i'm sorry, no it's not: exit polls explicitly show white young men as the strongest shift from 2020: woo hits women but doesn't seem to have the same partisan shift
Replies
are people really trying to argue that young men are not idiots
jun 23, 2025, 3:08 am β’ 0 0 β’ view
no. try again
jun 23, 2025, 4:04 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
"men are uniquely susceptible to online bullshit" and "young men are trending right" are two completely different arguments
jun 22, 2025, 11:14 pm β’ 8 0 β’ view
Whoβs gonna tell βem?
jun 22, 2025, 11:25 pm β’ 9 0 β’ view
i mean the point i'm trying to make is that we can't assume that it's impossible for young women to also massively swing right and we need to understand 1) why it hasn't happened yet 2) what could make it happen 3) how to reverse the trend in young men. 'sall
jun 22, 2025, 11:27 pm β’ 3 0 β’ view
The conversation appears to be about what has objectively happened, so its weird to suddenly shift to what may hypothetically possibly maybe happen (but hasn't).
jun 23, 2025, 1:43 am β’ 1 0 β’ view
Hypothesis: there is no woman-coded equivalent to toxic masculinity.
jun 23, 2025, 1:19 am β’ 23 4 β’ view
Correct. But we're fucking mean as hell.
jun 23, 2025, 1:26 am β’ 2 0 β’ view
A major part of toxic masculinity is recovering the Stolen Golden Age, and there isnβt really a woman-coded period of On Top to harken back to
jun 23, 2025, 1:28 am β’ 12 0 β’ view
a big chunk of the fascist tradwife appeal to young girls is "the economy is terrible and jobs are awful but you know what was good? staying home being a mum not having to think about anything except baking"
jun 23, 2025, 1:32 am β’ 2 0 β’ view
And yet that's not growing anywhere as quickly as white men reactionaries.
jun 23, 2025, 1:39 am β’ 13 0 β’ view
Right wing reactionaries are explicitly *for* keeping women down, itβs just never going to be as appealing to women. They do okay with white women but thatβs just because another promise is to keep minorities down. The bread baking fantasy stuff doesnβt survive 4 seconds of being a SAHM
jun 23, 2025, 1:48 am β’ 21 4 β’ view
i mean "cities are hellscapes where you will die and be robbed at the same time" is immediately rebuffed by living in them but that hasn't stopped the right wing! the pivot from the grifters is then to just say "well you're doing it wrong because you're sinful"/"you live in the bit of the city" etc
jun 23, 2025, 1:51 am β’ 1 0 β’ view
Right thereβs a reason democrats win cities by a bazillion and lose rurals. The right wing whack jobs donβt go to cities bc thatβs where minorities and lesbians live.
jun 23, 2025, 2:00 am β’ 2 0 β’ view
Right but they donβt go to the cities! So the fantasy can live on. Likewise believing everything in your life will be solved if you get buff as hell takes time to falsify. If youβre a young woman interested in living the trad life though you are very possibly gonna find yourself living it fast
jun 23, 2025, 1:55 am β’ 5 0 β’ view
The target audience for a lot of trad wife content is men
jun 23, 2025, 1:49 am β’ 16 3 β’ view
it is fundamentally fetish shit
jun 23, 2025, 1:51 am β’ 9 0 β’ view
Yeah the problem is most women arenβt nearly as stupid as most men and donβt fall for that bullshit + the reality of that lifestyle when your husband is a fat lazy slob who blames immigrants for his failure isnβt all that alluring
jun 23, 2025, 5:36 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
this is such an easy answer- they are susceptible to reactionary propaganda because it proposes to return all their unearned privilege that is being encroached on. It tells them they can once again dominate others with no consequences. Seems clear why this same message is not also targeted at women
jun 22, 2025, 11:50 pm β’ 14 1 β’ view
also relates to e.g. fascist rhetoric about trans people "invading women's spaces/sports" etc. it's all connected
jun 22, 2025, 11:53 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
this also applies to white women in the US being targeted by fascist rhetoric about e.g. migrants, you can see it at trump rallies with people of all ages carrying "mass deportation now" signs
jun 22, 2025, 11:51 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
you're telling me that women have historically been equally as privileged as white men? Women have only been able to vote since 1920 in the US
jun 23, 2025, 12:02 am β’ 2 0 β’ view
no, obviously not. good grief. but there have also always been subcultures of women opposed to them getting the vote, opposed to abortion, opposed to birth control, etc.
