A great addition to my Follow Farmer blocklist

You’re the kind of pussy boy who helped let the holocaust happen.

Aaron there’s a whole ton of troll farms online pushing violence. You respond to one and you get swarmed. It’s insane. Mute them all.

oh noooo the poor cop fell out of a guard tower

self defense is not murder. I thought you'd know that as a lawyer.

Oh good. A pointless beef between two good people that ultimately want the same thing. What a waste of time and energy. This kind of pointless infighting is always a boon to the fascists. Stop giving them what they want. We're all on edge, but taking it out on each other will not help us win.

Alternatively, fuck cops?

PAB!!! there's no sitting around waiting to be killed by these nazis. They come near you masked, not id'd, ATTACK THEM!!!

Not cops. Brownshirts!!

No violence only peaceful protest!

I see no plan for retaking the levers of power, and part of that no-plan zone involves ignoring the ways in which violent acts, particularly murder, tend to play into the hands of fascists. It’s like there is no conscious or unconscious interest in holding power so you can do better things with it.

This forum is being inundated with people calling for violence. In the last week alone I have seen more than 15 such posts. Many of the posters are very young.

First of all the time for talking nicely to the Nazis passed about a decade ago. You are trying to downplay the severity of *concentration camps on US soil* in order to . . . what? Promote a sing-a-long with this subhuman monsters?

Oh I'm sorry has any of your family or friends been taken? No? Then shut your mouth. They wanted a war with civilians and they got it. If cops get it because THEY are refusing to help, then too bad.

I STRONGLY OPPOSE the murder of police officers who clearly follow constitutional guidance & respect civil norms. But our constitution also gives people the right to bear arms against oppressive government and defend against illegal acts by criminals.

It's why I'm simply not saying anything about it. People on social media are simply incapable of not saying the most insane things.

I would be worried if I thought these posters were serious or capable of action beyond keyboard warfare. Thankfully it’s a bunch of rebellion cosplayers playing pretend radicals.

I mean, fine, except they're not cops. They're the American Gestapo. They'll be the villains in a Wolfenstein game before this decade is out.

You are defending the jack-booted thugs, you vile little man. Every response is appropriate. #ICE #Gestapo

The thing is they want someone else to murder cops. Most of these people can't even stand up to their relatives at Thanksgiving.

Excellent point.

Fuck the police. They murder us, ‘bout time we return fire.

police aren't civilians so that's the wrong terminology, but fwiw I agree that the action you're referring to was unwise

Counterpoint As they currently exist cops are an unconstitutional criminal FASCIST organization & active threat to the Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of happiness of every single living being on US soil. Therefore ANY action taken against them is an act of self/community defense 'sic semper tyrannis'..🤷‍♀️

UK here. I thought the idea of the right to bear arms was to protect the people from insurgents like Trump and wotnot

It’s to protect the people against a tyrannical government. So…yeah.

Original idea was for the maintenance of a well-regulated militia for national defense as opposed to a standing army. It's come to be interpreted that way, but mostly by people whose major gripe with the federal gov't is that it isn't fascist enough. And I do believe in a well-armed proletariat.

It wasn’t meant to be about individual gun ownership and even if it may have made sense as a bulwark against tyranny in the late 1700s, even the most bad-ass kitted-out ar15 isn’t going to protect you from a Predator drone or Apache helicopter. It’s all LARPing now. Probably always was tbh.

You're right, we should all give up our only means to fight and surrender now. After all if it's hopeless there's no point in trying, right?

Something about the pen being mightier than the sword... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Di...

Idk if you've just been ignoring the news for the past five months but the courts and laws do not matter anymore. Voting is useless if the legislators don't fucking care

Voting is useless here too. We got rid of the other lot in a landslide only too find they're just the other cheek of the same arse

Yeah, the two party system is shit and it's very unfortunate it won't change anytime soon

Is this directed at me? If so, hey, if you want to go out in a blaze of glory trying to take out some ICE dudes with you good luck I guess. I’ve got minor children at home so you’re gonna have to take a rain check from me

The oppressed remain so until they decide to be otherwise. I'm sorry you cannot make that decision.

lol I’m sure the oppressed will be thrilled to learn you’ve signed them up to get slaughtered in a suicidal act of armed resistance

No, they'll be put in camps like the one in Florida.

So the purpose of owning guns is what again now? I thought you said the oppressed would use them to beat back tyranny?

No, you misunderstood.

Hey, didja hear about the folks in Texas that attacked an ICE facility with assault rifles? Two separate incidents actually. One was a lone gunman, he dead now.

The other involved ten apparently heavily armed anarchists wearing body armor. They all got caught, think they managed to injure one LEO. They’ll probably spend the rest of their lives in federal prison.

Delete your account.

I love that her profile says “love, not hate.” Guess that only goes so far.

Cops/ICE 100% deserve death

How do you know they're really cops if they won't identify themselves tho?

The Nazis started locking people they didn't like up as soon as they took power in 1933, the mass death didn't start until late 1941. Certainly the comparison to 1933 holds, give them time and they'll get there.

Listen I understand legality liability blah blah blah but you're the one who chose to post on a first name last name account and nobody needs to see this actually

Didn't get 'em all, but did an awful lot of blocking.

I agree. Better to focus on the leadership.

People want to have the hottest takes online while not actually doing anything themselves. And being critics of people who’ve thought about this stuff more than most. Also it’s been lawyers and judges acting through courts that have done the most to slow this deportation agenda down.

Why are you imploring? Who do you think is hearing that message? I think it’s just posturing for “most reasonable pundit” award

Your advice isn’t controversial. however, you’re treating that news story with way too much credulity.

if your first instinct after reading that AP story isn’t “the cops are lying,” we can safely disregard your opinions about politics simply because you are too gullible for this world filled with bullshit

Problem is that cops and ICE resorts to extreme violence. When it occurs to you and when this is a life or death situation (which can be the case with them), what do you do to survive? Anything.

You can say whatever you want, in front of cops wanting to abduct you or kill you (in a full fascist state), you just do what you can to stay alive. Tells the cops not to abduct or kill for starters (which won't work).

Root cause of the issue is the fascist state and their agents. If nothing is politically done to prevent them from acting, you can't blame their targets for resisting and you don't get to tell them not to resort to violence.

Another crucial thing is that in a fascist state you don't fight fascist agents with law or justice lol (they will be forced to side with the government - no more power separation heh). You physically stop them and then once they are no more a threat, you fucking Nuremberg them.

Antifascists does not glorify violence, they just understand that sometimes there is no other choices. That sometimes is now in US.

No, you fucking dunces. Please go read a history book or two about partisan resistance in WWII. A lot of it was not confronting the Nazi openly, but perpetrating hidden acts of sabotage. Did individual partisans put themselves at risk? Absolutely. But it was never fighting out in the open.

I am not talking about whether you should act hidden or not. My point is: they won't be stopped by papers, court orders laws.

Shooting fascist is not a good strategy? That depends in which situation you are and the threat level. Of course that should not be considered first but well, in a fascist state you can end up in a situation when you don't have the luxury to choose.

And of course it's better if you can make it so you don't end up in that predicament.

Um… no. Italian partisans learned pretty fucking quickly that openly shooting at the odd Nazi ended in fucking reprisals where the remaining Nazis lined up people in their village or town and shot one out of 10 people as a “lesson”.

So they pivoted to hiding out in the fucking mountains, forests, and very inaccessible places, having people in town covertly spying on the Nazis, and doing covert sabotages of vehicle, supplies, etc. It was (a) more effective at thinning the Nazi ranks and (b) a way to shield bystanders from harm

Again, maybe learning a little of how actual resistance when occupied by your own or another country should be required before people start mouthing off about revolutionary actions. Even during the U.S. it wasn’t just picking up your muskets and shooting, dude.

Just block and ignore these people, there’s no reasoning with them

Fascists ultimately crumble when faced with massive passive resistance.

It’s not murdering cops, it’s defending the 5th and 14th amendments of the United States constitution from those who seek to upend the rule of law.

two things are true: 1: don't self-incriminate 2: fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you

Well of course not as individuals, that would be insane! What we need is to organize a revolutionary peoples' army.

The line is drawn. Trumps side wants violence to justify their own. Playing into his hand may be the eventual result, however, running headlong into it is not going to save lives, just give them justification to take more and play the victim longer.

Yeah I’m sure filing more suits that get tossed by the Supreme Court will stop him this time for sure

The current fight is for transparency and exposure to the light of everything immoral, unethical, and illegal the administration is doing. You don't get that by giving him a pseudo-lawful excuse to curb rights and crack down on dissent. Trump will make a time for that type of resistance. Be patient.

It has been exposed! They aren’t hiding it! The question now is what to do about it. Your dissent doesn’t matter if it doesn’t actually threaten power.

Since there are still on the books means of rebutting or rebuking the government, this is a constitutional crisis that can still be solved with diplomacy. Jumping to violence kickstarts a war and gives the right wing propaganda messaging that they are the heroes. That's what Trump wants.

Is there any point at which you would say it cannot be solved with diplomacy? Trump is already arresting Congresspeople and the right is assassinating politicians.

Yes. When the power of the government is what is assassinating those politicians. When the Sovereign America rises up in anger at the inhumanity of the offenses. Violence risks losing the will and support of the people, and Trump is hemorrhaging that support. Don't give him an excuse to regain any.

