You can believe in fighting against police impunity and reducing police violence while simultaneously recognizing that mass shootings and spree killings targeting law enforcement are a stupid goddamn idea that will rightfully get you killed yourself or thrown in prison for the rest of your life.
see up at the top of this you were making a strategic argument that it wasn't helpful to the cause. suddenly it's a moral argument and you think that people who do attack cops should be punished.
*fires off several fatal rounds* Sir, I implore you to stay still!”
So people don't have a right to defend themselves against state terror, then.
It's as simple as extrajudicial killing, like extrajudicial kidnapping, is an unlawful act. Vigilantism implies that the laws on the books have no legality, which is untrue. Support the lawyers and activists that are fighting the good fight and don't suborn law with extrajudicial justice.
Stop posting like this, who is this helping? What point do you think you’re making? Whatever you mean, it comes off as always as you telling victims to be the only ones dying.
Ok bootlicker.
I'm inclined to agree with you on this, but the deportations to El Salvador and South Sudan weigh heavily on me. I do feel like we have crossed a line. And SCOTUS has made legal resistance mostly meaningless
6 SCOTUS justices are still hiding behind procedural bullshit. That's no excuse for their cowardice and they're certainly not reliable allies of liberty. Neither have they caved on the merits... yet. Closest to a merits finding was the 9-0 ruling that govt can't ship ppl beyond reach of courts.
At this point I don't distinguish between procedural rulings and 'merits'. It's blindingly obvious that the procedural rulings are meant to give cover to lawless activity.
Consider this alternative: Procedural rulings are a way to kick the can down the road on confrontation between branches. Pathological avoidance seems almost childish and certainly cowardly. But many Cons have been avoidant and cowardly. They're waiting for a deus ex machina.
It's indefensible because lives hang in the balance. But factually they might be correct. What are the odds Trump dies or is incapacitated before they have to rule on merits? What are the odds Pres. Miller and nominal Pres. Trump have a falling out? etc.
Between the immunity ruling, the deportation rulings, the rulings from 2 weeks ago, and the one yesterday allowing the firings to proceed, I think the majority is fully on board. As to confrontation between the branches, the court has sided with the Executive over Congress every time. They want this
Best to be docile while we wait to be picked off one by one on flimsy or fabricated charges and locked up until we die in their labor camps.
Really putting the "Reich" in Reichlin-Melnick
I can’t believe this would need clarified, but then I also remember students defending AI-written papers because thinking for longer than a few seconds is ‘cap’
And absolutely none of that has to do with a random staffer at Prairieland, nor the responding cop who got shot in the neck.
Yes it does you fucking rat. These people are government agents literally kidnapping and torturing people. Fuck off.
There is no difference between the prison guard and the cop who shows up when someone attacks the camp.
Are there ethical dimensions to being a random staffer at Prarielands? Or the Everglades? Or on an Avelo plane? Is there truly a “random staffer” in any of these genuinely horrible spaces? They 100% do not in ANY world deserve extrajudicial killing. But they aren’t FORCED to do evil, either.
I think the attack was the wrong and evil in and of itself - and the person who perpetrated it made an evil choice. And I also believe that choosing to work in the prison industrial complex is choosing evil.
Why do you think violence by the oppressed against the oppressor is wrong? Is it wrong to kill the perpetrators of atrocity? Why? Who declared it so? Why? What does Jesus think? Why should anybody care?
it's not worth your time or energy to respond to these trolls.
I think what everyone is trying to say is that they're weaponizing our decency against us while they trample on our rights. Stop helping them.
Try not to let these keyboard radicals get to you—- they are deranged and inciting violence and eager for other people to cosplay as revolutionaries and have their lives destroyed by this administration. They’re channeling their anger with their own impotence to attack you.
My God. That account that encourages murdering police officers has 118.7K followers. I have no reason to believe that it's a fascist account pretending to be a Democrat, but, if it were, this is exactly what it would be posting.
What random staffer? Do you mean correctional officer?
yapping dog
Oh no a cop got shot that’s so sad, 😭😭😭😭😭
As @andreapitzer.bsky.social (who wrote a book on the subject) recently explained, a concentration camp is not a death camp. I urge you to read her post, which covers the history and explains why Auschwitz comparisons are wrong. degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/what-s-in-...
Imagine thinking this is a good hill to die on
hey Aaron, what was happening in Auschwitz from 9/1939 to 7/1941? Would you at least consider the fact that you might be like a German in say December of 1939 saying of Auschwitz "I know it looks bad but trust me guys now is not the time for resistance, not a lot of people are dying there"
The thing is @reichlinmelnick.bsky.social: Auschwitz was both. He was created as a concentration camp and the majority of the people Who perished there along It's plus-4-year running, perished because of the hard conditions.
Sobibor, Belzec, Chelmo and Treblinka were constructed as death camps under Operation Reynard - and they only funciona was to murder people sent there. Auschwitz was not. Diferently that those above, he was under the direct rule of the RSHA
give it a few years
It's not a death camp but it certainly looks like a concentration camp. The Nazis had 40,000 some camps of different varieties.
