gonna need everyone on this website to preregister their takes on whether a government shutdown is an affirmative good or no
Replies
ok this got Discovered and I’m muting it now but I do think that people should do some thinking on this in advance of the actual event
aug 29, 2025, 4:03 pm • 148 0 • view
Speaking of thinking in advance bsky.app/profile/goof...
aug 29, 2025, 4:10 pm • 1 0 • view
Oh wait I meant 2026 bsky.app/profile/goof...
aug 29, 2025, 4:12 pm • 0 0 • view
actually let’s try followers-only replies
aug 29, 2025, 4:05 pm • 114 0 • view
Uhhh well my wife gets PAID by the government so how long of a shutdown we talking? In theory FOR it, but i like feeding my kids and i reserve the right to make pithy quips in regards to it, waiting for someone with an economics degree to tell me I'm wrong so I can change my view though.
aug 29, 2025, 4:15 pm • 0 0 • view
is she a gov employee or contractor? last time this happened while i was still employed by the feds, my coworkers told me that many banks/lenders will work with you on delaying mortgage payments etc w/o fees etc bc they know the government will pay eventually. otoh who knows nowadays
aug 29, 2025, 5:00 pm • 1 0 • view
Real worker, under 2 years currently (her boss likes her, were counting down until December '26).
aug 29, 2025, 5:02 pm • 1 0 • view
ok yeah, tell her to talk to her coworkers and they’ll have some good advice. i felt way better back in march once i had a clearer idea of what to expect. good luck man, and congrats to your wife for staying employed!
aug 29, 2025, 5:04 pm • 2 0 • view
8/29 take: will be popular with Dems. Messaged right, could be popular with Indies—for a while. Most of shutdown not noticed on Day 1, or even Week 1. By Month 1, ppl start to find out why they have a Federal Govt.
aug 29, 2025, 4:30 pm • 0 0 • view
A shutdown is good if and only if Dems can come up with a concrete demand that the shutdown would give them leverage in achieving. It is very hard in the current circumstance to think what that demand would be (assuming the alternative is more or less a clean CR).
aug 29, 2025, 4:22 pm • 8 0 • view
Separately, I would also like my wife to keep getting paid unless it’s for a good reason.
aug 29, 2025, 4:32 pm • 4 0 • view
Followers only fixes like 99% of the problem honestly. People who will follow to comment and then stay followed happens more often than you might think. It's actively how I've found several journalists I really like on here.
aug 29, 2025, 8:06 pm • 0 0 • view
Shutting down government is always a chaotic evil for the poor and a neutral good for the rich.
aug 29, 2025, 4:52 pm • 0 0 • view
If the Dem demand for a shutdown is basically codifying something against recessions/impoundments, I think they have a very strong hand. Here's what I think has materially improved from March:
aug 30, 2025, 5:58 am • 0 0 • view
1. DOGE was exposed as bullshit. Shutdown in March would've had Elon gloating "Dems doing us a favor, shutdown proves these workers are useless." 2. GOP in Congress will have a tough argument to make: "we refused to codify that our branch of government was pointless"?
aug 30, 2025, 5:58 am • 0 0 • view
3. ICE will have to work without getting paid. More ammo to taunt them and lower morale. 4. Will be a huge wedge issue with MAGA, with the most extreme suggesting Trump just usurp Article 1 powers, or the Senate go nuclear. 5. Trump even needing to parlay with Schumer/Jeffries will do a lot.
aug 30, 2025, 5:58 am • 0 0 • view
Sure. Shut downs suck and are painful. Democrats should force one anyway and explain exactly why over and over and over again. It may not accomplish anything beyond galvanizing their base, but that's still something.
aug 29, 2025, 4:11 pm • 1 0 • view
Gosh! I have privilege.
aug 29, 2025, 5:37 pm • 0 0 • view
I think they should have done it before, and it's even more imperative that they do it now.
aug 29, 2025, 6:05 pm • 4 0 • view
Can we shut down just DHS?
aug 29, 2025, 8:34 pm • 4 0 • view
Can we just shut down your face
aug 29, 2025, 8:41 pm • 2 0 • view
My face isn't government funded
aug 29, 2025, 8:46 pm • 2 0 • view
The money I give your mom comes from the government tho
aug 29, 2025, 8:47 pm • 3 0 • view
Maybe you could shut down my mom then, but probably not.
aug 29, 2025, 8:48 pm • 3 0 • view
Due to copyright infringement I’m being told I can no longer use my nickname for her so let me just say she’s like a rabbit that doesn’t stop
aug 29, 2025, 8:50 pm • 2 0 • view
I say the government should fire all the Fed Chairs and shut down the IRS. Then we let nature take its course.
aug 29, 2025, 8:48 pm • 2 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 8:50 pm • 2 0 • view
I vote just cut off funding for any new admissions to Walter Reed, and fuel for Marine One, ifuknowwhatimsayin.
aug 29, 2025, 4:08 pm • 14 0 • view
I hate government shut-downs no matter the reason. Ironically, that's why I hope it happens. I've been saying for years that a spending cap is unconstitutional. Now, with a fully captured court, maybe we can do away with this nonsense for good. Alas, Tr*mp tends to ignore the courts, so maybe bad.
aug 29, 2025, 5:05 pm • 2 0 • view
In the absence of an enforcement mechanism (shorter CRs?) that would serve to force POTUS to spend the money that Congress appropriates, then yes, I'm officially in the "yes, shut it down" camp.
aug 29, 2025, 4:36 pm • 2 0 • view
It may help illustrate where the current wrecking crew is taking us with their destruction of the government… Would the GOP rise to defend keeping government open? I doubt Dem leadership could execute though.
aug 29, 2025, 4:20 pm • 0 0 • view
in a very strange way it feels like this upcoming fight (or not fight) matters … less? in the current extraconstitutional state where tsarist ukase overrules anything the duma might pass, the maneuvering and stakes become mostly performative — but then shutting down the government has real effects
aug 29, 2025, 5:07 pm • 5 0 • view
… which is not an argument in either direction, but, it changes the rules of the game significantly as Fig notes bsky.app/profile/figg...
aug 29, 2025, 5:10 pm • 6 0 • view
and yea, as you also note, propter … there's going to be a *lot* of sound and fury on that stage but bsky.app/profile/prop...
aug 29, 2025, 5:14 pm • 3 0 • view
i do worry some of the things people thought might happen in March (shutdown as pretext for exec branch to shut things down permanently/take things over) are more likely now—but it's maybe the only card left to play before midterms, and w clear demands would be net good & viewed positively by base
aug 29, 2025, 4:18 pm • 14 0 • view
Hey Duck, thought you were great on Normal Men
aug 29, 2025, 4:39 pm • 5 0 • view
I don't like it. I think it might lead to even more firings that we'll never get back. OTOH it depends on what we'd have to give up to stop it so .. shrug?
aug 29, 2025, 4:08 pm • 1 0 • view
My take: if there is a shutdown Trump will continue to do what he has done for seven months: spend money on what he wants and fail to spend on what he dislike.
aug 29, 2025, 4:20 pm • 23 0 • view
Good, generally in terms of the political outcomes, but bad, specifically for the mental state of a lot of people on this here site
aug 29, 2025, 5:06 pm • 0 0 • view
Anything that gets us to ripping off the bandaid of pain faster is worth it. It's like at some point you have to deal with the infection or you die, therefore, doing it earlier and accepting the initial pain in dealing with it should always be done soonest.
aug 30, 2025, 6:48 am • 0 0 • view
It is an affirmative good. It should not be possible, but as long as it is and the. GOP use it as a gun, they need to find out what happens when they pull the trigger
aug 29, 2025, 11:34 pm • 2 0 • view
Necessary. If we can draw it out to be a fight about RFK, vaccines, and ending all medical research — a good fight to have.
aug 29, 2025, 4:09 pm • 10 0 • view
let's see how long it goes on. a week, fine.
aug 29, 2025, 4:15 pm • 1 0 • view
The problem we have is that I don’t know how we extract demands.
aug 29, 2025, 4:16 pm • 1 0 • view
It's up to the freedoms caucus I guess
aug 29, 2025, 4:17 pm • 0 0 • view
How do you make a demand Optus will honor? Fuck knows
aug 29, 2025, 4:17 pm • 3 0 • view
Also, Rs know they can’t get what they want through real process. They want Vought to steal all the money illegally.
aug 29, 2025, 4:20 pm • 3 0 • view
Goes sideways on us if it’s on other stuff/groundwork not laid.
aug 29, 2025, 4:12 pm • 2 0 • view
Shut it down! Caving in by Schumer and the Appeasement Ten didn't work the last time...
aug 29, 2025, 4:11 pm • 0 0 • view
The other side has majorities in the House and the Senate and has the White House. A government shut-down is never good, but if the people in power can't pass their own bill and refuse to negotiate in good faith, then a shut down is on them. That's my hot take.
aug 29, 2025, 6:23 pm • 8 0 • view
Yeah. I was opposed to the first shutdown, but this is where I am too. Also, this adds to the stuff that Trump hasn't been able to deliver at this point.
aug 29, 2025, 6:26 pm • 5 0 • view
Somebody else made the point that conditioning support on ending impoundments (what that would look like, and whether it's possible, I don't know exactly) is the best strategy and I tend to agree. If they want our votes for a budget, there has to be a commitment to spend that money as appropriated.
aug 29, 2025, 6:31 pm • 5 0 • view
what dictatorial powers are Dems afraid he'll seize in a shutdown? it seems pretty bad to continue to feed the beast
aug 29, 2025, 4:30 pm • 0 0 • view
Affirmative good.
aug 29, 2025, 8:18 pm • 2 0 • view
Not an affirmative good. Might be the least bad result, but often isn't even that.
aug 29, 2025, 2:43 pm • 4 0 • view
Yep. It's a difficult call. I expect the federal government still does some good things, in addition to all the bad things ordered by the god - emperor.
aug 29, 2025, 5:39 pm • 1 0 • view
I mean, I'm primarily annoyed with the people that are mad that the Democrats didn't shut down the government, but also in the same breath are apoplectic at people who think that Republican voters should get to experience the consequences of the policies they voted for.