Give Trump half a chance to try to overthrow a Democratically elected official and most of the last fence sitters will finally stop holding up his impeachment. He's telegraphing that result for the NYC mayoral race, and his choice will force him to follow through or cower again.

He doesn’t need to overthrow anybody he can just overrule them like he’s doing in LA.

He hasnt displaced the mayor yet, and his antics exposed in this way are turning more people against him daily.

What if Trump never assassinates the politicians and just keeps arresting them? What if ICE keeps rounding up more and more citizens in Democratic voting areas and keeping them in camps?

Then we allow due process to influence the soveriegn. Any rebellion against Trump will fail without popular support of the measure. You overestimate his stature among the people, as shown how his approval ratings still swing. Giving him an enemy who hurts people he can make sympathetic, helps him.

So you support Trump and his minions against people like who attacked the ICE building?

What support does he need other than ICE and the police, who support him 100%?

ICE is behind him 100%. It's the gestapo by another name. They are violating rights, and decency, and that is what needs to be shown to turn popular support against Trump. The Average Americans can be reached, and are necessary to win over or else resistance to Trump will fail, like in 30s Germany.

Welcome to BlueSky.

I didn’t see any cops. I saw a gang of unidentified thugs wearing masks.

Is this really the best response to ICE scooping people off the street and putting them into camps and prisons? Honestly, shouldn't you focus on that?

Mr. Reichlin-Melnick: I have no doubt that you are aware how authoritarianism came about during the 1930s. No one needs to explain it to you. Violence won't solve the problems. John Brown didn't eradicate slavery. He got himself and his people killed. We must stay calm and carry on.

oh i see your error. you're confusing cops and jail workers with human beings! easy mistake to make, don't worry

Lots of energy here, but little sign of effective resistance organizing. Join your local community grass roots group at the entry level, establish your bona fides, and develop your skills. Pitch in. Ranting on the internet only makes you a target.

The most effective strategy for getting rid of an authoritarian regime is by fostering division among it leaders and supporters. "Whichever side...is able to divide the opponent from its main pillars of support will ultimately succeed." So why don't we dedicate our efforts to doing that?

Dachau is the more apt comparison for the new Florida concentration camp, as @charlieangus104.bsky.social has powerfully stated.

The War Saw Ghetto fighters killed cops.

And 99% of them fucking died. Heroic? Sure. A victory? Hell no. They didn’t even make a dent in the amount of Nazis in Warsaw after they were annihilated. I mean, you can’t sit on your hands, but you definitely don’t go straight to shooting at cops either, if you want to have a fighting chance.

In Warsaw, the remaining Jews who were in the ghetto had already had friends, neighbors and family deported, had heard all the stories from the rare escapee, and essentially knew they were gonna die no matter what. Totally different situation, and comparing it to U.S. circa 2025 is kinda dumb.

Aaron, I am going out ot buy three guns, a pistol, a shotgun, and an assault rifle. It should be the last resort, but it's coming. Believe me, it's not just one person thinking about this. Gets some guns and ammo just in case they come to your house for you. Be ready to die for your Democracy.

You’re an apologist for a death camp.

Thank you for this @reichlinmelnick.bsky.social Thank you so much for your clarity. Thank you for your willingness to point this out. I am so grateful for all you do.

The same folks who are constantly talking of martial law are the same ones fomenting the violence that will enact martial law. Don’t talk about killing people. That is not a form of resistance. Full stop.

Are we calling that "bailey-and-motte" argumentation?

I mean I get the visceral pleasure of seeing these people get what’s coming to them, but you’re right, you’ll wind up in jail and they’ll use you as an excuse. That’s not to say we should roll over, but yeah, come on. It’s not yet a civil war, let’s try not to start one…

At no time did he say: stop fighting We must fight! We must fight w peace. We must freaking learn from what Black Americans have taught us for centuries: peaceful protest is THE ONLY ANSWER.

Thank you got this, and for your many level-headed replies down-thread. In addition to the overriding principle that *vigilante murder is bad,* people seem to be missing that responding to state violence with stochastic violence is a win for the authoritarians who prefer to operate on these terms.

Responding to state violence by standing around and watching it happen has always worked out well in the past.

The choices are not just 1. doing nothing or 2. murder!

Also, using deadly force to prevent someone, from getting thrown in the back of a van by a masked gang of unidentifiable thugs, is legally justifiable.

Not just legally, Morally

But that's not what happened and not what we're talking about. We're talking about a *non-hypothetical situation* in which a group lured identifiable people outside to ambush and attempt to murder them. This prevented nothing bad from happening and caused nothing good to happen.

Oh boy do I feel stupid I didn’t dig deep enough into the thread. Yes, of course, ambush bad. Shooting at masked gangs who repeatedly decline to identify themselves while they drag people off into an unmarked vehicle, maybe not so bad imho

Most times, though, you have to punch a bully in the nose or he’ll keep on hitting you.

I am aware of this.

do these people think they can win against the military?

I think at this point people are willing to die rather than be talen alive. And if the victim is willing, the attacker better be too. It isn't about surviving. It's about not being taken alive. Some people know there are fates worse than death. It is way more serious than you seem to be taking it.

If this country had a civil war if bet by the end of the day EVERY country in the world would send military aid to each side, do you think other countries wouldn't do what we have been doing for 100 years to us and fund the side closest to their interests, with guns tanks and planes?

Even if they didn't have a faction in a hypothetical American civil war that aligns with their interest I bet some countries would just send weapons out of spite to put more fuel on the fire, as an act of revenge against the United States.

... of a nuclear state in its own borders? no

what's the last conflict we actually won lmao

I think they can win WITH it for sure.

What a weird way to announce you don’t know what a revolution is or anything about the history of revolutions. 🤷🏼‍♂️

You’re assuming most of the military would go along with a suspension of the constitution. They won’t. Half the military is black and brown. Civil war is a lot more likely than revolution.

Actually yes. Trump is doing the same mistake as Stalin. He`s trying to get rid of any person in the army he considers a threat to his power, but by doing that, he will get rid of any competent person and therefore render the US army completely dysfunctional.

Trump wants to push people there. I have to block at least 3 people who were advocating for violence. The hate is turning people. We need lawyers to help us take Trump et al to court for crimes now. We can’t wait.

I'd advise my friends not to shoot at ICE agents. It's a really bad idea. But I'm not going to be a massive pissbaby if one of these guys gets what's coming to them.

Also, say what you will about cops, but these pricks don't even pretend to do anything good. They are explicitly there to hurt people who are harmless.

Nonviolent movements have been more successful historically anyway, haven't they?

what a tone deaf and misleading thing to say. the vast majority of violence is being carried out BY the police. This post would have people believe they’re not the ones escalating the violence in nearly 100% of cases. it would be more effective to tweet that the police should deescalate violence

whether or not people attack the police there’s still gonna be violence with the police because they’re trained to escalate violence. someone can be 100% peaceful and still be violently attacked by police. to truly end the violence we need to abolish the police in their current form

also just going by common sense it’s dumb as hell to tell the people being victimized to stop the violence. Only the perpetrators of the violence (the police) can stop it

no its not

Can you please implore people to murder cops tho?

I do not condone murder. I do condone self defense in the case of masked, unidentified, un-uniformed people who are trying to kidnap people on the street. If you dont identify youself as police or federal agents, you are neither, dont deserve protection and we should defend ourselves appropriately.

As Joe Strummer said, Murder is a crime unless it is done by a policeman or an aristocrat. But how do we fight back any other way when there are no courts, laws, or other recourse to combat what the police are doing? Strongly object? Strenuously object? Citizens arrests? Is it self defense?

Vote?

maybe. we need to see if we even get to vote again. and for whom? whoever the DNC nominates? how has that been working for us?

that's not a person, it's a bot

Protest; civil disobedience; boycotts; calling your reps; organize. Irregular armies can defeat more conveniently powerful state adversaries—see Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc—but the death & damage the insurgency typically takes on in the process is vast & recovery, if it comes at all, takes decades

We haven't even had a single state-wide let alone country-wide shutdown/ walkoff yet...

Hope the operative word there is “yet”

💯 agree!

Agreed. We have many legal/nonviolent ways to oppose Trump and we should be making use of them all. Last year's movie Civil War is a pretty good depiction IMO of what an actual civil war in the US today would look like. We need to do everything we can to avoid entering that kind of timeline.

I agree that we need to have a very large, nonviolent and legal response. We also cannot be afraid to physically confront the bastards. These people are cowards. They will back down if confronted and wont last long politically if they respond with violence toward civilians. Never again is now

In thinking about direct physical confrontation, who leads the march, who are the main faces of the rally is important. I hope & do genuinely believe that there aren’t many members of any armed security forces in the US that are willing to fire live rounds at wall of moms & boomers.

But oh baby, thats why they signed up to be cops in the first place. They can taste it.

Some for sure, more likely among local law enforcement than the military I think. But even then, *actually* taking the life of an unarmed protestor? Especially if (as I’d assume would happen) it leads to massive protests & nationwide civil disobedience where everyone is going to know your name?

If you’ve got any sense of self-preservation that’s a big line to cross, that’s not something you can just go join the force a couple towns over to escape. There’ll be people who call you a hero, but you’ll never live in peace again.