The first camp at Auschwitz was a detention center The 2nd one erected at Birkenau with gas chambers and crematoriums was built after the Nazis enacted the final solution during the war This mealy-mouthed semantic pedantry serves the purposes of fascism
Well if the name is the most important thing why don't we just name them "Freedom Waterpark Jamborees" and make the whole problem go away?
Auschwitz II was a death camp, I and III were work camps, no? Yes, while this regime is aping some of the early 3rd Reich playbook, it has not made the most egregious moves to disenfranchise people. That said, the ramp-up to the Holocaust was rapid, only spanning a fraction of the Nazi reign
People are dying there. Even if you want to be a pedantic child, this now meets the definition of a death camp.
No it doesn't. Death camp meant people *literally gassed to death* upon arrival. Important distinction. It is a concentration camp in my view tho.
Gas has fuck all to do with the definition. It is where people are sent to be killed. People are being sent there to be killed. The fact that you feel the need to Well Ackshually this situation is telling
Are you a fucking moron? Nazi "death camps" - Todeslager or Vernichtungslager -- exterminated people with poison gas.
Why are you so fucking focused on the means of extermination? Whether they are gassed (as you are so fond of) or if they are denied medical care so they die in detention, the result is the same: they are sent there to die. Fuck, centrists are the fucking WORST
Gassing people to death is extermination and is extremely bad. Not sure why I need to explain it to you like a 4 year old but here we are. p.s. I'm not a "centrist" you drooling tankie dumbfuck.
And yet your entire shitty little feed is you crying that Mamdani is too "radical" and that Chuck Schumer is a national hero. You are hyper-focused on the fact that they're not using gas. "It can't be a death camp! They're using different methods of extermination!" as if the distinction matters
No, I think Mamdani is a tankie moron who refused to endorse Kamala Harris and helped bring about Trump and concentration camps.
Nevermind, I just saw you are a BlueAnon wacko centrist. Keep normalizing death camps on US soil you fucking turnip
You're thoroughly ignorant and should crack open a book sometime, dumdum
I assure you I'm far more read than some centrist death camp apologist.
"I'm far more read" You mean far more well read? LMAO ok tankie
LMAO OK fascist sympathizer Keep talking about how much you love our death camps. Oh, sorry, "concentration camps" "in [your] view]" Go suck Schumer's dick a little while longer
Auschwitz was a concentration camp before it became a death camp.
Did you listen to yourself
I think it's fundamentally naive to think that these concentration camps are not going to be a source of very cheap labor. With a complicit scotus and congress we're just a few EOs away from it. Most of the German concentration camps were labor camps with death as a side benefit.
Very informative article. Thank you for posting it. It cleared a few things up for me. I hope people take the time to read it.
I agree that we aren’t there yet. I’m troubled by the thought that we’re going in that direction; the ball is very much in play with a lot of time still on the clock. Transparency in detention is declining. We could cross that line unaware. Fighting that is worth a lot. What’s effective?
Stalin’s gulags are to me a much better comparison because yes they were work camps but many people died there as a result.
True. Auschwitz was a death camp, not a concentration camp. But it's not like Nazis didn't build plenty of concentration camps as well. And it's not like concentration camps weren't just a stage before death camps came. If somebody is building concentration camps, no alarms raised are unjustified.
You are correct @reichlinmelnick.bsky.social There should be no comparison to the mass killings in the Vernichtungslager. On a side note, even the Nazis were afraid to operate Vernichtungslager on German soil.
In our short lives, our one trip spinning around the sun, I get so confused when otherwise good faith people choose to argue semantics over what to call prison camps
the Holocaust was initially labelled as "taking Jews east for resettlement" btw. this is the pedantic sort of bullshit you're trying to play ftr
I can't imagine disgracing the ancestors like that
Holy fuck are we still doing this "it's not really nazism unless they're wearing Hugo Boss and doing a goose-step"? Like holy fucking shit dude tell us more about how they need to be shoveling bodies into furnaces for you to realize what's going on!
It really has just dawned on me that we are taught there is a meaningful difference between "concentration camps" and death camps because oh wow wouldn't you know it: The U.S. has had its own secret concentration/death camps around the world for oof uh hmmm a long time now.
Fucking libs will spend so much time and energy playing semantic games before they will ever feel the desire to have any principles let alone a spine to just say what is obviously happening. You people are so fucking unless it borders on collaborating.
unless it comes to fighting the left, at which point they instantly become a well-oiled clockwork machine
So what's the plan?
I personally can't imagine witnessing the wide scale detention of "undesirables" into concentration camps and arguing with strangers online about semantics.
How many need to be in these camps, and how bad do the conditions need to be, to start calling for the removal of Trump and his administration? Or will you just quibble over words?
tbf, the last time the US did concentration camps (Executive Order 9066), they didn't become death camps. But they were still heinously wrong and a violation of the constitution. It was Reagan who finally apologised for the egregious excess perpetrated on innocent folk.
Your getting a lot of wild/fascists/murderous type responses on here. I was arguing with one guy about the Texas flood and he said the victims all deserved to die because they where in a red state…and how trump voters should be lined up and shot…pendulum certainly swings both way on social media
Weird thing to say on a post subtly defending concentration camps. Fix your heart.