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Its good. Book it
aug 29, 2025, 5:10 pm • 1 0 • view
Yes.
aug 29, 2025, 2:49 pm • 2 0 • view
Serious question: at this point what would the actual difference be between a government shutdown and the “functioning” of this regime? However, I suppose ICE would continue unabated even then
aug 29, 2025, 5:02 pm • 0 0 • view
Ok not to be Canadian but what's step 2? IS this going to give the right people the right leverage or is this just gonna be DOGE by a different name?
aug 29, 2025, 2:49 pm • 7 0 • view
Let it all burn.
aug 29, 2025, 6:31 pm • 0 0 • view
All tools should be on the table. And it’s worth stomaching some collateral damage to fight the great evil we are up against. Now whether a shutdown is will actually be useful as a tool to resist Trump, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
aug 30, 2025, 6:02 am • 1 0 • view
probably less harmful than it would have been in previous showdown, since the Trump administration - with the support of the Republican Congress - is wrecking the good things government does while expanding the bad ones
aug 29, 2025, 2:49 pm • 7 2 • view
It needs to be done. It’s one of the few tools we have to stop/slow down them weaponizing our taxes against us. They’ve cut the good and pumped up the bad ways the government works.
aug 29, 2025, 6:32 pm • 1 0 • view
I think ill do literally anything else tbh
aug 29, 2025, 2:47 pm • 2 0 • view
In a vacuum, no.
aug 29, 2025, 3:02 pm • 1 0 • view
Depends on what the demand is and the mechanism to enforce it they pick given the admin cannot be trusted. Need a solution to impoundment, RFK jr, rendition, RIFs and DOGE violating privacy act which is a lot and as far I can tell Dems have no clear asks that would solve any of them.
aug 29, 2025, 3:20 pm • 4 0 • view
One path might be a super beefed up GAO with the ability to prosecute but it would need an agreement on who runs it or they will just give it to Marco Rubio as another job he won't actually do.
aug 29, 2025, 3:23 pm • 4 0 • view
My take is forever biased by my personal belief that I should continue to get my veterans benefits and I think federal workers should continue to get paid for their work, I'm afraid.
aug 29, 2025, 4:30 pm • 14 0 • view
And rightly so! The government made a deal. The government should honor its obligations.
aug 29, 2025, 5:20 pm • 2 0 • view
It can be?
aug 29, 2025, 8:42 pm • 1 0 • view
Calling it an affirmative good would be an entirely deranged take. Possibly the lesser evil, but I don’t even think you can reasonably evaluate that until there is a bill to vote for or against.
aug 29, 2025, 2:46 pm • 8 0 • view
But no matter what the bill says, Trump just does what he wants and nobody stops him. So why do the details of the bill matter? No agreement with this regime means anything.
aug 29, 2025, 4:00 pm • 6 0 • view
That’s why my line on whether or not a bill is worth voting for includes anti-rescission provisions including protecting the ability of district courts restore illegal cuts with tros and cutting off the Supreme Court from requiring plaintiffs go to the court of claims individually
aug 29, 2025, 4:07 pm • 3 0 • view
i think congressional democrats (especially leadership!) shouldn’t roll over. it probably results in a shutdown and it’s one of the most clear and obvious messages they can send, both to the admin and also to the public, so i’m on the side of it being good. anything that jams up the works is good.
aug 29, 2025, 4:33 pm • 0 0 • view
It's an affirmative good, but it's also an affirmative bad.
aug 29, 2025, 4:00 pm • 2 0 • view
Is shutdown good? Generally, no. Is negotiating with Rs good? Absolutely no. Is it worth keeping the government open in a negotiation with Rs? Absofuckinglutely not. They want Ds to vote for something, they have to give up quite a bit. Otherwise fuck off and do it yourself. You have majority.
aug 29, 2025, 2:47 pm • 5 1 • view
Why should *we* vote to help *you*?
aug 29, 2025, 2:48 pm • 1 0 • view
And, I’d really like my elected representatives to tell the fascist party just to fuck off. They should do this now, tomorrow, and every day. These people are the enemies of the country. Treat them accordingly
aug 29, 2025, 2:50 pm • 2 0 • view
There is no compromise or working with them.
aug 29, 2025, 2:51 pm • 3 0 • view
Bad short term but beneficial long term, as long as said funding has some boogyman to message on. If the funding is normal it might backfire, but that's unlikely considering *all of this*.
aug 30, 2025, 1:22 am • 0 0 • view
yes
aug 29, 2025, 3:04 pm • 14 0 • view
Yes, it also provides the possibility of further damaging Chuck which I appreciate. If he somehow gets stronger (unlikely) that’ll be ok too
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 1 0 • view
The relationship between Congress and the WH when it comes to funding and disbursement is so broken and mangled who the hell knows what a shut down will look like.
aug 29, 2025, 2:52 pm • 11 1 • view
And federal employment has already been wrecked, and is not in a state that it's ever been in the past so I don't see how anyone can imagine what this shut down would look like.
aug 29, 2025, 2:53 pm • 12 0 • view
Serious question. Are the military occupations impacted by the shutdown? Will soldiers and national guardsmen get paid? I don't think morale is high right now amongst the troops and if life became more difficult during a shutdown then this could become an inflection point
aug 29, 2025, 3:09 pm • 1 0 • view
This is the kind of question that really makes me wrestle with my commitment against accelerationism.
aug 29, 2025, 3:39 pm • 4 0 • view
I don’t see it achieving anything good, but if Dems don’t do it then it’s a sign of weakness. That said there is value in it as a messaging apparatus. Not sure if Dems would be up to the task for the messaging though.
aug 29, 2025, 2:51 pm • 0 0 • view
So not an affirmative good. Even though I’d support it.
aug 29, 2025, 2:51 pm • 0 0 • view
raise 👏 the 👏 salience 👏
aug 29, 2025, 2:42 pm • 4 0 • view
While Trump is in office it is an affirmative good. Pre-registered
aug 29, 2025, 3:23 pm • 35 1 • view
"Oh no why have the republicans done this"
aug 29, 2025, 4:33 pm • 1 0 • view
Depends on whether you think it’d give the WH the ability to pressure Senators to end the filibuster In a vacuum, they shouldn’t vote for a budget they had no part in writing, don’t control, and the admin has made clear they don’t even feel a legal obligation to follow
aug 29, 2025, 3:23 pm • 1 0 • view
Valuable tactic, intrinsically neutral, and once conflict is joined I expect to have no accurate knowledge of how it’s proceeding.
aug 29, 2025, 4:17 pm • 10 0 • view
Something like 10 out of 10 news “updates” will be motivated deceptions by belligerents and everyone on microblogging internet will lose their gourds about every last one. Can’t wait!
aug 29, 2025, 4:21 pm • 10 1 • view
Anyway, start practicing the sentence “gosh, the Republicans sure made a mess of things, didn’t they”
aug 29, 2025, 4:26 pm • 10 0 • view
okay, to get a little more like, psychological about it, I do think that this is ultimately a time for Democracy's Serenity Prayer
aug 29, 2025, 4:30 pm • 4 0 • view
the Reps have a majority in the House, a majority in the Senate, they hold the Presidency, they have an extremely friendly Court. To the extent that they are constrained by the filibuster, they invented and can abolish the modern filibuster.
aug 29, 2025, 4:32 pm • 5 0 • view
To the extent that they are constrained by material reality, the primary theme of their president's last campaign was "I will make everything magically better immediately thanks to the Power of Positive Thinking"
aug 29, 2025, 4:32 pm • 5 0 • view
So, like, here we are! They have won all the power, and now it is time for them to bear all the responsibility.
aug 29, 2025, 4:32 pm • 5 0 • view
"Gosh, the Republicans sure did make a mess of everything."
aug 29, 2025, 4:32 pm • 7 0 • view
Yes. We shouldn’t supply votes to bail them out of their caucus management problems without getting something concrete in return.
aug 29, 2025, 3:02 pm • 0 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 3:09 pm • 0 0 • view
Baller move Haven’t put enough thought into it. But my first pass is it depends. Do the Dems have a strategy, with a defined ask, that they can achieve? If yes, govt shut down good. But they need to make a real case to the US people. In other words unlike the last time. Which was bad.
aug 29, 2025, 2:48 pm • 26 0 • view
Ending impoundment is incredibly specific and core to the preservation of Article I. There can be no higher priority - meaning, all other costs are justified - unless those costs demonstrably outweigh the survival of constitutional order itself, without which we descend into civil war.
aug 29, 2025, 3:54 pm • 2 0 • view
I’d be into that. Propter posted something on that saying it maybe doesn’t work.
aug 29, 2025, 3:56 pm • 2 0 • view
we already have a law that says you can’t do it
aug 29, 2025, 3:56 pm • 6 0 • view
Yeah. I think there was this discussion around the same thing in March. I don’t know if more explicit language can be adopted. Or you have to play hardball and say we’ll defund the WH OMB unless you agree. I dont think we’re at the point where law doesn’t matter at all. There are degrees.
aug 29, 2025, 3:58 pm • 3 0 • view
And if we are at the point where law doesn’t matter. Then Congress doesn’t matter. In which case. Idk they are gonna have to refuse to be seated and we all need to be in the streets (which … sort of).
aug 29, 2025, 3:59 pm • 2 0 • view
Can always amend that law to give it more teeth though
aug 29, 2025, 4:00 pm • 0 0 • view
Yeah, this.
aug 29, 2025, 3:44 pm • 1 0 • view
This is broadly correct, I think. Saying “The republicans control the house, the republicans control the senate, if they want democratic votes on something it needs to reflect x y z priorities” should be pretty straightforward.
aug 29, 2025, 2:54 pm • 13 1 • view
As someone who would not get paid during a shutdown, I think there needs to be one. Schumer & Co. caved in the beginning of the year and Republicans shot the hostages (Fed workers) anyway. The short-term financial chaos wouldn't be as bad (IMO) as letting the R's continue to ignore the law.
aug 29, 2025, 3:45 pm • 3 1 • view
Impoundments are bad and illegal, but keeping the government open for a because Trump pinky-promises to stop doing them is a waste of time. Trump is a liar! If we're going to threaten a shutdown, I'd rather focus specifically on NIH and CDC stuff and rolling back some of the "reforms" there.
aug 29, 2025, 3:24 pm • 1 0 • view
This would be a ripe vehicle for Medicaid money, too. I guess my thinking is "this is a leverage point and we should use it, but if we do let's aim for a small, achievable victory."
aug 29, 2025, 3:25 pm • 0 0 • view
My preregistered take: I don’t fucking know
aug 29, 2025, 4:27 pm • 0 0 • view
2nd try: Shutdowns are ALWAYS bad, Republicans can't be trusted to enact bills and laws that they will follow through on, therefore Dems have no way to end the shutdown that isn't a self-own. I'm of the opinion that Republicans would have to resign for it to be a worthy trade.
aug 29, 2025, 8:24 pm • 0 0 • view
The RNC is fully bought in, at every level, that they can pillage and kill and steal from everyone else as long as they want and the courts will back them up and their voters which they are killing will back them up. How do you trust them to force Trump to actually FUND things? You can't.