jun 23, 2025, 12:08 am β’ 1 0 β’ view
you said yourself, young white women have not swung to the right the way young white men have, and you said we need to know why. This is why
jun 23, 2025, 12:07 am β’ 3 0 β’ view
and my point, and worry, is that you could be missing the word "yet"
jun 23, 2025, 12:09 am β’ 1 0 β’ view
It sounds like you're worried that women will discover a hidden history of dominating all other groups and will then suddenly be much more into the "retvrn" propaganda? Until then, Pedagogy of the Oppressed is a good guide for how oppressed groups may also become oppressors
jun 23, 2025, 12:25 am β’ 4 0 β’ view
misogyny is a huge motivational factor in american politics but you seem to be eliding the fact that, historically, racism has been just as much of one.
jun 23, 2025, 12:26 am β’ 0 0 β’ view
Women can be extremely stupid but they also have countervailing pressures in the form of an interest in reproductive freedom and job protections. And I think the manosphere has had more time to evolve in a consistent partisan direction. Woo stuff more scattered.
jun 23, 2025, 1:59 am β’ 4 0 β’ view
Also was anti-Kamala, might be different if the republicans nominated ivanka or whatever
jun 23, 2025, 1:59 am β’ 2 0 β’ view
Young men, especially in this day and age, are susceptible to right wing propaganda. The Internet has become an easy outreach platform of right wing propaganda via social media. These two facts are not unrelated.
jun 23, 2025, 2:45 am β’ 2 0 β’ view
If you ignore all facts about the world and work with pure formal logic, then sure, I guessβ¦
jun 23, 2025, 12:55 am β’ 4 0 β’ view
Men are gullible as sh*t. And they gossip far more than women.
jun 23, 2025, 1:12 am β’ 1 0 β’ view
???
jun 23, 2025, 12:00 am β’ 8 0 β’ view
have a wee think
jun 23, 2025, 12:00 am β’ 1 0 β’ view
For that I follow
jun 23, 2025, 11:26 am β’ 1 0 β’ view
Separate? Sure. Unrelated? C'mon now
jun 22, 2025, 11:27 pm β’ 66 0 β’ view
right but you can't just jump from a to z without understanding b-y and what we can do to stop the trend becoming more general across the population.
jun 22, 2025, 11:28 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
There is no b-y. They are inudated with bullshit 24/7 on the internet even if they have no political interest, they get sucked in through their online interest. Have a few friends that turned into werido lbgtq hating, anti vaxxers in just a few months time and I canβt do anything about it
jun 23, 2025, 12:04 am β’ 33 0 β’ view
Just last week had one that is convinced being gay is a choice cuz Billie Eilish has a boyfriend now. I use to be of the opinion like yours but more recently it seems obvious itβs just the internet, there is nothing else there. They are well off and have been center left normies for a decade
jun 23, 2025, 12:04 am β’ 25 0 β’ view
we can already see very clearly that the far right are using transphobia as a recruiting agent and i fear we don't yet know how effective that's going to be for young people
jun 23, 2025, 12:11 am β’ 3 0 β’ view
right and i know at least one dude who became fullbore nazi because of mad shit they read online over a period of years (and others who recovered). but i was also once asked by a young lass while i was doing outreach if it was true that wildfires were being caused by government lasers. so
jun 23, 2025, 12:07 am β’ 0 0 β’ view
Well? Was it true?
jun 23, 2025, 12:56 am β’ 0 0 β’ view
Would you like the secret to understanding why men are uniquely susceptible to right wing bullshit ? It's worsening economic conditions are exasperating the feeling of a lose of power and purpose as the patriarchy is weakened and the right is exploiting it
jun 23, 2025, 4:06 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
it's not that simple when people are swinging right even in pretty favourable economies! and when the beating heart of fascism has always been middle class people!
jun 23, 2025, 4:09 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
Yes and both things can be true. It's about the loss of relative power (and exasperated by the loss of free domestic labour from women) But please feel free to explain why scores of men are becoming nightmares
jun 23, 2025, 4:28 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
i mean a major feature among american middle class kids is literally boredom and malice. economic growth doesn't fix that
jun 23, 2025, 4:30 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
I'm open to ideas on how to fix that
jun 23, 2025, 4:33 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
walkable cities and third spaces
jun 23, 2025, 4:34 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
I agree that would help. Unfortunately the right has gone all in on forcing alienation
jun 23, 2025, 4:35 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Nah it's cause they suck and don't have good male role models in their life.
jun 23, 2025, 6:02 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
There is a laundry list of good male role models. You gotta dig deeper
jun 23, 2025, 6:03 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
I said they don't have them. A good role model would tell a kid not to worship Andrew Tate.