That last sentence is in a sense aspirational. I can anticipate a cynical reply saying they’ll know peace & never know justice, but ultimately that is up to us

There is a difference between organized mass protest behavior and heat of the moment localized response to gov doing awful things. Im thinking of the latter IRT confrontations. We mustn’t roll over out of deference to authority. How far that goes will be defined by “LEO” behavior, imo

I’ve gone back & forth with black block anarchist types on here about how, while I wouldn’t tell them not to engage in much more confrontational protest, where windows are broken or whatever, there needs to be space for normies (which TBQH I think will be much more effective ultimately)

Looks like a lot of people watched Civil War and don’t imagine being lined up waiting for clean drinking water.

How do you know they’re cops if they won’t show their badge or a warrant?

you have made my list.

They're surprised that a lawyer would advocate for legal challenges and against physical fighting?

With ski masks in and no identification, how do you know they are ICE?

best to let it become an exact mirror of the nazi holocaust before any comparisons are drawn. When they set up execution chambers we can start resisting. Thank you

The murder guys? The ones that protect capital with murder and nothing else? The "random staff" of a place that any human could look at for a moment and identify as inhumane? The brand new ICE agents in cargo shorts and amazon plate carriers that have never been trained? Those ones?

This is just a conversation! We watch video daily of Murder Guys (cops) doing their murders. Then someome *mentions* the idea of resistence and all the world's biggest goobers stumble over eachother to have the first word. "Hey now these violent psychos with guns are humans too." Eat shit.

Great, this guy works with US immigration law. Awesome 🙄

We need a Legion of Luigis!!

Read Erica Chenoweth.

it is more nuanced truly..can't assign the trigger and provocation to others as intent..point is that there may be some people who are disposed to REACT to triggers does not make it right but when it happens you can understand WHY-this not in a vacuum..doesn't make it right which think is your point

We are fighting for the rule of law, not the random slaughter of gunplay

Tone deaf my guy

Where I live police precincts appear to be leaking ICE plans/locations regularly. Apparently there are ppl working there who take the stated purpose of their work seriously, indicating such people exist. Would killing cops from these cop shops be a good tactic?

As in Weimar/Nazi Germany there's a(n exploitable) tension between professional cop culture (like all ppl cops exist and act dynamically on a moral spectrum), and our new SS. As is happening in the US lack of social cohesion allowed the Nazis to wreak massive destruction on the world incl Germany.

maybe they shouldn't be murdering us first

FYI. There are various things about that account that strongly suggest it is a bot and/or troll farm account.

Aren’t these people almost guaranteed to face about 20 years in prison? Maybe more if DHS/DOJ chooses to make an example of them and finds additional charges). I can only assume they knew that was their fate and were prepared to either die or face that punishment.

Man that's crazy. Anyway, you should kys.

I don't think the response is "insane" at all -- unless you think that the Warsaw Ghetto resistance to the Nazis was "insane" what is "insane" about it is that it makes Trump's use of the military seem less like an extreme reaction, and more like a necessary one....

Fascists laugh at those on the left who, despite all evidence, continue to operate under the delusion that America is still a functioning constitutional democracy with rule of law and fair elections.

Cops detaining the wives of ex servicemen, pregnant women and perfectly legal citizens and transporting them to what is effectively death camps in the Everglades, I think people are perfectly entitled to do what they see fit

Even then, there’s still rules: 1. Don’t advertise your own actions. Ever. That goes for before and/or after. 2. Don’t fucking call for anyone else to do the work for you, like a fucking keyboard warrior. Most of the loud losers here are breaking both rules.

Yeah let’s not murder people. Would be nice to change things without a Civil War.

they're already murdering people, matt

So, keep murdering people? Why is that a good idea?

ok matt i know the courts will save us any day now

I guess uh, go forth and kill and we’ll meet in Valhalla? Seriously though please do not murder anyone.

As someone who has faced this tragedy: Still don't believe in killing others or the death penalty.

You can't control how others hear your message. It gets filtered to their own fears. Stay true to yourself.

Honestly why not

Interesting, could you please start a thread where you whine about it for about 30 more skeets? Thanks

They aren't cops.

If somebody in a police uniform refuses to show their face, recite their badge number, and state their name when asked, and that person is violently abducting somebody, I'll assume they are not actually a cop but a violent criminal, and force may be needed to prevent such an abduction.

I'm all for pacifism, but at a certain point you need to ask yourself if it's a strategy that actually helps the victims of fascism, or if it's just helping you feel the self-satisfaction of the moral high ground

Brother man, I hope one day you realize these people are not your friends, and that they most assuredly want to do violence to us, and the only way to prevent that is to do violence to them.

It's impossible to murder cops on account of they're not people.

Nobody murdered a cop. One injured, iirc

cup.columbia.edu/book/why-civ...

I guess the implicit question here is...when will we know when we should be scared? Can you lay out for us what the signals are when this isn't merely a federal policy to be litigated, and enters the territory of horror? Did Jews in Germany know? Did Armenians? Did indigenous people here?

If we have to wait until it ACTUALLY IS Auschwitz, won't it be too late? Isn't part of activism and having laws that we anticipate horrors and overreact on the side of avoiding them? We have laws and police not because everyone is murdering everyone but because we fear the possibility that they will

what a hill to spend hours posting on

🤨 The left can accomplish all of our objectives without any violence whatsoever. That's one of the things that stands in stark contrast to the MAGA death cult.

Violence happens all the time. Those medicaid cuts were violence. What ICE is doing is violence. Our language is hobbled by the expectation that when the powerful do it, it's okay, but when those of us without the backing of the system do it, it's violence. Think hard on your definition.

What ICE is doing is carrying out violence on the orders of an authoritarian regime like the Gestapo. The Dems oppose what they are doing. I'm not sure I need to redefine anything. 🤨

how is that working so far?

Lol where do you think this is heading?

Tell the cops to stop murdering us first

I’ll keep saying it as often as needed - don’t say incriminating shit on the Internet.

if ABSOLUTELY nothing else people need to listen to this one. keep your mouths shut for gods sake.

Also, when I see that someone saying weird shit follows more than 10K people, I remind myself that they’re not using this platform to have a deep, good-faith conversation with me

I just checked and SEVENTY THOUSAND FOLLOWING? I know we don't all use this place the same but good lord woman what are you doing

oh yeah, you definitely shouldn't advocate violence on the internet. No argument. I personally think it would be good if way MORE cops got murdered, but i'm not encouraging anyone to proactively make that happen!

eh

what would you do about the SS and Nazi camp guards?

And at what point will it be acceptable to fight back against Fascist violence?

When they do something like cancel the midterms, arrest Congressmembers or state governors without charge or trial, blatantly ignore SCOTUS rulings, or otherwise violate the Constitution in ways that leave no legal avenues for redress. I know it seems bad now, but we're still pretty far from that.

Right now I see barely any evidence that anyone is going to stop Trump from getting to that point He's already blatantly ignored SCOTUS and other court rulings, insulted the Constitution, and been increasingly confrontational with states You need to understand how fast Democracies fall to Fascism

Make more relevant posts at a time when authoritarianism is destroying the USA. Shout about the insane violence against the poor, the vulnerable, parents being abducted leaving their kids in the street. Might just be more pertinent than lamely bleating about preserving cops' lives.

This is a very funny/dumb thing to say based on who you are replying to.

bsky.app/profile/reic...

The venn diagram of peacocking keyboard revolutionaries and bad faith reading incomprehension is a circle.

I fought in two wars and insurgencies and when a police force pushes past a certain line within a community humans get violent. It’s human. The cops and government are going to cross a line that will start a chain reaction. Sorry to be the bringer of bad news. They can pull back anytime now.

they're fucking nazis you dumb bitch

These places absolutely are concentration camps. Britannica defines them as places where national or minority groups are held by executive order on the basis of ethnicity, and without benefit of indictment or fair trial. Intended to reinforce control and terrorize the populace into submission.

In Germany, concentration camps began in 1933. Extermination camps didn't begin until 1940. We're in the early days, but the atrocities of Nazi Germany also began like this. Calling these places what they are is not to diminish the horrors perpetrated. It's a warning of the reality of the situation.

That person's strawmanning of your position is a reminder that MAGA, unfortunately, doesn't have a monopoly on intellectual immaturity/laziness/dishonesty.

so killing the SS would have been bad

Comparing random staff at the Prairieland Detention Center to guards at Auschwitz is an insult to the memory of the Holocaust. It is not a death camp. We can criticize ICE's actions and fight for due process and justice without diminishing the memory of one of history's greatest atrocities.

No. They are not. Prairieland is a jail and has been in operation for years. Condition are bad, but better than many federal prisons. People are not being systematically executed or worked to death. Comparing it to Auschwitz is ridiculous and insulting to the memory of the Holocaust.

Auschwitz isn’t the only concentration camp in history. Does it have to be the same as Auschwitz? Is that the line?

You should learn some Holocaust history

There's a museum and everything you should check it out dude

"The atrocities aren't yet at Holocaust level, so let's cool it with the criticisms until they get there!"

You're splitting hairs over this? Dude, go examine the absolute shit out of your life, immediately.

He called it a concentration camp. Not auschwitz. I get your position here, but theyre right. You are defending fascist soldier's right to live, and that is fucking disgusting. Log off. Fix your heart

I take your point. But then the question is when the threshold to concentration camp is passed?

Get a job there since it’s so nice

Thank you for your level-headedness. Much needed now.

He’s sticking his head in the sand but alright

His brain is also very level. So smooth and flat.

the point of memorializing it is to pay respects to those who suffered but also to USE THAT MEMORY TO STOP IT HAPPENING AGAIN That *is* honoring it you clown

Does this even warrant a response?