aug 29, 2025, 8:24 pm • 0 0 • view
(Reminder that the RNC is so power hungry they have been ejecting any Dem who play bipartisan for over a decade now. So even if you help them, in a purely selfish sense, they will backstab you by the next election as soon as humanly possible. They can't be trusted on any level it's bonkers!)
aug 29, 2025, 8:26 pm • 0 0 • view
It is bad, but it was bound to happen at some point between 2025-2028 so why not now.
aug 29, 2025, 4:57 pm • 6 0 • view
I enjoy thinking about how no matter what happens large portions of this website are going to be furious at Democratic leadership in ways that just nudge up against blatantly racist and anti-Semitic
aug 29, 2025, 4:59 pm • 6 1 • view
Are goons going to miss paychecks?
aug 29, 2025, 5:01 pm • 0 0 • view
The toxic thing I fear is that that there's no place where it moves us closer to where we want. Rs love the destruction and don't care. And we have a too-online influencer class who won't accept that short of kidnapping people, we don't have the votes.
aug 29, 2025, 4:59 pm • 3 1 • view
Indeed. Even the ostensible democrats on this website will not acknowledge that.
aug 29, 2025, 5:00 pm • 1 0 • view
At this point, can’t get much worse; and might be better if it accelerates the occupation of cities to wake up folks before 2026.
aug 29, 2025, 4:22 pm • 1 0 • view
I think it depends on how the pundit spin lands
aug 29, 2025, 4:09 pm • 2 0 • view
It’s an absolute good. The government is fascist shut the fuck down.
aug 29, 2025, 3:03 pm • 0 0 • view
Not yet. MAGA will feel the pain of their lost programs & science eventually. Even Rogan is starting to understand that they’ve been played. Let them call for a government shutdown. Support dem governors in the meantime.
aug 29, 2025, 3:37 pm • 1 0 • view
I think it's good.
aug 29, 2025, 5:31 pm • 0 0 • view
With trump in office? Absolutely not. And it never will be. No "normal" circumstance will EVER come out of something like that with trump in office.
aug 29, 2025, 3:44 pm • 3 0 • view
I don't fucking know, man, I don't know what to do
aug 29, 2025, 4:11 pm • 1 0 • view
In the case of this administration, probably a net good. In general not.
aug 29, 2025, 5:46 pm • 3 0 • view
I'm w Canary let it burn
aug 29, 2025, 5:55 pm • 4 0 • view
Considering what the current government accomplishes when it's open for business, shutting it down seems like a good idea.
aug 29, 2025, 2:44 pm • 3 1 • view
It is never a good thing people rely government services Combine this with all the federal employees running out of their severance pay, and it becomes an economic shock you can’t wish away with an executive order bombing mexico
aug 29, 2025, 6:29 pm • 3 0 • view
Preregistering as “good”
aug 29, 2025, 3:19 pm • 1 0 • view
i don’t know what else is left to try
aug 29, 2025, 5:02 pm • 1 0 • view
A shutdown is BAD. A shutdown will hurt a lot of people. At the same time, it will help Democrats in the fall.
aug 29, 2025, 4:13 pm • 0 0 • view
still no
aug 29, 2025, 4:37 pm • 0 0 • view
The only informed opinion I can register at this time is the courts need to stay open and funded.
aug 29, 2025, 4:46 pm • 0 0 • view
Kobyashi Maru.
aug 30, 2025, 1:52 am • 2 0 • view
If it shuts down ICE, I'm all for it.
aug 29, 2025, 4:15 pm • 1 1 • view
I'm against it. Would largely hurt people and things that are worth protecting, while things like ICE disappearances continue (I would assume). I'm on team obstruct, litigate, slowdown, etc. Gum up the works as much as possible, protest, etc until a national anti-MAGA movement is ready.
aug 29, 2025, 2:48 pm • 5 0 • view
I’m for it. It’s bad but I’m for it. Final answer, lock it in.
aug 29, 2025, 4:16 pm • 1 0 • view
Shut it down. Grinding halt.
aug 29, 2025, 2:42 pm • 5 1 • view
Theoretically yes but it depends on how it's executed, what is the states goal I'd suggest rally a large number of fired fed employees early. They can help legitimize the idea that the Trump govt is already failing at its functions and actively doing harm
aug 29, 2025, 4:16 pm • 0 0 • view
it's a bad thing, but the Dems shouldn't do anything to help - Republicans aren't spending money that's been allocated, aren't holding the WH accountable - why work together with people like that. let them resolve it on their own.
aug 29, 2025, 3:08 pm • 6 0 • view
Re: The Texas town that just got flooded and got all those people killed cause they refused to spend the money Biden sent them to install an early warning system. How in the actual FUCK do you trust the people of the RNC to stand by their word *at all* to even theoretically pass a funding bill?
aug 29, 2025, 8:21 pm • 2 0 • view
suspect these takes are gonna suffer from what is seen and what is unseen - the downsides of a shutdown will be more visible than the upsides.
aug 30, 2025, 12:51 am • 0 0 • view
Yes, and the government should stay shut down for the duration of this congress if necessary. If Trump changes the (highly suspect!) rules on how government shutdowns work, which Carter invented, that's fine
aug 29, 2025, 3:01 pm • 4 0 • view
The GOP has the ability to pass a budget or a CR without a single Democratic vote. So the Dems should withhold their votes. If the GOP can't show solidarity within their own ranks, that's not the Democrats' problem.
aug 29, 2025, 3:24 pm • 2 0 • view
Directly no, indirectly yes
aug 29, 2025, 3:00 pm • 50 1 • view
"Which was yes? Destroy Russia, or number two?"
aug 29, 2025, 3:38 pm • 9 0 • view
I don't think any of the available alternative options are better. The last CR headed off neither the illegal impoundments nor the police state, and the "DC fix" Schumer touted got ripped up the second the Rs got what they wanted- DC still got robbed in the end.
aug 29, 2025, 3:10 pm • 7 1 • view
it's absurd to assume that Rs won't make another backroom agreement to let Trump keep ignoring congressional appropriations, so a CR will wind up just being a shutdown for everything except The Camps.
aug 29, 2025, 3:10 pm • 7 1 • view
If its because of the foriegn aid clawback Trump just did no. That's a trap clear as day. If Dems can message that the foreign aid clawback must be used to restore Snap funding, Medicare, hire back VA docs and nurses etc and Gop refuses then yes
aug 29, 2025, 3:21 pm • 2 0 • view
shutdown bad but democrats shouldn't lift a finger to prevent it without serious concessions that i do not think are remotely forthcoming
aug 29, 2025, 2:52 pm • 8 0 • view
I don't want a single Dem vote to raise it. If I trusted the GOP, it would be fishing for concessions, but I trust the GOP as much as I trust my dog around unattended steak. It's their Congress, let them be the adults.
aug 29, 2025, 5:14 pm • 0 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 3:12 pm • 1 0 • view
It's chemo. Sucks but better than not doing it.
aug 29, 2025, 4:34 pm • 5 0 • view
They should keep it shut down. Nothing Republicans want to do legislatively is positive in any capacity, only serving to codify the executive abuses into national law.
aug 29, 2025, 3:59 pm • 1 0 • view
This admin will not view itself as constrained in any meaningful way by a government shutdown; it will use it as a pretext to eliminate programs and personnel it does not like and will continue to do whatever it wants on other policies
aug 29, 2025, 2:43 pm • 36 6 • view
But does that mean the Dems should try and stop it by funding the govt? No. Nothing you agree to can be counted on. As long as the admin claims impoundment authority there is no point to negotiating anything with them. They claim control. Let the voters see what that means.
aug 29, 2025, 2:45 pm • 39 6 • view
This is the fundamental problem here: no agreement made with Trump can be relied on to be kept
aug 29, 2025, 3:49 pm • 1 0 • view
If you had a relative who was a drug addict and you'd been keeping them afloat despite bad behavior, then you cut them off, then they murdered someone to score, where would an observer's sympathy fall? "Make him escalate so his intentions are undeniable, then underscore them" is not the worst play.
aug 29, 2025, 3:00 pm • 15 0 • view
(If and only if you can underscore them. Americans narrowly disapprove of the immigration policy. I guarantee you he says "Democrats want to open our borders by defunding ICE" and if you go out and say "I want to defund any agency that's kidnapping kids out of schools" you may widen that.)
aug 29, 2025, 3:04 pm • 9 0 • view
This relies on the media to accurately represent a complex narrative. Do not trust them to do that. The basic asymmetry here is that Ds want the government to be effective, while Rs are happy letting most of it fail. A shutdown gives Rs a convenient scapegoat, and the media will run with it.
aug 29, 2025, 3:24 pm • 3 0 • view
I'm not convinced. The media is an unreliable way to get the message out and yes, sadly, also the only one, but they have incentives. That's why you need showboats on this mission, not Schumer and Jeffries. Get Tina Smith to do it, somebody who can speak with some passion and crowd the airwaves.
aug 29, 2025, 3:38 pm • 1 0 • view
There is a point at which it doesn't matter what your people do or say. It's what cable news repeats constantly, what NYT and WaPo choose to headline, what FOX and others decide to lie about... That framing cannot be controlled, and these days it will invariably skew Republican.
aug 29, 2025, 4:44 pm • 0 0 • view
It skews Republican in part because Republicans will give them the blood-and-guts quotes. Lots of reasons, but Ds confusing political theatrics and political persuasion when they're really the same thing is one. "If it bleeds it leads." Complicated formulas for carbon tax credits don't bleed.
aug 29, 2025, 5:01 pm • 0 0 • view
I mean, this might have been true in 1996. Now it skews Republican because mass media has just a few owners, those owners are Republicans, and they like Trump and want to see him win.
aug 29, 2025, 5:37 pm • 0 0 • view
I'm familiar with the phrase. But I will say: the legacy media retains some legacy reflexes, and one is that they do, at least superficially, need to put Democrats on air sometimes when Democrats do something. Far more likely they draw a false equivalence than that they fail to air one side.
aug 29, 2025, 5:57 pm • 0 0 • view
My point is: before you act, you should be 100% confident that the narrative most Americans will hear is "Republicans are doing terrible things, and Democrats are done accepting the unacceptable" and not "Democrats decided to shut down the government". Irrespective of whether you get some airtime.
aug 29, 2025, 9:35 pm • 0 0 • view
Nobody chooses to book even your favorite Dem. Now what?
aug 29, 2025, 4:01 pm • 0 0 • view
She's not my favorite, just a good messenger with a high profile at the right time. Are they not going to book the designated spokesman of the party that started a shutdown DURING the shutdown?
aug 29, 2025, 4:22 pm • 0 0 • view
I don’t have any worries about Dems getting booked if they’re willing to say things that make good television
aug 29, 2025, 4:25 pm • 1 0 • view
Then what is your problem with Trump?
aug 29, 2025, 4:43 pm • 0 0 • view
He makes great TV, right?
