nah the rightwing reactionary space is way oversaturated. he might get some cash but it won’t be that much compared to losing his job, and he won’t become an online rightwing celebrity. He’s got no hook, at least the Iranian guy has like a Hipster Shah thing going on

Accurate.

For a short while, then he will regret it, Its always nice to expose those dumb fucks, let him have his little gofundme, only other racists trash are being scammed anyway, who gives a fuck.

What is happening in this country

Fascism but with follower counts and ad revenue

😬

Let's hope not. Even a lot of those on that stage were uncomfortable with him. wanting to say offensive vulgar words is still not close to I want a dictatorship and to do away with the Constitution. But I'm afraid you may be right, which is scary as hell.

what makes you think they were uncomfortable with him?

No they weren’t. These people are literally friends!

He red flagged almost immediately by a few. But ok.

You are attempting to argue with one of the leading experts on the current American Neo Nazi movement. She knows who they hang out with.

Ok. I'm not arguing.

LOL They literally hang out with each other!!!!! I know who these people are. Some of them I personally know!

This delusional attitude is exactly what Jubilee is preying on.

"I only agree with the self hating persian who had the decency to respect that violently shaking racist" as a stepping stone to letting the brown shirts grab you

The only way they might have been uncomfortable would be they realized he might be giving away the game for the rest of them. But that was a stage full of fascists, period.

He is now the Secretary of Foreign Relations

Lol $15k in this economy aint shit, this video will forever be around to let anyone know he is a nazi lover

We should never platform fascists because they don’t care about debate. They don’t care about truth. Reality informs our truth. Their truth informs their reality. The correct thing to do was to punch him in the nose while he was mid-laugh, call him an asshole, and walk away.

Bleak but true

this is why you don’t “debate” nazis

If I wasn't so sure he was going to get indicted for whatever's on his hard drive in a few years, I'd be pretty mad right now.

There's only one language that humbles a Nazi and if you're not willing to speak it, you shouldn't put yourself in a room with them.

It's their love language

Bro cant even raise his hand high enough before getting decked

I can't get enough of it.

the best part is how right when it’s over it starts again

To debate someone is to presuppose that each side has valid points to make. Fascism has no valid points.

hard disagree. in 2014? maybe. but at this point these ideas are essentially mainstream and I'm not sure how else we combat them at this point except for engaging with them directly?

Exactly

like one shitty dude getting $15k does not in any way negate literally millions of people FINALLY being exposed to effective counters of what *highly* insular and extremely popular podcasters have been spewing for a decade..... that's pretty important work isn't it?

these audiences are never going to realize how absurd the fascistic ideals they're playing to are until someone like medhi brings them face to face with it maybe the format isnt ideal but I don't understand how we don't all see yet that "just ignore them and they'll go away" just makes things worse

there's other options than platforming them to fight these ideas. I feel like we've already seen that "surely people will take away that this viewpoint is absurd" isn't a given. you can just promote good ideas instead of putting good and bad on stage and expecting people to favor the good

there are no givens in a debate. will some people come away thinking "wow, that self-avowed fascist seemed like a very smart and reasonable guy"? maybe. but you think more people will have that takeaway than "that guy literally said he's a fascist, so his ideas are probably fascistic"

like right wing podcasters have been fighting tooth and nail for a decade to convince people that everyone calling them fascists are hysterical and that they're actually just totally reasonable pragmatists. I'm really surprised people aren't seeing the value in someone openly admitting it in public.

and sure, you *can* "just promote good ideas" ....but there's been great people doing that for a LONG time and it's simply not had the reach that right wing podcasts or these types of debates do. again, the left has been doing "just leave them alone and they'll go away" and it clearly doesn't work.

yes, I do because being honest most of America couldn't define fascism to you and doesn't think the country is heading that way. especially in the groups that this outreach is supposed to impact. the right wing has moved on from fighting these terms and now you have a Fox New host

Directionality is never, ever obvious, but generations if not a couple centuries of people raised on "We hold these truths to be self-evident" takes a while to undo.