That was true of Auschwitz until it wasn't, Aaron. ICE has discarded any pretense that it deserves the benefit of the doubt in this.

Go fuck yourself, you fascist piece of garbage. #ConcentrationCamps

Auschwitz wasn’t originally a death camp. It turned in to one. You’re contesting the writing on the wall.

You know how and where Anne Frank died, right? I'm really hoping you do. Maybe take a refresher regarding what that place looked and how it was different to standard concentration camps and then come back to us with how Anne Frank doesn't fit the holocaust camp narrative you got going on. Thanks

"People are not being systematically executed or worked to death" Pretty sure the Nazis said that to the Jews as they were boarding trains to the camps, just before they were executed or worked to death.

YET

do you honestly believe they won't become what you would consider "concentration camps?" do we have to wait until they're actually executing people en masse? or maybe we should recognize the parallels earlier. "never again" doesn't mean "wait and see; don't overreact because it's not the same"

This is why it's so important to have congressional oversight and make sure people can visit these detention centers whenever.

Do we need to educate you on death camps and concentration camps and the overall trajectory of ghettos and camps like you're in grade school or...

They didn't start off with the death camps, that was later on when the work camps and prison camps didn't get them the level of compliance they were hoping for. So you should see this as the 1934 version of the camps, not the 1944 version.

at what point would it be considered legitimate to you, bro

All you are doing is working overtime to whitewash what is the early stages of an atrocity. ITS ALREADY an atrocity. We shouldn't wait for it to reach numbers. What the fuck is wrong with you? Just say you're okay with it you fucking freak

I have yet to see anyone explain this logic. Maybe you can. Please explain to me how it's an "insult" to those killed in the holocaust. Because if i had to guess, I'd think those people would APPRECIATE that we are recognizing the pattern of "this is exactly how it started last time, fuck that."

We're both presuming what long dead people would have thought. Sadly, we can't ask them. Most were killed before they could make their position clear. But there WERE survivors and every single one of them I've ever met/heard of had the same message: stay vigilant. Don't let it happen again.

So there are people like you on one side calling it an insult. And there's literal survivor's begging us to take this EXACT threat very seriously. SO THAT we can make sure those millions didn't die for nothing. Given all the context I am VERY FUCKING INCLINED to listen to the actual survivors.

But im not unreasonable. I can be convinced. Explain to me why I should buy into the "insult" line of thought. Use small words. Explain it to me like im 12. I promise I'll listen and AM willing to change my opinion. But you better be fucking convincing. It has to be the best argument you ever make.

But so far every time I hear this "insult to the holocaust" line all I get from it is the same sense of worthless platitudism as "its too soon to politicize this shooting". So EXPLAIN to me HOW it's an insult. I've already heard DIRECTLY from camp survivors. But I'm fair. I'll hear you out.

Hey man, replace “Prairieland” in this posts with “Dachau” and maybe you’ll realize how much water you’re carrying for the fascist death cultists. They’re not systematic death camps yet because they can’t just fucking start with that. You should seriously know better than this.

Use this link to support the defendants and their fight against fascism #FuckICE www.givesendgo.com/supportDFWpr...

It is because of people like you, very self-serious and "cautious" with words, that this situation will get worse before it gets better. I understand the need for precision, etc., but you have completely given up on seeing the end goal for all of this. I don't understand the mindset of someone...

like that. You will see this, nitpick my phrasing around "cautious" for example, and find reason to dismiss out of hand the point I am trying to make. That I am trying to show *empathy* for what you believe. Understanding of someone who deeply cares about empiricism. Yet, you miss the forest for...

the trees. I see no way for you to be convinced, much less in this medium, and much less when you're doubling down and arrogantly pointing at people passionately arguing for the humanity you are ignoring. "Yeah, it's bad, but..." What?! Is ICE not a secret police force to you?

Is this still a legitimate government to you? Is "fascist" still a word too far for you? I talked with a trans lawyer yesterday of the same mind. This belief that things are still normal, will stay normal, will get back to normal, will not get too out of hand, and we should chide the ones...

screaming of the danger. Trans. Post-Skrmetti. Saying this. It's funny, bc I see you as a Dunning-Kruger in the same way you see me. You're "the expert", as indicated by your bio. I'm making too many assumptions. My arguments are too superfluous and abstract. I simply don't know how to reach you.

What I am is disappointed and ashamed of you. I am sad that you post this over-confident nonsense telling people to calm down. You don't seem to be affected in the least by the promises leading up to the election (Project 2025), nor the speed of events this year. You've lost your humanity.

I have so much more to say, and char limits eliminate nuance, but I find *your* posts inflammatory. It's like engaging in genocide denial. You disgust me. I want you to know that. Don't even know if you'll read this, block me, whatever, but you are the "white moderate" who allows atrocities.

Maybe you should consider the difference between a concentration camp, which we had in belgium while occupied by the germans, and extermination camps, which is what the jews, roma and political dissenters got sent to for the "final solution"

you realize the Holocaust started with high-scale deportation schemes right

I see you really putting the "Reich" in your name

true, they are merely being held there before being sent off to countries where they will likely be worked to death or executed.

We are in Us vs Them territory now so instead of looking for nuance shut up and try not to forget which side you're on. Anyone that helps them even a little is a fascist, remember that.

The Nazis didn't start the Holocaust on day 1, they built up to that over years. You can ID Nazi behavior that would become what it was, and it's 90 years since, in a very different world in policy and technology. Gate-keeping fascism descriptors isn't going to stop it.

I hope you see this 20 years from now

in a just world he wouldn’t be able to

Sure all the infrastructure for a genocide is being rapidly assembled and ICE now have a budget bigger than the Marine corps. but until there's definitive proof of death camps we shouldn't be too hasty or go overboard in our resistance to it.

Oh buddy, look up the words concentration camp. Specifically the American built ones. Does the phrase, "Japanese Internment Camp," not exist in your lexicon?

"People are not being systematically executed or worked to death" So your opinion is that Japanese-Americans were not put in concentration camps in the 1940's.

You realize many of the camps were "regular" labor camps for criminals and or political enemies for years before right This is not an all or nothing And that a lot of the notes the Nazis cribbed came directly from us, and from the south in particular, should give pause to any whstaboutism

Okay. Now do deportation flights to hostile countries.

Neither were people in Dachau when it first opened in 1933, several years before the war, it got a similar press release to alligator Alcatraz. It was originally meant for Hitlers political opponents, social democrats, communists and dissidents.

Prairieland was built specifically as an ICE facility in 2017, during the first Trump administration, exclusively for the purpose of holding ICE detainees www.star-telegram.com/news/politic...

Sorry that you want so bad to cover for a genocide I guess. that must be real hard. almost as hard as it is for your neighbors being targeted by it

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

It's important to remember that the Nazis' goal in rounding up undesirables was to deport them en masse, they only started systematically murdering when Allied blockades made deportation impossible Trump's regime is not more moral, it's just operating in more favourable circumstances

They are concentration camps and your denial of this fact actively helps the fascists. Concentration camps don't mean "execution camps". The early Nazi camps weren't even execution camps straight away either. Stop doing propaganda for fascists.

Its the literal definition of a concentration camp. No one said it was auschwitz! The camp we had in WWII for the Japanese is a concentration camp also!

Dachau and Auschwitz didn’t start as murder camps. The fact camps are being built at all should give you pause.

Anyone saying OP is a shill for fascists needs to take a breath and recalibrate. BUT: 1) the idea that people would take affirmative steps (no not advocating murder!) to avert worsening “camps” isnt an insult! 2) OP should realize how thin gruel his rhetoric is to those he’s chastising.

“It has to get to that point before I acknowledge that we should have done something to stop it!”

Does this sound better when you say it in the original German?

You can believe in fighting against police impunity and reducing police violence while simultaneously recognizing that mass shootings and spree killings targeting law enforcement are a stupid goddamn idea that will rightfully get you killed yourself or thrown in prison for the rest of your life.

see up at the top of this you were making a strategic argument that it wasn't helpful to the cause. suddenly it's a moral argument and you think that people who do attack cops should be punished.

*fires off several fatal rounds* Sir, I implore you to stay still!”

So people don't have a right to defend themselves against state terror, then.

It's as simple as extrajudicial killing, like extrajudicial kidnapping, is an unlawful act. Vigilantism implies that the laws on the books have no legality, which is untrue. Support the lawyers and activists that are fighting the good fight and don't suborn law with extrajudicial justice.

Stop posting like this, who is this helping? What point do you think you’re making? Whatever you mean, it comes off as always as you telling victims to be the only ones dying.

Ok bootlicker.

I'm inclined to agree with you on this, but the deportations to El Salvador and South Sudan weigh heavily on me. I do feel like we have crossed a line. And SCOTUS has made legal resistance mostly meaningless

6 SCOTUS justices are still hiding behind procedural bullshit. That's no excuse for their cowardice and they're certainly not reliable allies of liberty. Neither have they caved on the merits... yet. Closest to a merits finding was the 9-0 ruling that govt can't ship ppl beyond reach of courts.

At this point I don't distinguish between procedural rulings and 'merits'. It's blindingly obvious that the procedural rulings are meant to give cover to lawless activity.

Consider this alternative: Procedural rulings are a way to kick the can down the road on confrontation between branches. Pathological avoidance seems almost childish and certainly cowardly. But many Cons have been avoidant and cowardly. They're waiting for a deus ex machina.

