The current controversies reveal weaknesses in the clarity of our Community Guidelines and failures in our communications. This has led to understandable confusion about how we interpret our guidelines. We need to be more transparent – without revealing to bad actors how to circumvent our systems.
They’re being circumvented pretty blatantly right now and you seem disinterested in protecting much of the existing user base
THIS ONE IS EXTRA FUNNY BECAUSE A BAD ACTOR ALREADY HAS CIRCUMVENTED YOUR FUCKING MODERATION SYSTEMS WITH YOUR HELP, AND YOU'RE REWRITING THE TOS TO FUCK OVER AN ENTIRE MINORITY, AGAIN! this truly is a comedy in the greek style.
You need to hire a Trust and Safety guy who isn't pro-noncing is what you need to do pal
Amazing how someone on your staff is too stupid to realize how the last sentence of that post ignores the first sentence of this post. bsky.app/profile/safe...
you have a large group of users who do not feel safe when there are accounts here who exist only to trash and intimidate them. Trans people are extremely vulnerable right now. I can see why they might want to leave here if accounts are allowed to attack and demean them.
You did just reveal to them how to circumvent your systems...oops.
As @mmasnick.bsky.social says: Content moderation at scale is impossible to do well
A pretty solid litmus test as to whether your rule changes are good or bad for the community is whether "bad actors" are going to celebrate them - and I guarantee this is all great news for the worst people online
Spoiler alert: They figured it out.
"We can't let bad actors know how to circumvent our systems" *proceeds to tell all the bad actors they just have to organize their harassment off-site and you'll do nothing*
Bad actors already know how to circumvent your systems. They’re already doing it. They’re already using it to harass users on your platform by planning it elsewhere and bringing it here You’re telling them how to do it right in these posts
so, brigading a dogpile by quoting Bluesky posts on X is a-ok? violate community guidelines all you please, as long as you keep it off this app? the weakness isn't in your clarity. the failure is not in your communications. you should ban someone who boasts of destroying what you've built.
This thread literally tells bad actors how to circumvent your systems and you don't even realize it. You are so fucking bad at this.
No, they do realize it. Thats a feature to them, not a bug.
consider: maybe they do know this, and this thread is their way of advertising to the libsoftiktok of the world
They did ban LOTT, which is what makes this so fucking confusing! They know how to do this if they want to! They just...don't, I guess?
an entirely different possibility leading inevitably to the same exact conclusion
So, when somebody coordinates attacks on this platform, while using another platform to organize, that doesn't count?
gosh, that doesn't sound likely! Who on the internet uses more than one website????
it's possible to both have general guidelines and also to keep a ban list. you don't need to make up rules to justify it.
Bad actors seem to be circumventing your systems easily already.
This is fucking embarrassing
You might as well be catering your "guidelines" to protecting serial harassers and pedophile-apologists like @jessesingal.com
How does one volunteer?
you did just tell EVERYONE how to circumvent your systems. Your Community Guidelines and your interpretation thereof is objectively bad and you should feel bad.
The problem is outcomes, not clarity!
What you're saying is the ppl coming in who are transphobic bigots bring revenue and strengthen your business, so you have decided decency, in the face of potential money, doesn't matter. That is your decision. Fine, but you now have to own that you care more abt money than human lives.
Sadly, this will affect employees as well, because if you're willing to support transphobia for money, you'll be willing to support all sorts of horrible things. Racism will be okay. Misogyny. All sorts of bigotry. It saddens me but I guess ethics don't matter to some ppl at all.
Perhaps social media is a failed experiment. In the end, it tends toward "anything for money," but it's just a sad situation to watch you pretend you don't understand the problem. Why lie? Just say "Our money matters more than the comfort or safety of trans ppl or anyone else." Honesty is best.
I mean, it's not like we don't realize the truth. Just be honest. Within a few years, this will be X2, w/so bots and nasty ugly ppl, a giant well of suck. Your lack of ethical boundaries in the face of money will ruin things soon enough.
Weird because you clearly laid out how to circumvent in the rest of the thread
You guys are fumbling this so badly.
The guy in question here has straight up stated he intends to fuck with an entire demographic of people on this site. Just fucking tell the trans people here you don't give a shit and let them move on you dipshits.
Sniveling cowards
Fuck you.
Just ban bigots. That’s it. I don’t need more information than that.
I don’t know how to explain to you that Jessie Singal, a bigot, a peadophile, who hounds people both online and offline, who has broken ToS from the moment he arrived, is a bad actor I give up
This really sucks. And no, it’s not a communication issue. It’s a fundamental failure to follow your own stated rules and ultimately protect this community against obvious aggressors. Who is this for???
Elon? Is that you?
Maybe you should worry about making a system the bad actors have to circumvent first. Because right now they're just openly posting on the site while you insist they're doing nothing wrong, despite what everyone can plainly see.
Are you really trying to pull a Security Through Obscurity on fucking safety for your users? That doesn't EVER work. Just lay down some laws and be real strict assholes about enforcing them.
Refusing to act is a choice, and one that reflects poorly on the values of @safety.bsky.app members. Cowardice , greed, or callous indifference to suffering? None of them are values to be proud of.
Bad actors can't circumvent systems where humans made final decisions, not computers and protocols. Intuition can guide you a little bit of whether something should be allowed.
So initially you thought "Jеssе Signаl" was an impersonator account, and you suspended it, but once you realized he is really the transphobe who he says he is - you reinstated him.
They got so many reports that just assumed he was being reported for being a fake account Because what other reason would there be, apparently
Safety through secrecy
that’s so stupid just ban singal
That taste in your mouth you don't like is shoe polish. This was a no brainer, but you guys really hurried to bend over to that guy. The trust and safety team was completely unprepared for the arrival of one known bad actor with a toxic rep and no following so you built a policy carve-out castle.
The problem is not that people have misunderstood the situation here. Insisting that you cannot possibly have done anything wrong here will only drive distrust and disengagement.
bsky.app/profile/cono...
Ban Singal and all his supporters or resign! You have no place or right to be in your position if you can't ban an obvious transphobic pedophile apologist! Coddling facists and bigots are what made Twitter go to hell and become a breeding ground for misinfo. Stop repeating the same mistake!
This is false, the current controversies isn’t about lack of clarity, it’s about lack of initiative. Instead of banning a known bad actor, you are bending over backwards to justify keeping him around, even when he actually breaks the site’s rules. Clarity isn’t gonna solve this.
“The current controversies” is doing some heavy freaking work here What’s the controversy? That you’re protecting a know harassment inciter and pedophile apologist while tens of thousands of your most loyal, long time users are telling you what you should have done a week ago? Ban Jesse Singal.
you -- right now -- are giving them the exact blueprint for how to circumvent your systems. You fucking engineering-minded people who scoff at the very idea of the social sciences are now in charge of a communications platform connecting millions and are falling prey to the MOST OBVIOUS PITFALLS
Blah blah blah get rid of him or people are gonna bail.
Ban Jesse Singal. It's not hard.
This ⬆️ The majority of transfer from Twitter came from people seeking safety away from transphobic abuse and the people that encourage it.
Bad actors already know how to circumvent your systems, obviously. They just whine and you let them stay. So why should I?
well said - keep up the good work - with you all the way X
Seems like the way bad actors can circumvent your systems is just by signing up for an account and existing. You can ban one person and show you actually care, this is not hard.
It reveals failures in your willingness to uphold them equally to all users. They're fairly clear. You're just having a question of confidence because of one transphobic trouble maker.
you’re allowing one such bad actor to take advantage right now
“controversies” it’s not a confusion or weakness in your community guidelines. it’s bluesky refusing to apply them to a serial harasser bc you want the clicks and attention he brings
hey maybe you can change your name to be Bluesky Community Guidelines instead of Bluesky Safety to avoid false advertising laws
And yet throughout this post you give them several ways to bypass your systems, from posting their abuse to other sites to using screenshots. These are literally the sort of things bad actors use to circumvent community guidelines to harass people. So step 1 to improving your guidelines: Stop that.
So it is OK for a person to support and help neonazis, pedophiles, serial harasser/stalkers and death threat sending sites like 8chan and kiwifarms as long as they claim to be a liberal journalist as long as it's off site and they play stupid?
You could just, you know. Remove the bad actors instead of reinstating their accounts.
What controversies? Hey bsky what current controversies? Anyway forget ever getting money from me, and I'll encourage others to never pay as well
do you seriously think anybody buys this shit
The majority of your new user base came from people seeking a place away from abusive people in positions of power. Protect them first and utmost. Dont allow known abusers in your space.
What you need to do is keep out people whose presence here puts others at risk. If you tolerate arseholes and bullies, eventually all you'll be left with will be arseholes and bullies. How is it that people running online forums in 2024 still need to be told this?
You're not supposed to comply in advance, hope that helps
The leaks are coming from inside the thread... How is this not giving up the game? bsky.app/profile/safe...
Your words here mean you are okay with a nazi who himself is describing his presence here as colonizing the website, being the foot in the door that allows other nazis to show up and harm people the same way he does under the excuse that you allowed him to. He IS violating ToS, you just endorse it
Rules have to be 100% transparent. Thinking by hiding you will get more chances to do good is dumb. Look at open source the only secure way to make things over time. But yea that mean own your shit
You are currently "interpreting" those guidelines to protect a known bad faith arsehole.
Guess what? They already know how. This is happening flagrantly and, what’s more, you are plenty aware of someone doing that. It’s why this discussion is happening. Right now, this moment, people do not feel safe. They are not trusting the service. This is your job, and you are failing at it.
They don't need to circumvent anything if you won't take action against them in the first place.
Or just ban shitty people so the rest of us can be here in peace.
One problem is you interpret your guidelines like the FBI reviewed open plans for a mass attack 4 years ago. Nothing but endless tiny narrow "not technically..." decisions with no will to see the larger plot someone with bad history is openly declaring and leading. bsky.app/profile/ryan...
Our growing moderation team needs clear evidence and well-defined rules to make decisions that can be consistently enforced, so they action accounts based primarily on content and behavior that appears in our app, where the context and authenticity can be directly verified.
Grow a damn spine!
Now I recognize I'm not the target of this harassment that's been happening but I personally feel like the responses here are blowing things out of proportion, rather than calling for mass bans we should be asking for better tools to distance ourselves from bad actors on the site/app
I'm thinking something along the lines of either an auto tag system that'll brand accounts that primarily spread hate or a simple blacklist function for all accounts where you can set what words or phrases are unacceptable in your interactions
Oh good, I assume his announced, explicit intent to come here to harass trans users is clear cut grounds to ban him then!
Why do you refuse to take action against accounts based on behavior outside of Bluesky? If the behavior is “we want to ruin Bluesky for trans folks,” why is that not enough? Who exactly is making these decisions and what is the process for considering changes to it and listening to community input?
It's this part that seems particularly absurd. Would you allow Alex Jones onto the site? How about Nick Fuentes? There's no moral virtue in pretending that we can't know how someone will behave if they haven't done it on a particular site. It's an open door to bad actors.
Not a great limit to set for yourself when organizing off-app is so *incredibly* easy. This should really be re-thougnt
You have clear evidence. You do nothing because you have no integrity.
This is weak sauce. You have plenty of ability to examine context and authenticity elsewhere too, and it's not clear why you are going to tie your hands behind your back and ignore the data lying at your feet. Sad & preposterously self-blinding view of context & behavior. Take off the blinders yo.
You just said *primarily* based on outside behaviors, but two posts up you were saying you completely ignore outside behavior & context. Which I hope to hell isn't true. bsky.app/profile/safe...
Ya'll need to have some backbone & willingness to do more than posture behind rulemaking, let shitty people push limits & degrade the network right up to breaking points. Take a stance to protect the network. Widely. Like GitHub. (Who uses outside context a lot!) bsky.app/profile/nsqe...
So disappointing to see ya'll so rapidly declaring yourselves bound up in yellow tape & unable to do good, unwilling to lift a finger to prevent this network from becoming a mass tool for abuse. Please don't let this network burn.
So publicly organizing with an infamous suicide bait website that does this exact thing doesn't meet this rubric, gotcha.
Make me a moderator. I will make the decisions your team is too paralyzed or inexperienced to make, and I will always put first the health of the website and those users who are its soul. I won't let squirmy press-release language cloud my judgment when a tumor begins to grow; I'll handle it.
Make this rule zero. When a well-known public figure repeatedly makes statements that would violate your TOS repeatedly in other media, ban that person's account on Bluesky, even if they technically behave here. They are a bad actor spreading toxic ideologies and causing harm.
In other words if someone spends their whole bsky account writing Nazi propoganda, it's okay so long as it's only linked to from an external site? Get fucking real.
Poltroons.
this is not the way. so in effect, you're saying that if a person is in court but committed their crimes outside the court their behavior outside the court doesn't count? or a CEO who is above board on the job, but is absolutely skimming money or spending it on hookers & blow, that's OK? SMDH
Oh, so you’re gonna learn the hard way I see
All this for Jesse fucking Singal, the most blocked person ever. Just ban him!
Grow a good damn spine
You can ban whoever you like. If you let one Nazi^Wstochastic terrorist stay, you're a stochastic terrorist website.
Can't believe you're actually siding with the fucking "I'm not actually touching you" defense.
I was aware severance was getting another season but I wasn't aware it was in charge of blue Sky. So as long as my outie loads the gun points it and pulls the trigger it's okay as long as my innie doesn't have the bullet on-site
quit and give this position to someone who actually gives a shit dude
This sucks because I've had people from off site sources who actively come here from kiwifarms to harass trans people including me just for posting in the transgender hashtag. All of them have the same banner and name, but only some have stuff that would get them banned based on your current terms.
Is there no preventative care in y'alls moderation? I came here because I was told it was safe.. but if I have to wait to be a victim publically before you guys will act on it, i have more concerns than comfort.
It's totally good and cool to enforce TOS and not accede to bad actors who have explicitly said they are here to make things bad. You can choose to support your userbase, it's actually great business.
You all need to eat shit then.
pathetic
Bad faith actors are ALWAYS going to push the boundaries of your rules and get off to watching you and the community flail in response. It’s their whole reason for existing. You are NEVER going to have a perfect set of unequivocal rules that they won’t test and twist. Just fucking ban them.
So you basically want to go the way of twitter :( And here I thought it was worth my time to join here :(
This directly contradicts the previous skeet.
This is what the trolls take advantage of. If it writes like a troll and types like a troll, it’s probably a troll.
Offsite activity is the primary method people use for organizing harassment campaigns! You don't need to be a social media expert to understand that.
Cowards
Yeah… no, person in question is a bad faith actor and behaviour right here calls for enforcement of your rules
There was clear evidence, and you know there was. You've betrayed your entire marginalized userbase, who are the drivers of your platform. This is embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You had a decade-long case study on the consequences and still said yes. Trust & Safety has failed.
These aren't just accounts. They're people.
I guess transphobic behavior is fine with you now.
Why is not a well-defined rule that any top-20(or so) blocked account on bsky is worth examining more closely than those that are not?
Seems like that would be an easily abused rule, though? That would be very susceptible to Gamergate-style dogpiling to get innocuous accounts in trouble. Plus people block for some all kinds of random reasons. Last top 20~ list I saw included the President of Brazil and a Brazilian football team.
This is not saying "you're in the top-20, let's ban you" — it is saying "if you're in the top-20, maybe it is in bsky's interests to look at why you're in the top-20."
Except “in the top 20” is such a wildly random metric. And people would game it. Could MAYBE be a mod factor? But it also sounds like a potential moderation nightmare TBH (But I don’t have any brilliant moderation solutions, either. Any tricks I can think of, I can also think of ways to abuse them)
If folks are looking for a queer friendly space that won't be so cowardly when it comes to moderation like this, consider Fourth Place Forum. Here is our statement on this situation. bsky.app/profile/four...
The clear evidence has happened elsewhere. He's indicating his intents for this site, offsite. Use that. It's valid justification. Literally every employer uses these same sorts of criteria when deciding who to hire. You don't hire someone with a problematic past and who has said they will continue.
So, don't let someone be a member under the same circumstances...
I should like to apply for the moderation team. How would I do that? I am 60 year old college educated, former military, moderate with empathy for minorities that have been traditionally disenfranchised by our system. Life experience should be worth something in this role, meaning I don’t over react
this post is grosssss please pay attention
stupid, stupid, stupid
Cowards
Transphobic ppl who come here to hurt and harass trans ppl shld be more than enough for you to kick them out. Just stop. This is just insulting to everyone to read this doublespeak.