jun 23, 2025, 6:04 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Are you saying the role models don't exist or that they aren't as popular as they could/should be?
jun 23, 2025, 6:06 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
I'm saying these loser dudes who love Trump and Tate and Rogan don't have good male role models in their lives.
jun 23, 2025, 6:07 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
Then yep I agree ( it's an inentional part of the ecosystem) bsky.app/profile/chem...
jun 23, 2025, 6:11 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Did you vote for Trump?
jun 23, 2025, 6:01 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
No but it's fascinating you think I did based on that.
jun 23, 2025, 6:02 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
I want to know why you didn't
jun 23, 2025, 6:30 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Becuase he is a monster and a fascist ?? The fuck is happening here
jun 23, 2025, 6:31 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
people love to assume if you don't like the dems you are to blame for the gop lol
jun 23, 2025, 6:35 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
So you weren't susceptible to the worsening economic conditions? They didn't exasperate the feeling of a loss of power and purpose?
jun 23, 2025, 6:39 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
First off I'm a women... And second off i blamed capitalism
jun 23, 2025, 6:46 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
"worsening economic conditions" lmao you idiot
jun 23, 2025, 4:11 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
Are you claiming that economy isn't worse for most people? Or just that it's not a factor in radicalization
jun 23, 2025, 4:26 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
the far right had been hapily growing in scandinavia and austria for decades and they aren't exactly for want of economic stability
jun 23, 2025, 4:29 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Well that's side number 2 which is turns out lots of men like the pitch "what if women where my servants and consent wasn't a thing I needed to worry about"
jun 23, 2025, 4:30 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Are they though?
jun 22, 2025, 11:29 pm β’ 8 0 β’ view
yes
jun 22, 2025, 11:31 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
I know no demographic is a monolith, but a GOP-supporting enby is such a weird concept
jun 22, 2025, 11:16 pm β’ 36 1 β’ view
Generally you're looking at either youth and a combination of contrarianism and/or daddy issues. Most grow out of it. But it takes a little time.
jun 23, 2025, 10:38 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
There was a Canadian poll last October that had the conservatives winning literally every demographic they measured with the sole exception of the Quebecois, including a plurality of nonbinary people.
jun 22, 2025, 11:44 pm β’ 8 0 β’ view
The reality is most people are shockingly uninformed.
jun 23, 2025, 1:45 am β’ 1 0 β’ view
The shift in black men and Hispanic men was larger than that for young white men (although Harris still won black men and essentially tied with Hispanic men): navigatorresearch.org/2024-post-el...
jun 22, 2025, 11:38 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Our marginal +17 young womenπ«‘
jun 22, 2025, 11:20 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Astrology is actually associated with left of center opinions.
jun 22, 2025, 11:14 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
there is however also a very specific and real pathway from alt-medicine wellness online nonsense to trad-wife-fascism!
jun 22, 2025, 11:15 pm β’ 17 0 β’ view
You should hit the gym sometime.
jun 22, 2025, 11:21 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
real ones remember there was a maoist guy on twitter who was super huge but only exercised his legs because he said that biceps were fascist
jun 22, 2025, 11:23 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
is this actually existing lysenkoist bodybuilding
jun 22, 2025, 11:24 pm β’ 2 1 β’ view
no they're right about this
jun 22, 2025, 11:25 pm β’ 8 0 β’ view
Oh not disputing the pipeline, they are right about it's existence. It's prevalence when compared to it's masc-marketed counterparts is my objection. Steroid culture is alt-medicine, y'all.
jun 22, 2025, 11:31 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
yes and no. but there is some counter push on it - you get folk like liam layton and ben carpenter now starting to push back in that sphere (and Godspeed to em) and grifters like the liver king are being shown up as frauds. gotta home some more concerted push is possible
jun 22, 2025, 11:33 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Oh cool there's a couple guys pushing back on steroid use nowadays, the quiet secret of masc-fascist beauty standards for decades that became so prevalent it largely ceased to be taboo, that's a relief.
jun 22, 2025, 11:40 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
If your point was "young men are marks" then the alt-medicine>tradwife pipeline is a really poor deflection.
jun 22, 2025, 11:33 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
it's not the only example it's just a clear and fairly tangible one. basically it comes down to fact we can't just assume it's only a male problem, rather that they haven't figured out how to target young girls the same way yet. and it's dangerous to get complacent
jun 22, 2025, 11:36 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
It's definitely not *only* a masc problem, but it is *largely* a masc problem. Those are different measures.
jun 22, 2025, 11:41 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
right but my point is that, for the latter point, it's "for now". it could very suddenly not be the case.
