I know this really shouldn't bother me, but I've just read another article about how Arsenal started "4 centre backs and 3 defensive midfielders" at Anfield on Sunday. Genuinely what are people watching. Merino was playing next to Gyokeres OOP. Timber was up and down all day. Calafiori had 3 shots!
A lot of it is just based on the last season which is just unfair, 3 games in, missing key players, losing their top CB, the performance was good keeping that in mind, also that if you are calling him conservative, what more did the other side create.
Don't let it bother you. This club could be 3-0-0 with 9 points and the media will find something wrong. The club, the manager and coaches, the players, and all us need to imbrace it and become simply unsufferable. Let us the Joker and watch it all burn.
Ok, that last part might have been much, but the rest, I meant it.
Anyone calling Calafiori a center back isn’t watching
I suppose beautiful unicorn of chaos isn't in their limited vocabulary.
Are we all just becoming a bit paranoid / have a massive chip on our shoulder because I find it crazy that absolute joy and glee I’ve seen since Sunday the second we lost! Teams in the past have not been liked but the call to arms from certain media outlets / journalists is way over the top!
Nah they enjoyed watching our players have their legs broken. Arsene was treated the same as Arteta pretty much since he walked in.
That has to just be bait, if Myles was playing at LB would they say 4 defensive midfielders? Ridiculous how people talk about Arsenal.
They’re not watching. It’s agenda driven bullshit we shouldn’t engage with.
Phil what do you make of a number of past Arsenal players and legends expressing respectful “disappointment” with Mikel’s football? For the record, I think Berta has assembled a title winner, but I confess to needing to watch Barca every week as a pallet cleanser to Mikel ball.
Nothing, Phil. People are not actually watching the games. They open their football scores app at the end of the game and build their narratives around that.
Or, they're watched it on Sky and listening to Neville lamenting how Arsenal didn't go for it, away from home, against the champions, with 4 starters missing. Forgetting about Liverpool's identical approach and XG, despite playing at home. A narrative the result unfortunately allowed.
Annoying being subjected to so much lazy narration. Most of them don't seem to know what they're watching even though they watch footy for a living. It was a totally absorbing tactical battle played out by 2 "new" teams, largely canceling each other out, who will only improve as the season goes on.
Honestly funny how 2 years ago we did the same at home v City and nobody criticised City's approach
My issue is this lazy stuff has become mainstream now. I don’t care about somebody in a YouTube comment having a pop but there’s actual paid ex footballers saying this crap
Cos they are chasing the algorithm like everyone else. If they really had insight; they’d be in coaching or management
“…3 defensive midfielders” - people forget Mikel Merino was a striker for half of last season!🤣
Also spent most of his career as an 8 for club and country, Spain of all teams. Shallow analysis all around by fans and mainstream pundits
Most of these articles do not stand up to scrutiny though. There are articles on The Athletic which have a Talk Sport headline yet when you read it, there is nothing there to back it up. Its just a shame with have an international break now so we are stuck with this.
I’ve had Liverpool fans tell me the same thing it’s absolutely ridiculous
We live in a rage bait economy
Historically we’ve never been popular with the press, officials and punditry. I still remember Steve Coppell’s nineties bung task force going after Graham. The press were relentless and afterwards he said ‘this is just the beginning’. Oddly enough, we never heard of the matter again.
Narrative writing the articles before the first words are typed.
Lots of people just don’t like Arsenal and, in particular, don’t like Arteta. Good. Fuck them.
Sports media is all about the spin and telling a story with a fixed narrative, rather than providing an account of what happened...it's far worse than any other industry, including politics!
Oh no, our fullbacks can attack AND defend! Horrible! Sorry we're not pool and didn't buy fullbacks that are just wingers that track back occasionally
@tomcanton.bsky.social has spoken about this and although I don’t agree with him on everything, this point is the strongest one I’m aligned with him on. The state of punditry and analysis by them, especially ex professionals is in the dumpster. More @clivepafc.bsky.social and less Nevilles
People just think merino was a conservative choice. And I sort of agree. But they’re unable to properly characterize why that’s the case. Arsenal weren’t setup defensively nor did we play defensively. Mikel just didn’t pick as risky an attacking lineup as he could have.
Listened to Clive and it settled me. Don't be bothered by what is said and focus on what is on the pitch.