aug 29, 2025, 4:44 pm • 0 0 • view
I think this is where I'm at. There can be no good faith bargaining because there is no good faith. If you make a deal with amoral liars there is no way you can come out of it having made progress. You end up looking either stupid or complicit, and in Schumer's case, both.
aug 29, 2025, 2:55 pm • 11 0 • view
One of the first principles of antiauthoritarian activism is noncooperation. So we should start there, across the board.
aug 29, 2025, 2:57 pm • 7 0 • view
Big downside risks, but we're already losing the fight against purges (especially in the critical health and defense agencies) so higher variance strategies need to be pursued.
aug 29, 2025, 4:22 pm • 7 0 • view
Big asks should be statutory reaffirmation of the impoundment control act and clarification that firing independent agency heads for cause has to be directly related to bona fide job qualifications.
aug 29, 2025, 4:27 pm • 6 0 • view
The poor suffer most from such things, so no.
aug 29, 2025, 3:47 pm • 0 0 • view
Just for the rescission nonsense they gotta do it, they have no other choice to protect their prerogative
aug 29, 2025, 3:08 pm • 1 0 • view
On the other hand this might be what the White House has been waiting for to overturn the filibuster, which Senate GOP has had approx zero interest in doing but would actually allow WH to achieve many more of their goals more quickly and with greater legal protection
aug 29, 2025, 3:09 pm • 1 0 • view
I am honestly surprised this has not come up yet - if they wanna do a fascism this is probably the best and most legal way to do it
aug 29, 2025, 3:10 pm • 1 0 • view
The government is already shut down. I don’t see that making it official makes a difference.
aug 29, 2025, 3:50 pm • 1 0 • view
It's good, GOP trifecta. And, as noted back in March, the difference right now between shutting down the government and not shutting it down is mostly in headlines.
aug 29, 2025, 3:50 pm • 7 0 • view
I’m going to be a filthy opportunist and decide after a few days. /joke More seriously, this shit is too chaotic to get an exact answer or prediction; whatever happens will happen. Hopefully it’s not terrible.
aug 29, 2025, 3:28 pm • 1 0 • view
A *light* one maybe. Undecided here
aug 29, 2025, 3:46 pm • 0 0 • view
I don't think it will ever be an affirmative good because a lot of good people are going to be going without paychecks, but strictly strategically, the admin clearly didn't want one the first time it was a distinct possibility, and I can't imagine that's changed.
aug 29, 2025, 2:45 pm • 3 0 • view
A lot of good people already are, people that Congress said pay. They have shut down while agencies that were funded. The Dems get no guarantees no matter how they vote.
aug 29, 2025, 3:58 pm • 1 0 • view
Whatever happens I don't want the mixed messaging of the CR vote
aug 29, 2025, 3:02 pm • 1 0 • view
Id take a deal to avert a shutdown if, and only if, johnson/thune release a surprise (to their caucus) public statement criticizing the house/senate gop for being complete fuckups who made compromising with dems a necessity. Otherwise, let the people get the government they voted for
aug 29, 2025, 4:13 pm • 0 0 • view
whichever approach dem leadership goes with will turn out to be the wrong one
aug 29, 2025, 3:24 pm • 2 0 • view
Shut it down and call a general strike when it happens.
aug 29, 2025, 3:33 pm • 0 0 • view
Does a shutdown stop payments to national guard / ICE agents?
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 0 0 • view
NG almost definitely not, ICE probably not
aug 29, 2025, 3:24 pm • 0 0 • view
Then shutdown seems net bad
aug 29, 2025, 3:44 pm • 1 0 • view
Yes Even though the obviously correct move by republicans is to not shut down and ignore the Carter era interpretation of a funding lapse. If that happens they should cave because destroying that is a good thing, and the optics of trying to force a shutdown after it become way worse
aug 29, 2025, 5:26 pm • 0 0 • view
I’ll say “no.” The political tactic can work if the broad public perception is that *the other party is responsible for the shutdown*. For a lot of reasons, reflected in (and maybe b/c of) the fact that many here are clamoring for democrats to take action to cause this, that’s not going to happen.
aug 29, 2025, 3:57 pm • 5 0 • view
Schumer’s biggest blunder last time was expectation setting b/c he didn’t think Johnson could pass a CR in the House without D votes. He underestimated Johnson and got caught flatfooted.
aug 29, 2025, 3:57 pm • 5 0 • view
IMO the question here, assuming a mostly clean CR from the House, is really whether Schumer wants to force the Senate to blow up its rules to pass the CR and in the meantime take public heat for causing a shutdown. That’s a loser on both counts.
aug 29, 2025, 3:57 pm • 2 0 • view
All distinct from “should democrats vote for the CR itself to help them pass it on an up or down vote” which is “no.”
aug 29, 2025, 3:59 pm • 0 0 • view
For me, I have the same take i did last time: they're good if there's a target you can plausibly achieve via shutdown and scrutiny. Last time that was allowing DC to use its own money instead of functionally stealing it. That would show you're fighting and also deliver a tangible, gettable benefit
aug 29, 2025, 2:59 pm • 13 0 • view
And yet they never even got that!
aug 29, 2025, 3:29 pm • 5 0 • view
It’s objectively terrible, but probably not much worse than what’s down the path we are already on. So on balance, maybe good.
aug 29, 2025, 4:36 pm • 0 0 • view
Needed bad.
aug 29, 2025, 2:41 pm • 3 1 • view
Oh, years of lawyering has prepared me for this one: it depends.
aug 29, 2025, 2:43 pm • 151 2 • view
Thank you for your service
aug 29, 2025, 3:01 pm • 4 0 • view
my economics training make me say the same thing
aug 29, 2025, 2:47 pm • 52 0 • view
Historian here- it definitely depends.
aug 29, 2025, 2:59 pm • 42 0 • view
Someone get a Political Scientist on the line!
aug 29, 2025, 3:26 pm • 19 0 • view
I'll let you know as soon as the polling data gets back
aug 29, 2025, 3:47 pm • 25 0 • view
This is why I prefer political theory In a state of nature, a shutdown…
aug 29, 2025, 4:13 pm • 16 0 • view
All I know is my gut says "maybe"
aug 29, 2025, 4:07 pm • 7 0 • view
As a philosopher, I will say that it is morally right for the Dems to not provide the votes to fund the government for the authoritarian leader
aug 29, 2025, 4:32 pm • 6 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 6:39 pm • 1 0 • view
Yes! Not only will it stop Trump’s illegal coup, but will show the country the limits of his power. Once people realize he’s not a dictator, more will stand up to him.
aug 29, 2025, 5:06 pm • 0 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 3:45 pm • 0 0 • view
It will cause a lot of pain, but this is the time to do it. Trump will respond badly, and it has a real chance to crater his approval ratings to an untenable level
aug 29, 2025, 3:27 pm • 1 0 • view
I am for it. Though it’s going to be painful in a lot of ways. Dems must make them own their own doings. There is no reason to trust the administration with the funds allocated.
aug 29, 2025, 3:10 pm • 4 0 • view
i think it would be bad if donald trump and the republican majority in congress shut down the government
aug 29, 2025, 4:25 pm • 138 7 • view
Yeah. This is where I’m at. The GOP has a trifecta. With great power comes great responsibility. The Dems cannot force a shutdown (nor should they). But they don’t have to help the GOP either. So is the GOP a governing party or a sack full of numpties? I know what my money’s on!
aug 29, 2025, 4:29 pm • 31 0 • view
Well I think that would be good!
aug 29, 2025, 7:23 pm • 1 0 • view
It might not come back this time.
aug 29, 2025, 5:41 pm • 1 0 • view
lol'd
aug 29, 2025, 4:29 pm • 3 0 • view
Either way, we’re fucked because no matter how Dems play it, it’ll get spun by a media as their fault for any bad outcomes. Personally? I’m for keeping shit open just for the courts but there’s no way that happens without a poison pilled CR.
aug 29, 2025, 4:29 pm • 1 0 • view
Depends on what still keeps running?
aug 29, 2025, 2:59 pm • 13 0 • view
But uh chaosh ish a ladder rn
aug 29, 2025, 2:59 pm • 16 0 • view
i just worry Thiel acolytes will just break into every government office while they're shutdown
aug 29, 2025, 3:03 pm • 12 0 • view
I think the not-unreasonable rejoinder to that is: they are already doing that (see e.g. how a federal judge didn't enjoin DOGE from entering USIP because she thought they wouldn't do anything and then "well they're already THERE stripping the wires" was used as justification for handing it over)
aug 29, 2025, 3:07 pm • 18 0 • view
Like it was at least a colorable rationale the first time a shutdown loomed, because we didn't know how things were going to play (even if we could make a reasonable guess) but now I think we're firmly in "they're doing it anyway and none of the institutions are standing so we need to add friction."
aug 29, 2025, 3:12 pm • 10 0 • view
Exactly yeah
aug 29, 2025, 3:24 pm • 4 0 • view
It’s the least worst option. Shutdowns are terribly harmful to real people and the nation. But so’s fascism. Anywhere we have the choice to throw a punch or stand down, we no longer have the luxury of overthinking it.
aug 29, 2025, 3:30 pm • 1 0 • view
I said it would be last time and I'm sticking to it
aug 29, 2025, 2:41 pm • 75 0 • view
under what conditions would you be happy lifting it, assuming that the caucus holds no matter what and Rs can’t get their majorities together?
aug 29, 2025, 2:43 pm • 33 0 • view
Trump’s resignation.
aug 29, 2025, 2:48 pm • 2 0 • view
it's a fair question and I think my answer is: it depends. you have to actively work to make it politically benefit you, which is a risk, and if the risk fails, you should probably bail on it. but if it succeeds, you keep it running (or not running, in this case)
aug 29, 2025, 2:45 pm • 51 0 • view
That's about where I am on it.
aug 29, 2025, 3:25 pm • 1 0 • view
I think the thing that most has me doubting the wisdom of this is that I now have several more months of seeing Jeffries and Schumer do the rounds as the leaders of the party and am not sure they could actually make this work for them.
aug 29, 2025, 2:47 pm • 16 0 • view
like if they put their most talented public communicators on it and had them shaping the message and doing the press hits, yeah, I think it could work. but idk that they'd do that
aug 29, 2025, 2:48 pm • 14 0 • view
If you make a shutdown about "kitchen table issues" instead of grand moral and constitutional principles you will lose. Jeffries and Schumer simply do not have it in their DNA or resume to do grand moral principles. Which means they eventually fold, leaving us worse off than we are now.
aug 29, 2025, 2:54 pm • 7 0 • view
like the major issue I see that we are absolutely not going to get legislatively, and probably cannot even theoretically get legislatively because it’s already law, is impoundment prevention.