jun 22, 2025, 11:42 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
Okay, that's fair enough concern I guess. My point is this lady articulated an epistemological crisis posed by young men's penchant to be rubes, you climbed *all over* her mentions going "well wut abt how girls r rubes sometimes, what about if girls were worse!?" and that is embarrassing behavior.
jun 22, 2025, 11:54 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
Hippie anti-vaxxer to fash anti-vaxxer pipeline is real, and I know IRL examples unfortunately.
jun 23, 2025, 12:34 am β’ 16 2 β’ view
"natural living" -> ecofascist is going to become much more common in the near future as climate change manifests more acutely imo
jun 23, 2025, 12:35 am β’ 3 1 β’ view
a, people in alt/hippie circles are extremely suseptible to propaganda. just adorn usual misogynist shit with words like "nurturing", "divine feminine" and "natural cycle" and they won't question anything. sadly I've seen this among people I know, too
jun 23, 2025, 5:51 am β’ 4 0 β’ view
this being in the news today is rather haunting www.bbc.co.uk/news/article...
jun 23, 2025, 1:03 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
I mean by vibes yes, but people thought that about alt med too despite decades of selling strange pills and treatments among right wing media and multiple anti modern medicine strains of Christianity. Does it hold up in practice?
jun 23, 2025, 2:46 am β’ 0 0 β’ view
Right - young men have been consistent marks at least in part because the modern far right is *obsessed* with masculinity and selling a pick-up-artist fuelled future of male supremacy that appeals pretty directly to young men lacking direction. Meanwhile young women swung more heavily to the left.
jun 23, 2025, 4:39 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
I think this is honestly less about deliberate tactics than that the modern far right's leadership was forged in gaming and other 90s/00s chat rooms and forums that were dominated by alienated young men. They only know how to speak to their own. That cuts across class, but not across gender.
jun 23, 2025, 4:42 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
As an older white man, I was really disappointed that young white men shifted this way. I thought the younger generation would be even -more- enthusiastic for Vice-President Harris I was so hopeful that she would be elected.
jun 23, 2025, 1:06 am β’ 4 0 β’ view
Well white people hadnβt vote democrat since 1964!
jun 23, 2025, 9:59 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
I Wana interview the non-binary Trump voters.
jun 23, 2025, 3:37 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
This is all totally unprovable, so take it for what itβs worth, but I think thereβs a lot of reactionary undercurrents affecting women (and young people more generally) that have yet to find an appropriate partisan expression, but when they do weβll probably see a big right wing shift there as well.
jun 23, 2025, 3:47 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
100% agree as a younger gen z woman. i see a lot of shit about βdivine feminine,β dating rich men, and revamped purity culture from people my age on tiktok. the interesting thing is that they often use pro-woman (though not necessarily feminist) rhetoric to champion these ideas.
jun 23, 2025, 4:06 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
i donβt know whether this is a real shift in young women or just typical chronically online bullshit because 1) talking about some of this stuff is still fairly uncouth irl and 2) iβm a lesbian and all my female friends are either gay or superlibs lol
jun 23, 2025, 4:06 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
i'm sorry! zoomer women didn't show this double digit shift in political behavior
jun 22, 2025, 11:14 pm β’ 102 1 β’ view
Gen x women do, though! Went from 58% Biden to 48% for Harris.
jun 22, 2025, 11:22 pm β’ 3 0 β’ view
And honestly, doesn't gen x women moving super hard to the right in 2024 match up with the sudden prominence of "MAHA moms" and other crunchy bullshit becoming a staple of US right-wing politics?
jun 22, 2025, 11:40 pm β’ 6 0 β’ view
*White Gen X women. The white cohort of our whole damn generation lost their minds.
jun 23, 2025, 12:58 am β’ 2 0 β’ view
Not sure how much is targeted messaging versus just what happens but if I were doing online strategy for republicans for an election the goal would be dissuade young women from voting and get men to vote for the republicans. Wonder what young womenβs voter turnout looks like
jun 22, 2025, 11:17 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
I have no idea why astrology keeps coming up in this conversation to dunk on women too. Is astrology silly? Sure. Did they elect Trump because of his rising sign??? No!!!
jun 22, 2025, 11:16 pm β’ 76 2 β’ view
bsky.app/profile/magn...