I would have gone with Merino and I still would do in hindsight. My only change to Arteta's team would have been Eze to start LWF.
we were definitely set up defensively
I think we were set up not expecting to have much of the ball, then it turned out we had like 49% possession so it ended up looking v conservative
I think when you set up a team without any real creativity and have Martinelli as a wide player you cannot complain when people question your intentions
Shows where we are (and he is) that people view Martinelli as a conservative player now.
until Eze is up to speed, I’m not sure it’s conservative to pick the best player you have available.
Also strong and physical doesn’t mean defensive. I would have wanted Eze but it’s mad to think we were set up to just take a nil nil
You're looking at this the wrong way. We lacked creativity and technical quality.
So did they. They defended excellently as well. As I say I would have started Eze but Merino playing wasn’t Arsenal being conservative, it was a sensible set up that most managers would have done that led us to having control of the game. Put Saka in there and a fit Odegaard it’s very different
They struggled to break us down because we are so good defensively. They had the superior technical ability and quality. We had lost control in the second half and Arteta took far too long to change it.
Did they have the superior technical quality/ability, or did they have one more moment than us in a game of moments? Rice kicks his to Mars, Szobo doesn't. That's it. "we had lost control" implies, in a way, that we should be able to control the entire game, which I think is a crazy expectation.
Yes both teams defended well. Yes Arteta should have changed it quicker no doubt. I just don’t have an issue with the starting line up
Everything shows a very tight game, with Arsenal on top in certain metrics, Liverpool on top in others. Both team had ‘okay’ moments in open play.
Took a look at the stats breakdown by half. There is nothing to suggest a lack of control or superior ability from Liverpool. The possession breakdown is expected for a home team. 50/50 in first half and 56/44 to Liverpool in second half.
Eze absolutely could have started. Nwaneri could have started. Arteta made a choice to start physicality over technical security
It worked except for a wonder goal. I think that is the part people keep missing here.
Disagree. We were second best in the second half
So what were we in the first half?
fine? But we still weren't great on the counter (because we picked attackers that aren't particularly good technically) and we took far too long to change it up in the second half.
I really think “the neutral” just wants to be entertained and when they’re not entertained they default to blaming Mikel for that. And it doesn’t matter what’s best for Arsenal. They’re just throwing a tantrum.
Arsenal are definitely not an entertaining side anymore (so what) but I find them very fascinating to watch. I never know which spaces certain players are going to take up and it really seems to mess with opposing teams quite a bit.
I'd love to know what the alternative universe stories would have been if we'd won on the Rice (sent to Mars) free kick instead of them winning on Szoboszlai's. Would they have just been exactly the same, with names and teams reversed? Or would there have been something else as the narrative?
Would it have been "LFC were too conservative at home, against a depleted Arsenal"? Or would it have been "Arsenal got the good fortune in a game that could have gone either way"? Or something else? What would the story be, if that was the ONLY difference in the match?
It would have been ‘Arsenal came to stink up the game, didn’t want to play, and got lucky with a smash and grab’.
I don’t know if this is mostly the British press or what but they fit the occurrences of a match into a story dictated by result and result alone - absolutely zero nuance, acknowledgment of the effect of luck on a low-scoring sport, etc
Sports media, generally, maybe. Regardless of nationality.
Mourinho was adored by the English media, which makes me think it’s either a general dislike for Arsenal, or a dislike of Arteta as a person.
It’s not just Mourhino, Ferguson used to do what Arteta did, even at home, Newcastle do it, Tuchel, Conte. It’s simply not a new thing to keep things tight away from home against a rival.
No, but Mourinho received the exact opposite coverage is my point. The media loved him, and actually praised him for the way his teams would get results. The Chelsea vs Liverpool champions league ties were dreadful, but nobody was saying he or Benitez should be entertaining, or going away to win etc
I think we are saying the same thing
We are. Mourinho is the best example of the polar opposite media response to similar tactics. I don’t remember anyone in the media giving him a hard time at all. Perhaps the general opinion would change if Arteta were to finally win the PL or CL. Hopefully we’ll get to find out this season!
I agree to an extent but we heard many of the same pundit / journos waxing lyrical about Mourinho, Benitez and Conte for YEARS with their conservative approaches. Some of the current pundits played for those managers There’s an edge in the “analysis” that seems specific to Mikel
George Graham got the same BS. High press and a highline is “rock and roll football” when it’s Klopp but was boring boring Arsenal when we did it.
Exactly - there’s always been some narrative that Arsenal is somehow playing the wrong way and ruining football: - Boring, Boring Arsenal - Always Cheating - Too many foreigners - Don’t like it up ‘em - Naive / over-celebrating - Too defensive / Set Piece FC Just the way of the world 🤣
I've been thinking exactly this. Everyone looked forward to what ended up being a dull contest and they wanted somewhere to direct their annoyance.