aug 29, 2025, 2:48 pm • 69 2 • view
Yeah. Hard to make a law banning crime! The deal is to not elect criminals! But here we are.
aug 29, 2025, 3:11 pm • 9 1 • view
so if the line in the sand is that we need impoundment prevention then we’re just saying “no D votes for anything” and maybe that’s fine
aug 29, 2025, 2:49 pm • 84 3 • view
no D votes for anything seems utterly fine because these people are morons, and letting it all fail completely seems better. it is their duty to stop these people even if it entails unleashing misery on the American public, because the cost of letting them continue to run the government is worse.
aug 29, 2025, 3:32 pm • 7 0 • view
I guess we can get genuine impoundment prevention only after we get a new Supreme Court.
aug 29, 2025, 7:18 pm • 0 0 • view
On the other hand, if the government doesn't shut down and everything goes to shit, it's obvious that it's entirely on Trump. If the shutdown happens at the same time everything else collapses, Dems might be in the hot seat.
aug 29, 2025, 3:14 pm • 7 0 • view
If the government avoids shut down with the help of Dem votes and everything goes to shit that is the same level of responsibility as forcing a shutdown and everything going to shit
aug 29, 2025, 3:30 pm • 3 0 • view
How, exactly? This is assuming a shutdown would *prevent* things from going to shit.
aug 29, 2025, 3:31 pm • 4 1 • view
I personally don’t actually think a shutdown is effective at stopping anything, more of just a signaling to the Base that they’re on board the “fight” train. You can’t say that out loud of course.
aug 29, 2025, 3:33 pm • 5 2 • view
One of the unnoticed stories of this presidency is the rise in black unemployment. Im not blaming anyone for not noticing before, but to hear people blithely discussing this without acknowledging the potential for pain in federal employee ( a reliable if small group of Dems) families.
aug 29, 2025, 7:36 pm • 0 0 • view
THE BASE is black, especially black women We are overrepresented in government employment. In a shutdown, the Antideficit Act gives the president broad powers to fire people & shut down departments. All of the employee & union lawsuits filed against Trump would be dismissed. Fed employees are Dems.
aug 29, 2025, 5:04 pm • 1 0 • view
Right, like, that's another thing I don't really see people discussing. If we want to have the fight, broadly, we can have it, but shutdown only serves to signal to *other people* "it's time to do the thing".
aug 29, 2025, 3:36 pm • 4 0 • view
Like the only things I can think of that you should be willing to walk away without impoundment prevention would be stuff way out there like Hegseth and RFK replacements that get picked by the Dems
aug 29, 2025, 3:09 pm • 4 0 • view
It’s the only smart position at this point.
aug 29, 2025, 2:52 pm • 34 0 • view
Right? What’s the point of cutting a deal they can immediately defect from after getting the benefits.
aug 29, 2025, 2:58 pm • 31 0 • view
This is correct
aug 29, 2025, 4:11 pm • 0 0 • view
"No D votes for anything" is the massively overdeternined correct position right now. The fact that any concessions Ds secure might be ignored by the admin with SCOTUS's support isn't the only reason but it's a very good one.
aug 29, 2025, 3:46 pm • 2 0 • view
Why not demand a bill that gets rid of the "loophole" providing 45 days? But maybe you are saying that it's not a legitimate loophole for pocket rescissions? Anyway if Patty Murray is leading the messaging Ds might win plurality approval for NO votes but I am less confident Schumer is persuasive
aug 29, 2025, 3:46 pm • 1 0 • view
If Schumer got a literal negative reinforcement every time he uttered a Greek or Latinate word I might change my view
aug 29, 2025, 3:47 pm • 0 0 • view
They have to get rid of Kennedy and everyone he appointed and replace them with actual doctors who aren't quacks. Restore Medicaid funding Close the concentration camps and revoke additional ICE funding
aug 29, 2025, 5:18 pm • 1 0 • view
has to be a really high price payable immediately -- promises not acceptable. fire rfk jr, grant kilmar abrego garcia citizenship, and release the full epstein files, that kind of thing. the budget/CR is purely a leverage point, not a legislative exercise, and the Ds need to treat it that way
aug 29, 2025, 5:04 pm • 1 0 • view
As long as recessions are in play, no circumstances
aug 29, 2025, 4:10 pm • 0 0 • view
To chime in: lifts all his tariffs, fires Vought, RFK, and DOGE, that would be enough good faith to help him avoid a shutdown
aug 29, 2025, 6:33 pm • 0 0 • view
whichever option happens people are going to be fucking pissed so let's get it over with
aug 29, 2025, 3:08 pm • 1 0 • view
the fact that the federal courts, aka the one part of government slapping trump back, gets hobbled and hindered makes me say "no" it's not like it's gonna lead to the bad stuff stopping, he's just going to force the national guard and ice to patrol washington DC unpaid
aug 29, 2025, 3:10 pm • 2 0 • view
It’s good
aug 29, 2025, 4:26 pm • 1 0 • view
with a discrete set of, like, 3 popular asks (stop illegal impoundments of research funding etc, troops out of DC, reverse some firings) sure. the march cave by schumer was predicated on false hope that scotus would rein him in. he was wrong & needs acknowledge that forcing it is the only way.
aug 29, 2025, 3:39 pm • 5 0 • view
do i have confidence in this leadership to effectively pull that off? not remotely
aug 29, 2025, 3:40 pm • 4 0 • view
I would say it's a good to show how inept Republicans are. However, I really don't trust Democrats to be able to message that successfully. They're more likely to somehow get blamed for the shutdown despite not being in power and then immediately capitulate and vote for more fascism
aug 29, 2025, 3:56 pm • 0 0 • view
Doesn’t matter. Trump could say something like “I own the shutdown” and the media would fawn over it still.
aug 29, 2025, 4:36 pm • 0 0 • view
Oh wait…
aug 29, 2025, 4:36 pm • 0 0 • view
depends
aug 29, 2025, 4:06 pm • 2 0 • view
The one true take is simple: Republicans are bad and you should hate them fat more than you do.
aug 29, 2025, 3:48 pm • 0 0 • view
Far*
aug 29, 2025, 3:49 pm • 0 0 • view
Generally speaking no, in this context, possibly justifiable?
aug 29, 2025, 3:06 pm • 0 0 • view
Federal employee here: GOOD
aug 29, 2025, 4:59 pm • 1 0 • view
(stipulating that of course Republicans are welcome to attempt to avert a shutdown on a party-line vote)
aug 29, 2025, 5:15 pm • 1 0 • view
Likely gets Trump's OMB to rule that government shutdowns don't actually exist and that may be a benefit long run idk
aug 29, 2025, 2:43 pm • 18 0 • view
It's stove time. Dems just need to let the GOP screw themselves. Voters need to see what they allowed to happen. It’s going to suck for the country.
aug 29, 2025, 3:07 pm • 2 0 • view
Very very bad, but sometimes might need to happen anyway. That was my take before this administration as well.
aug 29, 2025, 11:05 pm • 1 0 • view
No, shut down.....they just got back.
aug 29, 2025, 9:58 pm • 0 0 • view
At this point, yes. I also think it's actually feasible this time. I think last time people were way overestimating the tolerance for a weeks long shutdown.
aug 29, 2025, 2:47 pm • 11 0 • view
Specifically I think Dems in fed/contractor heavy districts will have less pressure to cave.
aug 29, 2025, 2:48 pm • 7 0 • view
Shutting down ICE is an unequivocal good.
aug 29, 2025, 4:29 pm • 1 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 2:44 pm • 9 0 • view
Which isn't to say it's a good thing. But it's certainly the least bad thing.
aug 29, 2025, 2:44 pm • 9 0 • view
No it's not. A govt shutdown basically shutsdown SNAP/WIC benefits delivery. SNAP cuts as per the BIG BULLSHYTE BILL won't really go into effect till 2026.
aug 29, 2025, 4:17 pm • 0 0 • view
A lot of the cuts are having effects now. Rural hospitals are already closing down due to how little resources they have, the official cut in 27 be damned. The sad part is that the shutdown would likely kill their majority 26 on, so that's a small bonus. It's bad bad overall.
aug 29, 2025, 8:10 pm • 0 0 • view
Best of bad options
aug 29, 2025, 3:01 pm • 1 0 • view
I think the trouble for Schumer is that he's not really negotiating with Congressional R's, but with Trump, who won't keep his word, probably won't negotiate in the first place, and its unclear if he would feel political heat from shutting the government down to stop him from impoundment.
aug 29, 2025, 5:45 pm • 0 0 • view
This shit should have ended in the courts- it's clearly illegal- but Roberts and Co. decided they liked what Trump was doing.
aug 29, 2025, 5:45 pm • 0 0 • view
If they shut it down why should any individual pay taxes? Why should taxpayers continue to line the pockets of the wealthy while we lose healthcare? Why should we pay for the bloated miliary budget that trump uses to terrorize blue cities while Americans are NOT SAFER and our rediness is at risk?
aug 29, 2025, 2:52 pm • 3 1 • view
It's usually bad, but the federal government does a lot fewer good things than it used to, so it's less bad every day. Should Democrats vote to prevent a shutdown if it looks like Republicans can't handle the basic nuts and bolts of governing? Absolutely not.
aug 29, 2025, 4:12 pm • 1 0 • view
Yes good thank you
aug 29, 2025, 3:07 pm • 13 1 • view
Right now it's better than the alternative.
aug 29, 2025, 3:08 pm • 6 0 • view
Trump and the Republicans control everything so shut it down and keep it shut.
aug 29, 2025, 5:19 pm • 0 0 • view
Rolling walkouts like the CDC yesterday? Not just federal employees, but other government and business people. Not non-union shift workers. Most (not all!) people calling for a mass g*ner*l str*k* in their bios turned their hobby into a part time gig. I had to mute the term.
aug 29, 2025, 4:01 pm • 0 0 • view
If appropriately focused around strong messaging (important) and some kind of attainable win or ask (sadly less important) I’d support it. GOP holds all the cards in every branch. Can we communicate that? Can we make them own it?
aug 29, 2025, 6:53 pm • 0 0 • view
📌
aug 29, 2025, 4:36 pm • 0 0 • view
If leveraged… no more masks and required due process and or no military deployment in the USA … and restore SNAP
aug 29, 2025, 4:33 pm • 0 0 • view
It's only good if you extract concessions and affirmatively manage to stop impoundment, otherwise nah. You got a make the shutdown about those issues now though, even really a month ago, Chuck fucked the chicken this spring by not rhetorically setting the goalposts, got rolled.
aug 29, 2025, 4:26 pm • 0 0 • view
And this point, yes. And I would sit on it for months. Through Christmas at least.