The original post was him imploring people not to murder or advocate for the murder of ICE agents. He was also saying these detention centers, while terrible , are not the death camps of auschwitz…which is true. ….So I think my heart is fine on this one.
Nah, you are blind to both history and morality. Would you be upset at people arguing for the Nuremberg trials?
So lets get your positions clear. Are you saying these camps are the same as the death camps with Gas Chambers run by the Nazis ? And are you also saying violent ambushes against ICE, with intent to kill, is a good idea?
I'm saying that: 1: Making the distinction between these camps and the death camps is ridiculous when the end result is the same. 2: People angry about ICE shouldn't be addressed by downplaying the truth. No, people shouldn't talk about personally murdering ICE. It's bad opsec at the very least.
No it isn’t the same, unjust detention and intentional mass extermination are so very different. You would be better served comparing this mass dententionnto our governments mass internment of Japanese Americans during WW2. Horrible and unjust yes, but lacking the whole systematic murder part.
The U.S. "Justice" system does systemic murder to this day, and not just in camps. Just because it's not explicitly written for that to be the outcome doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So yes actually, the current camps, the death camps, and the Japanese internment camps all are considered equally bad.
this is online forever, now.
The Florida camp is halfway to a death camp; the heat and the insect-borne diseases will do a lot of the work. And what are they going to do when a hurricane comes through? Evacuate the camp safely and efficiently?
detention center apologist
mfer said “belsen is bad, but at least its better than auschwitz” bsky.app/profile/reic...
You work for a useless appendage of the democratic party that has failed to even get them to move away from Biden's border policy. Maybe sit the fuck down for a but.
bro’s name is really aaron reich
I don’t care and it doesn’t matter. people ARE DYING there right now and that will increase. These semantic games are a distraction from taking action for intellectuals. Pointless and absurd in the face of attempted genocide here and ongoing in Israel
Why are you worried about semantics when you should PROBABLY BE CONDEMNING THE RACIST AND HATEFUL BEHAVIOR THAT HAS LED UP TO THIS??? HUH??? THAT DOESN'T MATTER WHEN YOU'RE AT RISK OF BEING PUT IN THIS FUCKING SHIT
you lost the second "it's not technically a death camp" became your argument
Bodies are already turning up you fucking goons. Stop being apologists for this. The GOP literally just made the border patrol the largest federal law enforcement agency
It’s a death camp if they intend their detainees to die in it, and they clearly do.
I urge you to pull your head out of your ass.
The Holocaust started as a deportation program. It’s how it started.
OK, it's more of Dachau. Good catch! Do you really think it helps to fight authoritarianism when we discuss WHAT KIND of a concentration camp it is?
Use of extreme hyperbole makes it easier for Trumpers to dismiss concerns.
in a month are we gonna get a piece from you titled “it’s not tear gas, it’s pepper spray”?
If people die there as a result of being kidnapped and imprisoned unlawfully, it's a death camp.
there is a significant difference between concentration camps and death camps, even though people die at concentration camps. they're all bad! but we can still understand that different things are different levels of bad. www.theholocaustexplained.org/the-camps/ty...
I'm not going to split hairs where fascism is concerned. Everyone with a conscience and basic historical knowledge seems to get this.
Not so. A death camp is a place where organized mass murder takes place. It is where people are sent to be executed.
The government of the United States has already been sending people to CECOT. CECOT openly gloats about its role as a death camp that nobody leaves. Now we are building our own death camp where our own government is gloating that nobody will leave, or maybe potentially be fed to alligators.
CECOT is horrible but it is not a death camp. The Everglades camp is halfway there. The alligators aren't much of a threat, but the heat and disease-carrying mosquitoes are.
CECOT is 100% marketed as a death camp. People go there to die while in custody. Nobody markets actual prisons with prisoners dying due to the environment being so hostile, except maybe for Sheriff Arpaio. The threat of death being prioritized for largely non-violent occupants cannot be ignored.
Its not a deathcamp until it is lol The potential is so high for these camps to go from concentration -> death. People's lives are at stake and you're crying over semantics. Fucking dork.
Dachau wasn’t a death camp either. 32,000 people still fucking died there
You are correct, and it is vitally important for you to maintain a defense of unpopular reason & debunking in the face of fear and appeals to pathos. We MUST stick to facts. They are bad enough.
I fucking hate how libs like you keep making this post relevant. bsky.app/profile/auto...
wow really then what were concentration camps?
I've been fighting ICE abuses for years. The Prairieland Detention Center is a jail which has been in use for years. Conditions there are bad, but that badness is on a spectrum in line with conditions in private prisons housing non-immigration detainees, and likely better than federal prisons.
Hey Aaron quick question - would you say the fight is generally being won or lost with the way it's been fought up to now
I’m fully aware of your work, which honestly makes this thread all the more upsetting to read. Shame on you.
You make YouTube videos and post online. STFU
nothing wrong with doing those two things
And she does. Nothing else.
And what the fuck are you doing?