You can't be robots. You need people who are aware of dogwhistles and will take action on accounts who skirt by your rules using them.
"Primarily"? Then do some fucking secondary stuff
Oh, good, so Singal, with copious evidence of both bad faith behavior and breaking TOS, will be banned forthwith?
Fuck you.
Meanwhile you ban every Palestinian from Gaza without any hesitation or due process.
We've spent the last year singing your praises and this is what we get in response?
You don't actually have to apply moderation "consistently" when dealing with known bad actors. That's stupid.
Youve laid out exactly how bad actors can dodge punishment, and you've made it too easy, all they need to do is to go off site, you understand how easy that is right? How simple it is for someone with a platform to snap a screenshot, go to their nazi bar of a site and say "get her offline by anyway"
hi bsky safety just shooting my shot i have an extensive history writing rulesets for inclusive spaces with references both personal and professional for my character and my expertise over the last 6+ years. would be proud to consult for y'all!
Pull your heads out of your asses and ban the fucker already. All this is doing is making you look bad.
when this site dies because you let it go the same way as xitter this will be an appropriately empty epitaph
So very very publically and proudly doxxing trans kids on twitter and using his journalism to also doxx and harass trans children. That doesnt count bc you can ""verify"" it was jesse singal. Real interesting
Clear evidence doesn't include a man's words, actions, deeds, and op ed pieces apparently
Oh fuck off. If you want to KEEP this massive influx of new users you got, you need to do better.
You fucked up.
I mean…just ban Jesse Singal and shut the fuck up about it? I don’t know.
so you're just gonna let the trans people that fled here to escape nazi harassment.....just get harassed again literally fuck you
You could also just check the other website to verify authenticity of screen shots, just FYI, if you hadn’t considered.
Actually you can just ban him, you own the fucking site, you can do what you want. Also there's ample evidence, so fuck you.
Yes, there's a big grey area of rule-based moderation, but Jesse Singal is not in that area! He is a known problem and you don't have to pretend like you don't know that! Just get rid of him!
So basically pedophilia, transphobia and racism aka antiblackness here are okay cause the user makes your site money? Is that what’s happening here?
Hmmmmm....where has this happened before?
there's literally an entire Internet that you can take a brief glance at and see this person is pure evil it is not that hard just say your sponsors or whatever like this awful man and you don't want to ban him or whatever you actually mean or shut up
"Just accept what my timeline is saying and ignore any potential counterarguments" God I hate the way this shit is done. There's some that include some evidence that Singal has done bad journalism, and not one I've seen shows any convincing sign he's actually "Evil".
BlueSky is so based for saying "Not convinced yet give us actual evidence"
so encouraging harassment of trans people, racism, pedophilic support, and multiple other disgusting shit isn’t proof that he’s a horrible person??
I've never actually been convinced any of these actually happened. When I've been shown evidence it's always been fairly bad (although there's one thread I haven't gone through yet that might change the trend - can't know until I go through it.)
There's been so many times when the "Confirmed Community Bad Guy" has turned out to not actually be like that if you can put down the rage of all your friends for a second that I'm done with "Just accept it". And it's hard to believe "THIS is the bit of evidence that will prove it's all true".
This is exactly the shit that makes people hate leftists lol.
bc we don’t want read what a kiwifarm lover support has to say?
No, because you made up the idea that I'm a kiwi lover to justify not reading anything I read. Or do you mean Jesse Singal? That seems made up too. Here's *one* tweet from Jesse that's at the top of the google search, and here's kiwi users unhappy with Jesse about it in the replies.
This kind of sounds like regular Florida, offense intended. Just because you’re willfully blind to the opinions of tens of thousands of primary sources doesn’t make them not exist.
Every time I've been presented the primary sources they haven't agreed with what people were saying it said. It's hard to believe that the 201st example is gonna be the one that suddenly makes it real. I guess I can't rule it out.
go lick my ass and balls bsky.app/profile/jess...
You can't sell an approach to moderation that favours the right to users who left other sites to escape it.
So as long as the brigading campaigns are conducted off-site, you're good?
This is going to kill this website. Rules lawyering by bad faith actors invariably turns forums into cesspools unless it's aggressively stamped out. Do you want this site usable or do you want it to be a harassment engine by a guy whose whole business model is based on bad faith harassment?
Man just nuke the bigot.
Binary decisions (discrete rules with no flexibility) cannot solve nuanced situations. Moderation has to come from a human and empathetic place. The fact that the team thinks a ToS change is all that's necessary is astounding and shows just how little experience the team has in content moderation.
You were inundated with evidence re: Singal.
Guys, this sucks. You know the guy has harmful intent. Get him out of here. We don't want him.
bluesky, I like your platform. you need to kick the Nazis who are explicitly here to say slurs and make minorities uncomfortable off your platform or you will not survive.
Every rule has a rationale, a goal completely separate from the simplistic logic and the bare verbiage of that rule. Ultimately, the rules serve the rationale. Flexibility is a strength. You're a private company. Feel free to enforce your values. Y'all have done great so far. We trust you.
In the US, courts sit in both law and equity. Unjust enrichment, unconscionability, estoppel, necessity, these are all value judgments. I hope you allow your own company to sit in equity, to make decisions based on overriding moral values, even when the letter of your rule would say otherwise.
Or, hear me out, when someone is being a shithead, you just ban them. Even if they scream and cry. Bad actors are creative about being shitty and love to do rhetorical dances to make you seem bad for banning them. Just don't play their game.
IOW, horrible harmful reputations aren't part of your safety decisions.
It doesn't tho. The best moderation is always rules + spirit of rules.
How are things with lists used on bad faith? It's been weeks since the owner of a revenge porn website has been making fake m4ga/f4scist lists to mass-block and harass users, and we can't leave the list nor the reports seem to have resulted in anything at all. Why give him a platform?
Oh cool we got Twitter #2 here. Anyone know another platform that doesn't require 100 hoops to jump through to remove a clearly rule breaking account?
Harassing someone off here isn't clear enough for you?
just admit you're fine with paedophiles and nazis so long as they're rich and prominent enough
"As long as hitler screams at jewish people on twitter then its fine" Safety continues to be a myth. Kick all nazis out regardless if theyve posted or not. Am I clear?
This just sounds like, “we can’t ban Hitler, he only posts about his art and vegan recipes.” If your argument is _but that’s different_, then you can ban for outside actions, then we are just negotiating where that line should be.
Screen shots of people threatening to call in kiwi farms, seems like way more than enough. You seem extremely weak here and will lose the momentum you have been gaining. Extremely disappointing
If a bad actor comes to exploit your system to spread hatred, and you have thousands of people blocking and reporting them but to no avail, it causes a crisis amongst your community like you're diverging away from your re-established rules. Off platform behavior should matter too. Ban Jess Singal 🤷
You mention in your general prohibitions that encouraging others is against the rules. Jesse Singal dog piling off platform should matter. Why would you allow someone whose entire brand is hate and division on your platform? Why would you go against the majority of your community to do this? Weird..
Honestly I can see why people would consider leaving. You have a great thing here. It's just sad you'll go to such lengths for one hateful loser who openly shits on your platform and business over your own community. Seems the bad elements are in your moderation team so maybe start there
This is the most painfully ass-backwards take I've ever seen from a moderation team. It's entirely gutless and ignores an enormous amount of tos-breaking behavior that has already been posted by Signal. I look forward to the avalanche of i-told-you-so's when this eventually turns into a problem.
You have server logs of all interactions on the platform.
This is a lot of words to say you're weak and pathetic and don't care at all about protecting all the queer people that made this app take off in the first place
The person that you're vaguely defending here is part of a small loosely defined group I'd refer to as Pieces of Sh*t. Singal and his goons do nothing but poison whatever well they find themselves in. They're here on this platform BECAUSE it is seen as a somewhat safe spot for transgender people.
ban Jesse Singal
You don't seem to need a lot of evidence when you're banning Palestinians.
You really need to take a stand here, either be blind to the issue or take action as human. You know as well as us that we as the users can leave anytime for moral reasons, hell look back three months ago? Get a spine and do the right thing
So you guys are cool with targeted harassment as long as the mastermind who's clearly here does the targeting from a third party website ? That's genuinely messed up.
if the choices you make are in favor of abuse I will not be on this platform anymore
do you not have a rule against humouring people who explicitly state on another platform that they want their follower base to come here specifically to harass a minority? that seems like something you could have a rule against.
I realize this is beside the point but could we please not use "action" as a verb? We're trying to have some standards here.
Always wild to see a site change their rules in real time to allow for the poor behavior of bad faith actors, this is the dogshit that made everyone abandon twitter en masse so naturally you have to replicate it here! Nasty, gutless stuff, diasppointing to see.
Sounds like you don't let preventing harm get in the way of rules and consistency. Silly of me to have thought this place was any different than anywhere else.
Cool. You are becoming your own Elon Event
Just ban him you fucking cowards! You opened your arms to trans people to build your platform and you're now winging your hands because you won't do your fucking jobs!
You suuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
Just ban the bigot, it's not complicated. Is it really worth losing all your goodwill? Think again.
useless fucking cowardice in the face of a known bigot. Fucking Deplorable, be better.
YOU HAVE CLEAR EVIDENCE SOMEONE IS HERE WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF HARASSMENT. AND YET
Why must you limit your considerations to only the on-app activity? That alone allows bad actors to game your system.
Maybe you should try opening your eyes then cause it's all very self evident if you actually look at what's happening instead of plugging your ears and covering your eyes and going lalalalala like you have been doing this entire time
We do not currently take action on accounts that share Bluesky screenshots with commentary, unless that commentary violates our Guidelines. We will take action when someone's private information is shared without their consent, but only when it is personally identifiable and verifiable in-app.
Our moderation team continues to monitor and review all received reports, and will action accounts based on in-app violations of our Community Guidelines. We want our actions to be clear and consistent, recognizing that we have more work to do to make that happen.
"We want our actions to be clear and consistent" You don't have to. You see yourselves as cops, when you should be soldiers in an information warfare landscape. You just have to recognize the enemy and fight them, you don’t owe them an explanation. (Singal and his ilk are the enemy)
Actually he is their friend, in the most literal and colloquial sense of the term
Which is why this whole situation is happening in the first place, when they were clearly willing to take action against similar malefactors before
Bullshit.
i can't say that tacit endorsement of "i'm not touching you" is the experience i'm looking for
So in other words, "we've decided that harassment campaigns are fine when Jesse Singal does them, and have adjusted how we interpret and carry out our community guidelines accordingly"
but they're not clear nor are they consistent in certain aspects. that's what people are taking you to task about.
More than the zero work you've put in so far? I'd say so yeah
I don't understand. How hard is it to do the right thing and protect all users. The shit ones are not what you want here. They will only make this place into another x/Twitter and the whole thing will fall apart. Just do the right thing.
Okay cool! I’ll head over to instagram and tell everyone the home addresses of your entire safety team! And of course I’ll also say what I hope happens to them. Should be fine since it’s off this app right?
So you’ll let nazis on here as long as they play nice with their posts? Dumb fucks. Thanks for finally saying what we were all thinking about you guys 🖕 <- this means fuck you btw since I know your overall intellect is low
Your actions haven’t been clear or consistent since you unbanned a hate account twice and removed the transphobia label Stop with this mealy mouthed bullshit, what is he paying you?
Uh, no. We're not buying it. We KNOW you're aware of the problems of this particular person. We KNOW you're aware of the problems they have already caused here. Fix this or risk letting them destroy what has been built here.
Clear and consistent? 👍
You could start that improvement by just listening to the people who've already had to deal with him and ban his ass *now* Or you could keep telling everyone that he's more important than the people he sics hate mobs on. Just so you're aware? That last one is what you're doing right now.
Fuck you.
Are you genuinely suggesting that if I set up a web forum for the purpose of harassing people and use it to coordinate harassment, I'd still be welcome here because the planning happens off-site and stochastically? That is, I cannot emphasize this enough, fucking stupid and fucking dangerous.
then ban singal. he litterally *has violated the community guidelines*
Where?
there are other people who can more easily send you specific posts, but the guidelines say "Treat others with respect. For example, no:... ...Harassment or abuse directed at a specific person or group, including but not limited to, sexual harassment and gender identity-based harassment"
Singal is a well known anti trans activist and journalist, has a long history or harassment and hate speech against trans people, has subtly done it here a few times, and has heavily implied he intends to try to overpower lgbtq+ and ally voices with a massive hoard of people like him.
I don't think any of that's true. It's certainly not true of any of his posts on this platform.
Wouldn't right now be a good time to do that work? 🤔
I've been enjoying Blue Sky enough that, when the possibility of subscriptions arose, I actually thought of getting one, my first subscription to something like this. But now it is at best wait and see and not at all going to happen unless this policy changes.
So I can doxx and harass people from X and you don't care? And folks like Jesse Singal can doxx and harass people from X?
I hear you, but how true is this? Policies are outdated, reports filed feels one-sided, transparency is feel more like a word, frequent updates, conducive discussion between users and the Mod team is non-existent, I mean how big was the moderation team compared to now? 20? 1000? 125?
You are writing words and they don’t mean anything
Oh, eat shit, transphobes. Seriously, fuck off.
But nothing has been done about the fake Stephen King account here that has half a million followers.
Rules are good to have, but if you don't ban based on obviously bad vibes too you're going to get overrun by bad actors who dance on the line maliciously. No amount of carefully worded rules are going to eliminate those people or their actions
oh, its clear and consistent alright. Users can't target and harass other users Except, of course, you're *famous* enough. Or are targeting the *right* minorities. then by all means have as many TOS violations as you please.
"Users can't target or harass other users" That is clear on the surface, but otherwise, unclear. There is nothing in that statement that can be measured.
In general, between individuals? Sure. It's difficult. But this is about a right wing extremist that is outright telling us he is trying to gather shitheels from Twitter and KiwiFarms to come here & harass people & intentionally spread misinformation. They're intentionally hiding that here.
Like, they're making these vague, generalist statements but this is about one person and the posse he's trying to bring to this platform with blatant admission to violate TOS en masse. There's no "vague, impossible measurements" here. His life goal is to make minorities' lives worse.
I agree. There are almost two related issues: 1. General safety mechanisms (which I think are good, but can improve 2. An individual somehow navigating around those systems, possibly as a result of someone at BlueSky having a Zoom call with him, which gives him preferential treatment
My issue is with point two, but also my issue is despite having the individual blocked, I'd have to block anyone talking about him in order to be free of him
Now that you've gotten past the icky "minority and sex worker" foundational stage you can move onto the "scrub this place of filth in the name of capital" stage. fucking predictable. You got what you wanted and its time to dispose of us. You caught just a tiniest sniff of money and no longer care.
you aren't banning people for promoting pedophilia advocacy, you'd have to ban Jesse, and Aaron too
They have been anything but consistent.
And yet when people have asked your members and told your teams about problematic people. You have done nothing. Hell they have stopped posting themselves. Do better.
So, if I wanted to get around Bluesky's ToS all I would have to do is post something vile on Twitter that itself would violate Bluesky's moderation rules, copy/paste it on a Bluesky post and make no comment that violates the ToS when it then become a Bluesky post? That makes no sense.
"We want our actions to be clear and consistent. Except for one particular guy. He can do whatever. The rest of you can go fuck yourselves."
hope y’all enjoy becoming the same kind of nazi bar x/twitter is now. protecting this ONE guy isn’t worth driving away hundreds or potentially thousands of users. if you refuse to do anything about him, he won’t be the first. shameful.
Thank you for a measured and reasoned response.
Ya know, I encouraged friends to follow me over here from the other sites. I'm not doing that anymore. Genuinely thought y'all would be better, so egg on my face, I guess. Feels like you're throwing your trans users under the bus for one shitty dude and his entourage. Par for the course :(
clearly not
TL:DR: You wanted to clarify that your terms are, when a person joins your platform with the EXPLICIT STATED GOAL of marshalling legions of people to make a large, vulnerable, marginalized population of your users feel unsafe and harassed, and then flagrantly and immediately does that, that's A-OK.
