the officers had left to get a warrant, the guy would be gone.
You could think that, but you'd be wrong.
if it's a "consensual encounter" as described by dhs, fleeing isn't probable cause. it's not consensual if you're not allowed to leave
Saying "I don't want to talk to you" and fleeing are two very different things.
you don't have to tell cops anything if you're not even being detained. again, if you're not allowed to leave, it's not a consensual encounter
Certainly. But if you run on seeing them, that supports probable cause. That's simply a fact in the criminal context - what I'm trying to look up is whether flight alone supports arrest in the immigration context.
If you saw masked human traffickers, wouldn't you run?
www.usatoday.com/story/news/n... This article seems to imply that ICE agents went back later to stake out the surgery center and arrest the staff members. Is that correct? Does that mean they got a warrant or a grand jury indictment?
Healthcare locations are also more regulated so police can’t do stuff like that legally. In this case it was even for a less valid than most. This article👇 is a little old but the situation is similar without the blood draw part. www.foxnews.com/us/utah-nurs...
The law needs to be made clear to those of us willing to help folks. Clear cut instructions on what to do if ICE agents show up at your job.
That's saying they *don't* need a warrant to question people.
from David's post "unless they already have cause to believe that the person is "an alien"!" from the screenshot: "person believed to be an alien" Does merely fleeing constitute a reasonable belief the person is an alien? I'm white. If I fled, does that still mean they have cause?
If it doesn't apply to me, then it must be the case that fleeing PLUS Hispanic is what constitutes the basis of the belief that the person is an alien. I'm not a lawyer, but boy that sure seems like racial profiling to me.
Looks like flight is enough for reasonable suspicion, which justifies brief detention to inquire whether the person is an alien.
"Headlong flight-wherever it occurs-is the consummate act of evasion: It is not necessarily indicative of wrongdoing, but it is certainly suggestive of such" And that was held enough for reasonable suspicion. supreme.justia.com/cases/federa...
So by their own rules they do not have the right to approach anyone that they do not already know the name of. Because how can you even suspect someone is an illegal alien if you do not know who they are? I can see maybe at the border and the officer saw them crossing at an unauthorized point.
Does California have a converse-1983 law and how hard would it be to pass if not? Because then the clinic staff could sue the purported ICE agents for violating their constitutional rights. papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....
That video makes it quite clear the ICE goons violated like three different laws and did some amateur stuff during this encounter I hope the judge eats them alive.
The judge who allowed this is a fucking fascist.
No warrant, a judge ain't involved at all. Now if the judge lets it fly definitely a Fasc
Hopefully they beat the charges and then sue and get paid for having to waste their time and money when they broke ZERO LAWS.
Unfortunately, that’s not a winnable lawsuit.
Someone gonna tell this guy about Bivens?
He’s not there yet! But yeah once that dipshit takes a seat they going to push aside civil liberties, and the constitution.
Can't prosecute when you don't know who they are because no ID/Masked OH WAIT.
And those employees will never be convicted. They will just have to hire lawyers and spend hours and hours of hassle and many days' of anxiousness. The ICE agents? Not bothered at all because they know that there'll be no consequences for them.
Today is not yesterday, but when they filled rfk stadium with May Day “arrests”, they had to just hold and release. Even ICE’s obscene $resources can be overwhelmed/strained by “obstructer” bodies eventually.
My comment about “mass arrest” of civil disobedience relevant perhaps. We should create paddy-wagons full of ‘obstructors’, vs individuals that can get picked off with charges, etc.
Had assumed that civil disobedience arrests would happen like the last X times (historically)…but clearly this is our territory now. Should we be thinking about how to move these arrests into the “mass” category? *Large groups* blocking single kidnappings / presenting selves for the paddy wagons?
Where is the state of California? It is not protecting its citizens.
If they don’t show proof of their being a police officer and show their faces too bad so sad! Bye ICE!
Let's not forget that being in the country illegally is a CIVIL matter, not a CRIMINAL matter. They're is no "hot pursuit" of someone involved in a civil case.
OMG this predictive text that always turns "there" to "they're". Oy. 🙄
Bingo. They don't have a hot pursuit exemption. This shit is crazy.
OK, but please, don't call 911. They're not going to help this.
Wondering what the Ontario PD did in response, and... as predicted, jack shit: bsky.app/profile/j15r... [I say "as predicted" to object in advance to replies of the form "why are you surprised, cops are bad". We should NEVER accept this behavior as inevitable, even as we predict its likelihood.]