What do you do
She also doesn’t make excuses for modern day concentration camp workers which is pretty cool
You: "murdering cops is good, akshually" Holy shit, dufe.
that's right
Shut the fuck up.
dufe
you're confusing online posturing with doing literally anything
buddy, you're morally and intellectually equivalent to a Holocaust denier
Oh my god your stances just get fucking worse with each post.
How about we abolish the federal prisons and prosecute all the guards for those too?
Shes right, though. Youre defending the right for kidnapper Nazis to be safe at work Whats up with that?
sounds like the praireland detention center should not exist, to me
ICE has been expanding while you've been fighting it so I'm not really sure your approach is working
I think a lot of people have lost faith in our institutions so it's difficult for them to see how battling ICE in court will help anything at this point.
Would these be the private prisons where trannies are auctioned off to violent men to be sex toys against our will until we serve our time or die?
Thhpppt. Calvinball's correct. Trying to parse violent, racist thuggery to avoid some imaginary line of demarcation is... actually par for liberals, whose idea of history is *never right now.* It's always 150 years ago or ahead.
Aaron - you are doing heavy lifting hero work. ♥️ Ignore the noise of people who only want to criticize. It’s part of high anxiety state we’re being forced to live in.
still not beating the hypernormalizion allegations Aaron
Until recently federal prisons were the best funded ones in the country. I have personal experience in a state prison, it was literally hell but still infinitely better than anything I've heard from these private Nazi prisons
it’s been a concentration camp for years and you have been politely lawyering it. and it was not enough. You didn’t do enough.
Would you say things have gotten better or worse in recent years? Now that people have engaged with a problem they were largely ignoring and demanding things get better/more human/less fascist, why are you finger-wagging those joining the fight for people's rights?
wow maybe prisons should not exist
respectfully, whether one should make terroristic threats online has nothing to do with the badness of any particular DHS officer, detention center, etc. one should not make terroristic threats online because it will get you arrested and charged with a crime.
the moral value of the threat / incitement is a separate issue from the fact that its practically a very bad idea. i think your conflation of those two things is what most of your repliers are up in arms about.
Yeah I'm incredibly sympathetic to saying 'this is a very bad strategy' but 'all extralegal violence is bad even in retaliation against the state doing mass extralegal violence' seems far more harmful to me 🤷♂️
right. it seems conceivable, based on the historical view of events like the american revolution, harpers ferry, etc, that political violence may be called for in some instances. however, seeing as it is illegal to advocate it with specificity, people should avoid doing that in public! both are true
And you lost/are losing. You're doing great 👍
That was mean and I apologize
Absolutely delusional take. Resign if you're going to whitewash these vermin.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but again, conditions which have been bad for decades have not suddenly become comparable to Auschwitz just because Trump is in charge.
Aaron says not enough people died for him to consider a concentration camp bad yet. It's only killing the average amount of people.
Y'all remember when Hitler just gave up because of lawsuits? Yeah me neither
you seem to not know much about the holocaust at all for someone who scolds others for insulting its memory
I truly hope you can look past this need to argue the comparisons of what is and isn’t Auschwitz, and look at what you are normalizing here. Because Auschwitz wasn’t Auschwitz on day 1 either.
bsky.app/profile/thry...
…especially when the people involved openly take inspiration from that example
defending cops is not a good look. you should stop posting
I appreciate your work with immigrants, but I think you really need to reevaluate how you're coming across here. Because right now, it's coming across as pedantry and hurtful to members of the community.
Everyone: What did you do when the horrors were unfolding? Aaron: I policed peoples language.
The rhetoric of intransigence comes from all kinds of zealots. I appreciate you
"zealots" meaning people who oppose fascism?
Yes, some who oppose fascism are zealots
it's better to be a zealot than a collaborator
Yeah, how so?
"you oppose fascism too much!" every small bean a fascist
Thank you for the demonstration
why do you not oppose ethnic cleansing?
woooow i just said opposing fascism is bad and now i'm the bad guy? woooow
shut up cracker
I think you mean heretics. Those that question the divine truth of US exceptionalism.
with the caveat that death camps evolve from concentration camps, and trump/miller seem intent on tracing that same evolution it’s a little cart-before-the-horse but look what happened when the cart was behind the horse
do you just want to wait until they kill people? is that your metric?
He knows they kill us. The question seems to be what is the acceptable body count.
Always that. There’s always a magic number.
And it's always bigger than right now until it's too late even for them
I agree. It’s easy, but not accurate, to think Trump is responsible because we see him rounding up nonwhites and putting them in prisons.
"Calvinball Congress" has a trollish anonymous account. When I asked her what work she does, she blocked me. She also has a Youtube account where she posts videos of her spider hobby. She appears on camera but never gives her full real name. That account is only three months old. Beware, folks.
I'm sorry that you feel that preserving belief in US exceptionalism is more important than fighting fascism.
Thank you for being anchored to factual reality.
it can always get worse. there is never a limit to the horrors
These are keyboard revolutionaries
We have a mass deportation program not seen since Nazi Germany, with military in the streets rounding people up, putting them in camps. People are already starting to die in these camps and it’s only 6 months in. It took the US a decade until it said “ok this Holocaust stuff is bad”.