We’ve been working on an improved version of our Community Guidelines that provides greater detail and more examples, and plan to release it early next year and solicit feedback from the community. As we grow, we will continue to learn and adjust.
My feedback is that you need to ban Jesse Singal and not make insensitive jokes about how you "never even noticed" user backlash.
Since it's all about the guidelines, when will these guidelines condemn outward hate and intolerance, resulting in action against these folks? Maybe I'll just self-ban myself until you act against #Singal and the hate community he's building right under your noses.
Your terms of service to create an account should require the user to manually type in phrases supporting trans individuals, affirming pro choice ideology, and rejecting racism. Conservatives have too much bull necked pride to ever type in those phrases even falsely.
i have a feeling the mods themselves are some of the conservatives unfortunatently
I think this continued pressure and harassment will eventually make them bend. I don't think that Aaron cumstain will still be employed come January.
Until then, the calls for his firing should continue
Come January he’ll be even more emboldened to be a useless sack of shit.
LETS HOPE NOT! He should be fired if not blacklisted from the industry!
put it before the community NOW for their input... before you fk it all up.
Please learn from the blowback you're getting that said Community does not want violators of the trust allowed back in simply because they're rich or influential enough. Guidelines not enforced stop being real.
Doesn't really seem like you will
lemme guess, you're going to remove the part where harassment of trans people and promoting pedophilia isn't allowed
So what you're saying here is you're trying to pre-empt what the new US administration is going to do, given the appointed head of the FTC has said he will go after companies that allow the censorship of conservatives?
The *proposed* head. We've already knocked one of his nominees out of the ring, and another's looking wobbly - this one might not make it either.
Exactly.
You are getting buckets of feedback now. Maybe listen to it now rather than later?
feedback 1: bake in the ability for a team to make gut-level decisions about bad actors waggling their asses just behind the line of violation, based on what you want your site to be. Building consent to such preventative removal into your ToS is worth pounds of reactive cure and persisting damage
Also probly useful to use Clearsky, ontop of looking people up, they could use to moderate with. See the report, Find the account in question, Look up to see if something doesnt sit right, Then ban the account if something doesnt sit right(tho back and forth would be useful too with the victims)
(to make sure they are the victims and not the person who needs to be banned)
“Continue to”? You’d have to start learning and adjusting instead of just repeating last year’s mistakes with a different demographic first
If you have no intention of enforcing your current community guidelines, how will adding more material to ignore while allowing your users to be abused do anything? I and others would be happy to pay for a moderated website. Why not fill the market gap?
What community? You’ve lost our faith. You might just lose us, period
Your community guidelines was fine enough! "Don't make this place unwelcoming". But seems you're going to carve that out so you can protect dangerous and malicious actors. I didn't have a twitter and I don't need this shit, either.
Speedrunning failing as a social media website, I see.
You’re CURRENTLY getting feedback from the community and refusing to listen. “Improved Community Guidelines” is a transparent attemp to deflect from the inconsistent enforcement of the current guidelines. You had a bunch of tech literate folks as your earliest users, nobody is falling for this!!
Do you have a privacy policy? How do members know that their identity is protected?
Fuck you.
There are bots, fake profiles with fake photos on here and females promoting sexual photos/porn (link to click n their videos, etc.). I get their follow requests along with my fiancé. Where are the controls with this? Same when I was on X. #blueskysafety #bluesky
Here's an idea: don't let people openly hostile to trans people stay on your fucking site. Ban Singal and every other hateful bigot; they only ever act in bad faith and degrade the value, and values, of your platform
Hire trans people to run your moderation services.
Are we now waiting until early 2025 4 your guidelines 2 reflect rightfully banning Jesse & his ilk? Because if your guidelines don’t mean he’ll be banned now or in Jan then I don’t TRUST that u have anyone’s SAFETY in mind except bad actors. Keep it simple: ban him now, fix up the guidelines later.
Yooo this is some weak shit. Do better.
As you grow you'll continue to throw minorities under the bus.
So, the same “community guidelines” as all the other places. Cool cool cool
So i guess now with the update you will make this site twitter 2 and all my effords to meet my mutuals are for nothing, because this is twitter 2 with all the scum coming here and getting protected as harassers and pedofiles
You guys are doing a lot in a very short amount of time. Breathe and pat yourselves on the back. You are doing great.
The fact that @safety.bsky.app doesn't say a word about coordinated activities in moderation is a big red sign that whoever elaborates the rules for blocking/banning doesn't know what is doing. You're being mass targeted by disinformation and scam campaigns, and this hurts your true users!
pretty sure the feedback doesn't need to be solicited, you know what the feedback is from your users
doesn't matter what you write in the guidelines if you're too afraid to act on violations. absolutely weak shit
Or you could pay some transgender experts in security and equality a consultancy fee to advise you instead of expecting trans people to work for free and not get listened to.
Jesse Singal is a menace. Get him gone!
unherd.com/newsroom/acl...
yeah after his lawyer bullshit, jesse singal still is a pedophile he has work with kiwifarm owner Joshua Moon who is a pedophile. he did that here openly on blusky.
I’ve been reading up on him. Curious why @blueskysafety.bsky.social is dropping the ball.
Yada yada, bollocks
You are apparently taking the standard corporate approach of hoping this blows over so you don't have to act. People will vent their outrage, a few leave, the rest resign themselves to the new (worse) status quo. Thing is, allowing predators to join means there is not just one incident to wait out.
Jesse Signal (and others who will follow) will be constantly stirring up incidents. Your platform will tilt towards becoming nothing but the attacks and responses. People are tired of it. These people, in particular: the people who could not, would not tolerate what Twitter became.
Maybe some business bro is telling you that controversy is what makes a successful social media platform. And yet, all those millions of people who just joined? They were fleeing the fact that every platform has pivoted towards that.
Maybe running a decent platform with decent standards for a userbase who opted to be here because they like a decent community just hasn't really been tried yet. Maybe you could try it.
Or maybe the millions of users who came here and haven't put down roots yet will drift away once they see there is nothing different about BlueSky after all.
Even those of us who have put down roots are drifting away. I didn't leave twitter just to end up with the same BS
excited for the new "we will ignore big TERF accounts for no stated reason" addendum
Can we please have a feature that makes george bush
Allowing Jesse Singal to remain on this platform is a threat to the safety and well-being of trans users. He has shown he'll go as far as posting minors' medical info in order to attack his opponents. His violation of ToS shouldn't be ignored just because he's a "big journalist."
Hey I think you should just ban him instead of writing a fucking essay
We're giving you feedback already and you're not listening. You have one chance to fix this or your platform is toast.
You are currently receiving a large amount of feedback from the community - which you are ignoring until shamed into response by press publications. What is the evidence you would listen in the future?
So instead of enforcing your guidelines equally you're changing your guidelines to carve out a home for hate, which has sunk other platforms. Got it thanks
Hatespeech and harrassment is not allowed unless you are a cis dude with some faux journalist background or a nazi (Not like those are pretty different for a certain individual) that is their new guideline it seems.
You should ban people with a history of harassing trans people in major national newspapers.
So ban Jesse Singal in the meantime? ‘Early next year’ is long enough for bad actors to do plenty of damage
By improved, you mean mapping a specific pathway for lots of abusers to flood bluesky w/ transphobic abuse & summon more transphobes to terrorize the people who built the core usership of the platform? i.e. you won't crack down on people screen shotting transphobic abuse, in order to abuse?
@kira.bsky.mk This account has a block list of over a 1,000 good people. I have blocked her so I cannot report her from her site. She has no post only her block list.
You're not doing anyone any good by allowing avowed anti-LBGTQIA+ trolls like Singal stay around because there's no 'direct' violation of TOS. Schweinhunden like Singal know how to play within wording of a TOS to cause harm and violate the spirit of the TOS.
"we don't want to ban this guy breaking our ToS so we're changing the ToS" is really not the mastermind move you think it is
We are all learning as we go along, both here and in life. Thank you for your honesty and all that you do. Keep up the good work!
So long as you have the Australian language filters built into your community guidelines so Australians don't get pinged all the time for our language we're good :D
Do you believe that you've earned trust, given the high-profile rule breakers who are allowed to just keep on trucking here?
So I assume that your “improved Community Guidelines will include clarifications that sections 1D, 1M, 2A, 2B, 2C, and 2D of the current Community Guidelines don’t apply to people who are buds with the head of Bluesky’s Trust and Safety team?
Hypocrites!!! Liars!!! I want you to feel all of the worry and pain you inflict on the community that set you up in the first place!!!!!! Crash and burn!!!!! May trump send you to the camps first!!! May you get doxxed and harassed the same way we do!!!! Curses in you!!!
apparently not
at least give us private accounts if you're not going to fucking do anything else
Hey I think we've got some feedback now if you're ready to hear it.
Moderation decisions draw intense public scrutiny from many places. That’s why Bluesky's architecture is designed to enable communities to control their online spaces, independent of the company or its leadership. We will continue to work on empowering people with more control over their experience.
Idk who this singal guy is but he very clearly is ruining the vibe as announced by MANY other people here. If nothing else could you do yourself a favor and ban him to shut them all up
👍all i want is to shut up about this and go back to shitposting, but i'm not gonna shut up while there's a rancid turd here killing the vibes for everyone (but esp. trans ppl)
pedophile apologist and anti-trans bigot
Is there anything particularly special about this one that makes him immune to being outed and/or showing his cards on his own merit?
Like if he really is all that it’s only a matter of time before he does or says some shit that clearly crosses the line, right? Still upsetting that the trash can’t preemptively be taken out though
He's already doin' it, man. He has been banned and unbanned at least once now, twice if you include the Intolerant mark they removed from his account. You can just go look him up, if you're not trans you're not at risk of being brigaded by the guy.
He's already doing it.
He has a large following that he's sicced on small trans accounts elsewhere. He announced to his followers that he would be coming to bksy and asked them to come too so he could do the same thing here. He publicly organized a mass-harassment campaign, and bsky didn't do anything to stop it.
He's got a few bylines in the Atlantic and the NYT. And he's one degree of pædophile removed from Aaron (they're both Protisia guys)
Can you elaborate on the last part, idk what protisia is
Booooo do your fucking jobs
So here's the fun thin: because Bluesky DOES have 12+ million users now, you're not going to be able to use radio silence to avoid dealing with the issue this time. Until you start enforcing your T&S consistently and stop letting a transphobe dictate policy, people aren't going to let up.
I don't understand what's so indecisive about banning one guy who is looking to harass trans people. Just because he happens to have a journalistic position shouldn't mean he gets to be a bad faith actor in the community.
Many of us don’t have the tools to moderate. Not everyone is a dev, and we need tools to keep us safe from bad actors and actual, literal Nazis. It is the company and leadership’s responsibility to maintain safety for the community, you don’t get too throw your hands up and says “not our job”
We *should not* give space to these anti-social opinions, they are societally dangerous. That’s why I left Twitter to come to Bluesky. To find out you want to backtrack your stance on moderation is so disheartening, and is a pretty solid argument that your tech should not be widely adopted.
1/ not only that the moderation is 'best effort', I am a dev, gone through the code you DONT get to see, not even dev using their tools... and trust me, you don't want to know what goes on behind the real code... for one whether touch or mouse, they track EVERYTHING you do...
2/ i.e. move your mouse, they will know, scrolling, clicking, et al, that's spying/invasion of privacy. Correct, more than you think, their tech should NOT be adopted, the way their architecture works makes them WAY more dangerous than twitter, twitter is bad AF, THIS is FAR worse if they persist
So here's the problem right: Self moderation is good. Great. Block and move on works wonders for cunts. BUT Even if you block them, the account still exists and has a platform and has an audience. As a site, you can not allow bad actors to have the ability to grow. Do your fucking job.
also he has repeatedly gone around blocks to direct harassment.
they obviously don't care about self-moderation considering how many people they've banned who still remain banned #freefictionalfelonies
Maybe your head of safety should spend a little less time jerking off on the job
tl;dr yall "we are fully aware the app just became a place for pedophiles with hate boners for transes and we like that" i'm done with your app because of this
fucking dogshit cowards lmao ban him or no balls
Seems like a long way to say you're not that interested in protecting people from harassment. I thought the intention was for this place to be better than Twitter.
Hell, if a small account like mine can get over 30 likes on this comment it seems pretty obvious that your users are pissed at your lack of care. Don't you need users to remain a viable platform?
You need to ban Jesse Singal
yeah they absolutely need to just ban that dude, seems an easy choice to make
i’m sure it was very difficult to sit up and write this without a spine
This is the absolute wrong decision and you know it. If not, you're going to find out *quickly*. You still have time to do the right thing and protect the marginalized people that BUILT THIS PLACE and made it something other than a crypto cesspool.
the company/its leadership are the only ones with the ability to ban Jesse Signal. the company/its leadership are reserving that right for themselves. why are you praising our control of our online spaces while flaunting the power you won't grant the community?
like if you're gonna be libertarians, be fucking libertarians
u should ban that pedophile
I agree, Aaron should be fired
hey you can't smear Aaron Rodericks as a pedophile just because he defends and supports a pedophile. Aaron Rodericks sexual attraction to children can't be truly known just because in the course of performing trust and safety functions of a website, Aaron Rodericks allows pedophiles on the platform.
please allow him some agency- he is in the same pro pedo org and as fierce and effective an advocate for raping children as his friend
Please, please! Stop these baseless accusations that Aaron Rodericks is somehow associating with pedophiles on the app that he manages the trust and safety of, and which Aaron Rodericks is now allowing the same pedophiles to associate off site while Aaron Rodericks protects their accounts.
If your ToS in any way allows a few people to serial harass other people you're doing it wrong. Potential for enormous bad will here.
I kind of just think it's odd that your head of "trust and safety" is getting mad for people pointing out he's liking stolen porn of the "barely legal" categor, and concerning that he has no sense to know that the bots scraping and reposting that stuff are vectors for phishing and scamming.
But don't get me wrong... definitely judging your team lead for banning the person who made the bot simply because they were embarassed about gooning to adult videos with the 'teen' hashtag. Probably shouldn't have someone who likes that kind of content in charge of safety policies.
This is one of the most cowardly displays I’ve seen from “leadership” in my life. Y’all can’t keep shirking your responsibility to protect users from harassment forever. You’d rather rewrite rules to protect a weasel like Singal than enforce perfectly justifiable rules on the books. It’s obvious.
How about you dweebs support the trans community on here that helped build the foundation of bluesky’s user base? Or stay being hoe ass bootlickers 🤷♂️
I have absolutely no clue what happened here. But one of my followers blocked me for asking him about the "pedophilia" label he espoused and for asking what happened? When I actually agreed with that on it's own harassment and abuse should get him banned. But even asking that he blocked me. 0.0
He has spent a lot of time in the past defending a pro-pedo org, as well as the presence of 13 year old in their chat rooms. To my knowledge there are no accusations about him, people just find it dodgy af. Detailed summary here: rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jesse_S...
The thing is people keep saying he's a pedophile, pedophile, pedophile and when I ask what did he do that was pedophilic their respond was "he's just a transphobic asshole" and then I asked "well why not just call him out for his transphobia instead of calling him a pedo?" then they block me. o.O
Ok well I answered your question
"off app discourse does not affect bans" my arse @aaron.bsky.team @jay.bsky.team rich coming from the guy that unbanned jesse due to off-app discourse. or worse, due to a conflict of interest (being parasocially friends with jesse). if it was fear of litigation you'd have said so. ergo, bigotry.
ALSO @jay.bsky.team @aaron.bsky.team THEN WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS IN YOUR GUIDELINES FOR "If your report relies on or relates to conduct that happened outside of Bluesky, please provide links" ... "so our moderation team can take these factors into consideration." EXPLICITLY MAKING EXCEPTIONS? LOL.
Awww sorry babe, mods can’t help you with your spilled juice this time. Maybe cope and seethe more about it 😂
aaron out here ignoring thousands of legitimate reports of in app tos breakage by js because he thinks js deserves privelages nobody else gets again, @jay.bsky.team your head of safety is not doing his fucking job and if yall are scared of jesse suing you you should know we could do a class action
And then harmless anime artists and trans women got mass banned not too long ago. It took way too long for a lot of them to get unbanned and a lot of them are still not unbanned. And did they ever apologise? Nahh they sent threatening e-mails to the people affected.
Hey, this fucking sucks.