Lol

How about by ruining their lives? By killing them? Can we stop pretending these people have normal, debatable viewpoints? When you platform this bullshit you are presenting it as "the other side" as though it's totally reasonable. How has that worked out for us so far in this country?

I'm also not sure what you mean by "how has that worked out for us so far" because "don't engage with them, leave them alone and they'll go away" has far and away been the predominant disposition towards these ideals for a decade.........sooooo yeah, how HAS that worked out for us so far?

Really?? Is that how you see it? Because from here it seems to me like US media has done a whole lot more sharing of these ideas than "don't engage".

...........yes that's a very measured and realistic alternative. thanks! (palantir if you're listening this is sarcasm)

I'm tired of this "measured take" garbage. They have taken over the country, people espousing these beliefs are taking away MY PEOPLE and sending them to fucking concentration camps and you want us to be measured? To what? Fucking invite them onto a podcast to debate? No. Fuck this.

ok, well what about realistic? and yeah, my people too. you don't think I'm scared out of my fucking mind on a daily basis? you think you're the only one? it's kinda gross that you think that simply because I disagree with you on praxis that I can't appreciate the gravity of the situation.

Oh you think its gross I'm so sorry. I think its gross that while these people orchestrate ethnic cleansing, the best we can do is say "no lets let them talk and debate them".

I never said that's "the best we can do." I said I think it does more harm than good to just leave these people alone, because that's what the left has been doing for a decade, and now we're here.

And I mean, what has happened after they came on that video and were completely picked apart? One guy supposedly is fired. Now he'll get 20k and is being given the red carpet to grift on other nazi podcasts, while Jubilee makes bank off this. They certainly dgaf. This is not working.

how do you know it's not working? it doesn't have the same immediate effect as "that guy just made a bunch of money," but I'm not sure what kind of immediate result you expect to see from something of which the intent is to simply reframe the conversation and address ideas....?

BECAUSE A FUCKING EUGENICIST NAZI IS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

that..... does not address my question?

You asked me "how do you know its not working"? Because this whole "give both sides a platform to present the illusion that they're equally reasonable" has been all over US media for longer than either of us have been alive. And yet, there he is. I'm done. Nazis should die. Argue with yourself.

in this form? in this media environment? no, it really hasn't. we're not talking about the msm sanewashing that has been happening for that long, were talking about extremely popular internet personas being faced directly with effective rebuttals head on (or not).

Engage them with a kick in the teeth.

I mean, ok. but unfortunately tim pool has like a $5M compound and he's probably going to keep spewing bullshit regardless of how many people are willing to do that. sooo that's kind of where we're at 🤷

this is why i don't trust taylor lorenz, she's had libs of tiktok within lethal range more than once and done nothing for humanity with those opportunities

Amen and fuckin hell, they gave twenty of them a platform and a stage. Now we know who they are and what they think. And these guys treat it like they're interviewing for a job with the GOP.

The good news is that the Trump admin now has one more Iranian, one more Hispanic male with tattoos, and one more DACA that outed themselves for deportation to CECOT.

Please just shut the fuck up

I respectfully decline

you're one of the fascists

I don't think you know what that word means...

he says, cheering on the actions of the fascists

Hooray? Huzzah? Yay? Clap? None of which appear in any comment I've made. You can make up whatever you want in your imagination station that you call home, but it is detached from the reality you seem to have wandered into.

"it's good news when fascism happens to people i don't like" - you bsky.app/profile/ossi...

Oh, I see. You just don't understand the ironic humor of watching 3 fascists from Iran, Argentina, and Mexico out themselves to millions of people on the Internet while the current government black bags anyone even LOOKING like they do and sending them to CECOT. You're just insufferable to be around

who are you excited about being deported next, huh pal?

You seem to be hung up on this made up excitement. Can you show me on the map where you find this excitement you are referencing?

You are advocating for people to be put in what is a concentration camp. You are the other side of the same coin as the current fascists in power.