Really Johnny? Why don’t you look at my account and see what I’ve been posting on the topic before you make an enemy out of an ally. Or is that the whole point of your existence? To make people who oppose fascism hate each other? Is that why you’re here? Sure looks like it.
Oh wow you've posted and that proves you're on our side. Who's the keyboard revolutionary again?
Well then look in the mirror when calling other people keyboard revolutionaries. You are the one calling us names for pointing out America’s start of its own Holocaust.
Oh please dude. Go out and touch some grass and get over yourself. You’re really not all that.
None of this shit is about me. We got serious shit going on here and you idiots are like “maybe all this suffering and torture isn’t really all that bad, it’s not like Holocaust bad” Sorry you get called out on it.
Seems pretty ridiculous to accuse strangers of being "keyboard revolutionaries" and then when someone defends them, you turn around claiming to be an "ally"
I don’t see them as allies. But my whole reason for being on this site is to oppose fascism. There’s a line between arguing what the best way to do that is, and trashing people for not celebrating the shooting of cops. I’ll keep doing the former. I’ll leave the latter to the keyboard revolutionaries
No one is a keyboard revolutionary for saying the detainment, torture and death during our large scale deportations is comparable to the start of the Holocaust. The victims of the Holocaust would probably want their tragedy to be used as an example to prevent another one. Enough with the names.
So you're not actually an ally because you align your sympathy for murdered secret police. Do you not see how this makes you a hypocrite?
Or are they the next people to assault an ICE facility?
You're right. Dachau would be the more accurate comparison.
I think this is core of the conflation in popular culture with concentration camps and extermination camps. Both are crimes against humanity, but they’re different. Not that I support either. The Florida Concentration Camp is enough to secure Desantis, Trump, and Miller a room in The Hague.
nobody mentioned Trump but God damn does that say a lot about you and the kind of fight we can expect from your org under a Democratic admin
Reading your threads can be exhausting because I encounter so many people I feel compelled to block.
It's insane. And so many of them are malicious trolls. Look at their bios.
They are doing a mass deportation campaign with the largest paramilitary budget on the planet and putting people in cages and letting them die. Maybe you are just discovering that America is actually just a 2025 version of nazism and haven’t figured it out yet.
very shameful thread. you’re right about one thing: people should have put their bodies on the line to stop this years ago. The next best time is now.
The fact they built a goddamn concentration camp with an alligator moat within two months during this admin proves you wrong, man.
protip: it was still auschwitz when biden was in charge
have you been around the last couple months or were you in a coma
The difference is that now, there is no accountability, there is no due process. That means that anyone can be disappeared and killed or brutalized on a whim by the “staff”. You do see the difference, I hope?
The difference matters, compare and contrast. There are similarities. But if the difference is systematic mass murder, it’s a big difference. That said, what’s happening is too similar not to freak out. We know where this road leads.
JP are you one of those folks who say that what’s happening in Gaza isn’t a genocide?
Hell no. Gaza Humanitarian Foundation are US contractors shooting at civilians with the IDF. Our govt has emboldened ethnic cleansing there because they want it here. I’m pretty ignorant on Gaza but it’s very clear Israel govt wants to kill every man, woman and child.
Freaking out is OK. But going on a killing spree is a bad idea. It's counterproductive. It plays right into the fascists' hands.
Deliberate withholding of medical care is a form of systemic mass murder that has already been documented at these camps.
I agree. This regime plays games with laws and reality. The govt claim, callous but with smug pride-people die in custody all the time, we didn’t kill them. Homan already did this. We can’t prove (yet) they intend to kill people despite how clear it is that they want people to die.
I genuinely fail to see how the points I have argued here, which are: 1. Don't do mass shootings 2. Prairieland is not Auschwitz are normalizing anything the Trump admin is doing. Unless it's verboten normalization to explain that some problems have existed for decades and are systemic?
I’m think the point is to get ahead of these things before they become Auschwitz. Because waiting until they do to draw the comparison would be too late. And the current trajectory is really bad, and the speed is really REALLY bad.
Absolutely, but violence is only going to backfire. Wouldn't it make more sense to demand that the media cover these stories correctly, making the comparison to Auschwitz?
How do I do that, though?
Contact them. Protest them. Show them the public won't stand for their whitewashing of this fascist crap.
Well it's worked so well for the last 9 years let's just keep trying it I guess!
ITS A FUCKING COMCENTRATION CAMP, FEW PEOPLE ARE SAYING ITS AUSCHWITZ! Good god man. Fix yourself
You are now liking posts by white citizens accusing people who are standing up for immigrants of being trolls. What are you doing.
Free my people or be silent Aaron.
Guy is CRASHING
Seems like you're the Target du Jour of the Troll Army.
Come *on*, Aaron.
Lord have mercy.
I've "unliked" that post, but in response, I will also say come *on,* you cannot expect people to do a full deep dive on the account of every post they are considering spending half a second clicking like on.
Why on Earth would you like that in the first place.
c’mon guys how could he have known the ramblings of a moron were coming from an actual moron
I told you to be silent.