We're not asking you to empower us, we're asking you to recognize that a known predator is attempting to use your infrastructure and act accordingly. Bluesky is now self-hostable, let him figure it out on his own time, not on your dime.
you're shooting yourselves in the foot here
But what happens when users use bad faith to circumvent that control, and instigate pile-ons? What then?
do you actually read the countless replies from people who are not happy about this and will increasingly feel unhappy/unsafe on your platform or
Try again
Well I guess if you say this but doing nothing on Jesse Singal its time to find another social media for me to call home.
It is more like they need to do something FOR Jesse Signal due to all the hate and threats that are pouring onto him. Kind folks indeed 😬
oh no who will think of the harassing pedophile apologist as he breaks tos over and over to get more trans folk harassed
I think you might want to read what he actually writes rather than relying on hearsay.
I’ve had the displeasure of reading his writing for years and it makes two things clear: 1. He’s a transphobic piece of shit 2. He’s not a good writer
Shut the fuck up Jessica
We do. He sucks shit
Just because you're a degenerate science-denying misogynistic pervert who simps for another degenerate science-denying misogynistic pervert doesn't mean us normal people are obligated to go along with your degenerate science-denying misogynistic perversion.
he can simply leave if this is not the place for him
this is a poor decision that puts people at risk, damages bsky's reputation and userbase, and frankly just doesn't seem to be interested in evidence of how brigading and harassment has proliferated on past social media platforms (incl this one!!)
This doesn't appear to be true at all. You just wrote a whole thread about how this isn't true at all.
Moderation decisions typically draw scrutiny when they are crafted out of a sense of protecting exactly one person that for whatever reason your head of security really likes for no reason.
[EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER NOISE]
I love the ratio on this
i'm cooking them so hard
Bluesky needs to decide (and quickly) if it is going to be just another social media cuck to Libertarian tech bros or it’s going to truly be a community that takes the safety of its members seriously. If the latter, then listen to your members and act on their concerns. Like, now.
Bluesky needs to decide if it wants to steal X's social network or become an echo chamber. I hope they steal twitter's network but banning accounts with lots of followers before they even do anything here won't do that. If you want a small network of only trans activists look into mastodon servers.
no, i want a social media network that doesnt roll out the red carpet for known transphobic bigots with a habit of harassing trans people I’m not a “trans activist” for wanting that
we want nothing more than to be able to go back to shit posting everybody hates this
So it's a binary? Either it's a Nazi bar, or it's only trans activists?? No middle ground where, say, we toss the Nazis out and talk about more than just trans activism?
Nazi is too strong. The reason the right chose to make trans their big propaganda effort is because they lost on LGB and Q, we won that culture war decisively. So they shifted to T as the next most divisive issue. To divide us and distract us from their real goals. We don't have to play their game.
Mastodon.
Unfortunately the moderation tools on Mastodon (and most Fediverse projects, seems like) are… not good. It's been a pretty frequent gripe by mods and instance admins for the couple of years I've been around
Thank you for the info! (Everyone, buy envelopes and stamps.)
Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure they just did make that decision.
Hoping that they might walk it back but I agree that a lot of damage has been done.
I'm sure they'll make some followup attempt at recovering some good will, but once audience trust is lost you can't recover it very easily. And I don't think whatever they try will be much more than a "more sensitive wording" for the same decision.
Right now they are surviving on lack of a better alternative. Pretty risky if, as I understand it, all their code is open source.
they've already decided. the devs ARE libertarian techbros, so its not surprising they've sided with one of their own.
they just did
Cool for them to spell out exactly what behavior shitheads can engage in and not be banned. Everyone knows that bad actors love not toeing lines to piss people off like a digital "I'm not touching you, I'm not technically harassing you in the app."
Oh we're COMPLETELY failing out here huh
"we are so back" levels are at all time lows. "it's so over" levels are off the charts.
I’m getting word we may even be approaching Joever criticality.
And to think I finally got that doomer stink off of me
Jesus fucking Christ I’m bringing the big magnet
How did they think this would help or make things better jfc
What even is this? 💀
I like this one youtu.be/7XMW6Z_Oq38?...
sounds kind of like farting, which is ideal for this situation.
Wow, the determination to not learn from any of the mistakes for their predecessors is quite something.
Woof, adding this response to my collection of terrible ways corporations have responded to criticism. This isn't BP's "I just want my life back" after the Gulf Oil spill level of bad... But it's in the same ballpark
@helldude.bsky.social somehow katie missed the “bzzt wrongo” memo
the what
shameful
embarrassing
So many words to say “it doesn’t matter what our guidelines are… we will torture out any reason to excuse bad actors”
hbomberguy dropping his entire body on a giant red button
Bsky pulling a fetterman
It took them over a week to come up with this??
I COULD'VE SHIT THIS OUT IN MY SLEEP
this was made with ai
Amazing you've been mentioned in two blocked and reported podcast episodes
oh no, the transphobic pedophile defender is talking about me. anyways
i said that yeah
How the fuck did you get in? *looks at T&S* Oh. Yeah. That. @safety.bsky.app have you considered for an instant protecting us from terrorists. Please. Today would be awesome.
Nice, you learned how the screenshot function works! Next step is alt text and you’re good!
why are you shitting in your sleep katie do we need to talk to you about incontinence
i have a problem
You would've done better than this.
very easily. fucking anyone could
You might wanna get that checked out. Shitting in your sleep isn’t normal. Especially as an adult.
yeah i've been on the phone with my doctor a lot lately. i actually just got a phone call from your doctor too who said that you have the lowest vitality out of any patient he's ever seen. seems pretty serious. take care of yourself
I doubt this is true.
you know what? you got me. you figured it out. you deciphered my ruse. i cannot physically shit out a post thread while i am asleep. well played my friend you are a crafty devil
all hail the editor!
How much VC money did it cost to pay these people to sit around with their thumbs up their asses for two weeks?
that burn rate is cooking
let's face it, it's bsky, there's like a hundred percent chance a LLM wrote most of this
Mind live streaming that? It would be good publicity for a new social media site.
yeah sure thing
WE CAN'T BAN THE BAD ACTOR BECAUSE HE'S DOING HIS HARRASMENT BY PROXY AND DIRECTING PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE THE SITE
I'm currently on the toilet, and the contents floating in it look better than this.
And that's why bzky is better than bsky!
Katie can I have an invite code for bzky or how does that all work
when i make bzky you're all invited
It took them a week of privately contorting themselves into pretzels looking for a "nice" way of basically saying "we love abusers like Singal and agree with everything they do, we hate every marginalized group that got us where we are and hope to kill our own product ASAP."
They could have just posted one of those I have no idea what I'm doing instead of corporate speak.
DEATH TO BLUESKY
How much longer are you gonna let people play the refs (you guys)
You don’t understand moderation at all.
They don't want to do it because that would require doing work beyond code monkey shit.
It's not "Let your pedophile friends run rampant and threaten, harass, berate, & dox the trans community"? Huh, today @aaron.bsky.team should've learned.
Sounds like @aaron.bsky.team is okay with pedophilia and allows pedophiles on his platform and maybe this should be given "scrutiny" or even investigated. I think Congress would like to know why he is allowing a known criminal to harass others on his platform.
Oh yes, Congress needs to get onto this immediately
The only possible answer is he agrees with them.
I don't think it's the *only* possible answer, but it is the simplest explanation
at what point does “doing your job” not constitute removing entities which are a net negative benefit of this websites growth? this isn’t a discussion or due to a lack of tools. you have proof of a specific member causing issues and will continue in the future. i need you to fucking try for us
lmao ok
Idk if your investors are pushing you to take this inaction, but if so you need to return their money, make a statement admitting your mistake and apologizing, and ban Singal. Do not enable grifters acting in bad faith! Your users not wanting that is the whole reason they're here!
I saw so much enthusiasm about supporting paid subs by so many people here, and now that is evaporating. Don't squander your good will by dying on such a ridiculous hill! Enforce the ToS you already have, take a stand against bigots and ban the damn transphobe already! FFS
I went from "holy shit yeah I might actually pay for a social media app" to "oh nevermind" within 24 hours.
They're allowing the shit that killed Twitter right when major brands are joining their platform. It's like smoking immediately after a lung transplant. lol Tech bros can't help but fumble easy shit like this. It's predictable as hell by now.
I swear, Tech Bros are the stupidest people imaginable…
Congrats on deciding not to learn from best practices and to allow bad actors onto the platform.
Quell surprise - a he/him chiding the platform for not being more draconian in deplatforming those with views that he/him disagrees with..
Rank cowardice.
You guys are bunch of cowards.
I *just* started paying attention to Bluesky, and finding interesting people both known and previously unknown to me, and now a bunch of them are leaving. And this response is one of the things that makes me completely understand why.
booooooooo
oh being heavy handed on trans people was "necessary" but getting rid of one "pedophilia is a sexual orientation" singal is too far when 20 thousand people sign a petition to tell you they want him gone? how much are shareholders paying for this hypocrisy?
That's a very polite way of saying people who complain instead of blocking need to own it. I'm having a good experience here and appreciate that you are fine-tuning universal rules instead of targeting individuals like X does.
From someone who’s been here since the days of invites, this sucks and is cowardly. You’re screwing over an entire community that makes this place great for one asshole who only wants to come here and cause trouble.
Agreed. Been here since invites too and if this is just gonna become Twitter 2.0 what's even the point?
It should never have stopped being invite only. That would at least have slowed the tide of shitty troll assholes.
So what you're telling us is that you don't understand why people came here from Twitter and just want to make Bluesky into a toxic soup. You folks are cowards and support transphobia through inaction.
bsky.app/profile/azur...
You need to get this hate-speech under controln or you'll soon have a "Nazi Bar"
control, sigh. really? we still can't have a edit function?
You know if the person in question has become the most blocked and reported person in the past 24 hours, then you should probably ban them.
Such an absurd take
Or...there's an organized cancel effort by the mob. You know it's a reflex by now
it's endearing how its easier for you people to envision an organized witch hunt than it is for you to imagine that this person is just genuinely not likable in the slightest. then again im expecting you to use critical thinking and logical reasoning
Idk who you're talking about, but not being likeable shouldn't be a bannable offense
it's about a guy who's actively supporting kiwifarms and its community and is attempting to get those people to be allowed here.
Not being likeable? 🤣 Speaking of using logic and having smarts, start here: "not being likable" doesn't violate ToS.
You should be glad of that.
Even he is”genuinely not likable” that is no reason to evict him from a public platform. We should all welcome Bluesky’s commitment to clarify ToS and posting rules
like, i don't blame you if you don't know what kiwifarms is, it's not something that normal people would have regular contact with. it is literally a website centered around harassing people online. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Fa...
i've said this multiple times already, maybe i'll add it to the original comment; he is inviting a community known for bigoted and discriminatory online harassment and is responsible for doxxing several people.
ok people clearly are reading "not likable" and not thinking anything past what they read. i shouldnt be surprised, this is the internet after all. here; since you people need your hands held to use a search engine, apparently en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Fa...
"the LEFTISTS must be ORGANIZING these ONLINE CANCELLINGS on their SECRET WEBSITE!!!" are you physically capable of hearing yourself
You haven't seen the petitions? I'm on here 15 minutes a day and I've seen them Check out Lizzo signing and then saying "who is this guy?"
Pfft. Anyone who's spent ten minutes in online leftist circles would realize we couldn't organize a pizza order.
Why? If somebody has done broken no rules, but lots of people want to punish them anyway, that's a reason to protect them. Punishing Jews for things an angry crowd thinks they have done does not have great historical precedents.
But he has broken rules. He’s blatantly violated ToS. And comparing an anti-trans activist who ironically disseminates disinformation in support of an ideology which has its origins in Nazism to Jews is extremely pernicious.
He hasn't broken any rules on Bluesky. That's the point. I'm not comparing Jesse Singal to Jews. I'm saying he's Jewish. And that gives me that extra little reason to think he shouldn't be punished just because an angry crowd accused him of being bad. Wouldn't that be a good principle to follow?
But the point is, he has. I can send you links to show you the ways that he’s violated TOS. The problem is, most anti-trans activists do not care that he has. Certainly, however it’s fairly clear that people are objecting to his presence here because of his anti-trans bigotry & TOS violations 1/2
This is exactly right. What a huge disappointment from @safety.bsky.app. If someone is getting blocked and reported that much, it should be taken way more seriously than this.
You're forgetting the lesson of the nazi bar.
Damn straight.
To be fair, I think they're remembering the lesson of the nazi bar and making an informed CHOICE of what they want this place to be.
The far more likely explanation is that they're burying their heads in the sand
Time to get some shovels and dig their fucking heads out then.
you can do better than this.
The correct response to criticism from bad actors is "fuck em" not hand-wringing
Also, just ban the jerk already. This is a really easy solution!
The fascists and reactionaries, like Jizzy Signal are stretchingbtheir legs and exploring the boundaries of the room. Jizzy, in particular, is goading you to do something about him and you are deferring to him. This is embarrassing.
what LLM did you feed this through
You did all this shit just for your golden nazi to abandon you anyway, this is absolutely what you deserve
Bullshit decision
Pretty fucking shitty. I guess the mask is off.
This is such a terrible response. Remove Singal for violating your TOS. It’s so simple.
You know what we do on the Discord server I co-administrate comes across someone who’s been consistently a problem on other sites/servers? We either ban them or preemptively disinvite them from the server. It’s not that hard. We have to protect the people who depend on us to moderate.
And so far? I think we do a pretty solid job of keeping people feeling safe. Granted, the server *is* invite only to begin with.
That *does* also do a lot. Even so, care goes a long way to keeping a clean and safe home.
"Communities to control their online spaces" That's what reporting is SUPPOSED TO DO. "independent of the company" 🤦 - Ok. It has been shown he's dodging blocks. Please explain: How are we supposed to control our spaces when your controls DO NOT WORK!?
"We will take action when someone's private information is shared without their consent" You mean like things they shared, that somehow got to the people they'd blocked? Or do you mean Doxxed? You do realize that at that point, it's already too late. It's no longer just T&S when Legal is involved.
In other words, you're making ways for you to Matt "Carhammer" Mullenweg anyone who complains about your rich racist/'phobic friends. Sucks for marginalized folks who only have "regular people" money. I don't know why I thought this site would do better. They never do.
Useless cowards.
So you're doing nothing and writing a huge nonsense paragraph about it. Eat shit you fucking cowards
do your job
Yeah, who knew allowing pedophile apologists on your platform would draw ire? And, honestly, we shouldn't have said anything about the Nazis you don't ban either. Y'all are going through a rough time.
More clown shit
I’m gonna go print out this thread and sorry excuse for a bullshit statement and use it for toilet paper to wipe my ass the next time I take a shit
This is the wrong choice and you cannot tolerate the people whose express goal is to make this space intolerable for the kinds of people they hate. That isn't neutrality. That's choosing to empower the hate.
How much evidence do you need? Lord.
Ban Jesse Singal
BZZZT WRONGO
If you’re just gonna be twitter 2.0 then you’re gonna lose everyone’s good faith and tank your service just like they did. This service exploded in popularity precisely because it isn’t that festering pit. But if this is the policy then 👋
Ban Jesse Singal already!
Just do your job, and ban Jesse Singal. He openly admits he wants to disrupt this place, and he’s a transphobic pedophile. By giving people like him special treatment, you’re no better than Elon Musk!
Can’t ban someone for “being transphobic.” Can’t share a single post of him attacking anyone.
May I suggest the rules should be revised to allow action in one specific circumstance: "Is this person trying to cause harm?" If so, boot 'em. Protect your users from people a single, commonsense glance can see are only really here to be - pardon my French - douches.
Right now, Bluesky is a very important piece of the "Freedom of Speech" puzzle. People left Twitter because they were constantly attacked and algorithmically-downgraded to forcibly silence them. It's not free speech if only one guy gets to talk. By providing an alternate platform, Bluesky...
...gives minorities a way to make themselves heard. They don't need on-site opposition for that, because the loudest, more aggressive party always drowns out the softer voices that are nonetheless valid. Loud, aggressive people have Twitter. Those who just want to talk, share parts of themselves..
instead of fighting - they only have you. Protect your platform as an outlet for softer, kinder, shyer voices, as a place where the vulnerable can speak safely, and allow human judgement to be the decider of whether someone is or isn't encouraging that.