jun 22, 2025, 11:16 pm β’ 6 1 β’ view
Lots of alt med on the left. Tradwives are specifically pushed by the Mormon church. Thereal pipeline people have put money into is gamers turning into Nazis. Face rt, we (and the West and S Korea) have a young males turning to hate problem
jun 22, 2025, 11:29 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
Bannon specifically targetted gamer men
jun 22, 2025, 11:29 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
oh for sure, i had to stop playing a game a couple years back because when it got larger the game was literally completely swamped with nazis
jun 22, 2025, 11:30 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
A much clearer, MUCH more common pathway is bog standard Christianity
jun 22, 2025, 11:19 pm β’ 12 1 β’ view
right but if we're talking about online radicalisation you also just can't pretend it doesn't exist lol
jun 22, 2025, 11:20 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
Iβm not ignoring them, Iβm considering then and noticing how this interest does not seem to often lead people down the road to MAGA, leading me back to thinking something is wrong with men
jun 22, 2025, 11:35 pm β’ 4 0 β’ view
i mean undoubtedly but white women voted for trump as a majority, it's a race issue as well
jun 22, 2025, 11:38 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
Oh def, I wonβt argue that
jun 22, 2025, 11:39 pm β’ 6 0 β’ view
They elected him because their dads (and moms, tbh) liked him.
jun 22, 2025, 11:17 pm β’ 6 0 β’ view
Until we discuss Gen X Christian pessimism, we will never get it. These people hate being alive, hate living by minorities and hate having to always watch their mouths while their parents and grandparents got to say all types of slurs without repercussions.
jun 22, 2025, 11:18 pm β’ 13 0 β’ view
They should have adopted a proper normal hobby like becoming a neo fascist or degenerate gambler
jun 22, 2025, 11:23 pm β’ 20 0 β’ view
I've heard someone say that astrology isn't something men can easily mansplain so it gets a bad rap.
jun 23, 2025, 2:17 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
I think it's because there are a lot of astrology based political prognosticators on tik tok and it's as dumb as it sounds.
jun 22, 2025, 11:29 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
Woo definitely acts more to keep people on sides then shift votes
jun 23, 2025, 1:20 am β’ 0 0 β’ view
May I suggest using Catalist; exit polls in the USA are almost always low quality Catalist does show a large gender gap for under-30 voters in 2024. It doesn't show a total youth swing as large as that exit poll is claiming. catalist.us/whathappened...
jun 22, 2025, 11:33 pm β’ 3 0 β’ view
Not the main point, but I'm kind of delighted that they're polling nonbinary/other gender youth as a distinct category now (at least in this one). And young white enbies are breaking Democrat at Black voter levels, good for them!!
jun 23, 2025, 3:51 am β’ 4 1 β’ view
Women are, arguably, insulated from it to a degree due to 60+ years of MLM marketing completely fucking social circles. That hit dudes like a freight train.
jun 22, 2025, 11:14 pm β’ 13 0 β’ view
how the hell did 13% of nb folks vote for Trump?
jun 22, 2025, 11:17 pm β’ 1 0 β’ view
a sample size of like 3 non-binary people and also trump supporters putting it down to troll
jun 22, 2025, 11:18 pm β’ 5 0 β’ view
this. when it is a tiny number to begin with, 1 person or troller makes a huge difference.
jun 22, 2025, 11:19 pm β’ 3 0 β’ view
iirc the LGBT split is somewhere around 90/10? and there are conservative trans people
jun 22, 2025, 11:18 pm β’ 10 0 β’ view
Wu, White, Jenner, the leave Brittney Alone lady.
jun 23, 2025, 3:39 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
but also low sample size
jun 22, 2025, 11:26 pm β’ 7 0 β’ view
As a pan nb person, I'm always baffled that there's a segment that large that has no sense of self-preservation.
jun 22, 2025, 11:25 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
What are they putting in those supplements all the podcasts shill? (Not exactly kidding)
jun 23, 2025, 12:02 am β’ 4 0 β’ view
Lead and microplastics.
jun 23, 2025, 12:59 am β’ 2 0 β’ view
unsurprisingly its not uncommon for supplements to be tainted with pain killers, stimulants or steroids.
jun 23, 2025, 2:48 am β’ 1 0 β’ view
Importantly, political behavior is not limited to voting and the woo hitting women is having serious public health effects.
jun 22, 2025, 11:31 pm β’ 34 0 β’ view
babies with measles, gay bashing at the library
jun 22, 2025, 11:34 pm β’ 2 0 β’ view
bsky.app/profile/magn...
jun 23, 2025, 4:03 pm β’ 0 0 β’ view
And it tends to be treated much differently by commentators.
jun 22, 2025, 11:32 pm β’ 11 0 β’ view
one thing we're never gonna talk about is who didn't vote in 2024 but did in 2020, because it might embarrass the DNC.
jun 23, 2025, 1:37 am β’ 0 0 β’ view