aug 29, 2025, 2:47 pm • 1 0 • view
I am an accelerationist for the end of Trumpism So yes.
aug 29, 2025, 2:44 pm • 6 1 • view
I think affirmative good. GOP has the majority and will take the blame. Historically they take the blame even with a Dem in the White House. There’s no way they don’t take the blame when they control Congress and the WH. Especially with everyone pissed at Trump.
aug 30, 2025, 12:17 am • 1 0 • view
Oh, geez. Is another government shut down looming? I hate this. I'm a no. In general: A government shut down because the government can't get their sh*t together is almost assuredly a very bad thing. But a government shut down *by the people* in protest to bad governance might be a good thing.
aug 29, 2025, 4:39 pm • 1 0 • view
I'm going to listen to the technician who knows the the timing, the risks, benefits and drawbacks better than anyone, and that's @schumer.senate.gov . If Sen. Schumer says a shutdown is a go, he has pretty good GD reason and it doesn't have anything to do with who gets blamed. The Rs may be trapped.
aug 29, 2025, 3:48 pm • 0 0 • view
Given the executive is filled to the brim with malevolent ghouls them getting sidelined or having a to work without pay would be for the best.
aug 29, 2025, 3:58 pm • 0 0 • view
My take is: it depends.
aug 29, 2025, 4:40 pm • 2 0 • view
Yes
aug 29, 2025, 3:27 pm • 0 0 • view
Can't have a revolution without having a revolution
aug 29, 2025, 3:10 pm • 0 0 • view
Yes unless all funds appropriated by Congress (e.g. NIH) are expended by end of fiscal year. September 30
aug 29, 2025, 3:17 pm • 1 0 • view
Genuine question: how much experience do you have with government contracts and PALT dates?
aug 29, 2025, 3:39 pm • 0 0 • view
NIH has had billions held back. That i understand
aug 29, 2025, 6:01 pm • 0 0 • view
It's better now than it would have been in March because people are already mad at the Trump government
aug 29, 2025, 3:06 pm • 116 0 • view
Absolutely. You wouldn't say he's on the ropes now exactly but he's gotten knocked back a bit. There's plenty of room to stick it to him a bit. More than there was back then, certainly!
aug 29, 2025, 3:07 pm • 41 0 • view
If Vance feels comfortable openly musing about how much Presidential prep he's had in the last 200 days (a half dozen vacations notwithstanding) then Trump may be more on the ropes than commonly recognized.
aug 29, 2025, 3:49 pm • 45 0 • view
Ha yeah. He was pretty wild for that ngl. No idea what's going through his head.
aug 29, 2025, 3:50 pm • 25 0 • view
"Trump dies or leaves in disgrace and President Vance is at the helm for 2026-28" is........ definitely not the worst of the paths before us
aug 29, 2025, 3:52 pm • 20 0 • view
Oh absolutely not the worst! I'd say "lower ceiling" in that President Vance mabye does less further damage to the GOP brand than President Trump would have during the same two years. But "higher floor" in that "global thermonuclear war" immediately becomes way less likely lol.
aug 29, 2025, 3:54 pm • 21 0 • view
It also all but guarantees a vicious succession crisis within the GOP.
aug 29, 2025, 3:54 pm • 5 0 • view
Have we considered that this could be very, very funny? www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukJ5...
aug 29, 2025, 4:00 pm • 6 0 • view
Oh it's IMPOSSIBLE to live through this era without thinking of this five times a day. But yes. Our version would be even more grotesque. You just hope we get the chace to laugh at it sooner than "many decades later".
aug 29, 2025, 4:02 pm • 6 0 • view
heh yeah and that's where you get a lot of the REAL fun scenarios and also the ball-freezingly terrifying ones. I mean, this website would be having the time of its life during the Year of Four Presidents or whatever but there could be some downsides lol.
aug 29, 2025, 3:58 pm • 7 0 • view
Stephen Miller, proclaimed president by the Danube Legions, skirmishes with forces of Kirsti Noem, supported by the Praetorian Guard
aug 29, 2025, 4:16 pm • 4 0 • view
Absolutely NONE of these clowns would remember that the legions are KIND of expecting a donative at this juncture and there might be some misunderstandings if that doesn't materialize. (Norms! Norms matter!)
aug 29, 2025, 4:19 pm • 6 0 • view
And nobody likes Vance anyway so I don't think he really SALVAGES the GOP brand during that time. And he'll be living (as will we!) with whatever economic Trump Chaos currently looms.
aug 29, 2025, 3:55 pm • 26 0 • view
I'd go a step farther and say that not only does nobody like Vance, I doubt anyone fears him (Thiel's purse notwithstanding) and you don't see other Republicans rolling over for him because they don't want to be primaried.
aug 29, 2025, 4:09 pm • 23 0 • view
Indeed, I think Vance's ascension makes space for a succession crisis in the GOP, and I don't think there's an obvious heir apparent.
aug 29, 2025, 4:11 pm • 23 0 • view
I mean, it’s Don jr since Ivanka bowed out
aug 29, 2025, 4:15 pm • 1 0 • view
No there really isn't, is there? And there are a TON of folks who no doubt believe they ARE that heir apparent. Which is a recipe for some wildly entertaining stuff! But hopefully not the SCARY kind of "entertaining".
aug 29, 2025, 4:12 pm • 11 0 • view
it would also be very effective to show that the government (the parts that are helpful to you) is shut down but sections like ICE are still getting paid/bonuses/etc. build that resentment.
aug 29, 2025, 4:03 pm • 3 0 • view
It's bad in the same way being cut open is bad. Normally, very bad! Sometimes bad but necessary to deal with something even worse. But if you get to the point where it's the preferred option, things are already quite bad indeed.
aug 29, 2025, 3:28 pm • 2 0 • view
Its good
aug 29, 2025, 4:09 pm • 0 0 • view
It'll be bad, but a lesser bad than the government activity it holds back
aug 29, 2025, 3:37 pm • 1 0 • view
(the bar for being less bad is very much underground at this point)
aug 29, 2025, 3:40 pm • 1 0 • view
Incredibly painful for people who probably can't take the hit right now, but... maybe effective in the service of strategic goals? It sucks to think of people getting thrown into the line of fire against their will, but if it's gonna happen anyway maybe we can make it worth it? Gross either way
aug 29, 2025, 7:24 pm • 1 0 • view
Bad for the country, fine as legislative strategy
aug 29, 2025, 3:04 pm • 165 0 • view
At some point dems will have to become political first movers rather than reflex only. Gotta fight with the weapons available
aug 29, 2025, 5:11 pm • 0 0 • view
Bad for the country as in good for the country or bad for the country as in bad for the country?
aug 29, 2025, 3:05 pm • 6 0 • view
Yes
aug 29, 2025, 3:05 pm • 3 0 • view
I think people will suffer and productivity will be reduced for no real reason so like, bad.
aug 29, 2025, 3:06 pm • 13 0 • view
The counter to that is a legislative strategy that puts all of the blame for things going to shit in Trump's lap rather than "if Dems didn't shut down Congress, things would be fine".
aug 29, 2025, 3:15 pm • 24 0 • view
I think most people don’t understand who is responsible for what in government. The president will get the blame.
aug 29, 2025, 3:42 pm • 1 0 • view
The problem with this strategy (which I largely agree with on the merits) is that it would require Democratic messaging to "get out." And this isn't a complaint about messaging. I simply do not trust the media not to blame Democrats while continuing to fluff Donald Trump.
aug 29, 2025, 3:17 pm • 7 0 • view
Which strategy? If the government is funded and everything still goes to shit, Dems don't need to say anything, Trump has been taking credit himself this whole time.
aug 29, 2025, 3:19 pm • 7 0 • view
I meant if Dems "allow" the government to shut down (I'm trying to choose my words carefully here, because to be clear I do not think that if the government shuts down it is the Democrats' fault nor should they be blamed - I simply believe they WILL be blamed, regardless).
aug 29, 2025, 3:21 pm • 8 0 • view
Ah yes, then I'm in agreement.
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 3 0 • view
This is a problem regardless of the chosen strategy. The media will blame Ds for a shutdown, and will aim to shield Trump from the consequences of his actions. This is baked into the equation. The question is whether Rs care enough about avoiding a shutdown that they will make useful concessions.
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 4 0 • view
Or if there even *can* be useful concessions when Trump can simply ignore anything he wants.
aug 29, 2025, 3:25 pm • 4 0 • view
This is a key question. With Trump's behavior and then the impoundments Rs have destroyed most of their credibility in a negotiation. It would have to be something that congressional Rs would be willing to impose on the executive via clear legislation, e.g. restoring de minimis exemptions.
aug 29, 2025, 3:33 pm • 1 0 • view
Clear legislation like...The Impoundment Control Act of 1974?
aug 29, 2025, 3:35 pm • 2 0 • view
I meant to say "rescissions" above, i.e. congressional R clawbacks last time. But yes, this goes back to lack of R credibility. Do Ds give them one more chance if they pinky-swear to hold the line on something Ds want? I'd say yes, given the implications of a shutdown.
aug 29, 2025, 4:41 pm • 1 0 • view
I'm not sure Republicans have paid an electoral price for engaging in similar tactics, I could see a pathway where maximal resistance aids Democrats as easily as what you're describing, and besides, whatever pain is coming is a year off at best
aug 29, 2025, 3:16 pm • 30 0 • view
I think they definitely took hits, going back to the Gingrich era, but that’s because “shutting down the government” is aligned with the public perception of the GOP as the party that hates government. Jeffries’ letter is basically setting the stage to use that perception against the GOP again.
aug 29, 2025, 3:21 pm • 3 0 • view
I think de minimus removal is going to cause immediate and short-term pain that will be felt right around the time the government shuts down. As for the electoral price, Dems keep winning elections by record-breaking margins, I think people are rightly blaming Republicans for how bad things are!
aug 29, 2025, 3:18 pm • 30 4 • view
We are all guessing. And I don't mean that pejoratively there's lots of credible frameworks for how the public might respond to this or that, but the thing is we have to accept the demonstrated empirical fact that enough of the public has lost their minds that we have no real idea what works.
aug 29, 2025, 3:39 pm • 4 0 • view
I want the government shut down because it is actively harming people, and it is doing it not just in very public ways (that will likely continue during a shutdown), but also by having screaming monkeys yank the wiring out of fifty years of administrative process, where effects come years later.
aug 29, 2025, 3:39 pm • 4 0 • view
Remember when Obama had to obliterate the MMS because it was hopelessly packed with oil cronies? That warpath is literally everything right now. The USDA. The FDA. The FCC. The CDC. The NIH. Limiting the speed at which this progresses makes fixing it much less impossible.