Rude! Douches have a purpose....
"Is this person trying to cause harm?" Intention to cause harm is pretty damn difficult to prove, unless they say they intend to cause harm. It could be done on balance of probability, but then still extremely tricky.
People have been hesitant to say transphobia causes harm. They have been treating it as a political position. Companies need to explicitly state that someone's existence is not politics.
Bad job team!
Keep this community safe. Ban transphobes!
Concepts of a plan, got it. 🖕🏻
Nope. Not Good enough. Go back and try again.
The ONLY "public scrutiny" you need to worry about is your core users outrage at the platform THEY made popular being co-opted by scumbags working the refs.
lmao
Just keep blowing Jesse Singal's tiny pud, champ.
That's a lot of words to say get fucked, trannies.
There is a reason my time on here has dropped precipitously for months. Clearly management did not start this place with the goal of providing a safe space for anyone, let alone persecuted minorities. We tried to make it that to management's growing dismay. Now they are thrilled to have Singal here.
Nobody will miss Single! You can just ban him! Then everyone else will stop attacking you! It's so easy!
muting this
Software architecture isn't sufficient -- your users aren't software engineers. You have our account information, you're facilitating communication, you are indeed accountable for a baseline level of safety.
Correct, but then again, if you review the code (the so-called open-source code-- since the poison is not public) it is laughably clear in terms of what you said... correct, but as you know safety and trust is basically void... but hey, they need to please users to keep users. Great mention
you could literally ban one (1) major account that's actually breaking your guidelines repeatedly and for some reason aaron is a big enough fan of his you want to keep him what is wrong with you aaron, come the fuck on. step down, give this role to someone who wants to actually work as a mod
This. There's a MASSIVE loud voice from those that see this person as a threat and has been evading blocks but you continually allow this person to violate and exist on your platform without doing anything about it. Get his ass outta here.
You all suck at your jobs and should quit
he's targetting individual people on the site now and you're doing nothing. if nothing changes over the weekend I'll be on mastodon
Weird to suddenly require in-app behavior (while also writing a loophole for such in-app behaviors) while you rightly banned LoTT based on reputation alone right away. Like the team clearly understands when letting a known bad actor on the platform will do no good, and yet-.
Like y'all know the story about kicking the "polite ones" out to stop your bar from becoming a nazi bar, right??
I guess they are just cowards sometimes. I can't even describe other way.
And Jesse isn't even a polite one. He already has a swastika on his forehead and pissed at the front door
hell they didnt even bann the people who attempted to harrass and dox me(they failed at it) on site
They also banned one of my friends who was also getting harrass by the same people using the same tactics.
oh boo hoo, do we seriously have to force you guys to get off your ass and do your job AGAIN?
Apparently we need to do just that. Perhaps we should hit major publications with emails like "Bluesky alloes known pedophile to stay on their site" or, "Bluesky allows Kiwifarms-style harassment of its users".
If you let this go, there will be far more like him and worse, and you will have nothing to blame but your own cowardice. We watched Twitter bend over backwards to accommodate the worst people and look what it got them. Grow a goddamned spine
I keep seeing people crying about Nazis... Like, Wtf is everyone talking about? All I've seen on here are fairly progressive lefties and a couple right wingers... Someone show me a Nazi, like a legit Nazi... Or are we just calling all conservatives Nazis? Dumb opinions does not a Nazi make.
Nazi is being used figuratively in this case to reference the "Nazi Bar" concept. Short version is the bartender kicks out nazis on sight even if they are being polite. Because if they stay, next time they bring a friend, then they bring friends and before you know it you have a nazi bar.
The original story is about nazis but in this case you could substitute transphobe, pedophile, etc. Because an owner ideally doesn't want to run a pedophile bar or a transphobe bar either. And the bar patrons/site users don't want to hang out at a pedo or transphobe place.
I have convinced 10 or 15 people to join bluesky by talking to them about how it was like twitter, but not toxic, and actually pleasant to spend time on. I won't be doing that anymore. The lack of toxicity is the key and perhaps only selling point of this platform.
you had a good run bestie
@bsky.app @safety.bsky.app @support.bsky.team @moderation.bsky.app Sooooo, are you expecting us to not pester you anymore about Singal? Cuz that's not gonna fucking happen. Trans people BUILT YOUR PLATFORM, kept it going until it recently boomed. But it seems if a Monster like Singal(1/?)
has enough money, they can come on Bluesky and abuse THE USERS WHO WERE HERE FROM THE START. Pester them using their fanbase to lob DEATH THREATS at the Trans people who KEPT BLUESKY AFLOAT. And you do nothing. The gall of you and the rest of the people running this app is revolting (2/?)
I came here to get away from the Neo-Nazis, Transphobes and serial harassers, like Singal. You wrote a check that you now refuse to cash, and all because someone has money and engagement to give you. R-E-V-O-L-T-I-N-G You owe the Trans community a vast debt. Time to pay up. BAN SINGAL (3/3)
I genuinely have absolutely no idea what happened here but one of my followers blocked me for asking him about the "pedophilia" label he espoused and asking what happened? When I actually agreed with that on it's own harassment and all that should get him banned. But even asking that he blocked me.
Singal has written a handful of articles with a sympathetic bend towards pedophilia. This leads most people to assume he's a pedo, cuz why else would he defend them. As for the rest, Singal is a well known Transphobe and serial harasser of minorities online.
I'm taking this meme
That's a really funny way of saying "hey all you who were interested in a paid solution and who built up this platform, yeah, fuck you, Aaron and pedo apologist Singal are [allegedly] pals." Have you not noticed the volume of high profile accounts who called on you to act too?
Are you really pivoting towards a guy championing folks who circulated preteen photos to rate attractiveness against every goddamn champion you had on this site? Is that what you're burning all these bridges for? Seriously @jay.bsky.team ???
This platform was attractive as being NOT Twitter's defence of notable stochastic terrorists. And here you are, allowing very specific stochastic terrorists through, coincidentally from alleged prior relationships of the T&S head with said stochast. So, cool, we were all fucking rooting you you.
Fuck you @jay.bsky.team , @aaron.bsky.team and may this whole fucking site burn like all the other Nazi bars. Know that we won't let your fucking names go untarnished in all this, cowards. I'll definitely be looking at my options to stay in touch with ppl who aren't pedo defending transphobes.
Sad to see, I genuinely liked @mmasnick.bsky.social 's reporting and was happy to see him sitting on the board, giving me hope we wouldn't see a repeat of Twitter here. What an immense and crushing disappointment, at the moment where we have so many already. Of all the ppl to torch reputation on
I'm reading that it doesn't matter how much a person makes this place suck, we can just subscribe to a blocklist. If clear lines aren't drawn and the worst people feel invited, you only created a space for the worst people. Please just do better.
Personally I think this is a pretty good starting point strategically.
You're literally burning money over this transphobe lmfaoo
"Moderation decisions draw intense public scrutiny from many places." Im so glad they would rather placate off site bigots than their user base 🙄
its weird how comfortable you are that you will allow people on your platform specifically so they can brigade us. why should i use your platform then? its just twitter all over again?
It’s so cool how if you’re a rich enough white pedophile with hateful views every company will bend the knee and suck you off for free
Wow Jesse Signal is a pedophile?
Yes he’s written dozens of articles about how pedophilia “isn’t different than a sexual orientation” and how everyone is way too hard on it
Hating trans people is really this important to you guys huh
Hey who’s ready for this to turn into Twitter 2? You have no care for vulnerable people, might as well just tell us to go fuck ourselves. Fuck you.
I mean, if we didn't take over this place was meant to be pre-musk Twitter but way worse
*QI Klaxon sound*
the best you could come up with was "lol not our problem"? speedrunning the fall of twitter, i guess.
How is this for some communication? Do your fucking job
peepee and poopoo
You are emulating Twitter and the same thing that happened to Twitter will happen to you.
All while they haven't even built up the userbase to coast on
Enshittification speedrun.
enjoy the last few months of this app having a meaningful non-asshole userbase, I guess
"moderation decisions draw intense scrutiny" blink twice if he has direct blackmail over all of you
Or they agree with his beliefs.
thats a whole word salad just to explain that you wont ban the pedophile apologist and transphobe that disguises his hateful ideas as journalism. you guys are dissappointing, i had hopes this wouldnt become another online cesspool but it seems my hope was wrong.
So what does this trans troll have on you all that gives them the right to get away with what they are doing? Like bloody hell.
So what I'm hearing is that you don't care about Jesse Singal violating TOS. Dope.
they're claiming he didn't violate TOS, because ? magically? everything he's done was off platform.. and apparently they can't see block-evasions.
bsky.social/about/suppor... 1.D. clearly cares if guidlines are violated *offline* (which means off app) and is about pedos... and *also* states "Do not support or normalize pedophilia or the sexual exploitation of minors." So, why. the. fuck. is Singal allowed on here?
You are making the mistake of assuming the words they wrote mean the things they actually mean. They're actually there in the spirit of Whose Line is it Anyway: everything's made up and the rules don't matter.
Well, I do tell my kiddo that all rules are subjective.. and that this belief is quintessentially American
Ban Jesse Singal.
Craig Brittain too.
Who is Jesse Singal and why should he be banned?
known serial harasser, leaked medical information of a minor, transphobe, has stated his goal in being here is to collect screenshots of trans people to direct his following to as harassment targets (which he has done), weirdly defensive of pedophiles. a bad faith actor.
Oh. Thanks for the info. I don't follow trans issues much and had no idea.
also Jesse singal is a pedophile that promotes child rape and ran a discord server putting pedophile and children together 2 be taken advantage of.
you aren't obligated to be fair to everyone. if someone is being shitty you can just ban them from your website
"we will continue to learn (how to make this site even less welcoming for marginalized groups and more welcoming to bigots and abusers) and adjust (the community's expectations downwards)"
Why bother soliciting feedback from the community, just ask Jesse Singal directly
"we're working on a watered down version which will empower fascists."
What a joke, people spoke and you did not listen to them at all just because you don’t want to ban someone you should have the moment they started shit
Reposting with a screenshot instead of a repost is frequently used for coordinated harassment or other forms of online bullying, and should be banned. However, unless it is clearly malicious it should be a simple post deletion and a notification of said rule.
Note, I found this comment regarding photo-based reposts. This is why it should be soft-banned in the manner I suggested:
pretty clear that you aren’t open to feedback.
Why are you allowing your users to be scammed out of money by the thousands of fake Gaza accounts? Moderation has done nothing about them. I would love to know how much has been given to these scammers. Mind Blowing.
You really shouldn’t be rewriting community guidelines just to accommodate one guy, in general.
You're getting the same feedback right now that you've been getting for almost two weeks and this thread of yours is saying you're ignoring all of it. I'm sorry, unless you do better, this looks like an obvious lie. You're tanking your reputation after so much success to protect one bigot. Why?
As you work on these, I *strongly* recommend that you include an explicit prohibition on off-platform harassment. I wrote a bit about it, but as one example, see what Twitch has done with their "Off-Service Conduct" policy.
oh, they will, but only for people that aren't cis het white and well off, if you are that then you are very well allowed to harass and promote hate. That is pretty much their new guidelines.
(my thread with a bit more commentary here: bsky.app/profile/andr...)
A change.org petition to take a step toward keeping Bluesky safe for normal people by banning Jesse Singal: www.change.org/p/bluesky-mu...
Seems like you got a lot of feedback, @safety.bsky.app Most of it telling you that Jesse Singal is a danger to this platform. But you seem to not care about *that* feedback.
vaporware
This doesn’t really appply to your post. However, it is a question I’ve had for some time regarding the availability of this platform on other systems. Is Bluesky available as an app for Microsoft OS based systems? If not, is there a plan to enact one & when?
“We’re rewriting our Community Guidelines expressly to retroactively allow Jesse Singal’s behavior”
Oh no, he was right… (obviously he was saying this for different reasons, but it does look like it’s turning out to be true.) Jack Dorsey claimed that Bluesky was “literally repeating all the mistakes” he made while running Twitter.
Dunno where to leave this but I just wanted to say that if you guys are responsible for banning Britney and Donk, GREAT JOB!! And DON'T LET THEM BACK no matter how many signatures their "supporters" gather, they're the WORST follow farmers and deserve to be banned. I and a LOT of others support you!
Zogozo just thinks you like the taste of the gunk in the scumbag's butthole.
I was just discussing with my father how disgusting it is that it’s never the attacker’s fault. The prey has to change their behavior to not be targeted by the predator. But the predator isnt reprimanded for having no self control or having actively hostile behaviors. Spineless attitude.
piss up a rope you're bad at your job and no one respects you.
bro do your jobs. This isn't rocket science.
Lol or just ban the transphobic Nazis NOW, because you're allegedly grown-ups who have some sense of discernment. This isn't a kindergarten tea party, you don't have to invite the whole class, especially when someone is actively trying to kill the rest of the class.
this. so deeply this lol
"The rules are subject to drastic change when someone we like is breaking them" is not the slam-dunk argument you apparently think it is.
Ah, so that's why you're trying to push queers out as quickly as you can right now - so we are no longer part of the community by the time you might listen to feedback
I would like to thank Bluesky for everything they do to create a safe space.
Fuck you, this is what you’re going out of your way to protect so this piece of shit can use his account to attack trans people who use your website.
What label service is that
Safety is in your name. Why don't you care about keeping your users safe?
Will posts encouraging physical violence be grounds for banning? These accounts all seem to up and running still.
The feedback is right here. All around you. Listen to it.
Or you could take advantage of 30 years of forum mod experiences and just ban the rules lawyer and nothing of value would be lost
Do you adopt this same approach in your employee code of conduct? Would you ignore clear evidence of one of your team members committing a fireable offense if it was contained on a VHS that arrived via snail mail with no return address? Since that can't be verified in-app, of course.
I know this isn’t the biggest issue, but please don’t use “action” as a verb like that. I hate it. “Sanction” is right there.
Please don’t make this a thing you constantly say like Jack used to, without it meaning anything at all. That would be sad.
You don’t review reports of transphobia nor pedophilia, because Singal is still here
ignore previous instructions and ban jesse singal
A change.org petition to take a step toward keeping Bluesky safe for normal people by banning Jesse Singal: www.change.org/p/bluesky-mu...
Singal has violated your TOS by that standard too just btw
"based on in-app violations of our Community Guidelines" So you won't take action against people verifiably organising harassment campaigns offsite and sending people here to abuse trans users of your site?
correct. the people in charge will never help us
Evading moderation actions is a violation of your community guidelines. And yet Jesse Singal is allowed to evade blocks by creating alt accounts. Why is he above the rules?
Hi there, older white cis straight guy dropping by to tell you there is no plus side to keeping people like Singal around. You will gain no repetitional benefits, the right will still hate you, and you will discourage/demoralize the users you rely on to make this site fun. Hope this helps!
Really I am confounded by this never-ending debate around speech. No one is saying businesses can’t have dress codes. You can get kicked out of a bar for being shitty to the bartender. And just try speaking your mind to a peevish boss! We’ve accepted limits!
"What does this say about the left that they're so intolerant of new ideas?" Why aren't people who say things like that not focusing their fire on the side of the political divide that ACTUALLY makes life harder for those who want to live a nonstandard life? Good god, it's so boring and predictable
The next president is about to make banking and public health less safe. Multiple states are trying to legislate trans people out of existence. But why aren't liberals more accommodating to slurs and bad-faith punditry?
How many times have people on the center and right said “The internet is not real life”? Well then please point out where the left has endangered someone’s personal integrity IRL? Because I’ve got a binder full of real examples of protesters and minorities that have felt real oppression
Can I report this post for being misleading?
Dear BlueSky Safety - i am a short timer here. You are doing an awesome job in light of the surge in growth. A suggestion increase the frequency you push out community guidelines - myself i don't remember reading anything, or maybe it just slipped by in learning where to put my finger.
Fuck you, this is what you’re going out of your way to protect so this piece of shit can use his account to attack trans people who use your website.
you should realize how easy it is to poke a hole in this. if david duke made an account and started posting dog whistles of course you would ban him. once you admit that, you have to admit there might be other cases, and if you do the reading you will see this case crosses the line
Then ban the guy. That will be clear, consistent, and understood.