So since using violence against Nazis is off the table, what's the plan? They've got more money than the Marine Corps going forward, so what do we do to keep them from kidnapping people?
sometimes you just gotta indulge in a little qanon bullshit, in defense of your emotional support camps
No one's ever prepared to get dog piled online so I get it but slandering them for really innocuous comments is silly.
Tá difícil te defender Aaron!!!
Aaron. The way things are now could very easily degenerate into Auschwitz. *Will* degenerate, if the rhetoric the people in charge are using is to be believed. Are you going to wait until they do to draw the comparison, or are you going to try to get ahead of it before they do?
Jesus Christ, man. It'll be easy to say it once it's already ongoing, but it'd be better for all involved to not let it get to that point. How is this flying by you?
So your position is to do mass shootings?
I do not, in fact, hate waffles.
Well when they do then you claim they’re Auschwitz, but for now we’re not quite there yet. Pointless dooming doesn’t help.
As I see it, the problem is that the line is very murky and undefined between: 1. a rolling descent into authoritarianism demanding a political response and 2. Finally reaching the level of authoritarian repression that would demand a different kind of response outside of politics.
I think you’re trying to make a nuanced point about the counterproductivity of trying to take on ICE with guns and are facing backlash from anti-statists who are communicating imprecisely—but understandably so—from a place of anguish and despair.
Your first point is unambiguously correct; nobody should shoot at people. Your second point, I think, is semantic in a way that feels somewhat unhelpful (to some). viz., “is it really helpful to rap people’s knuckles to make sure they compare ICE detention centers to Dachau instead of Auschwitz?”
I think a bunch of folks here are mad at you because they think that the fact of us being in a situation where *either* of those analogies is pertinent is a desperate one, justifying desperate action, and that it’s weird hall-monitor behavior to be focused on the terminology.
I disagree with them, incidentally; I think now is exactly the right time to be intently focused on the history of concentration camps and precise in our understanding of their development both here and elsewhere, if we are to have any chance of reversing their longstanding presence.
But, as a political undesirable whose existence is simultaneously denied and overtly threatened by a state that is aggressively staking ever larger claims to its monopoly on violence, I am quite sympathetic to people who are freaking out right now. I do think that’s broadly who you’re dealing with.
"nobody should shoot at people." are you arguing for abolishing the military?
Sure
Good luck. I think the vast majority of people disagree there's never a time to shoot people though
Which is why you don’t argue with those people. They’ve given in to despair
To #2 What do you think Ochopee is? Auschwitz was like these places before it became an extermination camp, no? They fit the definition of a concentration camp don't they? Prisons house people who were at least given a semblance of due process (excluding the cash bail system).
Simple, it's because you have inaccurately summarized the points you've been arguing, lol
Dude can you read literally one history book? It always starts with walking people down the BS excuse making of "well he isn't doing anything new, well it was always a problem, well it isn't THAT bad yet", and then before you know it we're on the beaches for D-Day. This is a bad look, A.A. Ron.
it sounds like you genuinely dont believe trump is building upon the systemic violence and escalating it in a significant way
Hey Aaron, this thread looks exhausting as hell. Just want to say that you sound very reasonable and the people getting mad really don't seem to know any details. Please keep up the good work, you're an indispensable ally
The Nazis also began their 'work' with mass deportations.
And America has done several rounds of mass deportations throughout its history. If you want to compare the US to the Nazis, especially a specific action, you need more evidence than something just about every western power has done several times.
What mass shooting?
You’re a) believing the police narrative when they historically lie as often as Trump when it serves their purposes b) calling one injured a mass shooting c) claiming that what every other human with any credibility is calling a concentration camp is not a concentration camp Strange hill to die on
I can answer both of those. Objectively. 1. People are terrified because the largest cities in America are being occupied. The masked men and the military are working together to pull people off the street into a horrible game of keep away. Terrified people lash out.
2. Alligator Auschwitz is alliterative, but the closer comparison is to Dachau. ICE is blocking access to Congress on a regular basis. We know they aren't designed to be hard labor camps, but I'm not seeing a lot of information on conditions inside.
Historically, we (the public) didn't know how bad the camps were until they were liberated. I can understand people not wanting to wait around this time. Especially with the masked men, gleeful laughter of collaborators, and the game of keep away played by DHS.
Of course, we shouldn't encourage mass shootings, ambushes, or any other dumb, amateur moves like that. Not because collaborators need special consideration, just because they are dumb, amateur moves.
tl;dr The staff at those camps decide to work there. They decide to block Congress when they could let them in. ICE decides to wear masks. Those are all decisions. They are optional. We can decide that isn't okay and make working there untenable and socially unacceptable.
Just gonna say again: **instead of mass shootings**, the civil disobedience here should be encouraging/facilitating leaks. Our world is made of computers. All the horrifying illegal nonsense is documented in writing; that's why DOJ evaded discovery in KAG. Cockroaches hate sunlight.
Aaron i’d normally mock you at this point but you genuinely otherwise seem to be an alright dude, so I do recommend instead you step back for a few hours (minimum) and kind of think about this stuff and why it may have set so many people off. That’s all. Have a good day.