It's indefensible because lives hang in the balance. But factually they might be correct. What are the odds Trump dies or is incapacitated before they have to rule on merits? What are the odds Pres. Miller and nominal Pres. Trump have a falling out? etc.

Between the immunity ruling, the deportation rulings, the rulings from 2 weeks ago, and the one yesterday allowing the firings to proceed, I think the majority is fully on board. As to confrontation between the branches, the court has sided with the Executive over Congress every time. They want this

Best to be docile while we wait to be picked off one by one on flimsy or fabricated charges and locked up until we die in their labor camps.

Really putting the "Reich" in Reichlin-Melnick

I can’t believe this would need clarified, but then I also remember students defending AI-written papers because thinking for longer than a few seconds is ‘cap’

And absolutely none of that has to do with a random staffer at Prairieland, nor the responding cop who got shot in the neck.

Yes it does you fucking rat. These people are government agents literally kidnapping and torturing people. Fuck off.

There is no difference between the prison guard and the cop who shows up when someone attacks the camp.

Are there ethical dimensions to being a random staffer at Prarielands? Or the Everglades? Or on an Avelo plane? Is there truly a “random staffer” in any of these genuinely horrible spaces? They 100% do not in ANY world deserve extrajudicial killing. But they aren’t FORCED to do evil, either.

I think the attack was the wrong and evil in and of itself - and the person who perpetrated it made an evil choice. And I also believe that choosing to work in the prison industrial complex is choosing evil.

Why do you think violence by the oppressed against the oppressor is wrong? Is it wrong to kill the perpetrators of atrocity? Why? Who declared it so? Why? What does Jesus think? Why should anybody care?

it's not worth your time or energy to respond to these trolls.

I think what everyone is trying to say is that they're weaponizing our decency against us while they trample on our rights. Stop helping them.

Try not to let these keyboard radicals get to you—- they are deranged and inciting violence and eager for other people to cosplay as revolutionaries and have their lives destroyed by this administration. They’re channeling their anger with their own impotence to attack you.

My God. That account that encourages murdering police officers has 118.7K followers. I have no reason to believe that it's a fascist account pretending to be a Democrat, but, if it were, this is exactly what it would be posting.

What random staffer? Do you mean correctional officer?

yapping dog

Oh no a cop got shot that’s so sad, 😭😭😭😭😭

As @andreapitzer.bsky.social (who wrote a book on the subject) recently explained, a concentration camp is not a death camp. I urge you to read her post, which covers the history and explains why Auschwitz comparisons are wrong. degenerateart.beehiiv.com/p/what-s-in-...

Imagine thinking this is a good hill to die on

hey Aaron, what was happening in Auschwitz from 9/1939 to 7/1941? Would you at least consider the fact that you might be like a German in say December of 1939 saying of Auschwitz "I know it looks bad but trust me guys now is not the time for resistance, not a lot of people are dying there"

The thing is @reichlinmelnick.bsky.social: Auschwitz was both. He was created as a concentration camp and the majority of the people Who perished there along It's plus-4-year running, perished because of the hard conditions.

Sobibor, Belzec, Chelmo and Treblinka were constructed as death camps under Operation Reynard - and they only funciona was to murder people sent there. Auschwitz was not. Diferently that those above, he was under the direct rule of the RSHA

give it a few years

It's not a death camp but it certainly looks like a concentration camp. The Nazis had 40,000 some camps of different varieties.

The first camp at Auschwitz was a detention center The 2nd one erected at Birkenau with gas chambers and crematoriums was built after the Nazis enacted the final solution during the war This mealy-mouthed semantic pedantry serves the purposes of fascism

Well if the name is the most important thing why don't we just name them "Freedom Waterpark Jamborees" and make the whole problem go away?

Auschwitz II was a death camp, I and III were work camps, no? Yes, while this regime is aping some of the early 3rd Reich playbook, it has not made the most egregious moves to disenfranchise people. That said, the ramp-up to the Holocaust was rapid, only spanning a fraction of the Nazi reign

People are dying there. Even if you want to be a pedantic child, this now meets the definition of a death camp.

No it doesn't. Death camp meant people *literally gassed to death* upon arrival. Important distinction. It is a concentration camp in my view tho.

Gas has fuck all to do with the definition. It is where people are sent to be killed. People are being sent there to be killed. The fact that you feel the need to Well Ackshually this situation is telling

Are you a fucking moron? Nazi "death camps" - Todeslager or Vernichtungslager -- exterminated people with poison gas.

Why are you so fucking focused on the means of extermination? Whether they are gassed (as you are so fond of) or if they are denied medical care so they die in detention, the result is the same: they are sent there to die. Fuck, centrists are the fucking WORST

Nevermind, I just saw you are a BlueAnon wacko centrist. Keep normalizing death camps on US soil you fucking turnip

You're thoroughly ignorant and should crack open a book sometime, dumdum

Auschwitz was a concentration camp before it became a death camp.

Did you listen to yourself

I think it's fundamentally naive to think that these concentration camps are not going to be a source of very cheap labor. With a complicit scotus and congress we're just a few EOs away from it. Most of the German concentration camps were labor camps with death as a side benefit.

Very informative article. Thank you for posting it. It cleared a few things up for me. I hope people take the time to read it.

I agree that we aren’t there yet. I’m troubled by the thought that we’re going in that direction; the ball is very much in play with a lot of time still on the clock. Transparency in detention is declining. We could cross that line unaware. Fighting that is worth a lot. What’s effective?

Stalin’s gulags are to me a much better comparison because yes they were work camps but many people died there as a result.

True. Auschwitz was a death camp, not a concentration camp. But it's not like Nazis didn't build plenty of concentration camps as well. And it's not like concentration camps weren't just a stage before death camps came. If somebody is building concentration camps, no alarms raised are unjustified.

You are correct @reichlinmelnick.bsky.social There should be no comparison to the mass killings in the Vernichtungslager. On a side note, even the Nazis were afraid to operate Vernichtungslager on German soil.

In our short lives, our one trip spinning around the sun, I get so confused when otherwise good faith people choose to argue semantics over what to call prison camps

the Holocaust was initially labelled as "taking Jews east for resettlement" btw. this is the pedantic sort of bullshit you're trying to play ftr

Holy fuck are we still doing this "it's not really nazism unless they're wearing Hugo Boss and doing a goose-step"? Like holy fucking shit dude tell us more about how they need to be shoveling bodies into furnaces for you to realize what's going on!

It really has just dawned on me that we are taught there is a meaningful difference between "concentration camps" and death camps because oh wow wouldn't you know it: The U.S. has had its own secret concentration/death camps around the world for oof uh hmmm a long time now.

Fucking libs will spend so much time and energy playing semantic games before they will ever feel the desire to have any principles let alone a spine to just say what is obviously happening. You people are so fucking unless it borders on collaborating.

unless it comes to fighting the left, at which point they instantly become a well-oiled clockwork machine

So what's the plan?

I personally can't imagine witnessing the wide scale detention of "undesirables" into concentration camps and arguing with strangers online about semantics.

How many need to be in these camps, and how bad do the conditions need to be, to start calling for the removal of Trump and his administration? Or will you just quibble over words?

tbf, the last time the US did concentration camps (Executive Order 9066), they didn't become death camps. But they were still heinously wrong and a violation of the constitution. It was Reagan who finally apologised for the egregious excess perpetrated on innocent folk.

Your getting a lot of wild/fascists/murderous type responses on here. I was arguing with one guy about the Texas flood and he said the victims all deserved to die because they where in a red state…and how trump voters should be lined up and shot…pendulum certainly swings both way on social media

Weird thing to say on a post subtly defending concentration camps. Fix your heart.

The original post was him imploring people not to murder or advocate for the murder of ICE agents. He was also saying these detention centers, while terrible , are not the death camps of auschwitz…which is true. ….So I think my heart is fine on this one.

Nah, you are blind to both history and morality. Would you be upset at people arguing for the Nuremberg trials?

So lets get your positions clear. Are you saying these camps are the same as the death camps with Gas Chambers run by the Nazis ? And are you also saying violent ambushes against ICE, with intent to kill, is a good idea?

this is online forever, now.

The Florida camp is halfway to a death camp; the heat and the insect-borne diseases will do a lot of the work. And what are they going to do when a hurricane comes through? Evacuate the camp safely and efficiently?

detention center apologist

mfer said “belsen is bad, but at least its better than auschwitz” bsky.app/profile/reic...

You work for a useless appendage of the democratic party that has failed to even get them to move away from Biden's border policy. Maybe sit the fuck down for a but.

bro’s name is really aaron reich

I don’t care and it doesn’t matter. people ARE DYING there right now and that will increase. These semantic games are a distraction from taking action for intellectuals. Pointless and absurd in the face of attempted genocide here and ongoing in Israel

Why are you worried about semantics when you should PROBABLY BE CONDEMNING THE RACIST AND HATEFUL BEHAVIOR THAT HAS LED UP TO THIS??? HUH??? THAT DOESN'T MATTER WHEN YOU'RE AT RISK OF BEING PUT IN THIS FUCKING SHIT

you lost the second "it's not technically a death camp" became your argument

Bodies are already turning up you fucking goons. Stop being apologists for this. The GOP literally just made the border patrol the largest federal law enforcement agency

It’s a death camp if they intend their detainees to die in it, and they clearly do.