I just want to know how to save those otherwise rational Gooners who have internalized the “Arsenal played 4 CBs and 3 defensive mids” narrative. Some serious illness going round…
They dismiss the fact that Calafiori had those 3 shots whilst also being a handsome bastard
It’s the nature of our world. Lean in to narratives, don’t actually watch or take in any facts or data. Shout loudly. Depressing isnt it. We missed Saka, Kai, MO, Ben, and big Bill. The entire right side. They got a worldly, but were otherwise neutered.
People don't watch. Facts. Also, I wasn't angry after the match but I am now. Why? What were our physios/mgmt thinking to let him play when his ankle was crocked? We wasted a sub that didn't have to happen, put Mosquera in cold, and potentially made Saliba's injury worse. WTF, will we ever learn?
@arseblog.com touched on this pre-season; unfortunately this season is dubbed by some media outlets as “now or never” for Arteta, compounding the anti-Arsenal agenda. They will latch onto any evidence that supports this. As rationale fans, we need to try & block out the noise 👍🏼
Its been now or never for Arteta since 22/23 because apparently we're the only team that spends a lot of money cos of everyone else's 'net spend'. Liverpool have sold well but it doesn't paint over the fact they've just dropped about 250m on two players. They should be winning it year, no one else.
As you also highlighted, the analysis is complete nonsense, lowest common denominator crap, written by people who didn’t watch the game and who have it in for us. Unfortunately, there’s enough of an idiotic audience this appeals to. Thank goodness for Arseblog and the teams content!
Including the two defensive midfielders who collectively scored three goals in a single match against the reigning European Champions to knock them out of the Champions League?
And Jurien Timber, who has scored as many Premier League goals this season as all Man Utd players combined?
I think we should probably try and work on a way to laugh at it while disengaging more generally from shallow analysis. It's probably better for our health than getting annoyed, and, who knows, where stuff is being said/written to get a reaction, it might prompt a change of approach.
Yeah, my football consumption is very Arsenal-forward anyway but it's always helpful dipping elsewhere for thoughts and opinions on other clubs. Reading that article just reminded me why I don't bother.
You'll know far more than me about the pressures of creating content. I think wider/generalist content comes with added issues as it stretches you thin, and causes some sort of reliance on tropes and received wisdom. To an extent, I think bad analysis, when unintentional, risks being baked in.
The relentless cost cutting at most broad publications has limited any depth of analysis. The Athletic is one of the few that has decent resourcing, but even that strays into click-baity material from time to time.
They do a bit of both. Proper analysis for the club's fans, then bollocks analysis (usually off the back of Sky's even more bollocks analysis) for the rest of the hate watching (that includes us with other clubs too) crowd. It does feel like Arsenal get the majority of it though.
This sort of complaint will dry up if and when Arsenal win a few trophies.
Phil - podcasts for clubs offer focussed analysis by people who often specialise in only 1 or 2 teams - newspaper articles are done hurriedly by journalists who need click traffic to keep jobs. You should know this! Football is same as politics. People buy newspapers for opinion bait - not news.
There’s such a strong distaste for Arteta out there that even intelligent journalists fall into the Proper Football Man analysis
6 of those 7 players also started in a game we scored 5 goals in just a week earlier
Against Leeds to be fair.
I think the point was more that if it’s that defensive a selection, it probably doesn’t even try to score 5 against anyone. It scores a few then sits back on a comfortable 3-0.
Every team that comes to Anfield is automatically considered guilty of “parking the bus”. I’m an #LFC fan. But if I am to be fair, Arsenal didn’t do that. Your guys first half was impeccable, defensively and offensively speaking. Second half was ours, however.
I’d say the second half was even but some of that was game state (ie we had to chase for the last 10-15 minutes and did). Think you had a period from about an hour in to the goal where you were on top for sure. It’s so good to actually see some reasonable rival fans! Liverpool got the job done.
There was a 15-20 minute where we lost control second half. The irony was Liverpool didn't score in that period, they only did when we seemed to have got to grips with our press again & it was looking better.
I’d say it was a 10-15 minute period, but yeah, and I think they got the goal just about when we were growing back into it. We got a little open down the middle and they won a free kick there and the rest is history. Brilliant strike from an excellent player.
I’ve seen a lot of free kicks, been a fan for the last 22 years… that was a special one. And for the record, I still think #LFC needs their defence to get even tighter if we want to have a chance at a second consecutive title.