aug 29, 2025, 3:39 pm • 4 1 • view
Well you say "limiting the spread", but it would in fact accelerate the collapse. Which, yeah, fair.
aug 29, 2025, 3:42 pm • 1 0 • view
I can't speak for what's the right thing to do but if I was in Congress I would have a list of people who should resign immediately and you're not moving me to yes without a bunch of those names getting scratched off.
aug 29, 2025, 3:47 pm • 1 0 • view
Right, but how would Congress force people to resign when Trump claims he's the only one who can do so?
aug 29, 2025, 3:49 pm • 1 0 • view
All the way from where we came Built a mansion in a day Distant lightning, thunder claps Watched our neighbor's house collapse Looked the other way And then the storm was overhead All the oceans boiled and rivers bled We auctioned off our memories In the absence of a breeze Scatter what remains
aug 29, 2025, 4:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Which is to say, in prose, we don't solve problems until they become emergencies. It's very easy to buy into accelerationist logic under such circumstances and I am succumbing to it here. Let's demonstrate how bad the Republicans are at governing.
aug 29, 2025, 4:25 pm • 1 0 • view
I can't tell the difference between "People are blaming Republicans" and "Democrats have the educated base who turn out in special- and off-year-elections" right now. Both things make sense.
aug 29, 2025, 11:50 pm • 2 0 • view
Rs definitely paid an electoral price in the past for being the party of government shutdowns. They were willing to pay that price in order to achieve their objectives.
aug 29, 2025, 3:20 pm • 1 0 • view
R’s generally have caused shutdowns and took blame for them *while in the majority* in one or both chambers Now we’re supposing Dems will be saddled with blame while in the minority
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Most Americans don't understand who has power/majorities where and how it matters. What matters is how the media will frame it. And I think we know how they will frame it.
aug 29, 2025, 3:34 pm • 1 0 • view
“Dems will be blamed and suffer electorally if there’s a government shutdown during Republican control of all branches of government” is plausible, and in itself indicts both the media environment & Dems’ navigation of said environment
aug 29, 2025, 3:20 pm • 9 0 • view
I don't know if it's possible to navigate an environment staffed nearly entirely by paid operatives of fascists. That's like saying you're just not playing the Twitter game hard enough, you can *totally* out-message the Nazi algorithm.
aug 29, 2025, 3:21 pm • 4 0 • view
Dems repeating "what party controls the federal government? who's the president right now? Who was president at the height of COVID?" over and over might not be the worst media strategy.
aug 29, 2025, 3:34 pm • 1 0 • view
To be clear I don't think that's good government, I think there's deadweight loss in doing that but I also don't know why Democrats should just approve the Trump budget and its consequences when they don't have to and when they don't run the government
aug 29, 2025, 3:17 pm • 34 0 • view
Ds should really make the bill contingent on previously approved funding being released. Trump releases all funding previously allocated, government becomes funded.
aug 29, 2025, 3:24 pm • 8 0 • view
Also approvals. The government said a wind farm was ok to build? Government doesn't become funded until they're approved.
aug 29, 2025, 3:30 pm • 5 0 • view
And verification is key. We know Trump will break any deal he can. So it has to be past the point of breakability
aug 29, 2025, 3:35 pm • 4 0 • view
Yup, and this is something that in theory can be bipartisan! He defunded R states too.
aug 29, 2025, 3:37 pm • 2 0 • view
This is where I landed. Trump clawed back funding for USAID & PBS after they helped pass the last CR. Unless they get Republicans on board with the idea that "Yes, Congress controls the budget", this is just asking to be embarrassed.
aug 29, 2025, 4:20 pm • 3 0 • view
I agree, and maybe the solution here is a simple framing of "if Republicans want to fund the government, they can do it themselves" just like last time.
aug 29, 2025, 3:20 pm • 3 0 • view
they shouldn’t, q is what the price is
aug 29, 2025, 3:18 pm • 19 0 • view
If Dems don't sign on, then the GOP might eliminate the filibuster, which would be a good thing IMHO.
aug 29, 2025, 3:19 pm • 5 0 • view
Why would they need to eliminate the filibuster? The problem they have here is not having a simple majority to pass the bill.
aug 29, 2025, 3:29 pm • 2 0 • view
As I understand it, any bill that the GOP puts forward can be filibustered, in which case they'd need 7 Dems to join with them to pass it. So Dems can extract a price if they want to--or, if a deal can't be reached, the GOP can eliminate the filibuster with 50 votes.
aug 29, 2025, 3:34 pm • 1 0 • view
That would be the dynamic in a well-functioning legislature, but Dems don’t need to filibuster if Republicans don’t have the votes to pass the bill in the first place.
aug 29, 2025, 3:39 pm • 1 0 • view
I feel like if all they needed to muster was 50+1 and 218 in the House, the GOP could pass a party-line spending bill--but maybe I'm wrong, I'm open to correction.
aug 29, 2025, 3:40 pm • 1 0 • view
Why would it be a good thing, it's the only thing preventing some really horrible shit from happening.
aug 29, 2025, 3:20 pm • 2 0 • view
Such as? I can't think of a lot of things that the filibuster has actually prevented, relative to the amount of terrible shit that's already gone down--most of what they want to do that they haven't already done is held back by actual political fear, not the filibuster.
aug 29, 2025, 3:26 pm • 0 0 • view
The ban on trans athletes for one? Or the sanctions against the ICC?
aug 29, 2025, 3:29 pm • 1 0 • view
If they really wanted to do something, they're not exactly hung up on the need for legislative approval.
aug 29, 2025, 3:26 pm • 0 0 • view
Right, what do we want is a more interesting question, impoundment protections, maybe restore this or that funding. Fundamentally I'm ambivalent, I just want to see Trump and Johnson sweat it out
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 19 0 • view
I am just very skeptical that we can get impoundment protections that are better than the Impoundment Control Act
aug 29, 2025, 3:23 pm • 24 2 • view
Not with these courts. Because the basic issue is a classic Roberts Special - he knows it’s against the law, but he’s making it impossible for you to enforce the law. The problem isn’t the law.
aug 29, 2025, 3:27 pm • 5 0 • view
I am skeptical that any deal would be honored. why negotiate with someone like that?
aug 29, 2025, 3:28 pm • 8 0 • view
or this - he's blackmailing states with funds due to them - and you're going to play nice with this man and his minions (who shouldn't be minions, they're supposed to be a separate, equal branch of the government)
aug 29, 2025, 3:47 pm • 4 1 • view
Not co-equal (at least on paper). The Legislature is Article I and ostensibly has the power and authority to unilaterally remove a President or Supreme Court Justices, whereas neither the Executive nor the Judiciary have the power to unilaterally remove even a single member of Congress.
aug 29, 2025, 4:29 pm • 4 1 • view
Right, like, this is where I land. What asks would Dems seek that Trump couldn't just ignore. ...impeachment?
aug 29, 2025, 3:26 pm • 3 0 • view
Yeah probably better to go for some funding item they slashed and call that a W
aug 29, 2025, 3:25 pm • 7 0 • view
Dang, I feel like maybe I got the old man disease where I can't tell when people are being sarcastic anymore.
aug 29, 2025, 3:27 pm • 3 0 • view
...that Trump would then just pocket rescission out of existence. www.politico.com/news/2025/08...
aug 29, 2025, 3:27 pm • 5 0 • view
I mean if we're going to start here then talking about strategy at all is pointless
aug 29, 2025, 3:28 pm • 6 0 • view
Reining in RFK and reversing Medicaid cuts somewhat would be a solid W in this environment. But I am loathe to give them votes on reversing bad shit they did when Trump will probably just ignore what Congress says anyway.
aug 29, 2025, 3:28 pm • 0 0 • view
Demand Vought be fired? Isn’t he the one most committed to impoundment? Seems like a W analogous to how getting Miller out would be
aug 29, 2025, 3:35 pm • 0 0 • view
Honestly, I think the key will be an achievable get that they can demand from the admin that is both grossly unpopular to not do or to continue doing (such as the DC takeover) and something that Trump feels he can give up if he needs to. Going after the attempted Fed firings might be good.
aug 29, 2025, 4:09 pm • 1 0 • view
The Fed one I think would be the best, because he knows it's a sensitive matter, and if he renegs, the markets will react in a way that causes him even more pain.
aug 29, 2025, 4:11 pm • 1 0 • view
If the shutdown closes the federal court system that's a real problem.
aug 29, 2025, 3:23 pm • 1 0 • view
On the, um, bright side, the harm of a shutdown is much less now that we don’t have a federal government any more except for DHS goons. What’s it gonna do, stall the CDC, cripple the weather service, delay disbursement of international aid? Strip the parks bare of upkeep staff?
aug 29, 2025, 3:43 pm • 5 1 • view
Yes and any budget or CR that requires Dem votes to pass is “bipartisan” which is an admittedly minor detriment to making the case for throwing the bums out. Jeffries should hold out for real value, and the “New Dem” squishes should toe the line.
aug 29, 2025, 3:31 pm • 1 0 • view
Republicans never pay a price for destroying the government because keeping the government running is the Democrat's job.
aug 29, 2025, 4:27 pm • 2 0 • view
I understand if Democrats for constituent service reasons break from that strategy, but I also wouldn't blame Democrats for doing what Republicans so often do in this situation and be a huge pain in the ass
aug 29, 2025, 3:05 pm • 114 0 • view
Im for being huge pains in the ass to the GOP. This is their red wagon, let them pull it.
aug 29, 2025, 4:43 pm • 17 0 • view
Part of my reasoning is, these fools won't stop voting for them until they actually suffer at their hands. And the gop knows this and delays the cuts in the budget until after midterms, etc. Just like the tax breaks are permanent for their wealthy, but phase out years later.
aug 29, 2025, 4:46 pm • 15 0 • view
I say let the beatings begin now. See how loyal their followers stay.
aug 29, 2025, 4:48 pm • 10 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 6:07 pm • 7 0 • view
I lol'd
aug 29, 2025, 11:31 pm • 6 0 • view
Bear in mind that it's what Trump’s handlers want. Not just Elon: www.wired.com/story/elon-m...
sep 1, 2025, 7:28 pm • 0 0 • view
Also if there’s anything I learned from March it’s that we shouldn’t assume we know how everyone’s going to vote. Not only did Van Hollen vote against Schumer’s plan, so did Alsobrooks…before her successor had even been sworn in to finish her term as Executive of one of the biggest federal employer
aug 29, 2025, 5:33 pm • 0 0 • view
…counties (Actually technically before said successor had even been fully elected since the special general election wasn’t until June, it’s just that the general doesn’t really matter in Prince George’s
aug 29, 2025, 5:34 pm • 1 0 • view
Bad as in worse than the alternative? Because I’m skeptical there, or think the difference between them is small enough to take the gamble that the shutdown leverage play forces some kind of change.