I urge you to pull your head out of your ass.

The Holocaust started as a deportation program. It’s how it started.

OK, it's more of Dachau. Good catch! Do you really think it helps to fight authoritarianism when we discuss WHAT KIND of a concentration camp it is?

Use of extreme hyperbole makes it easier for Trumpers to dismiss concerns.

in a month are we gonna get a piece from you titled “it’s not tear gas, it’s pepper spray”?

If people die there as a result of being kidnapped and imprisoned unlawfully, it's a death camp.

there is a significant difference between concentration camps and death camps, even though people die at concentration camps. they're all bad! but we can still understand that different things are different levels of bad. www.theholocaustexplained.org/the-camps/ty...

I'm not going to split hairs where fascism is concerned. Everyone with a conscience and basic historical knowledge seems to get this.

Not so. A death camp is a place where organized mass murder takes place. It is where people are sent to be executed.

The government of the United States has already been sending people to CECOT. CECOT openly gloats about its role as a death camp that nobody leaves. Now we are building our own death camp where our own government is gloating that nobody will leave, or maybe potentially be fed to alligators.

CECOT is horrible but it is not a death camp. The Everglades camp is halfway there. The alligators aren't much of a threat, but the heat and disease-carrying mosquitoes are.

CECOT is 100% marketed as a death camp. People go there to die while in custody. Nobody markets actual prisons with prisoners dying due to the environment being so hostile, except maybe for Sheriff Arpaio. The threat of death being prioritized for largely non-violent occupants cannot be ignored.

Its not a deathcamp until it is lol The potential is so high for these camps to go from concentration -> death. People's lives are at stake and you're crying over semantics. Fucking dork.

Dachau wasn’t a death camp either. 32,000 people still fucking died there

You are correct, and it is vitally important for you to maintain a defense of unpopular reason & debunking in the face of fear and appeals to pathos. We MUST stick to facts. They are bad enough.

I fucking hate how libs like you keep making this post relevant. bsky.app/profile/auto...

wow really then what were concentration camps?

I've been fighting ICE abuses for years. The Prairieland Detention Center is a jail which has been in use for years. Conditions there are bad, but that badness is on a spectrum in line with conditions in private prisons housing non-immigration detainees, and likely better than federal prisons.

Hey Aaron quick question - would you say the fight is generally being won or lost with the way it's been fought up to now

I’m fully aware of your work, which honestly makes this thread all the more upsetting to read. Shame on you.

You make YouTube videos and post online. STFU

nothing wrong with doing those two things

And she does. Nothing else.

buddy, you're morally and intellectually equivalent to a Holocaust denier

Oh my god your stances just get fucking worse with each post.

How about we abolish the federal prisons and prosecute all the guards for those too?

Shes right, though. Youre defending the right for kidnapper Nazis to be safe at work Whats up with that?

sounds like the praireland detention center should not exist, to me

ICE has been expanding while you've been fighting it so I'm not really sure your approach is working

I think a lot of people have lost faith in our institutions so it's difficult for them to see how battling ICE in court will help anything at this point.

Would these be the private prisons where trannies are auctioned off to violent men to be sex toys against our will until we serve our time or die?

Thhpppt. Calvinball's correct. Trying to parse violent, racist thuggery to avoid some imaginary line of demarcation is... actually par for liberals, whose idea of history is *never right now.* It's always 150 years ago or ahead.

Aaron - you are doing heavy lifting hero work. ♥️ Ignore the noise of people who only want to criticize. It’s part of high anxiety state we’re being forced to live in.

still not beating the hypernormalizion allegations Aaron

Until recently federal prisons were the best funded ones in the country. I have personal experience in a state prison, it was literally hell but still infinitely better than anything I've heard from these private Nazi prisons

it’s been a concentration camp for years and you have been politely lawyering it. and it was not enough. You didn’t do enough.

Would you say things have gotten better or worse in recent years? Now that people have engaged with a problem they were largely ignoring and demanding things get better/more human/less fascist, why are you finger-wagging those joining the fight for people's rights?

wow maybe prisons should not exist

respectfully, whether one should make terroristic threats online has nothing to do with the badness of any particular DHS officer, detention center, etc. one should not make terroristic threats online because it will get you arrested and charged with a crime.

the moral value of the threat / incitement is a separate issue from the fact that its practically a very bad idea. i think your conflation of those two things is what most of your repliers are up in arms about.

Yeah I'm incredibly sympathetic to saying 'this is a very bad strategy' but 'all extralegal violence is bad even in retaliation against the state doing mass extralegal violence' seems far more harmful to me 🤷‍♂️

right. it seems conceivable, based on the historical view of events like the american revolution, harpers ferry, etc, that political violence may be called for in some instances. however, seeing as it is illegal to advocate it with specificity, people should avoid doing that in public! both are true

And you lost/are losing. You're doing great 👍

That was mean and I apologize

I'm sorry you feel that way, but again, conditions which have been bad for decades have not suddenly become comparable to Auschwitz just because Trump is in charge.

Aaron says not enough people died for him to consider a concentration camp bad yet. It's only killing the average amount of people.

Y'all remember when Hitler just gave up because of lawsuits? Yeah me neither

you seem to not know much about the holocaust at all for someone who scolds others for insulting its memory

I truly hope you can look past this need to argue the comparisons of what is and isn’t Auschwitz, and look at what you are normalizing here. Because Auschwitz wasn’t Auschwitz on day 1 either.

bsky.app/profile/thry...

…especially when the people involved openly take inspiration from that example

defending cops is not a good look. you should stop posting

I appreciate your work with immigrants, but I think you really need to reevaluate how you're coming across here. Because right now, it's coming across as pedantry and hurtful to members of the community.

Everyone: What did you do when the horrors were unfolding? Aaron: I policed peoples language.

The rhetoric of intransigence comes from all kinds of zealots. I appreciate you

"zealots" meaning people who oppose fascism?

Yes, some who oppose fascism are zealots

I think you mean heretics. Those that question the divine truth of US exceptionalism.

with the caveat that death camps evolve from concentration camps, and trump/miller seem intent on tracing that same evolution it’s a little cart-before-the-horse but look what happened when the cart was behind the horse

do you just want to wait until they kill people? is that your metric?

He knows they kill us. The question seems to be what is the acceptable body count.

Always that. There’s always a magic number.

I agree. It’s easy, but not accurate, to think Trump is responsible because we see him rounding up nonwhites and putting them in prisons.

"Calvinball Congress" has a trollish anonymous account. When I asked her what work she does, she blocked me. She also has a Youtube account where she posts videos of her spider hobby. She appears on camera but never gives her full real name. That account is only three months old. Beware, folks.

I'm sorry that you feel that preserving belief in US exceptionalism is more important than fighting fascism.

Thank you for being anchored to factual reality.

it can always get worse. there is never a limit to the horrors

These are keyboard revolutionaries

We have a mass deportation program not seen since Nazi Germany, with military in the streets rounding people up, putting them in camps. People are already starting to die in these camps and it’s only 6 months in. It took the US a decade until it said “ok this Holocaust stuff is bad”.

Really Johnny? Why don’t you look at my account and see what I’ve been posting on the topic before you make an enemy out of an ally. Or is that the whole point of your existence? To make people who oppose fascism hate each other? Is that why you’re here? Sure looks like it.

Or are they the next people to assault an ICE facility?

You're right. Dachau would be the more accurate comparison.

I think this is core of the conflation in popular culture with concentration camps and extermination camps. Both are crimes against humanity, but they’re different. Not that I support either. The Florida Concentration Camp is enough to secure Desantis, Trump, and Miller a room in The Hague.

nobody mentioned Trump but God damn does that say a lot about you and the kind of fight we can expect from your org under a Democratic admin

Reading your threads can be exhausting because I encounter so many people I feel compelled to block.

It's insane. And so many of them are malicious trolls. Look at their bios.

They are doing a mass deportation campaign with the largest paramilitary budget on the planet and putting people in cages and letting them die. Maybe you are just discovering that America is actually just a 2025 version of nazism and haven’t figured it out yet.

very shameful thread. you’re right about one thing: people should have put their bodies on the line to stop this years ago. The next best time is now.

The fact they built a goddamn concentration camp with an alligator moat within two months during this admin proves you wrong, man.

protip: it was still auschwitz when biden was in charge

have you been around the last couple months or were you in a coma

The difference is that now, there is no accountability, there is no due process. That means that anyone can be disappeared and killed or brutalized on a whim by the “staff”. You do see the difference, I hope?

The difference matters, compare and contrast. There are similarities. But if the difference is systematic mass murder, it’s a big difference. That said, what’s happening is too similar not to freak out. We know where this road leads.

JP are you one of those folks who say that what’s happening in Gaza isn’t a genocide?

Hell no. Gaza Humanitarian Foundation are US contractors shooting at civilians with the IDF. Our govt has emboldened ethnic cleansing there because they want it here. I’m pretty ignorant on Gaza but it’s very clear Israel govt wants to kill every man, woman and child.

Freaking out is OK. But going on a killing spree is a bad idea. It's counterproductive. It plays right into the fascists' hands.

Deliberate withholding of medical care is a form of systemic mass murder that has already been documented at these camps.

I agree. This regime plays games with laws and reality. The govt claim, callous but with smug pride-people die in custody all the time, we didn’t kill them. Homan already did this. We can’t prove (yet) they intend to kill people despite how clear it is that they want people to die.