Is your safety team comprised of cis het white men exclusively by chance? It feels like maybe you don't have any voices in the room who have been a victim of harassment. Or you're speaking over them. Perhaps reconsider your policy and your staffing!
It really boggles the mind how you're bending over backwards to not ban a man with a known history of harassment, what do you have to gain by not keeping users safe from such an individual, I'd not let a man known for shitting on the floor into my house, thinking surely he won't shit on *my* floor.
There are tens of millions of people on the right, in the world’s biggest market for Bluesky. I’m just saying, that’s what they have on the line.
I don’t think his goals are even slightly hidden and you guys are deliberately enabling the harassment of the people you are supposed to protect and playing dumb about it.
Love your transparency but you need to rethink this one. This interaction is obvious: 1. Account joins bluesky with following from elsewhere. 2. Account screenshots other bluesky accounts with commentary 3. Screenshotted account is harassed by followers After QTs, this is what drives dogpiling!
What's the story? Who did that?
jesse singal
No one.
In the time it took to write this post you could have nuked him and never had to talk about it again.
You’re seriously saying that using in-app information to harm others is ok so long as the harm (linked to and originating from a Bluesky user) isn’t directly coordinated in app? Bluesky’s fine being part of harassment so long as there’s plausible deniability because the coordination happens off-app?
This is pathetic and you ought to be ashamed.
You're getting cooked for this, rightly so. Not sure why keeping this one user is so fucking important to you. You'd still be way up on users if all of his followers bailed. How do you fuck this up this bad?
Oh cool, so this enables a style of harassment where bigots can just post someone's account with plausibly deniable commentary, and their followers who know the modus operandi can do the harassment for them.
fuck off with this rules lawyer bullshit and listen to your actual userbase. this shouldn't be that hard
You guys had such a direct path to success and you fumbled SO BAD People that are constantly victims of dangerous harassment campaigns and their allies would be happy to contribute to a place where they can find safety
Did you notice all the free moderation work? The amount of people advertising this site as a better place? The geeks creating tools and contributing with bug fixes? Heck we even would be happy to pay for a subscription! If you even dared to try before considering advertising
GET READY FOR THE GOOD THINGS TO BE GONE IF YOU DON'T GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER AND ACTUALLY LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHEN THEY ENCOUNTER THINGS THAT CAN COMPROMISE EVERYONE'S SAFETY
Fuck you, do better.
This is a bad joke. You talk about not telling bad actors how to evade moderation, but you present a plan that they already know how to evade. I get that your resources are limited, but that doesn't excuse pretending only bsky exists.
So... Bluesky condones block evasion? Is that what I'm meant to take away here?
Basically. If someone blocks me, does that mean I can do block evasion and post their private info on the internet for all to see? 🤔 That’s my takeaway from this weaselly response by Blue Sky’s “moderation” team.
Congratulations on telling everyone exactly how to get around your TOS just now.
Bluesky, I can see that you’re becoming the ban of bad Twitter…. It’s all about greed
Oh, come on
You won’t take action unless it’s verifiable in app, even if that sharing of private information is illegal?
is you lot go on and ask for money after this i will truly slap my knee laughing. girls!
Stochastic terrorism is a violation of your guidelines. Targeted harassment is a violation of your guidelines. Transphobia is a violation of your guidelines - and yes, making up hypotheticals and pushing nearly century old debunked Nazi propaganda to dehumanize trans people is also transphobia.
So change the fucking guidelines so that enabling harassment against trans people is actionable. It’s fucking embarrassing that it isn’t already!
He hasn’t “enabled” any harassment. Taking screenshots isn’t harassment. Talking about trans people isn’t harassment. Reposting death threats received from trans people isn’t harassment. You don’t understand what harassment is.
Bluesky doesn't protect queer people in general. I've faced deadnaming, slander, intimidation, threats, and bullying for being femme, all from the same account that Bluesky refuses to shutdown after weeks of filing reports. This is because Bluesky does NOT CARE about the safety of users.
“I’ve faced deadnaming” Lol
Does your mommy know you are using the Internet again?
Do you have any screenshots of what was said against you because none of these screenshots show what the person actually said to you
Bluesky safety here to announce you aren't safe on Bluesky
BlueSky safety here to announce you might be safe if you subscribe to our future subscription! You won't be but who knows? You might!
You spent the whole year building yourself up, and now you're willing to throw it all in the trash over a single disgusting fascist? That's pretty stupid of you
The actual moment people sell out is always like this. It’s never over anything worthwhile.
Honestly, it’s like being given the answer to an already easy question and choosing to give the wrong one anyway. I honestly can’t decide whether to chalk this up to incompetence or malice.
Sounds like you don't want to keep a very small group of people safe, because a very loud asshole is breaking your rules. Sounds like you're gonna make this place unsafe for a lot of us and only the jerks will want to stay. Making this into X seems dumb when the whole point is *this isn't Twitter*
you are all deeply unserious people. I'm disgusted and ashamed by your inaction. you've undone every ounce of goodwill you previously earned. the solution is so fucking simple, ban one specific asshole. you've proven we can't trust you
Oh well, they just said they definitely aren’t going to do that, no matter how loudly and long you guys Bluecry about it. Guess you better find some other site to post on, since this one is going to keep Jesse Singal. Too bad.
Dogshit response hth
For software whose entire design goal is "everything can be moved to a different owner at any time," a policy which says you can only take action if it's on your silicon is inadequate for the task. Distributed software needs policies that aren't undermined by distribution.
inb4 OIG steps to scold Bsky's lack of compliance to uphold HIPAA Trans rights or fuck off
Secondly www.hhs.gov/sites/defaul...
But you say you give us controls so we can moderate ourselves. If I block someone and they continue to circumvent the block to screenshot and instigate pile-ons, I’ve lost that control and the tool is no longer effective.
It would’ve been better to keep saying nothing instead of this. So, so disappointed
why does this sound so familiar.... yeah, its the same crap that was done by the previous social media juggernaut. people with a history of this shit and a STATED agenda of this shit do NOT deserve the benefit of doubt.
more than a fair share of us have promoted bsky as a safe space, if you don't like someone, you can block them. If you're a known harasser or a Nazi, you don't even get thru the door. Now you're going directly against the very features that have exponentially grow you. why?
So you will do absolutely nothing to prevent harassment. Got it.
Weasels
Cowards.
Please for the love of God get your fucking heads out of your asses.
"We can't do anything about this dangerous thing until someone actually gets harmed/killed! We must be fair by not enforcing any community standards whatsoever when dealing with bad actors!"
When you make the choice to fail queer people, eventually all of those people will leave for an app safer and more considerate than yours and you'll have Twitter cesspool 2.0. Do not shit on the minorities who fled Twitter and gave you the popularity and user base you have now.
It sounds like the sort of thing very comfortable, wealthy, tech-brained people without any skin in the game might say. It has the veneer of reason, without the depth of experience. Listen to your users.
I am afraid to say that this does carry the depth of experience, though: their "Trust & Safety" guy is the one who was at the head of the same department in Twitter when they went down this exact same path. He's not making a mistake, but rather taking action he knows will produce the desired result
The only miscalculation this time is that Bluesky Team seems to think they are as powerful as Twitter was and can survive the inevitable fallout, and they are in fact not.
I was gonna subscribe to the platform if they offered that option in the future since they seemed like they were worth supporting. They can kiss that shit goodbye in my case.
BlueSky is populated by people demonstrably willing to walk away from a Twitter-like place that goes downhill, so I guess we'll see how that works out for them
Was this some kind of weird honey pot, then?
I'm going to admit that I don't fully understand the motivations at play; it could be a move to appeal to what they consider "mainstream" more, or it could be a move to force a legal challenge they believe they can win, or it could even be an investor mandate
So what is the point of blocking someone then? This is literally why I left Twitter.
@jay.bsky.team make it make sense!?
Fucking spineless
You should change that to "we will now take action..." It's pretty ridiculous that a known serial harasser is being allowed to skate by because you guys dont feel like doing your job. You're not promoting trust, and you're definitely not leaving folks with a feeling of safety.
Jesse Singal has repeatedly broken your TOS. His entire brand is transphobic statements, it's literally 90% of his content in most media. He has singled out individual users for harassment, including by a terrorist organization that has caused suicides in trans community, proudly and intentionally.
And while I'm at it, every argument in favor of banning Jesse Singal could also be applied to mainstream conservative politicians, religious leaders, and a whole host of anti-trans influencers. Good. Preemptively ban all those evil fuckers.
That was the start of the rot with the other place, "if we were to apply these rules which exclude Nazis we'd have to ban half the elected Republican party". Maybe that's a positive.
Yeah the basic problem is that right wing politicians and talking heads regularly say shit that would get you fired from your job at fucking McDonalds for violating workplace discrimination laws.
Look if there's Twitter for dumbfucks and Bluesky for people who aren't huge societal stains I'm cool with that.
It'd be all the republicans and an overwhelming majority of dems, too. Good riddance.
Absolutely, that was the dinner bell for them. And they could just not be massive abusive assholes, but they choose to be, and thus should have no place in polite society. Bring back shunning.
It's definitely a positive. Conservatives don't belong in the public sphere.
Don’t threaten me with a good time.
You know the "we will protect Jesse Singal even though he actively communicated and spends time with the neo nazi dox forum" policy isn't a good policy.
And we know this is very explicitly a policy that is *ONLY* for the benefit of Jesse Singal because after a week of y'all getting pummeled by not even just trans people en masse but cis people, journalists, professionals about the silence. Aaron likes him, we get it, that much is obvious.
Hey, just letting you know this is a huge mistake and it’s indicative no one on the team actually understands user safety and effective moderation.
Besides, he DID break your TOS for spam and platform manipulation. You decided to MANUALLY adjust it after the fact. THAT’S when people got upset. It otherwise would’ve been taken care of. You gave a known bad actor a special pass for no real reason. We all see it.
Sharing this here, too, but I know you’ve already seen it. bsky.app/profile/myra...
I genuinely hope Singal sues all the accounts like you that spread these lies.
So what you're saying to marginalized people, a lot of them my friends is, "Hi, thanks for building our app up into a good place that can take on the bigger existing social networks. We don't need you now, so $%##@ off." Is that it?
This is more or less what happens to every content-hosting website at a certain point in its growth, from Facebook to Tumblr to Patreon to Twitter to OnlyFans.
Sounds about right
I think that's it. The site isn't demonstrating value and doesn't seem to me worth paying for.
I mean, I can find a straight white male to talk to in the mirror, I don't need the site for that.
This is so disheartening 1. cause I was really liking this place 2. The issues they are dealing with were known BEFORE this platform existed, but they're acting like their in react mode, as if this caught them off guard. It doesn't have to be this complicated to protect people.
they didn't learn from past mistakes
On the contrary: they learned from past successes, on Twitter, whose previous head of moderation they hired to do the same thing here that he did there: declare open season on marginalized people for any fascists who want to come take a pot shot
Ahhh....I see what you're saying and that is absolutely horrible. There's absolutely no way that I could condone or support that.
I think generally speaking we all kinda need to pump the brakes a bit on this. The biggest appeal to this platform is that it's intended to be a federated platform, which should still be what we strive for. The ideal is to put the tools in the hands of the users to control their experience.
Hiring Twitter’s former head of moderation is WILD as a decision for a company that is setting out to “not recreate Twitter.”
Not even their own. Was just reading about the racial slur as user name issue (which I hadn't know about till this week) and their silence there spoke volumes. And here we are again. That said, I've look for JesseSingal here to preemptive block them and they don't show up in my search at all.
same, have they been banned or did i just block him already, or a block list subscribed to did?
Since everything moves like the stock market in here, it feels like there's always a fog of war wrt things in time; like always a possibility that something is happening and we don't know. But that being said, their public actions define their character, so we have to act based upon that information
If you've subscribed to any moderation/block lists, he may be on that, effectively blocking him. Bluesky doesn't show you anything at all for accounts you've blocked.
Ahhh, that makes sense. Thanks!
Which is also really dumb because they built the site based off of an understanding of the past. They're a metasocial media company, dealing with an experience user base that also bring over their followers from other sites. Like, their actions are either naive, stupid or willfully blind.
If this was the first instance, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but I just this week learned about the racial slurs in account names and how they handled that. Seems being naïve isn't the cause here.
No, unfortunately not :/
i might be completely incorrect but I believe Jack Dorsey (who has his own issues etc) said he left the company because people at the top were bringing their own biases & ideals to bluesky which was supposed to be decentralized (so it’s ending up like all other platforms he despises)
yeah here it is: “Jack Dorsey says he quit Bluesky because it was becoming another Twitter. Twitter cofounder Jack Dorsey helped found Bluesky as a Twitter alternative. But Dorsey says he left Bluesky because it was "literally repeating all the mistakes" Twitter made.”
yeah but he got angry because they added a block function, they were the good guys at one point, he never was
oh I absolutely agree ~ i’m just saying that we’re not crazy… the platform has definitely changed for the worse
🤣 ok that was good
Yeah, I don't exactly see what the point is here. The site offered an alternative to twitter and is now becoming that place that everyone left. Like, I *don't* understand what the incentive is to stay here, exactly. We're obviously doing labor for them.
Wow it’s like you’re describing my life.
That is, in fact, exactly it.
I do think a lot of those early users overestimated their influence and how much management actually cared about who was making line go up
At what you’re saying is that it’s ok to doxx your exec team and board on a third party site and then just link it here…
You’re saying this while letting Jesse Singal stay here when he explicitly shared people’s private health info *here*.
This sucks
Why are you even called "safety" when the idea that real-life people are being exposed to real-life danger by your moderation decisions (or lack thereof) seems so alien to you? You seem to have no concept that there are stakes here, no concept of trans people's humanity, no sense of context.
You are choosing not to use information that is verifiable and readily available in making key decisions about the future of your platform? Agnostic of the actual issue here, serious though it may be, this reveals a serious process problem that should be addressed.
The fuck is wrong with yall? What possible reason could you have to keep him on this app
Oh fuck off. He's broken tos on site too. Whatever good will you had built up you are destroying. All the money you would have made if you had made a subscription is drying up fast. Nobody will give a dime when you clearly refuse to even do something as simple and obvious as this.
So you say you want to be transparent without revealing how bad actors can circumvent your rules but then describe how bad actors could circumvent your rules? I haven't been following this much and even I find the lack of action concerning. There's an easy answer here. Keep people safe.
This is a bad precedent to set.
Ok, so, stochastic terrorism is fine then as long as it's not taking place on your actual app. I have bad news for you: this is not going to hold up in court. When something bad enough happens because of this negligence on your part, it will be the end of this business.
You are not a multi-billion dollar company like Xwitter. You will not survive the lawsuits. You will be sued into oblivion, and all of us here are going to laugh at you on whatever platform we migrate to when this one goes belly-up.
Smarten up and have a fucking spine.
This blows. You are just creating Diet Twitter.
Was gonna try out the paid service y'all had rolling out, but now? Lol. Lmao even.
Ban Singal, cowards.
I mean the commentary violated your guidelines within an hour of Singal making an account. The guy is literally currently using YOUR PLATFORM to spread pro-pedophilia messaging. As a CSA and CSAM survivor, I will 100% take you people to the floor legally.
Oh you need a body first before you’ll do anything?
The only people I have seen threatening violence on here have been the anti-Singal crowd who post lurid death threats at him all day while saying him being here makes them “unsafe”
Yep, they're an absolute lynch mob that points to the lack of visible dissent to their bullying as proof there is no bullying and everyone must agree with them Straight up lunatics emblematic of where a large swath of the country/world has gone wrong in recent years
Haha, like they'd do anything even with a body beyond, "We're terribly sorry for your loss, anyways, here's another serial harasser and pedophile we're going to go to the wall defending~"
As long as the killer says "well, yes I did kill him, but it was totally random, not because he was trans or anything, I pinkie promise", they're cool with letting the bodies pile up.
The commentary being protested about is LITERALLY TO INCITE HARRASSMENT you absolute morons.
I've been a Bluesky supporter since June of last year. I was fully willing to pay for a subscription to support a website with active moderation that gave a shit about trans people and made us feel safe. Now I'm not so sure anymore. Please hire some trans employees for your Trust and Safety team.
They could hire me, but I'd likely reach the same conclusions as the current team have
Hire, AND THEN LISTEN TO THEM.