I'm not advocating for anything of the like. You have made inferences that do not match reality. I made an comical observation regarding the fascists in the video being the exact same nationalities and physical characteristics used to justify sending people to CECOT.

God, but you're such a shitheel. You are as basic a white bro as every dude in that video, but at least they weren't hiding their shittiness behind "I'm just joking bro". Honestly dude, pick better battles.

Didn't you know that denying due process was super hilarious? It must be nice to be a white dude who doesn't have to worry about ICE questioning the legitimacy of their citizenship.

I'm not fighting any battles. I don't need to try and convince random people on the Internet who read one comment out of context who I am and what I stand for. I'd rather let you guys ruin your day thinking about it for hours.

Honestly if many people told me I was talking and acting like a fascist, given that I'm not, I'd be a little horrified. I mean it's never happened to me. I'd not be stomping my feet to say "nuh uh it doesn't matter what it looks like it matters how I feel, u mad bro". Cause that's how _they_ act.

Fascism even relies on your kind doing this. Understand that fascists don't GET satire. They don't even understand the concept. When you mockingly repeat their shit, they don't see it as mocking. They just see it and think "I can too". So, if you actually give a shit? Stop doing that.

Nah.

Why? Like he's getting donations yeah but why does that matter?

Yeah I don't get it. $15,000 is nothing, he lost his job and everyone knows he's a fascist now. He can only work for other fascists, and they are probably shitty employers. Maybe underpay him because they know his options are limited.

He’ll be on Newsmax by week’s end

He seems pretty terrible at grifting. He's only asking for 15k.

This is a very intentional strategy. Start the goal low and have it automatically raise every time you get close to it. It’s already over $11k and there’s a good chance he blows past that $15k and makes way more

Exactly. Why would he need a job now? He can and obviously will run straight to grift.

Does he already have a substack, or will it launch this weekend?

Pretty much all of those people have substances and/or monetized social media.

I had a brief bit of joy at this fascist encountering consequences and now I feel despair realizing you're right.

It’s better than nothing.

The message for their audience is that they can now speak out without fear, as their comrades will rally around them. We’ll see lawsuits against the companies that fire these types soon. They want to break open the permission structure and intimidate their employers and coworkers into silence.

.........they've been speaking without fear for like 10+ years now.......?

Define “they.” Normalization is a process, and the Richard Spencer types have their own income sources outside employment. Now, they are getting louder.

the right wing media ecosystem, particularly on the internt. to me, the most consequential aspect of these people feeling that they have license to speak freely is not really the implications of that in their personal life, but how many other people they are able to radicalize.

this was a different conversation ten years ago. at that time I think it would have contributed to their legitimization in a dangerous way. but at this point it seems clear to me that avoiding that engagement is only hurting us. because they've already been legitimized whether we like it or not.

so it's not that they're getting loud, they are loud. getting louder? maybe. but they've been loud. us being quiet or pretending we don't hear them doesn't make them less loud and it certainly doesn't make anyone else hear us at the same volume as them when they're 5x louder than us.

You engage with fascist by offering a different social vision. Sartre, Eco, and so many others who lived through the last round have written at length about this. Debate is a game for the fascists, where they make a fool of the debater for engaging while fondling their revolvers.

Fascism is the idea that politics should be based around who has the ability to enact violence on their fellow citizens. It's a threat. You don't debate them for the same reason that you don't criminals who think they have a right to break into your home and murder your family.

Even getting on the same stage says you think that "I have the right to murder you and your family because you look or think differently than me" is a legitimate idea that needs intellectual debate. Like, there's a reason the "debate" in the mid-20th century was settled by a world war.

We need to bring back shunning and talk about what we want to do to make the world better with our channels, not creating content that empowers the next generation of fascist ideologues.

None of this changes because fascist content has become a money-maker on the Internet, and "debates" with fascists where they smirk at the liberal saps and talk about how they intend to harm them are just another form of fascist content.

And, absolutely predictable that it would be. Everyone involved in the whole event should be embarrassed, including the ones who meant well.

I am hopeful that because he’s not “hot” he won’t get that racist mom treatment and it fizzles out with the Epstein stuff going on.