I genuinely fail to see how the points I have argued here, which are: 1. Don't do mass shootings 2. Prairieland is not Auschwitz are normalizing anything the Trump admin is doing. Unless it's verboten normalization to explain that some problems have existed for decades and are systemic?

I’m think the point is to get ahead of these things before they become Auschwitz. Because waiting until they do to draw the comparison would be too late. And the current trajectory is really bad, and the speed is really REALLY bad.

Absolutely, but violence is only going to backfire. Wouldn't it make more sense to demand that the media cover these stories correctly, making the comparison to Auschwitz?

ITS A FUCKING COMCENTRATION CAMP, FEW PEOPLE ARE SAYING ITS AUSCHWITZ! Good god man. Fix yourself

You are now liking posts by white citizens accusing people who are standing up for immigrants of being trolls. What are you doing.

Free my people or be silent Aaron.

Guy is CRASHING

Seems like you're the Target du Jour of the Troll Army.

Come *on*, Aaron.

Lord have mercy.

I've "unliked" that post, but in response, I will also say come *on,* you cannot expect people to do a full deep dive on the account of every post they are considering spending half a second clicking like on.

Tá difícil te defender Aaron!!!

Aaron. The way things are now could very easily degenerate into Auschwitz. *Will* degenerate, if the rhetoric the people in charge are using is to be believed. Are you going to wait until they do to draw the comparison, or are you going to try to get ahead of it before they do?

Jesus Christ, man. It'll be easy to say it once it's already ongoing, but it'd be better for all involved to not let it get to that point. How is this flying by you?

So your position is to do mass shootings?

Well when they do then you claim they’re Auschwitz, but for now we’re not quite there yet. Pointless dooming doesn’t help.

As I see it, the problem is that the line is very murky and undefined between: 1. a rolling descent into authoritarianism demanding a political response and 2. Finally reaching the level of authoritarian repression that would demand a different kind of response outside of politics.

I think you’re trying to make a nuanced point about the counterproductivity of trying to take on ICE with guns and are facing backlash from anti-statists who are communicating imprecisely—but understandably so—from a place of anguish and despair.

Your first point is unambiguously correct; nobody should shoot at people. Your second point, I think, is semantic in a way that feels somewhat unhelpful (to some). viz., “is it really helpful to rap people’s knuckles to make sure they compare ICE detention centers to Dachau instead of Auschwitz?”

Which is why you don’t argue with those people. They’ve given in to despair

To #2 What do you think Ochopee is? Auschwitz was like these places before it became an extermination camp, no? They fit the definition of a concentration camp don't they? Prisons house people who were at least given a semblance of due process (excluding the cash bail system).

Simple, it's because you have inaccurately summarized the points you've been arguing, lol

Dude can you read literally one history book? It always starts with walking people down the BS excuse making of "well he isn't doing anything new, well it was always a problem, well it isn't THAT bad yet", and then before you know it we're on the beaches for D-Day. This is a bad look, A.A. Ron.

it sounds like you genuinely dont believe trump is building upon the systemic violence and escalating it in a significant way

Hey Aaron, this thread looks exhausting as hell. Just want to say that you sound very reasonable and the people getting mad really don't seem to know any details. Please keep up the good work, you're an indispensable ally

The Nazis also began their 'work' with mass deportations.

What mass shooting?

You’re a) believing the police narrative when they historically lie as often as Trump when it serves their purposes b) calling one injured a mass shooting c) claiming that what every other human with any credibility is calling a concentration camp is not a concentration camp Strange hill to die on

I can answer both of those. Objectively. 1. People are terrified because the largest cities in America are being occupied. The masked men and the military are working together to pull people off the street into a horrible game of keep away. Terrified people lash out.

2. Alligator Auschwitz is alliterative, but the closer comparison is to Dachau. ICE is blocking access to Congress on a regular basis. We know they aren't designed to be hard labor camps, but I'm not seeing a lot of information on conditions inside.

Just gonna say again: **instead of mass shootings**, the civil disobedience here should be encouraging/facilitating leaks. Our world is made of computers. All the horrifying illegal nonsense is documented in writing; that's why DOJ evaded discovery in KAG. Cockroaches hate sunlight.

Aaron i’d normally mock you at this point but you genuinely otherwise seem to be an alright dude, so I do recommend instead you step back for a few hours (minimum) and kind of think about this stuff and why it may have set so many people off. That’s all. Have a good day.

I am WAY more concerned that the mechanisms of mass deportation will be used for mass deportation than I am about what I believe to be a dramatically less likely outcome of literal Auschwitz.

The mass extermination of the holocaust followed a campaign of mass deportation that was too slow, costly, and logistically complex for the Nazis We've already gone off ine edge and stand at the precipice of something far worse. I'm not waiting to be certain we're going over that one to raise alarms

No one believed Auschwitz was real either until it was.

Aaron I do appreciate your work. Support you in every way. But listen to us! If social media was alive in the 1930s we wouldn't be here. Listen to us!! We feel the sea change in our bones!! History repeats itself!!

Then what's the point of all this lol

This would be a really sharp reply if not for the fact that the Nazis also started with deportations before moving on to murder camps. The Holocaust didn't start as the Holocaust, it became that over time.

Don’t stop the boot from crushing your neck just ask it nicely to step off is not a winning strategy. Fighting back at this point is not sign holding with advanced notice and a permit

Have you considered that this may be a false flag? The attack was timed *perfectly* with the start of narratives on conservative media outlets which effectively serve as regime mouthpieces, eg. The Federalist, about how democrats want “blood” in re detention. I have yet to see real evidence of what

Hey man just a quick question, did the Nazis start with deportations? Yes or no?

theonion.com/holocaust-su...

1. Aaron you don't seem to realize where normie dems are right now, its heads on pikes territory even guillotines. 2. Many of us feel that people like you have a failure of imagination of where this could head & arent taking it seriously enough. Ask women who were told we were hysterical about Roe.

The mechanisms are LITERALLY the same, with all the Prairielands underneath Auschwitz doing their part to make it all happen, JFC. If you won't listen to us, maybe take it from Robert, he may know a thing or two about how governments good and bad operate: bsky.app/profile/rbre...

MASS DEPORTATION WAS THE INITIAL GOAL OF CONCENTRATION CAMPS. Jesus fucking christ. How can you be so fucking dense while understanding that we have used prisons for slave labor and are literally now ramping up to have these be labor camps too. Its an explicitly stated goal of theirs

Does it seem more reasonable that a ramped up ICE operation scooping up hundreds of thousands of people will efficiently deport them to other countries where they will not be subjected to similar detention, or that tens of thousands will die in these camps on US and foreign soil?

The stated goal is all 20 million people and others. Auschwitz became Auschwitz because not only could they not mass deport all the Jews, they were having trouble keeping them alive (sounds familiar). They still had their ethnic cleansing goals with no money for new camps, so they killed them.

Dude they already funded and built the camps and they are filling them now. You don't really believe they intend to deport more people than they will imprison and eventually murder. You want to be careful and not cause your readership to panic. Unfortunately that's not the right response anymore.

I am genuinely struggling to understand what you even mean in this context. I work for an organization that believes that immigration detention is unnecessary and should not be used! Shooting up a random detention center doesn't free anyone.

Would you push back against people referring to it as Dachau instead? I agree that Auschwitz is pushing it but Americans are ignorant and the semantic argument will fall flat on many ears.

The camps were not death camps at first. But the expense of feeding the prisoners was too high and no nation would take them, so the killings were begun. We are just starting down this road, but there seems to be no will to divert away from actual #Genocide

The death camps were death camps by design. The only exception to that is Auschwitz, which had been in operation as a labour camp prior to the adoption of the strategy of mass extermination in camps. The rest of the death camps were never anything else.

As a Jew and a historian, I cordially invite you to piss off. So many people act like the Shoah is this sacred thing, taboo to discuss or reference in any way. It's not. It MUST be studied and referenced - the real insult is ignoring its lessons. Which you are actively doing.

Actively ignoring those lessons, too.

i feel like this entire thread requires a misunderstanding of history so great that you think auschwitz *started* as an extermination camp. like, does he know that?

Suck me from where I fart Aaron

There’s still time to delete this

You’re going to burn in hell. Just want you to know that

You're right, it's not yet as brutal as Auschwitz or Gaza.

If it’s not in Europe it’s just sparkling atrocity, is that right? “Never again,” but only because it’s copyrighted and trademarked?

You are one dumb morherfucker and a Nazi apologist

You need to keep reading to the end of the book, Aaron

there is no moral difference between an Auschwitz guard and a Prairieland guard and the only reason that you think that there is is because you already know what happened at Auschwitz and you're telling yourself that it won't happen at Prairieland

Use this link to support the defendants and their fight against fascism #FuckICE www.givesendgo.com/supportDFWpr...

I sincerely hope your clients have access to better representation. It’s fucking scary that you lack the pattern recognition to see what’s coming

As a Jewish woman, let me say, you're wrong. The camps in Germany didn't start as death camps. They were just rounding up "criminals" and putting them in a camp. Thing is, they'll be labeled criminals just for falling into a certain category. There are very recent examples from this administration.

They're already referring to Latinx people as vermin who need exterminated. This is how it begins.

We can also recognize that you're a fucking moron. The world contains multitudes!