I agree, on both counts. That free kick was SPECTACULAR and I said so at the time. I’m an Arsenal fan, but I’m also a football fan and that was superb technique. The bend, the precision, the power. Sometimes you have to accept someone did something brilliant.
I enjoyed how on MOTD, Wayne Rooney tried to ask, "could Raya have done better? Could he have moved his feet quicker?" And Joe Hart was immediately like, "No," then analyzed the video of the free kick and said, "Sometimes, as a goalkeeper, you just have to accept that it's a world-class free kick."
It was genuinely pretty much the perfect free-kick. He got lovely whip and bend on it to push it out of Raya’s reach and hit it so hard and fast that there was barely any time to react. I genuinely didn’t even immediately clock he’d scored for a split second because of how fast it hit the net.
As soon as I saw the distance I knew it was going in, I’ve watched him strike for a few years and felt it was perfect for him and low and behold 😢
Yeah, I think @arseblog.com said he would’ve preferred it being a bit closer. Felt the distance might suit him. And so it proved.
And this wasn’t a bad idea, to be ultra-physical in the first half. But at half time Martinelli and Merino should have been replaced with Eze and Nwaneri, to completely wrong-foot Slot.
On the Arsecast, Andrew mentioned he thought Arteta might look back at this game and have some regrets. The subs being one that could have affected the game differently.
I have gone full Mugabe Media Lockdown on this one, I’m afraid. No match reports and certainly no Arsecast. Sorry Andrew.
Understandable! 😂😂
Yep. If you're watching Calafiori play LB and coming to the conclusion that he's a CB playing out of position, I'm sorry this sport isn't for you.
This is what I find so disingenuous about how people talk about mikel. Don't look at the body type of his players, look at where they fucking stand in and out of possession!
They aren't watching. They just want to shape the narrative based on results without any nuance
What’s brought me the most peace as a fan is not reading/watching/listening to voices of fans of other clubs or “neutrals”. I know not everyone can do that, but being able to tune out intentional toxicity has been great.
I don't think they're watching. Last summer I also fell in the trap of thinking Cala was a stereotypical Italian defender. You have to watch him to know that he's not. How Merino went from being a striker to defensive midfielder is beyond me. That's only if you want to push a narrative.
If Liverpool had the injuries we do,they'd have been described as half strength.
It’s so fucking lazy and just another obvious tactic to try and get a reaction from fans
We just need to win a big trophy and then everyone will shut up (…… for 5 mins)
Honestly, I think a lot of these pieces/reactions are in somewhat bad faith. We’re the in vogue team to dunk on atm and they know they’ll generate interest both in opposing fans wanting to hate on us and our fans reacting against it. Polarisation sells, I think we just need to ignore it.
Well it was 3 midfielders whose skillset is chiefly defensive (or deeper on the pitch), Merino pressing high doesn't change that. Arsenal fans are saying this too, it's not just bad-faith press intepretations you know! The team has been built to be solid first.
And nothing wrong with that. No Big 6 loses in two years. I would say he knows what he is doing.
Can we make our mind up, are the press wrong to say we were defensive or we WERE defensive but actually that's fine?
6 of one. Both teams were cagey, but the media is exaggerating to say we were “defensive” and they were “attacking”. It’s reductive to say that because NEITHER team was attacking or creating much. We set up to be physical, not defensive. There’s a difference.
I'm sure the media is exaggerating, I'd rather analyse our team honestly than worry about what they're saying. And that means accepting that (for better or for worse) the team was selected to be more solid defensively.
Selected to be more physical. To have a better understanding of our defensive shape and pressing structures (Eze being new to the squad). But not to sit behind the ball and do nothing going forward. We had more touches in their box in the first half (and in the second too).
Merino’s skillet isn’t chiefly defensive or deeper on the pitch. He doesn’t play that role for us, Spain or when he was at Sociedad. He’s a box to box player and actually primarily a playmaker (look at the stats for line breaking passes at La Real). He’s just physical with it.
It's as a physical OOP player who is good on set pieces from the number 8 position. He offers more defensively and less offensively than the other options for that position. Hence it was a defensive selection ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not at all. He doesn’t offer more defensively, he’s just more physical. That’s not defensive. Alan Shearer was physical. Was he a defender? He offers less pure technical wizardry than other options, yes, but that doesn’t mean he offers less offensively at all. He scores and makes goals.
I'm not saying Merino is a CB but he's not Alan Shearer either. He was our most defensive option for that position of those available.