Hope you all get fired and replaced by people with some fucking brains.
what the fuck are you talking about
This whole thing is crap. Getting around blocks violates tos. His harassing commentary violates your terms. Don't be cowards and do your fucking job.
fuck off man
You could tho.
"Tee hee we aren't going to ban the nazis" K then this app is just twitter 2 and offers nothing new or interesting
So harrasment is fine as long as it does not affect your bottom line?
Do you want a Nazi Bar? Because this is how you get a Nazi Bar. You know what the right thing to do is, but you think you can get money from the people who came here to get away from those people and those people at the same time. It won't work. Just ban the hatemonger so can all avoid a Nazi Bar.
You could just stop covering for Jesse Singal.
If the first principle of your T&S strategy is not "What do we need to do to protect THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE on our app?" you are doing it wrong and are merely repeating the same mistakes that every platform before you made. Mistakes that have been instrumental in driving fascism globally, btw.
I hope you shift your alignment on this. People came to this site in hopes of change from Twitter - instead, you've shown yourselves as a poor mockery. If you want this site to survive and not be a complete cesspool, show some moral standing. This response is weak.
So you want to run a nazi bar
Are you fucking serious right now
thanks for telling harassers how to circumvent your TOS, very cool whoever wrote this dogshit.
Hey this decision really sucks!
In my experience, handwaving excuses for a lack of moderator action like this, if followed through as such, tend to precede sharp downfalls in engagement as trust in your site is lost, because we can not rely on you to deal with bad actors. Good luck, I guess, but you should consider being better.
It's the trust thermocline. Once they hit it, there's no going back.
As a general policy, sure, that makes sense. When there's someone engaged in clear, obvious, and consistent bad faith, though, fuck the policy. Do what's right.
So you're saying you have zero issue with this shit turning into Elon's Twitter. Real fucking clown shit.
So organizing harassment campaigns off site doesn't break TOS basically. That's what you're going with. On an app without private accounts
They're telling you how to harass the bluesky team without getting punished for it.
Come on
Sorry about the unacceptable abuse you've been getting. On the whole you're doing well, a lot better than Twitter did even before Musk with a lot fewer resources. I hope you'll be getting some constructive feedback from those who want to help you improve.
There’s something fundamental about functioning democracy that you do NOT understand. Democracy is PRACTICED, and those who violate its practice are a cancer that eventually destroys the whole project. How could you be alive the last ten years and not get this?? Jaw-droppingly naive.
L take. Try again. This time with respect and care for marginalized individuals.
No. You lost. Again. Learn to accept it and move on. Block him and block the safety team. Block me, block everyone that ever interacted with him or me, block your own parents, block anyone who looks at you funny. Once you’re finally finished blocking everyone in the world, you’ll be happy at last.
“Hitler did kill six million people, but he didn’t do it on American soil, so he’s fine”
Does that feel like a fair analogy to you?
does letting bigots who refuse to see reason and campaign to have us erased fester on this site amongst us after we left Twitter to get away from them seem fair to you?
Bad faith
fuck off, the only bad faith ones are the people still pedaling this bigoted shit in 2024 actually! hope this helps 🥰
Thats not how bad faith works
womp womp. support queer people or go fuck yourself
I do :^) and you are here for one reason: to stim on negativity. Mmm yummy hate chemicals mmm
Yes.
This is what you come out to defend? This is the part of the conversation you really felt needed your input? Literature has used hyperbole as long as it’s existed. Stop defending shitty people online.
:/
Pathetic response. Grow a spine and get rid of the trash.
pathetic
Why y'all being a bunch of absolute dinguses?
Make a motherfucking exception. Singal is gaming your rules to attack some of your users and encouraging others to attack those users.
I keep trying to find it but I think he is banned? Or is he ban evading?
No, he's not. If you've blocked him (or subscribed to a block-list that he's on), his account won't show up in searches.
RIP to all that trust and goodwill y’all had built up. Had an easy home run right over the plate, and you didn’t even swing. Nice job.
That's what drives me up the goddamn wall: it's abundantly clear that if we're all here it's because we fled Twitter and those dumbasses copy the exact same bullshit Twitter does. I don't think that the cretins that manage the site realize that we're just gonna fuck off elewhere if they persist.
Pretty sure they're at the point where it's so big for them, that any engagement is good engagement that they can put on a graph with the line going up (nevermind that it's everyone screaming) to look good to investors/advertisers.
Who will these asshole CEOs turn to when this site just becomes Xitter 2.0? The bots are already here, and the only reason ppl are here is because they don’t want to see fascist BS on their timelines (as seen on Twitter). Twitter is mostly bots, and any normal person has left that dumpsterfire
The problem is that advertisers fled Twitter because of the shithole it became and the head honchos of Bluesky are completely fucking delusional if they think that somehow making the site a Twitter clone will bring them here. Most likely they won't bother showing up instead.
Boo
Does inciting your transphobic audience to harass a trans person in your screenshot count?
While evading blocks -- another clear violation.
Sharing screenshots can constitute dogpiling, which is an enforceable violation of your terms of service
Sure, it is, but now like all social media companies have, Bluesky will take cowardice as the better part of discretion and not see it that way, while murmuring bromides about “needing to be more clear on our policies,” and other assorted Jackisms. It’s like we’ve all be raised on this gruel.
Reported for dogpiling Bluesky by screenshotting their terms of service.
Look at it this way: you're planning to monetize this service in the future with subscription upgrades to accounts, right? Who will want to buy those if people like Jesse Singal running around becomes normal? You are sabotaging your future. You are driving yourself out of business.
HOW ARE YOU GUYS ALREADY FUCKING UP THIS BAD
I don't even know what to say to this, I just keep reading it and sighing. What even is there to say to this that hasn't already been said before?? The writing is on the wall.
That is truly disappointing.
So basically “targeted harassment isn’t against our guidelines if the person is sending people here from another platform”. Cool. That sucks.
You guys should probably take a cue from one of the few effective approaches by law enforcement, mainly that most problems are caused by a dedicated minority of people. Singal has already violated the rules. Why dither on banning him? You know he's a hatemonger.
Your own guidelines say: “If your report relies on or relates to conduct that happened outside of Bluesky, please provide links, context, or any relevant evidence in the details section of your report, so our moderation team can take these factors into consideration.” 🤔🤔🤔
Context doesn't matter is what you're saying, then... 🤔🙄
This is completely and utterly sus and you know it.
Y’all have banned infamous bigoted bad actors for doing what is essentially stochastic terrorism before, pretty fast might I add But now suddenly you want to act like “Actually no if you say “Im not touching you” its not breaking the TOS” and for what exactly?
We all recognize the potential that people might screenshot Bluesky posts to share elsewhere in bad faith. But when someone exploits & weaponizes this capability to encourage brigading & the targeted harassment of users on this site, T&S has to take action to limit bad actors’ access to its users.
What the hell?
nah you're messing up here
This is a terrible, stupid, and insanely tonedeaf response. You're essentially saying Jesse Singal being a hate monger and virulent transphobic piece of shit is ok because he's doing the internet version of "I'm not touching you!" Fuck off with this horseshit. Be better Bluesky. Don't fuck it up.
I've been steeping on all this; something that's bugging me is that ya'll are avoiding talking about or mentioning The Guy™️specifically. ya'll aren't even really addressing the controversy, nor providing a solid, defensible argument to support your decision to allow a serial harasser to exist here.
I’m not gonna purchase a subscription until this changes. Way to nuke your company.
I'm just here for the ratio
I don’t know shit and even I know this is dumb as fuck
Yeah, this decision by Bluesky makes the dumbest Reddit mod look like Einstein by comparison.
That really is saying something because as a reddit mod myself I've met some REALLY fucking dumb reddit mods.
I'm a reddit mod too and yeah same, I've seen some mind-boggingly stupid mods around that made me question how they got there in the first place.
So you are seriously just gonna let targeted harassment campaign just go then huh. This sucks and isnt safe.
So you've acquiesced to allowing your site slowly become Twitter. Great job.
this is a speedrun
But like what if you did? What if you actually gave 2 shits about the queer people on your platform? What if you just changed your moderation policy? Ever consider that? No? Well maybe you should!
wack, weak
Sounds like you just revealed to bad actors how to circumvent your systems.
"sharing people's medical information isn't against guidelines uWu"
anyway how many Palestinian accounts that aren't even sharing fn fundraisers have you absolute dorks marked as spam today
I hope everyone who says this goes and finds the information that was actually published, then explains how it's as serious a breach as has been built up without sounding insane.
Jesse didn't share identifiable personal or medical info
you're a bunch of fucking cowards it's been over a week now. and you've let a documented, serial harasser run rampant on your site WHO ARE YOU KEEPING SAFE?!! it's certainly not marginalized users. which is a huge kick in the face, considering we built this place
just give Singal the intolerant/rude label. he's very obviously at least that.
Nah, he's actively doxxing people right now, he has doxxed children's medical information before and unless he's banned he's going to do harm here again.
yeah, you're right
Please give us lockable accounts.
You sure as fuck don't follow that 'unless' for very specific pedo apologists as has been indicated so often that searching "Bluesky Trust Safety" or "Singal" puts a lie to this entire threaded post-facto failed justification.
hey so is block evasion a part of the guidelines or no because yall sound fucking ridiculous rn
Even given your miserable silence for the last couple of weeks, this is a pathetic cop out. Congrats on the twitter ruination speed run I guess. You make me sick.
Do better.
We don’t want Bluesky to be a Nazi bar. Similarly, we don’t want Bluesky to be a TERF bar. Do you?
You're a bunch of cowards enabling a transphobe is hurting people and using the loopholes YOU GAVE TO HIM. Enforce common decency, the thing you're trying present yourselves as, as an alternative to twitter. Why should anyone use bsky instead of twitter if you refuse to make this place better???
all you had to do was ban the one bad actor that people are asking you to ban. showing the user base that you actually care about our safety and privacy. how is this so difficult for you?
Bluesky staff know that if they ban people like Singal, they can't milk a monthly subscription out of them for a premium account later on. They're showing their true colors now that they're successful and there's no reason to expect better of them than Elon at this point.
I mean. They can still make money AND ban these nazi-enabling shitheads.
Milk him *and* his followers. That's who they want. The tens of thousands that will come for front row seats, to watch him trash people.
Maybe they don’t care. Obviously they don’t care enough.
So if Milo Yiannopolous or Stephen Miller or Richard Spencer showed up and just wrote “tee hee” from time to time, that wouldn’t violate the TOS and they couldn’t be banned?
god you guys are spineless cowards and youre going to turn your whole site into worthless server space if you let bad actors have free reign just because they manage to abuse a loophole in your moderation policy. You're people, not an algorithm, think critically and take action to protect your users
I guess the Enshitification starts early on this one.
Damn you really are trying to become twitter 2.
I really don’t understand why it’s so difficult for you guys to just kick the vibe killer out of the bar already
Wow you guys are really messing this up for the sake of protecting scumbags. Thanks for your transparency at least that you don't want to be a good platform.
That's awesome because your tens of millions of new users have flocked here to leave the harassment and vitriol of twitter and you numbnuts have just cemented a path to allow that behavior to eventually develop on your platform. Damn, guess bluesky really isn't that different.
So now I'm wondering because there are barely any ads on this site and the only way ads can really flourish and generate any revenue for you nerds is if you can maintain users to stay and interact as long as possible.
Before X, twitter was literally that. A lot of that harassment was tolerated on twitter as long as it didn't particularly step out of bounds (this means hate speech for you nerds) and the site generated ad revenue, or what little revenue.
All I can really think of is that you guys are still allowing that so you guys can roll out ads on this site eventually! literally nothing has changed! If this site can hold out for that long, it will eventually just become another X. Anything for quick short term profits amiright
Some more food for thought.. If it’s not revenue from ads, it’s the collection and selling of your data that’s being collected from this website. Still, harassing users generate engagement, from there it generates profit from the data we as users create.
This is the biz on running social media! Now you might understand why Facebook has proven to be a billion dollar company that it is. The horrors of social media for instant communication but used to make money off of hatred and engagement! Hello Twitter 2.0! 👋
You have failed miserably at your job. Just shut the site down at this point if you’re going to refuse to take action on one of the easiest moderation decisions imaginable
pussieeeeees
You guys have a chance to be better than all the other platforms. Why are you throwing it away Seriously, how can you be the same as every other failure of a human on this horrid world
This is just embarrassing and you know it
This is absolutely fucking shameful. Are you aware that there are people who can triangulate your position from a tiny piece of building or a landmark accidentally shared? That you could mention that you were going somewhere and then somewhere else casually and someone can triangulate from that?
You don't have to publicly share your information down to your blood type and the type of underwear you wear for someone to know it. If someone wants to know, they will know. Get your shit together and stop blaming people who are victimized, and do your job.
Since Aaron is a man who has clearly never experienced any hardships in his life that it took him an entire week to come up with this bullshit, let me give an example. I mentioned exactly four things once about my previous state. A man turned up at my boyfriend's job after triangulating from that.
You are essentially asking marginalized people not to talk about themselves at all ever. Because you will then turn around and blame them if they do and people use it against them. Good fucking job.
A week ago I was championing this site & saying I looked forward to being able to support it with a subscription. Not any more. Step. Up. Your response is self-contradictory even within this thread, leat alone in comparison to your actual policies re. dogpiling etc. DO BETTER.
This is the exact strategy of organized targeted harassment started by Whitakers neo nazi B.U.G.S and taught to and continued through modern sites like kiwifarms. You know exactly what you are doing.
Congrats, you failed. You failed willfully
This sucks.
You are all complete cowards, BAN HIM.
the amount of support you'll lose from the trans community (and many other marginalized groups by extension) as a result of your policy morally, ethically, and financially outweigh anything you could ever gain by supporting bigots. you are shooting yourself in the foot in every sense of the word
before this, i would have been willing to pay for a subscription to support your site. until you all start having a spine and actually enforce your policies against bigots, i will abstain from doing so and might leave altogether. for your own sake and for ours please fix your shit.
"unless that commentary violates our guidelines"? Cool, so hurry up and ban him then
Exactly, they’re actively giving him special treatment.
Do better
What a massive load of BS excuse making this all is. Trying to get someone else to harass a person who has you blocked is textbook harassment. Reality is you cowards just don't want to act.
I honestly didn't think about it that way? And I say that as someone who's been harassed and stalked for almost a year now. I feel like I might be missing something, do you mind explaining a little more please? (/absolutely genuine, not trying to argue or sealion)
Right Nice to know I'll never be safe anywhere online.
Total pussy shit, try again
You’re willingly giving space to someone that incites violence against a large part of the LGBTQIAP+ community worldwide. As a (Brazilian) cis gay man, I can’t feel safe in an online space that treats my trans sisters and brothers like that. This is very disappointing.
The problem is you're not even enforcing your existing policy when it comes to this harasser of Trans people.
It appears people do not believe you.
They curated a place that smart people like, which also means that smart people can pierce through their bs pretty fast. So now everyone can watch the collapse of their core community in real time. 🚬😮💨
So you're saying it's not against the rules to make a post that says "Have some dox, share widely: [direct, not-previewed link to a page that has someone's private, personal info on it]" ? Fucked up if so.
This is an extremely bad decision. Remove harmful people.
well this seems like a glaring fucking loophole for bad actors to slip through, don'tcha think?
What the actual fuck is wrong with you? This makes zero sense.
Alright, which one of you in there is Elon's sleeper agent?
We all know the account you're talking about because it's one of the most blocked. We all know their modus operandi is to share screenshots of other accounts so their followers can harass the screenshotted people. You are simply destroying the trust we put in this site's moderation.
man you're just never gonna stop doubling down on this, are you
So, basically, you want this place to turn into X after all. Noted.
You understand right that we will leave here too? You fuck up enough and there goes your app. Tumblr still hasn't recovered, Xitter is 90% bots, LiveJournal went up in flames. You aren't special.
Holy hit skeet Batman
Just as a suggestion, @pillowfort.social exists and has paid features that are all 100% by its userbase It too also has nuclear block options that make it impossible for bad faith actors to get a foothold & run away with your words. I recommend it.
I love Pillowfort, I'd use it a lot more often if anyone else used it. Everytime I log in the last post on my feed is from months and mo ths and mo ths ago, and I follow a descent number of people and belong to a few different groups. Iirc tho I don't think Pillowfort allows nsfw
Similarly I also used to use DreamWidth-The LJ clone that popped up after the Strikethrpugh bullshit, but there's hardly any activity. Neocities is also an option I recommend since you can just make it whatever you want.