aug 29, 2025, 3:10 pm • 3 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 2:41 pm • 2 0 • view
Idk if it's good but it's probably necessary and better than caving, both as a matter of Congressional power and prerogative and a deminstration the stove is hot.
aug 29, 2025, 3:36 pm • 0 0 • view
Even as someone far more directly affected than most of the people who are commenting I don't know the answer to that question. I don't think it's possible to know a right answer.
aug 29, 2025, 3:28 pm • 3 0 • view
They’ll use it as an excuse to not do good things while shifting even more resources to the bad things, which they’ll do whether the government is shutdown or not.
aug 29, 2025, 6:32 pm • 0 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 4:05 pm • 0 0 • view
It helps that this shutdown would be happening as tariffs/revoking of De Minimis start absolutely hammering Americans and the message can be "No funding until the illegal tariffs that are increasing your prices are revoked."
aug 29, 2025, 3:11 pm • 3 0 • view
This would be a good one to put on the table. Cult leader aside, most elected Rs don't actually like the tariff clownshow.
aug 29, 2025, 3:27 pm • 1 0 • view
honest question: would anyone notice a partial degradation of federal government services beyond the existing degradation? we already don't get international mail, medicaid is using AI to deny claims, the park service is gutted, and trade policy is non-existent. what could get worse?
aug 29, 2025, 3:11 pm • 2 0 • view
In a perfect world, perfectly played, it could be a good. In this world, very probably it would be a disaster.
aug 29, 2025, 3:40 pm • 1 0 • view
In and of itself it's bad, if it produces responsible governance that's a good outcome.
aug 30, 2025, 1:09 am • 1 0 • view
100% pro-shutdown
aug 29, 2025, 3:53 pm • 2 1 • view
The Dems can’t shut down anything, they don’t have the votes. So the question is just what are they being offered to cooperate with the fash.
aug 29, 2025, 3:40 pm • 0 0 • view
yes, yes and yes Do not cede your power Congress.
aug 29, 2025, 7:39 pm • 1 0 • view
Yes it is. It isn't like anything that would be getting done is a net good for Americans right now, and things are going to get worse either way. Dems aren't in control, so they have the opportunity to constantly shout 'this is what they do when they control everything' and focus eyes on GOP shit.
aug 29, 2025, 4:08 pm • 1 0 • view
bsky.app/profile/nona...
aug 29, 2025, 3:56 pm • 0 0 • view
I supported a shut down in March. I support one now. Let Trump and company own this problem.
aug 29, 2025, 3:28 pm • 1 0 • view
I don’t know and if you catch me having an opinion later please remind me that I am, in fact, an idiot
aug 29, 2025, 3:24 pm • 3 0 • view
I can't truly be objective but I generally think it can be a good thing.
aug 29, 2025, 11:54 pm • 1 0 • view
In what sense? That no government services is good actually or how the politics would play out?
aug 29, 2025, 8:57 pm • 1 0 • view
in the sense that we are happier with an outcome that includes a shutdown than with one that doesn’t, all else equal
aug 29, 2025, 8:58 pm • 2 0 • view
It’s good if Schumer and Jeffries can figure out how to talk about why they’re doing it in terms of all the active harm Trump is doing, instead of just “kitchen table issues”. So it’s probably bad.
aug 29, 2025, 2:45 pm • 3 0 • view
Shut it down.
aug 29, 2025, 7:28 pm • 1 0 • view
The courts are still functioning and the admin has lost way more cases than they've won. Also, a shutdown means people don't get paid. A shutdown imo is always a bad idea. Even worse now bc it gives donald free reign.
aug 29, 2025, 3:55 pm • 5 0 • view
I think we have to pick a line in the sand with this funding package and say no, no further than this.
aug 29, 2025, 2:45 pm • 14 0 • view
I agree, and realistically i think part of the line in the sand has to be making it enforceable and sacking xyz regime flunkies as a show of good faith
aug 29, 2025, 3:29 pm • 2 0 • view
I think we have a race between consolidation of power and public ire to see whether we get out of this without actual civil war, and a shutdown won't speed up consolidation but will speed up ire, so probably good despite how rough it will get. It will be bad either way.
aug 29, 2025, 6:17 pm • 35 0 • view
Good if we have defined goals that impact the regime’s center of gravity
aug 29, 2025, 3:30 pm • 2 0 • view
Bad for America so it must be done. Americans must be trained like Pavlovian dogs to understand that a Republican trifecta means chaos. Personal harm/experience is one of the few things Americans respond to.
aug 29, 2025, 6:30 pm • 0 0 • view
Shut it down
aug 29, 2025, 3:07 pm • 1 1 • view
Good isn't even on the table, but it is necessary. The President will only spend what he wants anyway, why should the opposition sign on to that?
aug 29, 2025, 3:55 pm • 1 0 • view
I don't know whether either strategy would be better, and I'm not going to pretend that I do.
aug 29, 2025, 5:04 pm • 0 0 • view
Only the stove can teach us
aug 29, 2025, 4:50 pm • 8 0 • view
I get that it’s a hostage situation but A) immediately folding isn’t the optimum strategy here, especially when in bad faith B) they’ve had another 6 months of purging and hiring loyalists so at this point their people also get to figure out how to pay rent in DC without a paycheck
aug 29, 2025, 5:11 pm • 7 0 • view
At least it’s a good chance to show the public what Dems priorities ARE. There will be a huge amount of coverage. Even if you lose. It’s the chance to lay down a marker of what’s important. The tactics will be hard. You can do the GOP trick of winning by losing. You posture, but no shut down.
aug 29, 2025, 5:13 pm • 3 0 • view
I kind of wonder if the GOP will be a bit less bloody minded about this after DOGE. They seem to have been disabused of the notion that all do these people are not necessary and it’s a positive good when they quit
aug 29, 2025, 5:16 pm • 4 0 • view
In a world of bad options it’s the least bad. Is that too wishy washy?
aug 29, 2025, 6:28 pm • 1 0 • view
Good. Democratic votes should only be provided in exchange for a meaningful concession(doesn’t particularly matter which, just the optics of a concession, but right now I’d say RFK resigning)
aug 29, 2025, 2:45 pm • 10 0 • view
If large & growing No Kings protest movement = good if things as they are (GOP + corporate media control narrative) = bad
aug 29, 2025, 3:16 pm • 0 0 • view
does the executive branch wield anymore power or options during in a nefarious way?
aug 29, 2025, 3:16 pm • 0 0 • view
yes, probably
aug 29, 2025, 3:17 pm • 3 0 • view
then I would say no. I think it's important for people to make the decision maker own the order he/she is making. e.g. what just happened at cdc
aug 29, 2025, 3:25 pm • 1 0 • view
What's the win condition or 'ask'? It was the issue the first time around and I'm open to it but I don't know the answer
aug 29, 2025, 2:56 pm • 9 0 • view
I think we should figure that out before we shut down, unless the WC is the shutdown itself
aug 29, 2025, 2:57 pm • 19 0 • view
At least one of the win conditions needs to be a DC funding fix. Whatever else you think about Schumer avoiding the shutdown last time...doing so without making the House do the DC funding fix first was unforgivable.
aug 29, 2025, 3:21 pm • 1 0 • view
If the win condition is a shutdown, we've already lost.
aug 29, 2025, 2:58 pm • 7 0 • view
We haven't already lost but we're down a lot and the clock is ticking. Sometimes you gotta crack out the *do not touch except in emergencies* playbook
aug 29, 2025, 3:10 pm • 0 0 • view
But it's not a score! We aren't "down," and there's no deficit to make up. One black swan event and everything could be reversed. I just don't think this is a helpful way to think about politics, especially as Trump's tariffs are set to really start biting.
aug 29, 2025, 3:18 pm • 1 0 • view
Oh, but there is People in this country have an expectation that things happen because of decisions we make. The fact that 3/4rs of politics is reactive, not active, is irrelevant Right now the broad opinion is that Trump is driving the country off a cliff and the Democrats aren't doing anything
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Now that last part isn't true either but that is also irrelevant. If you want to win elections, you have to be perceived as *leading*.
aug 29, 2025, 3:23 pm • 0 0 • view
I don't think that's true! Incumbents win the vast majority of elections. In most instances, and especially in waves, people lose elections, they don't win them.
aug 29, 2025, 3:26 pm • 1 0 • view
I think we might be having two different conversations and I haven't had my coffee yet
aug 29, 2025, 3:27 pm • 1 0 • view
Yeah, I think that it becomes more worth it to 'shut down' the government when more of it becomes actively hostile to Democratic party members. Right now, the balance is still probably skewed toward harming Dem aligned govies and contractors more than slowing regime goals. Is that fair?
aug 29, 2025, 3:02 pm • 7 0 • view
Is it an affirmative good to point a gun at another person and fire it?
aug 29, 2025, 3:21 pm • 0 0 • view
In general or in this particular case? In general the existence of government shutdowns speaks to horrendous state capacity; one White House counsel's opinion is not actually the constitution. In this particular case, no idea.
aug 29, 2025, 3:08 pm • 8 1 • view
Affirmative good though very damaging, because it provides the *opportunity* to throw potentially fatal blows in the midterms (Trump has no mechanisms to help the economy other than a dramatic about face on everything and he's already lost the information war on it)
aug 29, 2025, 6:31 pm • 0 0 • view
I’m going w/mostly pro. Standard caveats others have made re: deciding on messaging & conditions for ending it, but I think at this point it improves Dem base morale, puts GOP on notice—as w/Newsom redistricting—that Dems are done playing nice. And with all the chaos, firing & funding cuts already
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 0 0 • view
It’ll be less disruptive than it would have been 6 months ago & more likely GOP gets blamed for any additional disruptions.
aug 29, 2025, 3:22 pm • 0 0 • view
Uhhhhhhh
aug 29, 2025, 3:19 pm • 0 0 • view
aug 29, 2025, 3:19 pm • 0 0 • view
Evil government - shutdown good. Good government - shutdown evil.
aug 29, 2025, 3:19 pm • 0 0 • view
But if I did that it would be harder to play "wrong rock" later on.
aug 29, 2025, 4:26 pm • 5 0 • view
The people voted for chaos
aug 29, 2025, 2:44 pm • 1 0 • view
The administration has between now and the swearing in of the 2027 Congress to push through the hundreds of rulemakings. If Congress flips, then the Congressional Review Act can be a tool to stop things then. Future administrations would have less to "undo"
aug 29, 2025, 4:30 pm • 2 0 • view
In other words, a 2-month shutdown in say, late 2025, could mean the difference between president #48 being able to actually do their agenda as opposed to having to spend 3 years undoing everything
aug 29, 2025, 4:32 pm • 1 0 • view