Disagree. He was our most physical option. Also he did a fairly good Shearer impression up front last season.
Like Merino was pressing in a 4-4-2 because that's what our 10 does, that doesn't say anything at all about attacking intent. We don't need to be tricked by media reaction into going so far the other way that it's denying reality.
Agreed. We should look past the cheap headlines because Arteta did pick a side with minimal creativity.
Nothing wrong in being solid away from home against Liverpool.
I can see the argument for it, sure. Just don't know why people are denying it.
Nobody is denying we picked a team to be “solid” and “physical”. The point is the exaggeration to make it seem like we set out to be “defensive” when that’s a different adjective that means something else.
I think we did want to be defensive. That's why we played a primarily off-the-ball player in the number 10 position. Let's not exaggerate Merino's qualities here. We could have played Ethan or Eze.
I agree he’s primarily an off the ball player, and I’m not saying he was picked as our most creative option (he clearly wasn’t). But I don’t agree we picked him to be “defensive”. We picked him bc we saw Newcastle be physical in mf against them and it worked. That’s it.
Surely you don’t think this was a game for Ethan? We have to be more practical than that. I can accept an argument for Eze but again, he’s only been with us for a week. I also believe if we wanted to be defensive we wouldn’t have started Calafiori, who is attacking minded, and was up against Salah
Precisely. We could’ve started with Mosquera at right back and Timber at left back if we REALLY wanted to be defensive. But we didn’t.
We could have played 11 defenders if we REALLY wanted to be defensive. But we didn't. Just because there were more defensive options available doesn't mean the key selection decisions (at 10 and to an extent on the left) were conservative.
Martinelli wasn’t selected for his defensive contributions but to offer pace in behind a makeshift right back. The fact he also offers defensive stability isn’t the crucial factor here. I wanted him picked as our quickest player behind full backs who bomb on.
I think he's really good and he's our backup 10. We should trust him in that position when Odegaard is out. As for the LB choice, I think Myles has had a lot of major defensive lapses recently/second half of last season so I wouldn't say he's obviously the better defender.
Nobody said Myles. Timber with Mosquera at right back would’ve been an option.
It’s not about exaggerating. We wanted to be physical and picked a team for that, but reducing what we did to “four centre backs and three defensive midfielders” because it’s intentionally condescending. Calafiori isn’t a CB. Merino and Rice (the way we use them) are not DMs.
Exactly. We picked a team to be physical. But they’re deliberately making attacking players sound defensive because “physical” isn’t the narrative they want to sell (bc we’re still Arsenal who don’t like it up ‘em). Defensive is. So they flat out lie.
Chance Rice dropped a bit deeper to compensate for Saliba going off early?
Well I don't know the article you read so I can't speak for that but Merino and Rice are predominantly defensive/OOP players - I know we have dreams of Rice's attacking output exploding but it hasn't happened yet. Calafiori - sure. The "CB" jibe doesn't make sense with him.
OOP isn’t the same as defensive. This is the issue. People keep conflating a player being good off the ball as being defensive. They. Are. Not. The. Same.
They. Are. Not. Totally. Different. Either. Though. lol. There is clearly a relationship between strong OOP play and defence. It's why we're so good at not conceding - because of our exceptional press.
I take your point here (I think our primary objective was not losing, and that’s fine) but pressing in this context is an attacking move. Merino was there to press from the front, not to defend. And he did that well and it created attacking transitions.
I mean....we could have played 11 Big Gabis and we'd certainly get a lot of attacking transitions, but you still wouldn't call it an attacking move per se. But "our primary objective was not losing" and "were conservative" or "were defensive" are all broadly synonymous to me. Minor differences.
They’re not synonyms to me. And I guess that’s where we have an issue. So let’s just agree to disagree.
Sure, I don’t disagree on that point and I don’t think anyone sane does. I do think the mainstream media reaction (and thus all uninquisitive neutrals’) has been a bit weird as we played no less conservative a game than Liverpool but I am not overly arsed about it. Mental to call Merino a DM though.
Like…for one, he isn’t. And for two, he was very clearly playing 10. Granted not as an elegant ball player, but it’s like seeing a front two of Crouch and Defoe and calling Crouch a DM because he’s large and not good at passing.
I've not engaged with the mainstream reaction at all to be honest (which I strongly recommend). Personally I think, whether it's the right approach in general or not, our conservatism finally bit us on the arse this time. So I don't mind people saying that, even if they're not Arsenal fans.