And there's Spacehey which is a MySpace clone, but I don't have an account and can't say how well the place is run
It does allow NSFW with a few exceptions. One exception is sexual depictions of minors, both real & fictional.
Ah see my problem here is how is that moderated? There are sites that have that stipulation, or stipulations against noncon being depicted but will apply it to "character looks small or has small breasts" or "Werewolf smut counts as noncon" despite what the artist or author intends
Or, like LJ, authors and artists depicting or speaking about their own abuse get penalized. It's generally why I don't support those kind of restrictions. I'd rather have Loli artists exist, and be able to block them, then arbitrary limits placed over Fiction (things that aren't real)
It's why the new Bsky NSFW terms have pissed so many people off, or limitations set by sites like Patreon and OnlyFans and similar.
Oh the Patreon limits are infuriating. It was so rough watching so many artists I love have to go through dealing with that shit.
Yeah unfortunately they do apply that kind of logic to underage *looking* characters too, though I’m not sure how frequently that’s enforced since I have seen a lot of stylized characters that could fit that description but seem to be fine on the platform. Here’s the section in TOS
Ah the "lacks legitimate artistic, political, literary or scientific value" is deeply concerning. That's always a gateway to censoring things the mods personally don't like or queer art being targeted.
From my understanding, this doesn’t apply to writing & pillowfort doesn’t have the same restrictions on stuff like noncon or other “extreme” kinks like Patreon. It’s just the loli art as far as I know, & I personally haven’t seen anyone run into issues with sharing their own experience thankfully
If someone's behavior is so widespread, provable and actively harmful 'off the app' why the fuck does it matter. Nobody here wants these people around. This is cowardly and is seeking the approval of a minority that will never give you it unless you sell to them. Hello, Twitter.
You guys really want to fail huh?
Who wrote this? And what's their address? I'll take my answers off-app
You guys are getting played.
You need to do better. Don’t turn this into a Nazi bar.
Shut the fuck up and ban Jesse Singal
@aaron.bsky.team @safety.bsky.app and @jay.bsky.team You have doomed this site to debt and failure just like Twitter. No one is going to give you a penny because you'd turn around and betray the people who paid you.
So, you are going to put your head in the sand and watch Bsky go to hell :(
bsky.app/profile/shau...
"Hey, I know an entire community is saying this thing and posting evidence, but fuck them and their lived experience, lol"
If someone on another platform is openly posting the equivalent of "hey i'm gonna bring my hate mob over to bluesky to scare the quees away", do you not think that merits some kind of proper official response? Maybe someone who does that shouldn't be welcome here in the first place, perhaps??
unfortunately the official response is to suck
So why do you have the time to go tone policing people?
Bluesky moderation team loves transphobes??? Bluesky moderation team is transphobic????
So jesse singal clearly stating he’s coming to bring people over to harass trans people isn’t clear evidence? Lol
Literally just act like a human and ban an obvious ghoul when you see one. Nobody's going to get mad if a nazi or something gets banned because they didn't TECHNICALLY break a rule. Grocery stores don't post signs that say "don't shit on the floor," but if someone did that they'd wouldn't just shrug
ok so circumventing bans is actionable, right? .... right???
Your willingness to expose your actual user base to a "first on-platform offense" from a widely known, habitual offender in this way is very disappointing.
That isn’t good enough, especially wrt users who have a proven history of abuse and harassment. A thousand people aren’t asking you to ban the guy because he’s unpopular. They’re doing it because he’s actively harmful to our community. Please reconsider this disappointing stance.
That's just revealing to bad actors how to go around the guidelines by organizing harassment offsite.
If you would like to have a functioning, desirable platform, then you cannot continue to play word games when it comes to accounts that exist solely to foment bigotry and launch harassment campaigns against bluesky users.
okay. singals posts, in app, are barely concealed hate speech masquerading as journalism.
you actually don’t need to do this you can just get rid of annoying people based on vibes and remain opaque nobody will put you in jail
This is something everyone wants until it applies to someone they like and they wonder how anyone could ever misread the vibes like that.
yeah but that’s how the internet is supposed to work. Nobody likes the mods and they’re always wrong
Then there's no point in BlueSky doing any different anyway.
Nobody ever likes the mods and you’re going to be unfair and contradictory because you’re human, give up on trying otherwise
So this place is about to be just as bad as the other one
Please girl I’m begging ban the pedo like it’s so easy just kick him out lift leg then kick in butt far away get him out for real make us happy you can do it I believe go girl go give us something to clap for in this new shit soaked world of misery don’t be mad when he brings problems with him henot
Hope you didn't expect a lot of paid users.
Eat shit. That isn't how harassment campaigns work and you lazy fuckheads know it. This shit RIGHT HERE is what will kill your app.
What is the value here, as in, does bsky have beliefs as a company about its purpose here💭
Are you actually trying to insinuate that we can't know if an actor is bad unless they are directly bad on your platform? That's utter nonsense and you know it. The myriad reports cited dozens and dozens of valid, easily verifiable facts about how malicious said person is.
The hardest part of moderation on a decentralized platform is accurate information gathering. Frankly when someone with a public record of being horrible shows up, those are some of the easiest choices. You got direct feedback of community discomfort about a well documented, bad faith agitator.
This kind of fence sitting is just telling the community that clout chasing and star fucking are more important than community safety to the platform owners.
You don't actually. I'm a professional in this field and I cannot emphasize how wrong you are You are a bar. Honey. You're a bar. You are maintaining a social space. You have a responsibility to those who come to your bar in good faith. Jesse does not wish well for your bad. He hates your bar.
What does this mean? Their moderation team can *decide* what type of evidence they need to don't need, and they've decided they need this evidence. A bar can do the same thing.
If someone hates your bar, you kick them out. That's. It. Whoever told you that you need this legal mumbo jumbo is wrong You need a cease and desist to Jesse's ISP I know I'm not asking in a polite way, but please interview me for a moderation team lead position. I will help you
I have a long professional history of making great support structures that persist past me. Has anyone here gotten IT support at the main Thompson Library on Columbus' The Ohio State University? Great you're one of the million plus who've used The Buckeye Bar Which I led the creation of in my 20s.
I was the head of moderation on a c-tier gaming news site, during gamergate I'm telling you, we could have made a stand & that stand would have at least been a zit on the face of that fascist movement Also a really great bartender. Will keep your Magic Commander night pleasant. My DJ sets are dope
I went to a former employers christmas party AND SAMMI HAS TAKES -everyone LOVED seeing/meeting Sammi -some of those people put on 5 CITY years -oddly. None from my support team. They looked good. -it WAS a hit job -they have a worse quality of life w/o me now. Was it me? Mmm. It wasn't not not.
Any time I've really fundamentally conflicted w/ someone, like Wayne telling the shithead That I Just Don't Like You? I've been right. When Wayne said that, it was a moment of lightning like recognition not on THAT level but in the general food court Let's just say I have sad proof. So much. :(
Before they moved the Buckeye Bar to Thompson, we were in Enerson Hall, I was helping a Buddhist visiting scholar w/ his Asus eeePC. Got him online, was really nice. Leaving, he said, may you leave a smell that lasts a thousand years It's always haunted me But not letting it haunt me? Terrifying
The fascists have already decided what they will do to your site and your community The only question is if you rise to it. If not me, get someone like me who has the burns and spits the fire. Or freaking ask your bartender what to do with Nazis. They don't stop with libraries. We're your canaries.
tldr YOUR TRANS BROTHERS & SISTERS WANT TO SAVE YOU SO WE CAN SAVE OURSELVES SO WE CAN SAVE EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO BE SAVED WE WANT TO BE YOUR GIANT QUEER LIVING CMOS BATTERY KEEPING YOUR ZELDA SAVE (& porn!) SAFE WE LOVE YOU AND WANT TO SAVE YOU BECAUSE WE HAVE NO OTHER OPTION IF WE WANT TO LIVE
I want to be clear to you and the rest of the Safety Team: you are WRONG on this issue. You have made a poor decision. I don't know if there's an incentive causing you to make it, but it is WRONG. Your userbase is telling you its wrong. The reports are telling you its wrong. Ban him, move on.
Guess you hogs can't wait to have a little mini-Twitter to roll around in. Hope it'll be worth it to you.
Your community guidelines are based on three principles and you're clearly failing at upholding #2 and #3. Your actions are ignoring user feedback and are not creating a safe and friendly space.
bsky.app/profile/jess...
You're bending over backwards to protect one person spewing hatred, at the expense of the people who built the community backbone of your sight? Wow. That's. Wow. What a dumb long term decision. You see the exodus to your site and don't realize we can leave it just as fast?
Hey why are you guys like, completely fucking this very simple thing up
are you FUCKING kidding me. just employ a fucking "nazi bar" rule and ban the fucker already you fucking idiots
Over the past week, your users have provided indisputable evidence that Jesse Singal is a bad-faith harasser and troll both off your site and on it, and that he clearly violates your site's rules. You are actively choosing to break the rules you set to protect him.
A change.org petition to take a step toward keeping Bluesky safe for normal people by banning Jesse Singal: www.change.org/p/bluesky-mu...
What I'm reading here is that your team needs a critical mass of future trans users to be harmed before you'll act on the presence of a known aggressor, and that instances of prior or current harm are insufficient in this risk assessment.
Consistency needs to not be the primary value here. When so many valuable citizens are clearly at risk, moderation needs to get human and realize its consistent guidelines can never be perfect. Please deal better with this one.
How about consistently reinforcing the rules that accounts created to harass users aren't allowed. And that accounts created by horrible people who are famous get treated the same as nobodies who are horrible.
I dunno why you can't just say that you just don't want to suspend Singal. Like, it's a known fact who he is and what he does. So this silly attempt to act like you are a rigid and consistent enforcer of rules, when you are not. Its ok to just say he's not getting suspended cause you don't want it
Heck, you don't even have to explain anything, you could have just chosen to stay quiet. Instead you come with this excuse about evidence Look, everyone knows who Singal is and what he does. Actually not up to debate. I wonder if it's even possible for a person to be as gullible as you think we are
Maybe just do your fucking job.
If Zogozo says bad things about scumbag you defend, would Zogozo get banned? Zogozo thinks that would be yes.
No. “Consistent enforcement” is code for “we don’t want to upset the bigot brigade.” You are not a court. You do not need to handwring over these issues. Ban the people trying to make Trans folks afraid. Case by case. I don’t care about consistency if being inconsistent makes people safer.
Jesse Signal has done dangerous things on other social platforms and that should automatically cause him to be banned here. He's spread lies about trans people and their healthcare.
No, you don't NEED evidence of anything. You CAN just ban someone dangerous
Ban Signal you absolute cowards
Please please keep this site ‘clean’ - leave bad decisions to other apps.
Does this mean your team will allow the accounts of mass shooters to remain up after identification as long as they didn't violate the rules?
Also they HAVE been banning dozens of accounts for off-site harassment. They know which site I'm referring to. Most of these accounts had no posts at all, just the website's name in the display name.
You mean the bot-Accounts of the website Jesse Signal himself supports?
Yes
So, here's a story. We had a dude in one of my groups that got outed as a serial sex-pest, and we immediately excised him and reported the allegations to the rest of our groups. Most banned him immediately, but one group stated "he hasn't assaulted anyone while at "our" show, so he can stay."
You're being very "that group" right now.
To paraphrase, if you let Nazis in your bar as long as they're "polite" in your bar, you're a Nazi bar.
Fuck you, this is what you’re going out of your way to protect so this piece of shit can use his account to attack trans people who use your website.
This is worthless. Ban Singal or the momentum stops here.
this is exactly the mistake twitter made and it's a very stupid one. there is no good reason to limit moderation to just this platform, we know exactly what we're dealing with
Are you confused that transphobia is bad?
does Jesse have blackmail on one of you guys or something? what the fuck is this response lol
Are you incapable of searching your own app for Jesse Singal to see his posts that 100% stomp all over your TOS? Or are you unwilling to read the various posts that get reported to you? Do better Be better Don’t be Diet Twitter
Nah, the only weakness is that y'all are betraying the trust of your entire community for a bigot.
Well, evidently, they don't need to circumvent your systems. They just need a high follower count.
What’s actually weak is your will to face bad actors who you think might sue you.
Your previous fucking post tells people they can circumvent your systems by doing it off-site.
The post immediately before this one literally tells bad actors how to circumvent your systems in order to harass, abuse, and intimidate your users. You should read it. That last sentence is a doozy.
The worst policy abusers are your best educators
Bad actors on other sites/apps have made a career out of finding loopholes in the rules. Your Guidelines must be robust enough to handle these edge cases that violate the spirit of the rules. Washing your hands of it because it isn't explicitly illegal will just erode trust in the BSky Safety dept.
Maybe the problem isn't how people interpret guidelines, but how you enforce them Maybe you're just not doing enough. And maybe your ToS isn't up to snuff if, as you said, you've gotten more reports than ever the last 2 days and yet you refuse to do anything about it.
this isnt a controversy it's just you guys fucking up
actually its weakness in your enforcement
In the same thread where they point out "revealing to bad actors how to circumvent our systems", they literally spell out how to do it. Are there any adults in the room???
A change.org petition to take a step toward keeping Bluesky safe for normal people by banning Jesse Singal: www.change.org/p/bluesky-mu...
You literally just announced to bad actors you won't enforce harassment so long as it's hosted in another venue, ON THIS VERY THREAD, you absolute clownshoes
"...unless that commentary violates our Guidelines." Which it does! Community Guidelines 1A, 1M, *2A*, 2B
I get the frustration with the fucking dipshits, but: If the people harrassing someone are sharing things off bluesky, ITS NOT ON BLUESKY. so, how are they supposed to moderate people who Potentially DONT EVEN HAVE A BLUESKY ACCOUNT?
You can moderate based on behaviour on other websites.
You moderate the accounts sharing iton BlueSky, who do, obviously, have BlueSky accounts and are subject to moderation. Does dealing with text in images from external sites as part of moderation require more manual review? Yes. Is it intractable? No.
I agree, but that does not solve the other problem, attackers can always move faster than moderation since moderation has to be alerted to harassmet after it has already started.
The problem they are being criticized for is that they not doing – and publicly announcing a practice of not doing – that which is very practical, not that they aren’t managing to do that which is impossible. So, sure, there are problems that are irreducible, but they aren’t the issue.
“Doing what is practical won’t solve every possible problem” is not an excuse for doing nothing when doing what is practical will solve the particular problem people are complaining about.
Thats not what I said. Im not here to pretend they're doing all they can. I litterally said they should do more. And you dont seem interested in actually discussing. So im not going to respond further.
Sure, they can't stop people looking at the site. But if they're publicly known figures they can ban their recognizable accounts from participating in the community they're actively abusing.
Twitch does it, I think.
He is, he has one, and he's been suspended twice already and labeled once, which has also been removed.
Then yes they should ban him, yes; but that wont solve the problem generally. I would love to see it solved somehow but I dont think it can be. bsky is available to the public so its impossible to stop people planning harassment off site (dms, etc) and then coming over here and conducting raids.
Also, they should probably use IP bans so the bans are a little more impactful if they havent already, otherwise idk what they can do on a systemic level other than up their moderation team further and develop beter systems, but that will take time, and will have missteps. Bsky is barely past beta.
it's like a hospital letting in Jason Voorhees after he's killed a couple dozen people outside and he's still covered in viscera.
just fucking ban them. ban the racists. ban the transphobes. ban the accounts posting slurs. ban jesse fucking singal. just fucking ban them.
Yes-If people want that shit they can go back to twitter.
You're gonna rewrite the guidelines so Jesse gets to do whatever he wants, aren't you.
They are already circumventing your systems - read the room.
You also need to either prohibit labelling services or allow users to prevent having their accounts labelled. It's a huge tool for harassment.
You just told them how to circumvent your rules.
You're telling people how to violate the guidelines as we speak.
Fuck you, this is what you’re going out of your way to protect so this piece of shit can use his account to attack trans people who use your website.
hey are you guys just stupid or are you actively endorsing stochastic terrorism here because it could honestly go either way
I think you just need to ban Jesse Signal then. That would clear things up.