I am WAY more concerned that the mechanisms of mass deportation will be used for mass deportation than I am about what I believe to be a dramatically less likely outcome of literal Auschwitz.
The mass extermination of the holocaust followed a campaign of mass deportation that was too slow, costly, and logistically complex for the Nazis We've already gone off ine edge and stand at the precipice of something far worse. I'm not waiting to be certain we're going over that one to raise alarms
No one believed Auschwitz was real either until it was.
Like they have literally said that alligators will be fed 65 million meals. What else could they possibly be meaning.
Or maybe open a book and learn history..the alligator eating migrants isn't new and it all leads to the same place. jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/question/201...
"They" is Laura Loomer, who, yes, has power and influence, but is also a troll who says stuff to get attention and should not be treated as a voice of the U.S. government on these matters.
Again, the second part of your sentence is pedantry and dismissiveness of a very real problem in that she has the president's ear which you acknowledge. And it does nothing to fix the fact that 65 million latinx people have been targeted for murder.
Okay whatever Aaron I'll send you a letter from the camps
Fucking loser fascism downplaying rat.
Dismissing clear statements of intent as trolling is bad, actually. The way you stop that shit is you take every piece of Nazi rhetoric at face value as a thing the person saying it believes and you impose penalties. You guys started letting them pretend they didn't mean it and now we have
SHE LITERALLY HAS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IN HER CONTACTS ON SPEED DIAL! JFC
People like Laura Loomer have direct access to Trump, what are you TALKING about, Jesus Christ stop posting 🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴
You only get to say shit like this because you're a white citizen and this doesn't affect you You're being weird to immigrants and essentially dismissing them and in not so many words telling us that we're hysterical for believing the things those ghouls say
Aaron I do appreciate your work. Support you in every way. But listen to us! If social media was alive in the 1930s we wouldn't be here. Listen to us!! We feel the sea change in our bones!! History repeats itself!!
Then what's the point of all this lol
This would be a really sharp reply if not for the fact that the Nazis also started with deportations before moving on to murder camps. The Holocaust didn't start as the Holocaust, it became that over time.
I dunno, man. The writing is on the wall and not particularly hidden either. You can choose to see it or not.
Yeah but tbh I don’t think anyone sees the writing on the wall better than an immigration attorney. Like I might disagree with a characterization Aaron’s making here and there but the man spends all his time doing immigration cases.
He's incentivized by the system to preserve the system. Ultimately, what we ideally end up with is a world where he needs to find a new job because nobody needs a lawyer to move into a new home.
Don’t stop the boot from crushing your neck just ask it nicely to step off is not a winning strategy. Fighting back at this point is not sign holding with advanced notice and a permit
Have you considered that this may be a false flag? The attack was timed *perfectly* with the start of narratives on conservative media outlets which effectively serve as regime mouthpieces, eg. The Federalist, about how democrats want “blood” in re detention. I have yet to see real evidence of what
DHS claims in re the perps. Are we sure this wasn’t carried out by regime loyalists?
Hey man just a quick question, did the Nazis start with deportations? Yes or no?
Isn’t that his point? That we are where the Nazis began, not where they ended?
Shouldn't we stop things before they get there?
Yeah I just don’t think that Aaron, as an immigration attorney, is asking that we simply let the administration run roughshod over human rights. And while the rule of law holds—even as it bends cracks and weakens—you’re not going to see a lawyer promote extrajudicial killings.
Something something self deportation was a Nazi policy goal as well…
theonion.com/holocaust-su...
1. Aaron you don't seem to realize where normie dems are right now, its heads on pikes territory even guillotines. 2. Many of us feel that people like you have a failure of imagination of where this could head & arent taking it seriously enough. Ask women who were told we were hysterical about Roe.
3. If you think the rhetoric they are spewing cant or won't lead to genocide or that we as a country arent capable of it, I have a few history books you could read or maybe go speak to some people of color and their ancestors. 4. Most fascist dictatorships end in violence.
Example 987646647474 Fumigation?? Vermin language.... they are normalizing ALL OF IT! bsky.app/profile/atru...
The mechanisms are LITERALLY the same, with all the Prairielands underneath Auschwitz doing their part to make it all happen, JFC. If you won't listen to us, maybe take it from Robert, he may know a thing or two about how governments good and bad operate: bsky.app/profile/rbre...
MASS DEPORTATION WAS THE INITIAL GOAL OF CONCENTRATION CAMPS. Jesus fucking christ. How can you be so fucking dense while understanding that we have used prisons for slave labor and are literally now ramping up to have these be labor camps too. Its an explicitly stated goal of theirs
Does it seem more reasonable that a ramped up ICE operation scooping up hundreds of thousands of people will efficiently deport them to other countries where they will not be subjected to similar detention, or that tens of thousands will die in these camps on US and foreign soil?
The stated goal is all 20 million people and others. Auschwitz became Auschwitz because not only could they not mass deport all the Jews, they were having trouble keeping them alive (sounds familiar). They still had their ethnic cleansing goals with no money for new camps, so they killed them.
Dude they already funded and built the camps and they are filling them now. You don't really believe they intend to deport more people than they will imprison and eventually murder. You want to be careful and not cause your readership to panic. Unfortunately that's not the right response anymore.