He doesn't have to be attractive. Look at the people in this sphere. There are a lot of men that are very unconventionalally attractive.

I know :( I was just being hopefully. Saw he’s blowing past 30k now though so that’s out the window.

🤮

meeting of dem strategists somewhere: "okay let's brainstorm some ideas... how do we triangulate the jubilee nazi freak"

i still havent forgotten the million $ n word lady

It's extremely unlikely this will turn out well for him.

Yeah, not everyone who fucks up on camera gets to be Kyle Rittenhouse.

even kyle rittenhouse isn't kyle rittenhouse. Where is he today? Doubt he even has a job and the magats lose interest fast. No one is going to support these young men for the rest of their lives. For that matter: where's rudy?

Right, the idea that this will inevitably lead to a career as a maga pundit is absurd. The fascists who donated will forget about him tomorrow but that video will exist forever.

It won’t impact his future at all lol. He was already known in these circles so that’ll be cool and he’ll get a new job just fine in a bit — if he even lost his current job.

bsky.app/profile/mich... it gets worse.

Monetizing the fascist outrage is nothing new for this boi.

I know this bc I do this for a living, and it’s pretty much never permanent, even when they’re in the GOP itself.

Wait, you do what for a living? Track fascists?

And yeah, I figure he’ll live but he’s almost certainly not gonna get rich and famous. That’s all I meant

Pretty sure this guy with zero relevant experience is going to be rich now. techcrunch.com/2025/02/06/a...

Yeah, but that guy was in the mainstream news for a solid 9 months. This guy is an attempted influencer with a gofundme because he was on one episode of a web show.

Like I said, it won’t ruin his life. It’s a speed bump. But this guy did not beat a murder case on TV, so I doubt somebody’s just gonna give him a million dollars

I am a journalist. Bet anything this guy is back in politics by 2027. People who got fired from state GOP‘s because of my journalism two years ago are getting jobs again. Someone I wrote about being at a Nick Fuentes rally has a Senate confirmation on Thursday

Oh I didn’t see the whole show. I didn’t think this guy actually worked in politics, I thought he just happened to be in the kind of groyper podcast scene

He didn’t, but they all want to. They all want to be in politics in some form, whether that is an influencer or a c4 or doing something at turning point. I don’t know that those doors are closed to him now. We’ll see.

By “this guy” I meant one in the article that I was linking. I was just trying to provide a variety of examples.

As an expert-respecter I won't argue with you! At what point though do you think we're the ones who benefit from engaging?

The problem with Jubilee is that it is set up in their favor. Every time I’ve seen clips of the show, I have known who the fascist is. And it’s clear to me that none of the left-wingers actually on Jubilee have known who any of the fascists are.

I completely agree on Jubilee, the entire premise of the show isn't remotely designed around having constructive arguments. As soon as things start going poorly for one of them, they just remove them and counter with other bullshit. It's definitely not the situation people should be promoting.

I stopped watching Jubilee when I started noticing all the right-wing media grifters arguing with random liberals off the street in their Middle Ground series. Blaire White and the woman from PragerU arguing against trans rights…

So you have one person going in blind, and 20 people who all know each other and are well prepared. Who do podcasts and have blogs and know each other, and know the ends and outs of each other‘s beliefs. Who have, in some cases, spent years debating each other on paywalled podcasts.

irrc, one time myron from fresh and fit was one of the 20.

No thank you!!

If you walk into a bar with 20 nazis and stay to have a beer.....

I am not a no platformer. I “platform” people all the time. I engage with them publicly; I’ll argue online, I’ll talk to them at events. I won’t make plans to go on a fascist podcast, but if they are live streaming at an event I’m at, I don’t walk away. But the problem here…

Not knowing who these people are means not being particularly familiar with their circles. Also the left winger is the famous person, right? The right are desperate for clout and followers. They’re not normal people, not random turning point students. They all want to be the next Nick Fuentes.

Proof that this stunt was stupid to do.

Yes.

bsky.app/profile/gwen...