Did you know that nobody died at Auschwitz on the first day? It BECAME a death camp. You may have a great plan for ending this thing long-term, but YOU aren’t the one being thrown into an SUV by a guy in blue jeans and sneakers. What do THOSE people do real-time? Wait for the SCOTUS to fix this?

Not a death camp yet. Are we supposed to wait until it is? Imagine if we could have stopped the Holocaust before the exterminations began. We’re looking at the same patterns here. I’d like to not get to 1941 while it’s still only 1936.

HEY IDIOT. THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS FOR JEWS COMMUNISTS THE DISABLED AND ROMA PEOPLE WEREN'T DEATH CAMPS AT FIRST EITHER, YOU STUPID FUCKING MONSTER.

in my rage, I forgot us queer people too. not killed at first, that happened later. once we were all CONCENTRATED in CAMPS it became easy to kill us. you are enabling fascism with your rhetoric and you go right against the wall with them for it, you piss-baby collaborator.

Does trump need to file an intent to genocide form before we're allowed to make the comparison?

No it’s not, shut the fuck up

It is not a death camp.

You're parting taking in denial of crimes against humanity is more harmful to the legacy of the Holocaust.

it has to come from the Holocaust region of France to be classified as a concentration camp, otherwise it's just a Sparkling Human Rights Atrocity

So we should wait til it officially becomes a death camp? Who declares it as one, because pretty sure people are dying in these detention centers

Besides, if you fight back NOW you instantly become so much cooler than everyone who is waiting for it to become popular.

Hipster uprising

Aaron wants you to wait until Trump’s holocaust is COMPLETED to call it a holocaust. Aaron wants you to let the Nazis cook

Maybe not yet Aaron. Death camps didn’t start out as death camps either. They were “work camps”

heyyyyyy yoooooo this logic would have been used to scold Jewish people prior to awareness of concentration camps; victims of the Holocaust *could absolutely have been saved* if society had reacted rationally and appropriately at the phase that resembled *this*

the only reason i can think of to come in with this take is because they're is some sort of bigotry, discrimination, or population abuse you wanted to keep room for or preserve

this mf like "hmmmaybe again 😏"

Is it an insult to the memory of the Holocaust to compare guards at a nazi death camp to guards at a nazi work camp?

It will be.

shut the fuck up, idiot

People, listen to the analogy sommelier! You have to wait until the US gets to the holocaust phase for you to start comparing it to the nazis! Never tell people you're slave to the grind! Have some respect for enslaved people! Don't say "Joe, you're killing me!". Respect the murdered!

Oh, sure. People will have to wait until mass murder starts. It's not like the Nazis didn't spent years rounding up people in camps until the systematic mass murder started much later. Oh, wait...

I’m not waiting until it’s perfectly obvious in hindsight. They’ve stated their intentions. It’s a concentration camp. It will be a death camp.

"it's not a concentration camp until millions of people die! it's not a gestapo until they've successfully committed genocide!" you are a useful tool for the nazi government, trying to defuse the correct language to use for these murderous racist freaks

Don't attempt to murder law enforcement, but also acknowledge that Auschwitz didn't start off as a death camp.

So it's inappropriate until it actually happens? Let me guess, you're one of those "Trump isn't a fascist!" people, too?

Is the Nazi bootlicking going well for you?

at what point are the people reinforcing the fascist kidnapping and imprisonment fascists themselves, to you. where do you draw the line

So... we must diminish what's being done to humans in this country simply because they aren't Jewish? Is that your point?

No it isn't it's exactly the same.

Florida is a concentration camp, not a detention center

Imagine carrying this much water for concentration camps. Concentration camps were not some impossible unique evil. They were places where Jews were kidnapped to, and eventually exterminated in. We are on the first step for these new camps.

The trolls are gang targeting you …

say dumb shit, win stupid prizes

Shut the fuck up

You understand that the death camps didn't fucking start as death camps you stupid fuck

Brother the writing is on the wall and you're busy lookin at your shoes. Get it together.

You are a collaborationist

>random staff

And while you’re getting into semantics the American Gestapo is abducting more and more people in an eerily similar manner, but if you want to be the Polar Express kid and “erm actually” history repeating itself right in front of you, I can’t stop you

They’re technically not concentration camps. That doesn’t matter. Alligator Auschwitz is and will be used for the same purpose as them. It’s just done different enough so that the right, and you, can say they’re not the same and we’re just being hysterical

I’m so sick of this pedantry. These are American Nazis and they’ve built and are maintaining concentration camps and we SHOULD be making those connections because in private the fascists sure are. Get your head out of your ass you sanctimonious prick

I shall compare them to other functionaries of the Holocaust instead then. This is an example of the deficiencies in how we think about the Holocaust. Too focused on Auschwitz II-Birkenau (the name should tell you it's part of a larger complex), and too confident that it started and ended there.

"It's not fair to compare ICE employees to Auschwitz guards because their camp isn't a death camp" minimizes the fact that Auschwitz III and a whole host of Auschwitz's other subcamps weren't death camps. They were labor camps, in Auschwitz III's case built by/for private industry.

It genuinely does diminish the memory of the atrocity to reduce it down to its most lurid ovens and forget the huge deathtoll to disease, the elements, and forced labor. Shame on you for forgetting the memory of every victim killed by something that wasn't *technically* a death camp.

I respect your work, but this ain't it. It's not an insult to point to where this is going, and Laura Loomer of the "let's kill all the Latinos" comments may be off the deep end but she's off the deep end with *power*, not a street preacher in Podunk. Victims of internment seem to think it's apt.

Not a death camp yet

You would have made an excellent Vogon @reichlinmelnick.bsky.social . Arguing over semantics.

So you're a "just following orders" guy

How many people die in jails because they don't receive medical care, Aaron? How many people are put into fight scenarios by guards at these jails and those incarcerated people are killed, Aaron? Or are you going to tell us these things never happen?

I genuinely cannot comprehend why you're defending the abusive, inhumane, and murderous incarceration system we have. I'm not an abolitionist, and I think there needs to be an incredible amount of reforms to our incarceration system.

You do know that the vast majority of the people incarcerated are because violence was enacted on them, correct? This is utterly, profoundly disgusting.

you are a fool

Neither was Auschwitz, officially. It was a camp for criminals and prisoners of war. Anyone who claimed otherwise was deemed a traitor. The guards were "just" patriotic Germans "protecting" their country from "evil criminals", no different from the concentration camp staff in the US today.

It’s not a death camp YET* The nazi’s didn’t start with death camps either…

The point is that police are not sacrosanct because of their authority; that the violence we owe them is contingent on and proportional to the violence they do first. It’s silly and baffling to declare unilateral ceasefire to people who may or may not want to murder you in the future.

This is literally the same shit. You are a fucking moron.

How many people have to die there for it to be a death camp, oh wise one?

No it isn't.

ok yeah lets wait until it inevitably turns into that to worry I guess

So youre saying we need to wait until millions are exterminated before we can call them what they obviously are trying to be?? We know what they are but you seem intent on trying to obfuscate that

"Never again... at least until the 'again' has already happened and then we can start calling Nazi shit for what it is."

Careful Aaron, these are the words of collaborators

NEVER AGAIN (Ts & Cs apply)

Shut up you twat

this take is gonna age so gracefully

What were they before they were death camps? Death camps didn’t just spring into existence

If you think this isn't just the first step in making it a death camp you are either a naive idiot or willfully ignoring the calls for extermination from the people operating and supporting it. Either way Get Fucked.

yeah, they're just following orders!

It's not a death camp...yet.

This is piece of shit COLABORATOR talk. It is a concentration camp and there are already cases of people dying there. Grow a spine or get your head out of your ass.

hey Aaron, just curious: how are you going to atone for your sins in the event America's concentration camps become death camps in much the same way Auschwitz started as a labor camp for prisoners of war before the Nazis started gassing minorities?

probably by writing some shitty op-ed saying how it was too horrible for us (him) to acknowledge and that blinded us, but now we should not be afraid to call them what they are the “I am a wise sage who sees truth you didn’t it, even though you were yelling it in my big honking clown face” move

People willingly working at these places do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. ICE and DHS and whoever the fuck else who is even remotely connected to these atrocities do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Fuck that and fuck you for trying to launder it you freak.

We need to stop the next one while it's happening not wait. THAT is disrespectful to victims. Just allowing it to happen again. Get right.

The German concentration camps weren't that kind of death camp from the very beginning either. Do you think that's why one of the lessons drawn from the Holocaust may have been "fight the beginnings"?

do you think the guards at auschwitz should have been killed the day before the first execution of prisoners? where, if ever, does your line start on opposing the holocaust?

Yeah its way more accurate to compare it to Dachau concentration camp. Most of the concentration camps were not death camps, those came late in the war.

nah that’s fair. it should be instead compared to dachau.

*Deep breath* 👏shit lib👏

holy shit fuck you

It's irresponsible to pretend the precursors to the holocaust don't count as precursors in modern times because you have some weird exceptionalism view of the holocaust.

It's a concentration camp for victims of a regime carrying out a campaign of ethnic cleansing, first by terror and deportation, with mass death and enslavement promised to follow, but other than that I fail to see any parralels 🤔

This is not only factually inaccurate as people have died but historically misguided. All concentration camps began as prison and work camps during the Holocaust and evolved into death camps. I’ve seen this narrative repeated over and over by Israelis, and Holocaust historians correct them.

You're actually not quite correct - six camps were opened explicitly as extermination camps. They were kept secret, while all the other work camps were common knowledge.