I am genuinely struggling to understand what you even mean in this context. I work for an organization that believes that immigration detention is unnecessary and should not be used! Shooting up a random detention center doesn't free anyone.
Aaron - I appreciate your reporting and the work you do, but what is the line for you when it comes to these camps/centers and I’m not just referring to Prarieland. Is your thinking to get out of this through the courts and legislation? If so, it’s not working and never has worked.
They're a lawyer and are advising people in the way a lawyer should.
You say that like I don't know that or that I should care
So maybe try to explain what you actually mean and why you disagree with me substantively? Or are you just going to keep offering cryptic comments?
Your ego is what is holding you back. I am not going to argue against you like you're SCOTUS. My family's dignity isn't up for debate.
I’m having issues with my empathy Please wait for a moment of emotional regulation
Yeah, maybe I’d feel differently if they had like brought a division and broke everyone out. But they didn’t. They just shot a guy.
yeah be nice to the secret police instead! kill them with kindness and they'll surely stop actively participating in fascism
Nope
hey can you figure out how to deeply disagree with a person without fedjacketing them
I actually think it’s a bot but potayto potahto
Silence white boy
airhead
Shut up worm
Then be silent.
shut up!
has that worked? do we have more or fewer concentration camps and people in them than when you started? how much more news coverage will violence get than your assured-to-fail liberal legal fantasies?
I’m sure you are
I have been elbow deep in the writing on the wall for years and I have come to a different conclusion than you. As noted, my primary and motivating concern at this moment is that the mass deportation machine will function to carry out mass deportations, and will be fighting that first and foremost.
You can do that and still keep your extremely poorly considered takes to yourself.
Just remember, all these bullshit resist accounts, suggesting violence is necessary, aren't doing any violence themselves. Its bullshit bait. They are not helping.
You're losing
Aaron needs to know that if the Holocaust victims were still alive they would not be like “how dare you invoke my suffering to compare it to similar suffering of others, my oppression and torture is unique to me!”
Members of the Republican Party have said things like the alligators will be fed 65 million meals. You can turn a blind eye to that if you want, but they're not being subtle about what they want this project to become. People are fighting that because that's what they're clearly threatening.
And because I know what you'll reply with: If you think what she has to say can be disregarded, you're shortsighted. Rewind the clock 10 years and the things Trump supporters said could also be disregarded as empty trolling. These people want power and they have a project to get it.
"How dare you tell me not to firebomb a Walmart!"
okay, so you think things will stop at mass deportations, which must not be opposed violently. you believe that ethnic cleansing necessitates nothing more than civil disobedience. whatever issues you have been elbow deep in, you have come out on the side of normalizing and accepting them.
The former. Ask anyone paying attention to what's happening with ICE flights. Deportations are up dramatically (without widespread "similar detention"). Deaths in ICE detention WILL rise as detention rises. I've been screaming about it for months. But that is a far cry from Nazi-style death camps.
The United States rule of law is being destabilized by the federal government. The legislature, the executive branch and the judiciary. US Federal Institutions aren’t trusted anymore. The media isn’t trusted. None of this is good.
To be fair, the Nazi-style death camps didn't start out as Nazi-style death camps. They worked their way up to that designation.
lol of all the shit we implore people not to violently resist against; i'm struggling to understand how this reached anywhere near the top of ur list.
resist.bot/petitions/PZ...
The Nazis didn't start with death camps either. First came the deportations, alongside ghettoization and "temporary" camps. Then the camps became permanent concentration camps as they simply could not deport enough people fast enough. Only after some time, as the camps filled to bursting and the
so the difference is time
Can I ask what you think you're accomplishing by scolding people for making a perhaps semantically flawed but obviously justified and correct comparison to Nazi concentration camps as a way to make a point about the level of danger and crisis our society is in
deportation is literally how the Nazis started things. the camps weren’t in Germany
“just wait guys, the comparisons that you’re making aren’t accurate yet so I have to shame you for accurately assessing that these detentions centers will indeed deteriorate to circumstances comparable to Auschwitz’s soon but not yet!”
I think you might have to acknowledge that BSky also has its crazies like X that are not worth taking seriously. You cannot reason yourself into calling for murder, and I doubt you can reason these people out of these positions. Thank you for the work you do and for the reliable info you provide.
It might be worthwhile, to acknowledge that deportation detention centers are a starting point that is consistent with what lead to the holocaust. And, then explain we still have agency to prevent that. But, I have to assume you started there and are now frustrated. Carry on.
Is it really such a far cry from nazi style death camps just because we're not aware of many deaths happening yet? More people are dying than we're being told about. People held in overcrowded, unsanitary conditions without adequate food or water and no access to their meds tend to die.
We had victories! Biden ended family detention! Interior enforcement was down dramatically under Biden and he closed a number of the worst and most seriously abusive detention centers. And local advocates have had enormous successes over the last decade. But Trump won and we're all suffering.
Would you push back against people referring to it as Dachau instead? I agree that Auschwitz is pushing it but Americans are ignorant and the semantic argument will fall flat on many ears.
